Chris Bartocci giving a pretty good breakdown of the failures of the M14 and the kikery the Army Ordnance department took part in to make it accepted over the FAL. Also, an interesting thing he describes is General Moore claiming that the M16 was great for close-quarters combat, although all of the tacticool mallninjas out there would tell you that 20" is too long for you to oper8 properly in close quarters.
Battle Raifus
Christopher Phillips
Other urls found in this thread:
marstar.ca
twitter.com
Parker Jackson
Why aren't there any counter-balance battle rifles around? Imagine the possibilities of an AK-107 chambered in 7,62 nato. Makes me diamonds just thinking about it.
William Flores
Man, I really want to see someone argue that the M14 was still the better choice. Those are some of the most retarded people you can find, and most of the veterans that are actual veterans had never used it outside of training.
Opinions change with the time, but the M16 had a really compact and lightweight design for the era. It was certainly better than any mainline rifle the US had issued before, although the M2 Carbine was close.
Research and development is expensive, and the people who can afford it aren't creative enough to make something that actually works and would sell.
There's also no real purpose for it since battle rifles have been phased out of normal use.
Jacob Smith
Ruger made a mini-14 chambered in 308.
Grayson Lee
Counter-balance only balances out the recoil of the bolt carrier moving forward and backward, so in single shot the felt recoil is about the same as in a manually operated rifle of the same calibre and mass. Therefore you'd still have to apply other tricks from the book to make the felt recoil more manageable with a stronger cartridge. In full auto it's still less than in a rifle without this system, but that works so well with the AK because it fires a relatively light cartridge from a relatively heavy weapon. It would of course make full-auto more controllable with a rifle cartridge, but it's not a magic bullet that solves all of your problems. I'm personally a proponent of this autistic gas-floodgate system. Instead of counteracting the recoil of the bolt carrier you delay it, and now you don't have to add its weight to the rifle twice. Of course I'll still have to rack my brain to eventually make it sufficiently simple.
Juan Ross
A bunch of Western countries continue to use battle rifles. Long-range engagements require a heavy round, and that round needs to still pack enough penetration to go through concrete and brick walls.
The only negative thing about most battle rifles is their weight and recoil. Weight is easily fixed by using lighter materials. and recoil is defeated by making a proper counter-balance system similar to the stuff the slavs are doing.
Imagine the possibilities of a battle rifle so controllable that any retarded conscript can fire in full auto and hit man-sized targets 100 meters away. The increase of individual firepower would be orgasmic.
Sure the guns would be slightly more expensive than the mass-produced older types, but it would be fucking worth it.
Jeremiah Morales
But there's also the AK-109 which is chambered in 7.62x39. Granted it is smaller than 7,62x51 but still. but it does worry me that there isn't a single video of an AK-109 available. Is it because you're right and it actually sucks when you use a bigger or caliber, or they just didn't bother with the other variants and simply want to push for the AK-107 alone?
Robert Collins
Because counter balance came about long after battle rifles became obsolete. Neat idea though, it would suit a battle rifle better than an assault rifle.
Turkey and Greece don't count
Daniel Scott
t-there's also Belgium and Iceland!
Colton Harris
I don't care what the context is, you don't ever get to imply that Turks are Western.
Liam Edwards
I guess the real question is whether it's compact "enough" for use indoors. My gut says it can be but I haven't done tests.
On to battle raifus, though. The MemeDR finally came out last year, has anyone gotten the chance to fire one?
Jaxson Watson
So the MemeDR came out last year, anyone get a chance to fire one? It doesn't seem like there are too many battle rifle bullpups out there; lots of intermediate cartridge and a few precision rifles, but not battle rifles. Maybe because there's something implicitly Fudd about .30 caliber rifles and bullpups are anti-Fudd.
Kayden Murphy
My grandfather was pretty fond of his M14 in 'nam and his classified fun in neighboring laos and cambodia. Dunno if that counts for anything considering he knew of guys still using BAR's and Thompsons with drums. He bought that gun of the government in 64.
Sounds like you want a stoner 63 in x51.
Justin Fisher
Can you think of any particular reason that a heterosexual man wouldn't want that?
Nicholas Rodriguez
Guys that sell Stoner LMG have been designing it in .308 when i read about it some time ago.
Benjamin Perez
Somebody sells a 6.5 CM conversion kit that's apparently top notch.
I would love to build 6.5 cm ar-10 that uses A1 ar-15 furniture to have a laser gun that shoots so flat that you could basically do point and shoot with a rifle.
Colton Kelly
Aw yiss, retro AR-10s are the good shit. They also have the virtue of being nice and light like that Dutch variant, instead of the fat pigs most burger AR-10s are. but then can you expect differently from us?
