As an agnostic/Mithraic traditionalist I have found it very hard to find any girls that share my anti-modernity, anti-degenerate views. My dream is to lead a large, traditionalist European family but as I have not found anyone that has even similar goals in my fields of interest I have come to the conclusion that I may have to join a church to find one.
My questions to you are:
1. Is this a good idea? I may be willing to convert if that is required for the marriage but at the moment I see Christianity a form of Judaism and an opponent and corrupter of pure European ideals.
2. What denomination remains traditionalist to this day? I see a lot of churches accepting the sexual degeneracies of (((Western society))) and hardly any oppose it. These were mostly Protestants though and I don't have much experience with Catholics or any other denomination.
European procreation
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
youtube.com
hts.org.za
en.wikipedia.org
scribd.com
tertullian.org
youtu.be
twitter.com
Look up "Jesus in the Talmud".
I know that the Jews HATE Christianity but all Early Christians were Jews and Christianity was created as a fulfillment of old Judaism.
Many forms of the religion have large European influence though and are more Pagan than Judaic.
This goes through the first Christians: youtube.com
Emphasis on old.
there were greek converts among the 70 apostles, so better put a lot of emphasis.
I came to hate white people, and I don’t care about Europe anymore: the Western part is as good as dead, and the Eastern part (rightfully) laughs at us.
Give up any dream and hope this death will come fast, and that the Lord will find you worthy of His mercy.
Europe is not going to be the degenerate societies that they once were in the last half-century. Civilizational collapse is going to be at the center of that. It's a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a declination mode, and the economic collapse will be resented because of its leading leading role.
No, if you do not convince yourself of Christianity's veracity, you don't get to LARP as one of us to poach our pure virgin girls from us. Fuck off if you are not even honestly interested in inquiring into the truth of the religion and just want to use it for your utilitarian purposes. Christian churches are becoming degenerate? Sure, but we have a better track record of fighting this than agnostics or Mithraists.
The documentary I linked goes through the conflicts between Christians that wanted Christianity to remain Jewish and those that wanted it to be universal. In its early days you had to be circumcised and such to be a Christian but the other side eventually won out. Although today there are rising Christian movements that larp as Jews.
The sociological and ethnic changes will destroy identity, culture and traditions: two generations and we’ll be history.
We revolted against God and now it’s too late to beg Him to save us all.
The Mithraic cults exterminated homosexuals until they were outlawed by Christian Rome (whose rule the empire died under).
My traditions are thousands of years older than yours.
then stick to them and quit trying to jack our swagger
The issue is that non-Christian traditionalists are a tiny minority and as such hard to find.
And what have they done for us lately?
Why?
>2. What denomination remains traditionalist to this day? I see a lot of churches accepting the sexual degeneracies of (((Western society))) and hardly any oppose it. These were mostly Protestants though and I don't have much experience with Catholics or any other denomination.
Your best bet would be on of the apostolic churches, like Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.
I think the best option for you would be to accept Christianity, not because of any "traditionalism", but because it's the truth.
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Which European country are you in? There's quite a few of us Europeans here. :)
If something dies out it's because it's weak. Dead religions with few or no practitioners cannot be successfully revived on any meaningful scale. Even you don't believe in Mithraism or you would not call yourself agnostic. Just like so many other neopagans who lack actual beliefs.
What exactly is a European ideal? Considering Europe as one group is a Christian idea, before Christ Europeans were genociding themselves and killing each other and Romans and Greeks considered the rest uncivilized. I'm not sure how Catholicism could be opposed to an European ideal since it built western civilization.
Catholicism has the same teachings from 2000 years ago. Only church with no divorce and no contraception. It's guided by the Holy Spirit so it can't fall into error concerning it's teachings but it's in it's worst crisis and there are few priests that teach the teachings of the Church.
If you should convert for a woman? No it's quite pathetic and you'll never be able to fake it if you don't believe it and it will be the cause of the rupture of your family down the line.
Read some of Paul's epistles sometimes. It was always a universal Church but yes judaizers were a early heresy that came back with Protestantism. Jews were really attached to the mosaic law so they tried to bring it with them when some of them converted but that would nullify the sacrifice of Christ if salvation was through the law.
Why does everybody just want to convert for the women?
That's not a good reason and you'll likely apostate.
Their own belief systems have failed not only to produce virtuous women, but have even failed to survive as actual, believed-in religions. They are therefore forced to try to poach ours. Mostly unsuccessfully, I believe; I think most sincerely religious girls would be able to spot a LARPer readily.
Cringe.
However, Zig Forums-superiority complex aside, the Catholic and Orthodox churches remain pretty traditional.
Don't forget some independent Protestant churches if you look hard enough.
That's because their traditions are dead, like they should be.
