If Japan hadn't attacked pearl harbor would the US have stayed isolationist

He went so far as to say the attack on Pearl Harbor was a complete surprise when it wasn't, and information was withheld to make losses more severe. That crippled bastard fucked us over.

If you really want to blame someone, blame Grover Cleveland for involving us in Hawaii, or William McKinley for involving the US in war with Spain. Or hell, depending on how far you want to go with this, blame William Seward for buying Alaska, or Thomas Jefferson for making the Louisiana Purchase.

All defensible actions under the Monroe Doctrine and justifiable by Manifest Destiny, however. Hawaii is a little shaky in that regard though.

Nah, probably would have still shipped materials to the USSR, leading to Hitler's buttrage and declaration of war. Maybe Japan gets out of it in better shape.

Memes AND Conservationism.

Hawaii was a strict and obvious security purchase. It was either that or let the Brits have it. And that would have been just a little too far.

I'm given to understand that the United States just wasn't getting involved in the war, and had comparatively permissive immigration policies before and between the World Wars, and retained fairly open trade policies even after the World Wars. If this is the case, this suggests that United States' foreign policy would be more accurately described as "non-interventionist", rather than "isolationist", as isolationism indicates a concentrated effort to separate one's nation from the outside world in terms of economic, population, and cultural exchange. I got the same public school history lectures as everyone else, but in retrospect the idea that the US was isolationist seems suspect, based at least on my current understanding of the policies at the time.

Hell no, if Japan hadn't have attacked Pearl Harbor then someone would've just set up another Lusitania incident.

That's the meme. No one will criticize the man because "le based nature tough guy, speak softly and carry big dicks XDDD"

Bonus pic for evidence.

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real talk, are you le sourkraut mutt spammer?
Just wondering why all of you seem to come from Germany or if it's still just you

Eh, I’d say national parks and the pure food and drug act counterbalance the Roosevelt corollary. Sort of like how old lefties who think Richard Nixon is the devil at least admit that the Environmental Protection Agency and the policy of Detente were still good.

Doesn't seem horrible on the surface, but do you really want control over the most beautiful of our natural areas in the hands of leftist bureaucrats? Take a page from the Goy Scouts, nature preserves are far better-run when they're in the hands of private nonprofits.

Literally the precursor to the FDA, and with it the granting of monopolies to large companies through regulatory capture. Nothing good came out of the Progressive Era, and Theodore Roosevelt is no exception.

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I'm just confused as to why we these threads haven't been merged.

Take your meds,

The us provoked pearl harbour
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Orange
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_note

Honestly, what a guy.

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They didn't you hobgoblin, the kikes faked it, they told your cumskin angloscum ancestors to sink their own ship as an excuse to human wave the now extinct white americans against the germans.
Daily reminder that anglos are no different than kikes and, thus, even pure-breed burgers must die.

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The US had designed a detailed plan with a number of measures to provoke Japan into hostilities. They implemented them one by one, and it appeared the plan was successful.

...

Yeah, the US also provoked that war with Canada because of plan red.
Also

almost like i had a second link which is what provoked pearl harbour

attack the nationalists who attacked japanese settlements in shanghai*
liberate indochina from france with help from locals*
liberate myanmar from britain with help from locals*
liberate indonesia from holland with help from locals*
good anglo

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This.

You are going emotional and try to put judgement on countries actions like you in court or something.

US went on pass of confrontation with Japan and you don't need 170IQ to figure out that may lead to war. War? Fine. Bu then don't call yourself isolationists. Also US with one hand sanctioned Japan but with another hand didn't make efforts to increase operational readiness of the military and dismissed sings of Japanese coming strike. Its like US were asking for such strike (and they did) because its perfect excuse to break isolationists political standing).

If it was "liberation" with help from the locals, then how come you had to occupy all the countries and fight shit tonnes of resistance groups like the Viet-Minh and the AFO?

Sure lad.

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If you liberated Indonesia from eurocucks how comes they are still muslim?