Blake Scott
Having an adjustable gas system so you can tune your rifle to constant-recoil is a better idea. You can basically do that in AKs with KNS gas pistons now.
Jaxon Murphy
I believe that they were originally going to go with the equivalent of a 7mm rem mag with either the m1 garand or the m1917
Noah Moore
The typical mallninja considers anything with a barrel longer than 16" functionally equivalent to a three line musket, what's your point?
Chase Perez
Dont forget the weight limit of 1lb before they start calling it "cannon".
Wyatt Moore
I don't say that it sucks, all I say is that it's not enough. The FG-42 has at least three ways to reduce the recoil, it has an inline stock, a compensator, and a telescopic buttplate. Now I know that there is some kind of a controversy going on about Ian and co, but that's not related to their experiences with firearms. So watch vid related and think about other possibilities too.
Brody Green
That has to be amazingly loud.
David Lopez
Counter-balanced action is mostly pointless.
Isaac Watson
Pls. Even steel core Russian 7.62x54R penetrates only half of the brick and about 2-3 inches of concrete.
Zachary Ortiz
Post proof
Benjamin Jenkins
God I want one of those, I hope Ruger starts making them.
TFW it's never going to happen.
Wyatt Bennett
I am down with AR10, HK417 & modernized G3/PTR variant.
David Brooks
What are you smoking? At effective range of 300m a ball x39 goes through two cinder blocks and cracks a third. A x54R is between a .308 and .30-06 in terms of energy, there's no fucking way a single brick could ever stop it, unless it's a brick of steel.
Josiah Allen
If you're going to pay through the nose for a German piston AR, try the Sig 716. Same guy was the designer for both, and a few improvements made it into the latter.
Aaron Jones
I don't think he's talking about loose material you prop up at the range, user. A cinderblock on its own breaks if you drop it the wrong way.
Jack Thompson
Of course they couldn't, it's a Mini-14.
Adam Roberts
A x39 ball will go through a car and through an average house wall, mortared brick not drywall. A x51 goes through a house unless a bathtub or propane tank diverts it. A x54R would certainly be slightly above that. These are all ball ammo.
To say that x54R armor piercing won't go through a single brick is fucking insane, which is what this guy is saying.
Jacob Rodriguez
I wish HK or somebody were to produce the sl-6 and Sl-7 again at a more reasonable price that utilized standard mags.
Cameron Scott
I am unironically considering rejoining the army just so I can be together with her again.
Please talk me out of it.
Charles Foster
You get stuck with a G36 with a fucked firing pin and the QM doesn't want to be friends with you.
It would be nice but we all know that it gets fucked under sporting use and H&K being shitheads as usual.
Angel Kelly
Pic related will prevent you from defending your country from muslims and niggers. You will have all the means necessary to genocide the entire government but you won't do it because you're afraid of failure and nobody else in the army will assist you. Your own people will pay you to do nothing but stare motionless as the shitskins ruin your nation.
Jonathan Martin
FALs look like absolute shit unless they have wooden finish.
Angel King
Wooden furniture, optimistic anti air iron sights, casket magazine, and a full auto selection switch.
Jayden Morris
WRONG
Christopher Morris
The ruger scout rifle is the closes we got to battle rifles. My only complaint is that they didn't chamber them in a few calibers such as 300 win mag or 7mm rem mag.
Adam Jackson
The G36 is a nice gun. Only problem is the point where the sights attach to the receiver/barrel.
Cameron Jones
What did he mean this?
Austin Green
Maybe he thinks we're talking about rifles meant for battle. Or something like that. I don't know man, you find a better explanation.
Kevin Gray
Ww2/ww1 bolt action battle rifle.
Carson Turner
Sporting.
Idk about leafistan but getting around "sporting use" for burger sales would be easy enough to accomplish. Hk being tards is still a issue though.
Elijah Sullivan
Except no fucking army adopts the 716 and I require proof.
Can you just buy it in Germany? The semi-auto I mean.
Jayden Martin
That's not impressive, user. Just about anything can go through a car as long as it's not fired at the engine.
Depends on the brick and the distance.
Generally when you're laying down suppressing fire it's from few hundred meters away, and steel core x54r isn't known for astounding ballistic capability.
Henry Phillips
Then it'll come in with the single stack special snowflake magazine, also those things eject brass with the force of a hundred soccer moms falling from a plane.
Dylan Wright
What
Aren't battle rifles are any infantry rifle chambered in full-powered calibers,.30-03 and above?
John Thomas
What loadouts and load bearing gear do you guys use for your battle rifle mags?