If you find a traditionalist woman who isn't Christian these days, I'm gonna say it, she's probably a washed-up whore who wants some "spirituality" but still hates the truth of Christianity.
For real? That would be a particularly made-up type of modern neopaganism, given how Mithraism was a mystery cult and all, comparable to today's Scientology.
Early Christians also didn't believe in the Talmud.
Mate, go to Church and count the number of young women in there. Then count the number of those young women who are single. Besides, you go to Church to listen to the truth of the Gospel, not to find a traditionalist virgin girlfriend. That's a lost cause.
Mithraism was practiced in the 1st to 4th centuries AD.
True but they tend to be off the deep end of that spectrum, they're either gay marriage supporters or young Earth creationists, I hope there are Protestant denominations that are more reasonable and in the middle.
>>>Zig Forums
These are the sort of "converts" Jordan Peterson brings. I know because I had one over for dinner recently because he was interested in finding a church.
The emphasis is on the practical good effects of the church and I'm not denying those… but look guy
The benefits of Christianity spawn from a true believing in its reality. If you hold anything back, if you think you're doing this to get something but that you can retain yourself, it will give you nothing.
So, like you want to join because God gives many of us large, traditional families. Sure, because most of the time that's what's good - I got my large traditional family and I converted without realizing that's what I wanted. When I converted, I wanted to be a warrior for God, I was willing to die for my faith but, after a couple years of spiritual warfare, God plopped a devout Christian wife on my lap and made it clear to me I was supposed to have a family with her. It's gone great but it certainly wasn't my plan coming in.
Likewise, be ready for God to send you out as a warrior, a martyr, a priest… or maybe a family man. If you insist on doing things a single way, you'll never get closer to God.
Instead, truly believe and pray. Belief is easy, ignore the atheists. If you take something as true, that's all that's required:
-Christ died for your sins,
-Christ rose on the third day,
-If you accept his sacrifice and abide in his love he will give you the gift of eternal life.
Now, you can doubt it whilst believing it. That's fine, faith is a gift from God- that's while we pray. I'm not telling you to have faith, just belief. Faith comes from prayer and revelation.
Any of your pet beliefs, don't worry about then. Focusing on Christ as truth, see if you can logically keep them. If so, do. If not, dispose of them.
This is what it means to convert, this is what is necessary to recieve the benefits. I gave up all of myself to join. I am an utterly different person now- but a much better, and a much happier one. I do not regret at all what I lost, it was just sin being purged out and I pray that God will continue to purge more demons from me.
internationalism is cancer
Christianity is a form of Abrahamisn, Judaism was invented in 500AD.
All early Christians were Israelites, only Jesus and Judas were Jews.
Pic related.
God calls all to his church even if their motives may seem vain. Funnily enough if you accept God and join the catholic church then you will be given the gift of faith that will order all vanity into love of God.
So yes you should join the catholic Church as it is the Church founded by Jesus on St Peter and is the religion of your ancestors and all your morality and traditions come from it and are unshakeable dogma in it.
It is also dogma that Catholics may not have support or host Jews and the two religions are polar opposites.
...
toppest of keks
Well if you're a traditionalist you should know that Guenon wrote traditions which die will always remain dead. Face it, the only living Western Tradition IS the Traditional Christian one you find in Catholicism and Orthodoxy
Many early Christians were Greek. In fact, the new testament was originally written in Greek.
Christianity is not only the fulfillment of Judaism, but also the fulfillment of Zoroastrianism and other gentile religions. Take it from a persian, being a mithraist is the same as being a jew, in that it's a rejection of God and His complete tradition in favor of the incomplete tradition.
This is what I've observed as well. These people, many of whom were once in the New Atheist crowd, are realizing that a post-religious West isn't what it was cracked up to be. But rather then finding the root of life they're scrambling for the fruits. It's the same with the Neopagans, who are really just there for the aesthetics (which isn't wrong, but it shouldn't and can't be an end in itself). These splintered movements want some part of the pie but all they'll get in the end is mush
I hate atheism and always have. Pure materialism with no higher goal disgusts me and leads to the collapse of societies..
Then perhaps we need a new myth.
An example of European ideals being destroyed are the honor and warrior spirit of pre-Christian Europe. Emphasis on acting honorably was replaced with the idea of not sinning and feeling guilt and asking for forgiveness if you did. Our warrior spirit was replaced with Christian pacifism and the "turn the other cheek' doctrine.
I phrased that way so that you don't think that I believe the myths of the religion in a literal way but see them on an esoteric and symbolic level.
What is your definition of Judaism then? What were the people of Judah from the time that Jesus died to the writing of the Talmud 500 years later? (who weren't Christians)
Ok, but can you give me any solid reference against race-mixing in the Bible? The most I've seen is some American Southerners saying that Negoes have the mark of Cain.
