Trinity?

Why did I even find this funny?

Q1: Concerning the lack of portrayal of God as Triune in the Tanakh.

A1: Genesis 18 explicitly depicts YHWH as Triune, as Abraham refers to the three visitors by that name. Furthermore, the Messiah's name is YHWH in Jeremiah 23:6. Israel itself, in feminine, is foretold to be identified with the same title in Jeremiah 33:!6, which is consistent with the Christian understanding of the Church as the Body of Christ, but not consistent with the Jewish idea of the male personification of the people of Israel being distinct from the Messiah (as in the Jewish interpretation of Isaiah).

Q1a: Concerning the Three Men not being God.

A1a: That would be extremely incongruent with the style of parataxis which practically defines Biblical prose. There is also the Angel of the Lord, which Christians take to be the Logos, hence God himself (Judges 13:18, Exodus 23:21, Exodus 3:2-4, Genesis 48:15-16–note in this last verse, "angel" and "God" are not separated by "and", indicating they are the same, since Biblical Hebrew certainly stresses the use of "and" where applicable).

source: pastebin.com/u/ConstantineTheSinner

The Orthodox have the best apologetics.

And another from Constantine's pastebin…

Q1: Concerning the Trinity as polytheism, as the doctrine of aspects, Sabellianism, is considered heretical.

A1: The Greek terms used here (οὐσία and ὑπόστασις) are generally translated as “being” and “person”, but can also be translated as “essence” and “existence”, so God is one essence with three distinct (though not separate) existences . According to Hebrews 1:3, the Son is not merely an εἰκών (generally translated as “image”) of God, as man is: He is a χαρακτήρ (which means perfect replication) of God’s ὑποστάσεως; so the Son, being a perfect replication of God’s existence, means HE IS (YHWH is archaic Hebrew for “HE IS”); so God the Father begets God the Son, but does not create him, because that would conflict with the Son being a perfect replica of God’s existence, as God’s existence doesn’t begin or end, and is uncreated; the Son also cannot be a distinct being from God, as God’s essence is predicated upon his existence (ὑπόστασις means the underlying support–I AM). So first of all, ask, “Could God furnish (not create, as God is uncreated) a perfect replica of himself?” Then ask what that would entail, and you get the Trinity. Now of course you might ask, “Why would God do that?” Well, even putting aside the divinity of Christ, the Trinity is fundamental to the Christian conception of God as love, and this explains why: antiochian.org/node/17594 So it's not a matter of God willing the Trinity by motive, it's a matter of God being Trinitarian in nature. This is all beyond really putting into words except in the vaguest of senses, but it makes more sense when factor out spatial and temporal conceptions, though it nonetheless remains a divine mystery.

Why would this be used if the three persons are not separate Gods?

Interesting, this is the first time I have heard of this, would you be able to expand on it or provide a sauce?

Would you be able to clarify what you mean in this part, as i don't understand it fully.

Thanks for the interesting post.

No. El is singular for god. Elohim is plural for gods.
There is no "Elo". In fact, Elohim is written ELHYM. "O" here is vocalisation.
Spirit have no gender. Gender is bodily. God (and angels) use male pronouns because he is Active while Female is passive. If he was in any form female then Eve would be before Adam.
In respect to pure grammatical sense - gods as in "You shall not have other elohim before me".
In respect to God - name that denotes Trinity as well as his great, almighty power.

It's more about usage of plural noun than anything.
It's really easy when you see that "Man and Female will be made one (Echad) flesh". No one is stupid enough to think of it as unitary unless he have very strong anti-trinitarian biases.
I'll try as best as I can.
It basically means that Father who is loving Son, and Son who is loved by Father, both wish that there exist someone who is so loved and who so love. So there is Third Person.
Also, since they give and receive themselves perfectly they do not cease to exist. Why could they in the first place? For what is greater gift and act of love than give God? What is greater than recive God? Thefre there exist Thrid person who is not only subject of love of both but is love between the two.

Sometimes in Hebrew plural pronouns are used as a form of exaltation. The closest thing in English is the royal "we".

Don’t blaspheme God.