I guess only an anglo believes in a liberation of colonies and then not doing anything in order to lose his empire, whiteness and become a totalitarian shithole where pakis rape kids while police beats up parents who have the audacity to not want their kids raped (^:

wow why would a pro china pro communist group hate japan
who
we had the burmese, javanese, wang jingwei, taiwanese, korean and filipinos fight along side us in ww2 willingly
siam even allied themselves with us
imagine being so retarded you equate what is basically telling a country you will go to war with them as a simple piece of paper
Tojo never wanted to attack pearl harbour but he was forced, his wife's diary confirms that

"I believe the Great Asian War should have been fought by Indonesians for the independence. If we had arms, we would have fought against Dutch, but Japan did for us. It was such an extraordinary war."
- Mohammad Natsir, the former prime minister, 1946

"It was thanks to Japan that all nations of Asia gained independence. For Mother Japan, it was a difficult birth which resulted in much suffering, yet her children are growing up quickly to be healthy and strong. Who was it that enabled the citizens of the nations of Southeast Asia to gain equal status alongside the United States and Britain today? It is because Japan, who acted like a mother to us all, carried out acts of benevolence towards us and performed feats of self-sacrifice. December 8th is the day when Mother Japan – who taught us this important lesson – laid her life on the line for us, after making a momentous decision and risking her own well-being for our sake. Furthermore, August 15th is the day when our beloved and revered mother was frail and ailing. Neither of these two days should ever be forgotten."
- Kukrit Pramoj, the former and the first civilian prime minister in Thailand, 1973
​
"All South East Asian nation had overcame great challenges and succeeded. We no longer need to suffer from the inferior complex we once had for centuries. We now believe we had proven our powers, which are given from the Japan's power. If Japan didn't show us what we could, the world today would look different. The north would have been richer, while the south would be even poorer. The European impelialists in the north would have been colonizing the world forever."
- Mahathir bin Mohamad, the current prime minister of Malaysia, 1992

blame holland for keep fighting, if they didnt the javanese would have had control

wot. The Viet Minh fought the japs because they wanted independence, nothing more, they absolutely despised the Chinks and completely allied themselves with the Russians during the Sino-Soviet split as a result. Ho Chi Minh supported the French return in 1946 simply to keep the chinks out.

Burmese anti-Jap resistance group

No? It was a threat of further economic sanctions at most, it didn't mention war or military action at all..

And even if the note was a threat of war, which it wasn't, you could've I dunno, maybe stopped attacking everyone like America asked?

Yeah, just ignore people like Sutan Sjahrir and Amir Sjarifuddin, who were even supported somewhat by puppets or collaborators like Sukarno.
Japan's invasions removed the colonial powers, and then the allies removed the Japanese occupiers but were too bankrupt to re-colonise, leading to independence in many nations, but that doesn't mean that it was Japan's goal or aim. Japan had no intention to liberate and give independence to all of the countries it was invading, it just happened as a by-product of Japan getting BTFO.

They've always been hajis. The muds didn't just go westward to wreck shit, they also went east too.

Viet minh was founded in china and reformed into the ICP
thats the point
never heard of them, the burmese helped us fight you
no it wasnt
yes lets pull out of manchuko and let them be ruled by the chinese instead of their independence, lets allow the KMT to slaughter japanese settlers in china
how are any of those people puppets
we literally gave manchuko an emperor

Your students aren't "we", ESL-sensei.

I believe these (1) and done posts are botposts for the sake of survey. Maybe some nsa branch is tasked with monitoring the evul natzi oldrait websites?

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Let me know once war crime tribunals require evidence for conviction and then we can discuss the subject.

my camera is bad
kanji means great japan imperial rule assistance association member badge and is from the taisei yokusankai

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Nipanon, it was a bad idea to attack the US no matter what they did. They were years ahead of you and had a much more powerful military.
Imagine if we went up against the US today? We'd get fucking crushed.

What was the alternative?
The US would've attacked us, that was the Chinese strategy, to lie about Nanjing to get the US involved because they knew they could not win alone.

Not attacking the most powerful country on Earth? They wouldn't have gotten involved had you not attacked them. Do you really think they gave a fuck what the Chinese told them?

I know you guys are sensitive over WW2, but for the love of god stop acting like you were blameless victims.

and let them attack us?
thats not true
yes they did which is why they imposed sanctions and why americans were in nanjing
a us diplomat even went to nanjing
what do you think about germany?

get nuked fagit

That worked really well for germany, so well that Americans dressed up as Germans and attacked themselves.

Get turned into brazil, mutt.

They put sanctions on Japan because it was invading other countries.

We weren't blameless in the war at all, no matter what NEETSocs will claim.