Benjamin Sanchez
Yeah I already said steel bricks aren't going to be penetrated, no need to repeat it.
Jason James
Christopher Scott
Benjamin Lee
Luis Harris
So which one is it?
Blake Murphy
Yeah if you make your house walls out of eleven layers of brick it might also not penwtratw, thats true.
Ryan Morgan
If you need her back that badly, just buy a SAR M41.
James Smith
That's SIG USA shit made by (((Cohen)))
Charles Sanders
PLCE fits two SLR/FAL mags in each pouch fine.
Sage for doublepost
Brody Evans
Again maybe for Canadians, but the rifle would not necessarily need to be imported into the United States considering HK already has at least one production facility in the US that is specifically for producing weapons for the civilian market that can be expanded. Then of course such a firearm would be easy for a different US manufacturer to clone. These options would make the snowflake mags unnecessary for the rifle to be sold in most states.
Carter Clark
OD green looks good on anything
And tbh, I love the pebblegrain furniture on the SLR, even more than the wood.
Chase Wood
...
Leo Foster
So it can go through a brick lengthwise
Hunter Mitchell
Glad to see he's back
Aiden Foster
I’m wanting to build a battle raifu and debating between a CETME/G3/PTR91 and a basic bitch AR-10. Any recommendations on build kits for either? If the CETME, one with a receiver fully built including rifle.
Dominic Carter
FN-AL is sexy under any circumstances.
No exceptions.
Alexander Torres
...
Owen Edwards
Any news on when the Tavor 7 is meant to be out? At shotshow they kept saying that it was going to be released in April.
Cameron Morgan
Oh really?
Justin Wright
Considering that a discussion on flame throwers can devolve to shitposting about Katawa Shoujo and crispy waifus, and that there is a whole board dedicated to porn featuring amputees, I'm rather sure that some Streloks will find those to be rather appealing.
Landon Lee
Lilly is objectively best girl tbh
Cooper Cook
Hunter Perry
I would buy one if not for the fact that they do not sell anything larger than a 16" barrel. I might get one in 5.56, though.
Sebastian Moore
If it didn't have all the gay writing on it, number two would be pretty rad honestly.
Christian Hernandez
I'm new to funs and some help on FALs, friends.
Since I'm a (former) leaf, I'd like to get a Canadian pattern FAL. After doing some research and talking to a friend, the best way to get one would be buying an inch pattern FAL and then replacing some parts to make it as close the C1 as possible.
Fortunately, I found a website that sells parts for C1s.
marstar.ca
Anyway, my question is, would it be possible to do so?
Would inch pattern FALs be able to be modified into bootleg C1s by swapping out all the relevant parts?
William Anderson
This is gonna sound nuts, but I wanna see a T20E2 built with a Farquhar-Hill gas system.
Grayson Sanchez
Did you mean to say: " the point where the sights DON'T attach to the receiver/barrel"?
Logan Sanchez
Now imagine how more managable would this rifle be if it had a slower RoF, around 300 rounds/min.
Justin Bennett
You'd best stick with PTR. Cetme 308s aren't always exactly built to HK 91 spec, so aftermarket, and spare parts won't always work; and there can be a bit of slop. That, and cetme doesnt have the authentic HK aperture sights.
If you invest in a ptr-91, you'll never regret it, doubly so if you install the heavy recoil buffer that HKparts sells. Out of everything I've ever shot, the ptr is probably the best. But that's just my opinion.
If you're dead set on building something from the ground up instead of buying something complete, give them (PTR) a call, they very well might supply build kits.
Luis Sullivan
How can you get a good working CETME? I want one as well as a fr8.
Jace Myers
Just get a PTR, bro. It will serve you far better and it's basically the same damn rifle. I do think the FR-8 is sexy as hell, though, and they're not expensive. Actually. I'm pretty sure you could seat a G3/CETME type rifle onto a wooden stock a-la-Super Vepr given a bit of work.
Leo Russell
Eli Mitchell
bump
Anthony Evans
Why isn't this post a banner?
Jordan Jackson
more importantly, it adds unnecessary weight. you probably don't need a 20" barrel
Nolan Roberts
What is the obsession with carbines lately? If you're shooting a full power cartridge why wouldn't you want a full length barrel? You're using a platform deliberately designed for more powerful loads and then you chop off enough of the barrel to piss away some not insignificant fraction of the powder charge as muzzle blast. Yeah sure, it's not like a full power cartridge our of a 16" barrel isn't powerful medicine but what's the point? If you want a lighter rifle why aren't you using an intermediate cartridge rifle, or even an SMG/PCC? You can carry more ammunition, the recoil will be more controllable, the rifle itself will be intrinsically lighter, and you're less likely to go deaf if you have to fire the weapon in an enclosed space.
