This man has passed away

You can't judge the faith of someone, and you can't know if he repented in his heart.

It's unfortunate that he died without ever becoming a Christian.

RIP Benny

(just joking Cathbros)

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It didn't happen and anyone whos not retarded knows that

Were you in his heart ? Also it was maybe difficult to see signs of his regrets or not with this guy.

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I don't get it, why are so many people hooked on this mindless virtue signalling. The man was not a believer and he had plenty of opportunities to change his mind and inform us of it. He died rejecting God and now he is eternally stuck in that state

That's just a doctrinal point
It can seem so but still
Cathechism of the catholic church 1861 […] However if we can judge that an act is in itself a grave fault, we have to confide the judgment on the people to the justice and to God's mercy.
You can still pray for him.

Well we can't state in a 100.00% sure way, bt that is the same as saying "you don't know if, tomorrow, a piano in flames will fall over you!"

The state of a soul is much more important than a piano in flames.

YoU cAN't KnOW

It's not about "how important" it is. I would say that even the piano in flames is more likely than this monster repenting.

...

I know them well enough, you idiot. There is nothing that indicates that he magically, silently converted to christianity in the last nanosecond before his death. Stop grasping to straws.

YoU cAN't KnOW

I hope he repented and accepted God…we can only pray to God to show mercy on this man's soul.

If you think you know the divine qualities putted in the human soul by God, if you think you've come to a perfect understanding of the mystery of the human soul then you are an arrogant idiot.
Also nothing indicate the contrary, that he didn't regretted. You just admitted you have no clue, you doon't truly know, you just guess. But the grace of Lord don't care about your pathetic guess. Moreover :

YoU cAN't KnOW!!1!11!!1!!!

That isn't our call to make. God can judge the dead. We have other things to do at the moment. I'm not virtue signalling saying that, just returning insufficient data to the query.

Hawking might have repented and converted the second before he died for all we know. Consider the Good Thief. Hopefully he converted. I'm not placing any bets either way.

I don't believe in universal salvation. The majority of humans will deservedly go to Hell for eternity. God knows that's what I deserve, too. God might forgive people who die in a state of invincible ignorance. (Perhaps to some degree.) It seems unlikely for a person to reach adulthood (let alone old age) in the West without properly hearing the Gospel at least once, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility entirely. I have no clue if Hawking ever heard the Gospel and rejected it. The only writings I've read from him have been popular science books that don't discuss religion.

Anyway I'm more afraid for my own soul than Hawking's. His trial is at least over now, whatever the verdict.

RIP Pope Benedict

We can't know. I don't even know what I had for breakfast last Friday. The fate of particular souls is a mystery known to God and not to us, so mercifully their judgment is God's job not ours. We lack adequate knowledge and reasoning.

stay mad boy.

I’m not saying you’re wrong but do you have some proof

it's a stairway to heaven, stephen, sorry, but there's no ramp

I know that there is nothing that indicatges that he had any sudden conversion just before dying. HE has been a monster his entire life. He has shown no signs of repentance or accepting God's grace. Stop sperging about semantics with your pathetic quotes of the cathechism because I used the word "magically". As I had said, your defense is that it is "theoretically possible" that he converted. It is also theoretically possible that a piano in flames will fall on me the moment I get out of my house.

I don't claim to know with dogmatic certainty. I claim that I have no reason to not to assume he hasn'tdamned himself. I have not judged. However, you seem insistent in judging him as saved. I have enough knowledge and reasoning to determine that this sudden conversion is more or less as likely as the burning piano falling on me: I also can't really know with certainty that the piano won't fall on me, only God knows.

Two points
and we have examples of this through history, even in the gospel with the good thief. Not the same for piano in flames. It's normal to wish someone to die a christian, all we want his him to be saved, why does it make you this mad ?
Now you have nothing, you just don't believe he converted. You can believe it, but you can't be sure about it, let God judge the soul.

Yes, and I'm pretty sure we also have examples of pianos falling on people. And I'm pretty sure I can find things that are even more absurd that pianos in flames falling on people. One thing is what I wish. Another thing is being delusional and losing contact with reality.

It makes me mad that you try to push your psychosis with your "theoretical possibilities". Of course I don't believe he converted, just like I believe that no piano will fall on me when I leave the building. I also can't be sure about it. I can't be sure that my mother will not suddenly come and slaughter me with a chainsaw while wearing 10 party hats. I can't be really "sure", and only God knows what will happen.

Also, by the way, if one example it is known about it, it is because those people did something that made their conversion known. Which isn't the case. The good thief showed his repentance. Not the same for this case.

God's grace is not like a physical event, bound to the laws of probability like for your example. So your comparison is absurd. You can't be sure about it because you don't know the movement of a soul. You don't know someone conscience. It's not a probability problem, it's not like this never when we talk about salvation. For the piano you think about probability, for the soul about grace.
Two logics that can't be compared. Do you understand ?
Sou can't be sure, and you can't say "there will be no rest for his soul", talking about the possibility he repented and the CCC 1861 you didin't responded to.

I don't judge him as saved. I don't judge him at all.

You shouldnt assume anything.

Deathbed conversions are far, far more common than you think.

People call this man smart

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I hope that he will convert while in purgatory.