If we did not invade Poland, Hitler would have been able to hold some kind of peace with the rest of Europe and the NSDAP might even still exist as a legitimate party.

so america did care
that also doesnt explain why they sent diplomats to nanjing

Not enough to invade, what did you think the result of bombing the US would be anyway? Did Japan think America would sit there and take it up the ass? You cannot twist this into a logic process where Pearl Harbor made tactical sense, it was almost entirely Japanese hubris.

except there was the hull note
obviously war with them, but war was inevitable

I don't know, but attacking them certainly wasn't a good idea.
Not even Hitler was suicidal enough do that, and taking into account Germany's military was much better than yours.

so there was no alternative
if you know you are going to have to eventually fight a country why not use surprise to your advantage

What about the alternative of just not declaring war on one of the most powerful nations in the world?

and let them declare war on us?

...

You seriously overestimate how much the US cared about Japan.
Diplomats aren't a rare and valuable resource. The US has thousands of them and they're sent out to do things all the time.

they were

And how are you sure of that?

orange plan and hull note

yeah they clearly didnt care at all which is why the orange plan and the hull note exists

The US has war plans against pretty much every country on earth, doesn't mean they're actually going to invade them. Look up the list of US colour-coded war plans.

The Hull note wasn't a declaration of war, it wasn't even an ultimatum either, when Japan offered a counteroffer to the Hull plan, the US wrote up their own counteroffer to said counteroffer and was about to send it, but Japanese war plans against the US were leaked. so they cancelled it.

The US would have pandered to Japan and given you free fuel, but you sperged out and attacked them instead, leading to you getting nuked. Great going.

yeah lets just withdraw our troops
tojo himself never wanted to attack the us, he was forced

Withdrawing troops is a better alternative to having your entire country destroyed militarily, economically and culturally as well as being irradiated.

By what?

by the hull note
it was more than just withdrawing troops it basically meant the death of japan
this is why your people surrendered
-Douglas McArthur
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanaka_Memorial
Roosevelt himself has wished for "extermination of the Japanese"

Is that true? FDR sounds like one fucking evil son of bitch.

yes its true, he had a bias against japan and was pro china
he said this about the chinese

That's one cucky son of a bitch.

This is much better considering nuances if US internal politics. But japs could not comprehend Republic. US had extremely strong isolationist movement prior WWII. Bad plays of warmongers could means that they would lose popularity, elections and war goes away.

After Pearl Harbor this was not an option, japs burned bridges behind them.

Ignore burgers even at the cost of casualties, run as preferable option for Navy (BTW run away is staple WWII naval strategy) and only attack them close to Japanese waters after they move first. Play victim. Go for brits is you must but continue to declare over and over that US is not an enemy of Japan, even if US declares war and attacks Jap warships. This is the message for US voters.

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This.

do you really think americans of all people would do something about their president going to war with a country?
they have done it so many other times and no one cares, both parties do it too
because warmongering has been something americans are against
so let us be attacked by america and not fight back?
us voters always vote for the same party, both parties are puppets of judea

You guys are basically island Koreans.

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Of course they do. US was divided 50 - 50 on interventionism topic. But you can't comprehend that President is not God Emperor (understandable as you didn't have President, modern times doesn't count as Japan is occupied nation since WWII and its history is halted)

And Japans completely defeated US isolationism with single murder stroke.

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...

t.retarded boomer mutt

Ach cucki, du Scheiße. Nie wirst du ein Ami sein, NIE!

60% of mutt soldiers were drafted. And there is literally nothing they could do against Lend Lease, which will come eventually in any scenario posted here.

ni hao チャンコロ

and you think those people would have done anything?
look at how many americans want to get rid of trump
but they cant do anything as they dont have the power
the ones with the power wanted the war

Really? look how all his initiatives are shot down. He cant even stop Mexicans from crossing the borders and soon all his staff will face "subpoena cannon" and then jail for treason. Biggest enemy of US are Americans themselves.

Now compare this to support of Bush warmongering initiatives after 911 false flag.

Trump is being cockblocked by the deep state (and his own idiocy and narcissism). If the same deep state wanted to end immigration from there they could set up the necessary policies, or at least stop the president (whoever he might be at the time) from letting any more of them in.

yet he is still the president
that just helps my point, the americans didnt do anything about bush or obama

Whose presidency goes nowhere. America is divided and therefore weak. Pearl Harbor and 911 were acts which united America.

You're joking right? It was dead before that, it died with the USS Maine.

Hopefully, Huey Long and Monsignor Charles Coughlin would be elected President and Vice-President. Every man would be made a king, the Fed would be destroyed, and we would have an actually neutral, if not somewhat Axis-aligned, America.

How is having a military base in the south pacific isolationist?