Actual bullet ballistics reports

This paper seems to mostly be about identifying gunshot wounds with a small section about "stopping power" which the author says in the case of handgun rounds hollowpoints are not any more lethal then standard rounds. I might be stupid but that seems a bit off.

Now you say that, but I've seen pictures of a deer's innards nearly liquefied by proper 5.56 to the heart. It was a sub-150 yard shot, sure, but a properly designed round with a 20" barrel does perform well.

it's not about identifying gunshot wounds, although it could be used that way, it describes what characteristics of a wound are caused by what aka ballistic reports. with that in mind, when he says hollowpoint is not more lethal compared to roundnose, if you're purely looking at the wound profile they both leave similar paths and have similar characteristics, the considerations of being stopped in the target's body or crushing slightly more mass secondary.

Go fuck yourself for that image, I was having dinner.
Have some slav science anyway.

Bullets don't crush tissue you fucking retard, that isn't how gunshot wounding works. Stop repeating your headcanon in every thread.

It can be done with such a setup but it's still not very recommended because of bigger reliance on shot placement. I read something about lighter bullets and lower sectional density and insufficient penetrating capability than amount recommended for such game.

...

In all seriousness, the difference in circumference is not that dramatic and shot placement is always king. As for velocity, .223(5.56) beats out .308 Winchester below 500 yards(~450 meters) where they become more or less equal, so penetration is not an issue.
Bullet weight is one thing, for certain, though expanding and otherwise properly deforming rounds make up for the lost mass with surface area.

He's German not slav, JKGFJJHFJEnhjKLFEBHJKLHKNJLL yourself, faggot.

is this bait?

A leaf complaining about shit posting pic.
A leaf.
I swear I have lost so much respect for my northern neighbors because of Zig Forums.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs
Serbs left some remnants there during their migration.

The Germans are a unification of dozens of groups of people. They fought for centuries before the idea of the nation-state allowed them to invent a single identity.

Attached: Migration_of_Serbs.png (600x600, 321.55K)

You can be quiet now if you don't have anything else to contribute to the main topic of the thread.

Attached: 1536945007292.jpg (500x238, 28.89K)

You're retarded, and you need rake.

Attached: 61d2315cdddd24b3f66b1d452ee60cfaea5d641a9552e99e9a4d9994e3abb273.png (346x320, 126.34K)

Penetration capability of a bullet is very dependent on its sectional density, not just the speed and shape.
chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

While I respect the time and effort put into his studies, the difference between his theory and actual physical proof are night and day when he claims 5.56 and the like are ineffective against humans.
It's demonstrably false.

I wish I could but a homosexual faggot keeps trying to call me out.

Here I was thinking the US education system was bad.
In certain southern states in the US, dindus are called Canadians when relaying a story to prevent those overhearing from getting butthurt over racism.
I'm thinking it's appropriate.

It is though, especially in current military configuration.

So you're basing the performance of commercial ammunition on military FMJ that isn't made for the carbines it's being fired out of?

I'm saying that military FMJ is the one most often used on humans and it's not that good for the job.

The cartridge is not to be blamed for the inadequacies of the rifle firing it. 55gr M193 did very well on soft targets and armor, despite pacifist faggots complaining it was too brutal for war. It did very well out of a 20 inch barrel with it's twist rate of 1 twist per 12 inches, before the Army had to 'improve' it. In current configuration, the cartridge suffers from poor construction and implementation in 14.5 inch carbines meant for use beyond 300 meters. This is retarded to all by the kikes running logistics, who continue to make money off inefficiency. 5.56 has potential for effectiveness and balance, but neither of those qualities are good for business.

Current issued 5.56 is best used in a 20-22" barrel where it gets about 95% powder burn.
The typical 14.5-16.5" doesn't get the velocities out of it that it should.
For the tiny 55gr bullet, the loss of velocity is a significant loss of power.

I had to take a visit to arfcom for this shit - .223 can sometimes do too much internal damage for hunters depending on ammunition used.

That was my point - the rounds weren't made for the carbines issued. RusAnon seems to be basing the performance of 5.56 in general upon that setup.