No, you need to preserve the one which has been handed down to you, and abandon pretenses to anything else e.g. "Traditional Mithraism".
What? Not sinning is literally the most honourable thing you can do in life. Do you think that strength comes only from brute force and fighting? Do you think that honour is only about a public life? Heaven forfend we have a conscience and view the consequences of our actions.
And then you turn around and tell us Christianity was also too violent and bloodthirsty and did too much damage.
Also "turn the other cheek" is as much about submitting to hardship with patience, especially when undeserved, as it is using the mores and attitudes of the culture around you against your oppressor.
Not him, but an attempt to recreate the Temple religion without the temple, and with a lot more of a reliance on paedagogic stories about clever rabbis than divine scripture and ancient tradition.
Basically Jewish Asatru.
Your talking about the cults in Rome however these only materialized from far older myths. All forms of European Paganism have an element of Solar worship, which is where you get Christmas from BTW. It is celebrating the Sun's resurrection as it begins to return brining the life of Spring.
Wasn't it just the tribe Judah (Jews) that practiced the Torah at that time?
We don't get to generate 'new myths' by our wills, it's Providence that determines those things. Many groups have attempted what you speak of but its only lead to even greater degeneracy
Come now user, you should know that's factually untrue. The Church rarely ever attacked the ideals of European tribes, in fact it usually brought those same characteristics into sacrality. Greek philosophy, Roman law, and yes, even the Germanic warring spirit all found their place in Christendom, and not at the cost to truth.
Nope. According to Aquinas
Racemixing naturally arises when societies become unnatural. I've lived in pagan countries most of my life and it's happening over there as well, especially in urban populations
It's true that some European tribes merged with Christianity but some were also forced to convert through conquest.
Christ could have got out of the Crucifixion if he had wanted to but, as you say, it is part of his sacrifice for us. This idea of suffering rather than resisting was practiced by many of the apostles as well though, all of the original 12 were killed. I myself would much rather lie or cheat my enemies than lose to them. (I use term 'enemy' very strongly here and don't do these things in day to day life)
You realized the term Pagan specifically refers to rural populations as they keep their traditions alive for far longer than those in cities.
No, it's not you moron.
It was founded as a replacement for a pagan holiday which could be about anything, it doesn't matter.
They couldn't have lost if they spread their religion throughout the world.
Also, only 10 of the 12 apostles were martyred, Judas committed suicide and I believe it was John who died of natural causes.
Paganism is the most natural thing and has been practiced for as long as there have been people. Christianity is just 2000 years old though so I don't see how that can be natural. It is modern civilization that is unnatural and the cause of such degeneracies.
You have made a good point and changed my mind. They died for a higher cause were immortalized as a result, very noble.
I think we should take it a compliment that you are this intent on dating our women.
Even still, you'd be hard pressed to find a traditional Christian woman who would marry a non-Christian.
Sorry, mate.
I think I tagged myself in that post.
Welp
Yeah that term can get a bit muddled sometimes. Hindus are pagan in the sense that they aren't Christian, but not necessarily pagan in the sense that a rural heathen from 300AD would have been
Not true. Firstly, Animism is far older than paganism (I take it you mean something like polytheism here). Secondly, just as the polytheists absorbed the folk beliefs and customs of their Animist ancestors, so have we Christians done with ours.
What traditional religions have in common is that they operate through the innate religious framework which all of us share. Sikhism does it, even though it's a few centuries old and monotheistic, and Christianity does it too. So Christianity is definitely natural in that sense, but it's also supernatural in that we're to transcend the flesh. Where people like Nietzsche go wrong is that they interpret 'supernatural' as 'rejection of the natural', but that's a misinterpretation
I like that quote you added, Catholicism definitely retained a lot of Pagan tradition, especially the festivals. I can understand the view that Christianity is the culmination of everything that has come before but don't completely agree.
Would you be able to go into more detail by what you mean by a 'traditional religion'? Do you refer to religions that have a rich mythos and festivals to accompany them and are there any religions you would consider not part of this group?
Good luck with that. We don't need you to convert. You were given ample opportunity in this thread, if you want to burn in hell there are many others like you.
I don't see why the brothers here keep wasting their breath. Go and do what you like.
You're saying you don't like Christianity because of it's founder and the majority it's early advocates being of Hebrew, rather than European, descent? This line of thinking assumes that there is a link between race and religion. That a religion is the product of the people who practice it, an expression of their genes and because of this a person of a certain race shouldn't practice a religion that originated from people of a different race because the expression of the latter race's genes are not compatible with genes, and by extension the nature, of the former race.The problem with this assumption is that if religions are just expressions of different races' genes, then they're just works of fiction, mere products of imagination. No one who thinks this way can be anything other than an atheist.