Reading about primordial Gnosticism, they said that the concept of the he trinity was only mentioned once, by a new testament follower to explain the belief of body, soul and spirit. Mudt be unimportant tbh

You mean the trinity must be unimportant?

The concept and thought of it. Understanding it's specifics may just be a waste of time compared to everything else there is to understand

Something I truely do not understand is the meaning of begets

Ah yes I see, thanks for the explanation.
I do not understand what you're trying to say here, but I'm not sure it matters

Literally the first two verses of the entire Bible/Torah.
< In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Let me expound on this further:
In the New Testament, Jesus The Son of God takes the title "The Beginning" several times.

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Dagon is elohim. Was Dagon a triune too?(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

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7 And the men of Azotus seeing this kind of plague, said: The ark of the God of Israel shall not stay with us: for his hand is heavy upon us, and upon Dagon our god.

Now repent faggot

we're trinitarians not polytheists

Well acthually.

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That doesn’t explain it man. The spirit is his presence, this is not a distinct person, but a figurative tool to express the nature of God. But to equal it WITH God, and also his Son? The only way to come to that conclusion is by following what tertullian said: taking ideas from pagans instead of the Bible. Trinity is nowhere mentioned in the Bible man.

This website talks in detail about the trinity, have not read it yet.
angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity.html

Look friend. You admited you were a muslim. That places you in the theologically retarded bracket who falls for the highest nonsense. Don't try to lecture about the Trinity after 2000 years of theology. There are three persons in the trinity. All of them are God, and share the same essence. And this is stated by the very people who compiled the Bible, so you can't take one and ignore the other.

Get this in your thick skulls:
THERE IS NO MAJESTIC PLURAL IN HEBREW!

That’s a huge accusation. Also another huge mistake. Trinity 1700 years of theology, not 2000. Why should God be a number? It’s from a mystical experience of Hellenes, that’s where this personification of the Holy Ghost comes from
God is not a number

By the way, here is why I am not a Muslim, I debunked Islam theologically. Muhammad was not a retard; he was inspired by Satan. There is a story about Alexander the Great in it, which is taken from the Alexander romances. Not only that, there’s more to it. The story features Alexander, here portrayed as a virtuous monotheist. He goes until he finds a place where the sun sets at a lake. (symbolic for the union of female and male, sun male, lake female, and t has a deeper meaning I haven’t found yet)
Now the people there are being terrorized: there is a people called Gog and Magog, who are evil. These attack the poor villagers constantly and pillage. What then happens is crucial: Alexander builds an iron wall, to keep them out, between two hills (likely symbolic for the female breasts, Muhammad was very focused on women)
In Ovid, we read that iron was closely associated with Rome. He lived around the time before Christ. So? This means Rome is the wall, separating the good people, Christians of Europe, from the pillaging, evil barbarians on the other side. Rome has been prophecized to be conquered by Muhammad.
Islam is the arch enemy of civilization.

I further assume the antichrist could be Islam, or something related, but I have not researched the book of revelation enough yet, to conclude this.

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Oops I meant of course to say, Muhammad, but in reality Satan, foreshadowed what Islam will become. The arch nemesis of Peace.

Oh wait
I just read Iron is also associated with heaven.. Islam could also be associated with the iron from heaven (Egyptian daggers were made from meteorite iron)

Okay the real reason I’m not a Muslim is because Satan is the father of lies and the Quran says God is the best deceiver, he BTFO himself lol

I don't even know what this means. I guess your mind has to be twisted enough to accept islam to understand these retarded things. It's fun how you mention "Trinity is 1700 years of theology", but ignore the fact that the Bible is younger. The Trinity doesn't come from anywhere. The Trinity is one of the things that defines Christianity. Nobody can be christian without accepting the Tritnity, just like you can't be christian while being an atheist.

Stop coming up with your retarded "theories about how "the Trintiy was create by this person!". There are thousands of years of councils, fathers of the Church and theology. The very people who created a Bible for you. So if one isn't authoritative, the other, too, isn't.