Attached: 3058875894_91c8b49e6b.jpg (500x375 172.46 KB, 149.95K)

Ok, fair enough. I guess it's my personal bias against long rifles used on ranges not much longer than PDW/SMG ones when one could get more than double the range in the same package.6mm intermediate cartridge when

I linked the wrong post.
It was intended for the Slav.

Whew, now that is some of the hardest 5.56 shilling I've ever heard. That's a doozy you got there, friend.

Energy is more important than velocity, and the whole "velocity is everything" only became fashionable when the military switched and had to defend the 5.56 and 9mm. It has some roots in the old 220 Swift and how it was marketed as a quick killer of even large game (but only with perfect shots at close range) and how high velocity small caliber guns cause varmits to explode (yet slower and more powerful bullets also do this) to eventually cause a myth to form. Please read "The Idolatry of Velocity, or Lies, Damn Lies, and Ballistics" and see how the cult that worships velocity is one of myth and legend, not fact.

The 308 Winchester will outdamage a 223 at every range, long and short, the extra velocity does not make it better at any range at all. At 500 yards the 308 has far more power and will do far more damage and is far more stable in flight. They are not "more or less equal" they are vastly different and 308 is even better at 500 yards than it is at point blank in performance. As stated by another poster, penetration of tissue has more to do with weight and sectional density, not velocity (although many hard barriers are very velocity affected, tissue is the opposite) and your edge in velocity will not cause it to have excellent penetration at that range in tissue.

The 308 and other high power rifles will do more damage because of superior hydrostatic shock/permanent stretch damage, and therefore the statement that you have more room for error in shot placement is true, you can miss the vitals with the POI a little bit more with the more damaging round and still damage/crush/tear it effectively for an efficient and ethical kill. Most of all, .223/5.56 for hunting deer is a bad idea because the bullets used are so small that they tend to fragment on bone and will fail to penetrate into the animal to the organs and kill the animal at all. Sure, with the right shot you can kill a deer, but with the real life impacts hunters make under imperfect conditions and mistakes and pulled shots, its not an ethical choice because it can fail in those scenarios where a truly ethical caliber choice would not have failed. 243,270,30-30,308 ect. will punch through a big buck's shoulder and kill it, while a .224 caliber bullet may shatter and fail to reach the vitals, that bone being in the way of the perfect angle kill shot and in the area of the vital organs.

By the way, its also not a "small difference" in caliber holes. An 8mm Mauser has TWICE the frontal surface area of bullet than a .224 anything. 45-70 Gumit has been used for effective hunting with low velocity, low energy, barely expanding lead bullets because its a large bullet. Its not just a "few thousands of an inch lol" that became popular after 45 ACP hollow points began to out expand 9mm Luger (considering he fuss 9mm fanbois made about it when they were outexpanding with early ammunition or against 45 ball) the .458 caliber is over 4 times as large, meaning it can crush 4 times the tissue with the same depth of penetration, as well as superior resistance and tearing of tissue.

So, no, I would argue the bans on 223 for hunting deer are ethical, sane, and should be upheld. There are better choices for consideration and no real excuse to use an inferior one.

holy hell your post is hard to read
It's a bunch of assumptions and hearsay supplemented with "muh stoppin' powah" and a clear lack of actual wound observation regarding actual hunting ammunition.

Well no shit, but all of the photographic evidence shows it's not because it underperforms but because match ammunition destroys too much meat and lighter grain breaks bone.
Theory is all well and good, but if it's based upon outdated information then it's not worth a second glance.

How so?

You're replying to a guy who believes that bullets wound by "crushing". You know, because the stretchy elastic materials known as flesh, muscle, and organs are so easily damaged by crushing them, and punching a fucking hole in them or tearing them with the dispersion of impact energy and transfer of momentum doesn't hurt at all? You know how those high-end hollow points do a good job of crushing things when they deform and fragment? There's your answer. He's a retard with zero real shooting experience.

Theory? I am a hunter and I know what bullets do. Your pictures are typical, nothing special, and do nothing to change what has been presented. 223 is not a super meat destroyer, match bullets are built for accuracy not damage, and I'm starting to get the feeling you've never hunted anything before. Never did I mention stopping power, I explained various aspects of bullets and their performance. I think you are a typical internet poster whose just shitposting, or autistic like our old friend. , who also knows nothing about terminal ballistics and follows certain myths of his own.