I guess I can see the argument for improved terminal ballistics out of a full power vs intermediate carbine but it just feels like you're trying to make it do something it really isn't intended for, especially against human targets.
Anthony Richardson
Considering 5.56 is extremely velocity dependent, yes, you probably do need a 20" barrel. There's a reason bullpups suddenly got more popular after the adoption of 5.56. The M4 carbine unironically has a maximum effective range of 65 yards.
Charles Brown
Daniel Murphy
Pls gib 5.45.
Mason Robinson
This chart is shit and so is your opinion.
Jose Rivera
You're full of shit and don't know what you're talking about. The effective point target on an M4 is 500 meters using M855A1 ammo. Not only is your chart using the old M855 as the supposed ammo, but you don't actually understand what it says. Fragmentation threshold != effective range.
Ethan Green
The round is shit, Strelok, and you can't just ignore all information that conflicts with your opinion. Are you the faggot who tried claiming that air pressure was a more important variable for killing a bear than the ballistics of the bullet?
Landon Edwards
Then what about the fact that at 500m, the M855 still has more energy than a 9mm NATO load at the muzzle.
Ian Jenkins
What are you talking about? How is that relevant at all to the thread or to this discussion? Is this derailment? Even if you weren't shitposting (you are) and this implication was meaningful (it really isn't), that's not even factually correct unless you're cherrypicking. A standard load of 9mm Parabellum gets between 350 and 400 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle from a 5" barrel, generally closer to 400, and 9mm NATO is Parabellum +P - meaning it is stronger. At 500 meters (you said meters, not yards), as evidenced in the chart above, having equivalent levels of energy from a 5.56 M855 is a best case scenario and only possible if using a 20" or longer barrel.
Easton Sanchez
Shit855 will punch a 22lr hole in the target at 500m, that's twice as small as 9mm and not enough to incapacitate the target even with the latter by blood loss alone.
Robert Martin
The original M16 weighed all of 6 pounds. With modern tech you can get that down to a little over 5, lower if you opt for a handguard without m-lok. If you have a weight problem with a 20" barrel it means you've got too much shit stuck to your gun. As points out, 5.56 is highly velocity-dependent and works best out of a 20" barrel. Further, I can tell you from experience it's not nearly as much an impediment on TACTICOOL URBAN OPERATING as the mallninjas would have you believe, just keep aware of where your muzzle is and you won't have an issue. Finally, consider that it's far easier to make a longer gun work at short range than vice versa; you can train around the issues of a long gun at short range, but no amount of training will change the ballistics of your bullets.
While it is an overrated meme cartridge, .224 Valkyrie is a decent example of an AR cartridge with the ballistic advantages of 5.45.
Brody Johnson
Obviously you can't read. It's more energy than a 9mm. Compare that to other intermediate rounds like 7.62x39, or 5.45x39, and you realize that not only does 5.56 have more energy than both, but that external ballistics are also better. Congratulations, you're retarded.
Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. M882, the 9mm standard used by the US does not exceed 364fpe. Even if it was the case, as previously mentioned, it outperforms other competing calibers, so I don't exactly get the complaints.
Elijah Smith
wot
And yeah, 62gr is dogshit awful, the worst 5.56 loading, but it's what most countries and almost all civvies use. Even M193 was better, not only due to "muh threshold", but because it's lighter, cheaper to manufacture and more accurate due to being a homogeneous bullet.
No one mentioned M855A1. Care to provide a source for your claims by the way?
It basically is though, sure you can make hits past the fragmentation threshold range, but you will be inflicting zero terminal ballistics outside of icepicking, it is basically as effective as high velocity .22LR at that point, there's a reason every nation involved in Afghanistan started fielding battle rifles/DMRs again.
M855A1 is dogshit in other aspects, it completely shreds barrel extensions and has a port pressure almost equal to that of a proof round, it also requires specific magazines to feed reliably. It puts shit tonnes of wear on rifles for a few extra yards of effectiveness, which could have just been solved with Mk262. There's a reason the USMC refused to adopt it for so long and still hasn't fully adopted it.
Tyler Thomas
And i'm saying that its energy doesn't mean shit. Learn to read you nigger subhuman.
7.62x39 - 1,607 ft⋅lbf 16 INCH BARREL
5.56x45 - 1,393 ft⋅lbf 20 INCH BARREL
5.45x39 - 0.168 BC
5.56x45 - 0.152 BC
It looks like i'm not the one who is retarded, you single digit IQ son of a mexican whore cuckchanner.
Guys, i think we have found a faggot that is dumber than US military.