I have not said that Muhammed was a retard, only that muslims are. They know nothing about theology, or about religion. They are eager to randomly accept things as authoritative without understanding their origin or history (in your case, the Bible). They mindlessly latch on something and then try to school others with their fanfictions. That is why you are just a modern day Arian. Expect the same treatment.

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No man the Jews would have a Trinity as their God too if this was the case but they just don’t have one.

The jews are talmudists whose very existence is based on the rejection of Christianity. The religion you call "judaism" was born after Christianity. The Old Testament books you mention are christian books, not jewish ones.

Imagine someone tries to take the first 2 books of the old testament and creates a new religion out of them to oppose Christianity. That religion is just trying to appropiate scriptures.

You know I reject all modern versions of the religion of Abraham, they just argue over how God is and life is not about describing the indescribable it just doesn’t make sense and I now feel stupid to have made this thread, real stupid

“I and the Father are one. Oh and the Holy Spirit, add that 300 years after my resurrection please.”

The religion of Abraham is Christianity. Your fanfic is a modern version of the religion of Abraham.

You were already told that the mystery of the Trinity can't be explained. YOU don't make any sense.

The source that teaches you about the Trinity is the same source that teaches you about Jesus.

And by the way, here you have other fanfictions about Abraham: judaism, islam, mormons, JWs, arians, etc.

By the way, this seems to be what every single muslim says when facing something that goes beyond "ooga booga God": "it just doesn't make any sense". EVERY SINGLE TIME, AND THESE RETARDS THINK THAT THEY ARE IN A POSITION TO ARGUE ABOUT THEOLOGY

Taqiyya, everyone.

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You can’t take pagan ideas and at the same time say paganism is from Satan okay
Jews at the time before the Gospels were written (that don’t contain the trinity but for the sake of argument let’s say they did) did not have any trinity, ever.

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Keep fantasizing about Mohammedans while I am busy following Jesus good one bro

I recognize your writing style from the pagan thread. Please keep your rambling to one post at a time.

You are in no position to talk about pagan ideas. You don't even know what those are. It seems that all heretics do the same: they try to say that all the rightful authority that opposes their fanfic is "pagan" somehow. Jews at the time before the gospels were written did not deny any Trinity, ever.

Your """Christianity""" is as much Christianity as islam or mormonism. You don't follow Jesus. You spit on Jesus, his teachings, his divinity, his Church and pretty much on everyone who taught you about Jesus in the first place. You only follow yourself.

Quran Contradictions: Are Christians Polytheists?

Lmao do you think you are a goddamn oracle? I didn’t post any pagan thread nor participated in one.

Stop arguing about muzzy arguments, please. Even thinking about Mojo and his false religion should be a crime.

Damn it now all I can think about is Mojo Jojo starting Islam as some evil ploy.

The question you asked wasn't to explain the trinity, only to show where it was in the Torah/Old Testament.

Sure it is. It's not explained in the Torah/Old Testament because that was not God's full revelation.
However in the New Testament there are many verses supporting a Triunity.

He wont listen. It's a little bit like the Paul conspiracy. They hate Paul because he closed the door to any new-ageist interpretation of the life and works of Jesus Christ. Here he blames Tertulian for corrupting real Christianity.

Nice job there

Update I just read scripture and believe the trinity is real, God bless

This is still not making sense to me and, no offence, but I think it's because of you're limited English skills. Please feel free to try again, and no worries if not and I appreciate your previous responses anyway

Subtle theology is headache and when you have so little information about particular idea it's even worse.
1.We concluded that there is Father and the Son. We concluded that Father is loving and Son is beloved. We als know that God is love.
2.Now it would fallow that Loving would want to give to Beloved, who would want to recive, all of his Love. But God is Love. So he would want to give all of himself to him.
3.But Father is Father becouse of him being 1)unbegotten himself 2)begotting the Son. So he cannot give to the Son himself.
4. Likewise, he cannot give the Son to the Son.
5. So it is neccesarry that there is Thrid Divine Person who procedes from the Father in difrent way than the Son (by spiritation) so that Father can give it to the Son. And Son can recive this Spirt (who is Spirt because he procedes) fully.
6. More person wuld not make it any mre perfect.