Sorry, what I should have said was that the 308's superiority in performance over the 223 is far greater when both rounds are considered at 500 yards than if both rounds were compared at point blank performance. I stated that poorly before, you are correct. The further the distance we compare both rounds at, the 308's advantage over the 223 at the same distance grows. Or better stated, the 223 is more competitive at closer ranges to the 308 when we compare them at the same range, and that disadvantage the 223 suffers only gets worse as that range comparison increases in distance.

You are that retard who is probably on disability because of untreatable autism who keeps screetching ignorantly in all of these threads. Not worth the time to discuss anything with you any longer.

Well didn't you know? Ballistics study hasn't advanced past the days of the trebuchet, bullets crush like a mallet.
Hydrostatic shock is definitely a real and legitimate thing because a smart guy said so once, and the displacement of water after just one round of .45 ACP turns your insides into jelly!
Nevermind that people who have actually been shot don't actually notice anything about being shot past the stinging heat, they're just dumbasses who have never fired a gun a day in their lives.
And don't even mention the corpses that don't really show anything past the body's desperate struggle to stay alive after being magdumped, truly the trauma of that first or eighth round into non-vital areas was what knocked him on his feet. Not shock setting in or the eventual bloodloss. I bet if the United States Military used .45-70 leverguns they wouldn't even have to hit the enemy to pop their heads open!

You see, instead of looking at actual gunshot wounds for study, we look at those gigantic temporary wound cavities in blocks of gelatin, because while they aren't representative of the human body whatsoever and are actually intended as a consistent testbed for comparison and basic projectile function, they definitely show what a round actually does when faced with organs and tissue and generally the proposed target's state of mind.

...

I think you may have offended him.

Attached: 61b41cf0ed0367e4d37b12e5162fce2fcf6f9e1e3035b58de1dce20ad9b951c3.png (2000x1058, 207.3K)

Dang, even on anonymous imageboards kids (and manchildren) would make up shit about stuff they don't know anything about, not even for the lulz, but just to appear credible.

Who gives a fuck? Just acknowledge that your entire knowledge on the subject amounts to dick and you're regurgitating some urban legends and whatnot. Or leave it alone without acknowledging this but without doubling down on your horseshit either.

Attached: 1436332014274.jpg (255x191, 9.11K)

I'm going to (You) you just to draw attention to the fact that you're throwing a tantrum because you got called out. You aren't within your rights to call anyone a 'kid', you projecting attention whore loser. Blogpost somewhere else.

I think we can all agree that a .50 BMG will cause more damage than a .22lr at 30yd.
What ends up happening in these threads is a constant argument about what actually matters.
Mass, speed, sectional density, total energy, diameter, bullet shape, bullet spin, and bullet deformation all play a part in end results.
But what ratios? How much change before the difference becomes noticeable? What about changes in the target?
Certainly the FBI gel tests leave a lot to be desired. (OP had a good point in startign this thread.)
I have read through the US Army testing when they developed the .45acp, Dr. Vincent Di Maio, that study on defensive handgun effectiveness thaat I can't remember the author of right now, and a shit ton of articles and reports on the subject.
What i drew is that the experts can't agree on how to determine how effective a particular cartridge is over all.
The dynamics of each individual shot vary so much that getting true usable data becomes difficult.
Dr. Vincent Di Maio does an excellent job of presenting his findings but in many ways his work just adds to the confusion.
I carry either .45ACP or .38spl +p for my concealed carry.
Is this the right load?
Who the fuck knows, there's too many variables.

tl;dr The experts don't agree on this shit, you think we here at Zig Forums are going to come to a consensus?

Attached: 1533995587548.gif (695x392, 2.24M)

I carry .50 A&E and use .50 BMG for durr hunting. But I heard 20mm might be better, not sure I have enough sectional density.

Please post pics after next hunt.