Also I should note that in the past I had indeed judged certain people who committed suicide as damned. The one that comes to mind is David Foster Wallace, and certain other writers. I retract that judgement. Suicide is a mortal sin, but the judgement of the souls who commit that sin is up to God.

I don't judge him. That is some retarded thing you made up in your mind to have something to attack me with: slander. Assuming is not judging. Stop using the word "judging" if you don't know what it means. And you obviously don't know what it means.

So I can assume whatever I want. There is nothing wrong with that. Just like you, hypocrite, assume that you are talking with a real person right now a not a robot. You can't be completely sure you aren't talking with a robot! Only God knows!

Do you know why you think deathbed conversions are common? Because you have heard stories about them. And do you know why there are stories about them? Because there are witnesses to the conversions, because people convert and make their conversion public, they talk about it. They don't convert in the last nanosecond of their lives.

That is not how purgatory works

Surprise surprise, you are just projecting.

Is it you who wrote these words?

Can you address anything I have said or not?

You mean libel. We're communicating in writing, not speech. I haven't libeled you. Even if I'm mistaken, your personal reputation is not at stake here, as you're anonymous.

There's no reason for you to use insulting words like "retarded." I'm sorry if I made you angry, though obviously this is a can so you're probably using that language casually.

If you look back to the post you responded to, I told you that you shouldn't "assume."

I know what the word "judging" means. I also know what the word "assuming" means. I'm a native speaker of English and these are commonplace words. You're engaging in a poor attempt at semantics as a form of backpedaling from your original claim.

The thing that you're assuming is the eternal fate of another human being's soul. Declaring the eternal state of another's soul is not our place. The problem isn't that you're assuming. It's what you're assuming. You can call me a hypocrite but I'm not assuming any particular soul's damnation, so your equating our assumptions would be a false equivalence, so your charge of hypocrisy would just be empty rhetoric.

I doubt that we've heard about every deathbed conversion that has ever happened. Not everyone who dies is a celebrity. If the deathbed conversions we've heard about are common, then it stands to reason that the deathbed conversions that we haven't heard about are still more common than the ones that we have heard about, since many people die alone or in a state incapable of communication, or the dead party is unremarkable and the fact of their conversion is not a matter of public record or interest. It certainly does not make sense to argue that conversions don't happen unless reported.

Your hyperbole is tiresome but even at your most hyperbolic you still haven't discounted the possibility that you seek to. Yes, a person absolutely can convert in the last moment of his or her life. Even if we never hear about it, it still happened regardless. We don't know everything, and events occur outside of our knowledge.

I simply recognize that you've made an error that I myself once made and am familiar with and I'm trying to help you avoid making the same mistake. Even if I'm wrong in my assessment of your predicament you can at least appreciate that I'm not writing to you out of malice.

I'll take that as a yes. Your own words stand for what they are.

So this is your excuse after I point out how you lie about me judging and condemning others? Semantics about how it is ackchually libel? And how it doesn't count because the context is reduced to a thread?

There is a reason for me to use those words: you made up retarded things, so I use the appropiate adjectives. Don't get mad when someone points out the quality of your lies

And I told you that there is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't assume, just like you assume you are talking to a real person and I assume no piano will fall on me, even though only God knows.

You clearly don't, since I have not declared that I am the one to decide who gets to Hell or to Heaven. I have not declared to have dogmatic knowledge with complete certainty.

It is you who engages in semantics, since in order to mindlessly prevent my common sense assumptions, you pretend they are the same as "judging", switching the word so that you can condemn it

Which I can do

I do not declare anything. That seems to be a fantasy of yours

What I'm assuming is completely normal. There is nothing special about it. In your theological bankrupy you pretend there is, but there is not. I call you a simpleton. There is nothing special about assuming someone goes to Hell or Heaven when I have no reason to think otherwise.

I don't think you get the simple, easy to understand point. It doesn't matter if I have personally ehard of them. Any known deathbed conversion was made public by the one who converted. This is not the case. You literally can't give any example of conversion by someone with absolutely 0 signs of the conversion. So don't try to use examples you don't have. You don't have a single example of conversion with nobody knowing and no signs. Otherwise, if you had it, it would be because there was communication of the conversion and signs.

When your point is that "his conversion is not unlikely because there are known examples", the fact that there are no examples does matter.

And what I say is not really a hyperbole. You are talking about a case where someone converted in the very last moment of his life, without even communicating anyone his conversion, nor leaving any message, nor any evidence that there was a conversion.

Sure, we don't know everything, just like I don't know that the piano in flames will not fall on me.

So in your attack on common sense you try to make two points: first, that I can't make assumptions because we don't know everything, but that would apply to literally every single thing in our lives.

Second, that it is immoral to assume that someone went to heaven or hell. There is nothing that indicates this to be the case. I don't declare, I don't judge. There is just no reason to believe that this person did not go to Hell. Now you can find this as sad as you want, but denying it is to be insane, while a sane person acknowledges it, and accepts that unless there is some sudden revelation, there is no reason to not to assume he is in Hell.

I did not say them, but even then, they are just a way of lamenting something that there is no reason to doubt.

Thank you for the conversation.

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underrated comment right here, folks

Absolutely savage.

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