That's not true user, there are always Muslim girls :^)
If you only believe in a religion symbolically than you don't really believe in it. You can't escape materialism if you only believe in the material plane of existence. Creating a new myth just for the purpose of symbolism will accomplish nothing. None of the people who practiced the pagan religions thought they were only myths. This is like Peterson saying he believes in God as a Jungian archetype. It's all just a way to remain an atheist while turning a blind eye to all of the ideological, philosophical, and metaphysical dead ends atheism leads to.
One way to think about it is that traditional religions and societies distinguish the sacred and the profane. For instance, in Catholicism our churches are a consecrated space, our myths aren't simply stories but they contain symbolic truths, our rosaries aren't just beads but spiritual weapons, and so on. Now look at, say, your typical megachurch evangelical. His church isn't meant to be any different from a movie theater, he might think the entire Old Testament is literal human history, in the same vein as the Napoleonic Wars, and nothing else.. in other words there's no distinction, he slaps on a fish bumper sticker and thinks that's religious.
Mircea Eliade goes really in-depth on this, you should look him up
True. Nowadays we find this split with people who believe only symbolically and people who believe only historically. Both sides are in error
Thanks user, I see what you mean now and will definitely look up Eliade.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I think the Pagan religions were believed on both symbolic and literal levels. For example, the children would think of a God purely as a being but as they grew older they would see that they represented an area such as knowledge or fertility which adds a new lesson to the stories about the God. Many of Germanic peoples would also claim they had become Wotan/Odin and take on his role as chief and knowledge seeker so the God could be true on that level as well.
I think there could be a comparison in Christianity here of Jesus being both God and man or being both the son of God and God. Muslims never understand the idea of God becoming man or the trinity and I think that this is because these are European ideas.
I'm pretty sure that the adults believed in the gods literally as well, considering they regularly gave sacrifices to the gods. Tacitus said the Germanic pagans even sacrificed humans to their gods. Unless you mean the adults believed in the gods both literally and symbolically.
Not exactly. The Trinity is not a concept that was grafted onto Christianity by the Europeans later. It was always a part of the faith from the beginning, however the Church Fathers did refine the articulation of the concept and used the term "trinity" to more clearly explain it to people less adept in exegesis(though even the word trinity itself isn't perfectly accurate.)
"ooga booga gimme ur white women"
"fuckin crackas stole our cultures we wuz kangz n shiet"
You act the same way as the people you hate. Get out.
LARPagans get the axe.
...
What is this LARPing?
It's really easy to say that you follow a dead religion when its tenets and practices are almost completely unknown. For example, Mithra killed a bull and it was really important for some reason? No rituals, no pesky theology, no moral guidelines. Dead mystery religions with forgotten mysteries make things easy.
Lmao fuck off dude
How exactly can you be a Mithraist? Last I checked the Mithraic scriptures were lost forever and the religion hasn't been practiced in nearly two millennia so its doctrines couldn't have been passed down orally.
I like Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Calvinism/Presbyterianism and Baptism tbh.
Hello, Traditionalist Catholic fedora tipper here
You can't resurrect old traditions from many many years ago, divorced from their original context and language, and pretend that they are the same. Any serious historian of the classics learns ancient languages in order to understand their studies. How can you, an English-language speaking fedora tipper possibly understand any of the subtleties of Mithraism without having three PhD's? It's literally impossible.
Also, it is actually the height of modernity to try to resurrect old traditions and pretend that they are alive. Like, this is literally the most modern thing that you can do. For example, consider how modern day Israelis resurrected the centuries-deceased Hebrew language and created a new zombie language to make it seem legitimate. Or how the modern day Greeks pretend to have continuity with Homer and Socrates despite having been rekt by Ottoman rule for many centuries. Or how the British monarchy attempts to assert its ancientness and grandeur, even though their ceremonies fucking sucked before some serious 19th-century era reforms and even though their royal family is completely consisting of upstart shit-barbarians.
Basically, it is actually extremely modern to try to "find muh traditions" so you should actually stop doing this.
Also, unfortunately, early Christianity was actually extremely, extremely Greek and is descended from the great Indo-Aryan traditions. It makes me sad, but it looks like there were only like 1000-2000 Jewish converts among the early Christians and the 100,000's of Christians were all Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, Syrians, etc. For me, I find it a little troubling that there were so few Jews, but I am sure you will be glad to hear that.
Source on dat?
This notion stems from the belief that myths are lies, and that man is free to write a more suitable one any time.
ty
Jews = Judeans, it's one tribe
They're not Israel, have they blessed many nations and became kings?
Modern jews are imposters, Jerusalem was in Judea not in Israel, but why did they call """their""" country Israel?
I recommend everyone here to watch this series, it's really insightful and well made. The guy knows his Bible for sure.
youtu.be
You disgrace God with this post