Attached: pepelaughcry.jpg (248x189, 17.84K)

Funny, I do study this field. I know what real gunshots look like, apparently you don't. I don't repeat urban myths but instead observations and work of people in the field, including what I've seen. Everything you've attributed to me is strawmen, did I say anything of what you are implying I said? No. You are a failure and are just attacking me because you have nothing useful to rebut or say.

If you think long, well written posts that are actually useful and informative are "blogposts" and are bad, well, I guess I'm a bad poster for being informative and well read, and you must be a good poster because you are an ignorant shitposter, which makes sense considering where we are.

Look, you've already stopped making valid arguments and are jumping straight to name calling and strawmen. You really are a complete and total fraud aren't you? Where did you steal the picture of the deer kill?

You never made any valid arguments yourself. Your posting style is easily spotted because you didn't show up here until a few months ago, and you type nearly identical rants in multiple threads at least once a week. Always about how bullets crush tissue and how hydrostatic shock and permanent stretch cavity are the same thing, despite none of that making jack shit worth a lick of sense.

Which subreddit are you a refugee from anyway? Unlike whatever pit that was, this community is pretty insular, so bullshit, lack of information, and disruption get noticed quick. This whining counts as disruption tbh fam.

Attached: PHOTO_20150629_091538.jpg (1280x720, 185.89K)

You Jewish, by the way? Walking into a place as an uninvited guest and then seeking ways to attack the culture of the place you invaded sounds pretty heeby to me, my dude. If you want people to think you're smart, then stop typing page-long dissertations of nothing and back up your central points with objectivity, instead of this pansy 'it's true because I said it and if you criticise me you're the idiot' malarkey. Or if you want them to think you look like a douche, keep talking like one. I gotta say it's not attractive, though.

where do you think the flesh goes after a hole is created in body by a bullet you absolutely monumental retards? do you think that it just vaporizes?

Attached: 9acf251625ccd0f8091268c6378d67e90b7e79328a800fb9fff205704f7d9396.png (552x543, 266.33K)

...

How effective would a vehicle-mounted MK 103 loaded with 30x184B HEF/M be at Landwhale hunting?

I don't even know what to say. Commit suicide you literal 0 IQ flesh lump.

Why don't you come to my house and I'll crush your belly with my Bowie knife, you subhuman nogunz?

Attached: 21aba09976ee3306081d218d08f47c1cd473bb59101066c576c370cff220a48e.jpg (1280x720, 131.78K)

6.5 Grendel beats them both.

9mm hollow point is the end all be all of pistol ammunition, anything that is better than it in any single regard is worse than it in three other areas.

BOW DOWN TO YOUR KING, 30-30 WINCHESTER
Heretics who defame Our King by comparing it to 7.62 x 39 shall be burnt alive with black powder substitute

Attached: 30-30 win.jpg (1155x1155, 110.74K)

Wow, I wasn't aware that you had to be invited onto an imageboard, or that retarded autists who spend their entire lives posting on a board every single day of their lives owned them! I guess actual knowledge of the facts is trumped by the fact you are a worthless, but veteran, shitposter on this board. I guess your seniority here makes all of your arguments automatically correct, I am sorry.

imagine being so eternally enraged that you vpn hop when someone makes fun of you
imagine getting nitpicky about exact wording when the meaning is the same
imagine being -1 IQ

Attached: wew.png (500x540, 244.83K)

Nobody has gone anywhere, dude. The simple fact is you don't know how bullets work and you have to double down and use hyperbole to pretend you have any idea what you're talking about. Your posting style would be more welcome on Facebook politics threads.

Ashkenazilet spotted.

That's a good video. Has a neat late 80's early 90's instructional video vibe. Tell me of this Paul Harrell.

My condolences to your family for having to carry your burden.

Attached: 2c6af7c5ea56f7bcbf2615a333c2729df9977b70ea26ba829c4edb54a5f63758.jpg (842x699, 53.31K)

Do you mean the virgin 9x19mm Parabellum or the chand 9x25mm Mauser?

Attached: 9x19vs9x25mm.jpg (303x468, 94.01K)

Would a 5" barrel take advantage of greater case capacity whilst keeping pressure low enough for an acceptable service life with affordable alloys and metallurgical processing?