Considering Stalin was shooting everyone competent in the Soviet Union before the German invasion...

This, throw the Allies off the north africa and middle east first, help Mussolini modernize army and industry and try to link with Iran instead of zergrushing CCCP in '41

You also have to remember that today pretty much everyone agrees Stalin didn't die of natural causes.
If there wasn't the war that forced that banded commies leadership and the country together it's entirely possible he would have been assassinated much earlier on and that the pwoer strugle may have collapsed the soviet union once again.
Communist regime never lasted that long. The USSR is the only one that did but how much of it was because of the war?

I've always maintained that:

1. Soviets weren't getting ready to invade Germany. Their troop dispersal and lack of logistics makes that plain. They were just massing troops at what they thought would be a hot borderlands.

2. Even if they were to invade the people in charge would be the same people who led them in Finland, and their equipment and tech levels were garbage. They only had a few hundred T-34s because their production competed with BT and other obsolete (but favored) vehicles. So imagine the troops that got slaughtered in Finland attacking what is essentially 100x tougher opponent. What would happen? They'd go about 100km into German land, get BTFO, and the Soviets would develop a permanent inferiority complex. They might never again think they could defeat Germans, and might not try for a long ass time. The problem with Barbarossa is that such equations and psychologies are all out the window when someone threatens you with extinction, then you fight even if you know you'll lose.

3. Germany attacking the Soviets actually did them a favor, because in the first attack Germany literally killed all of the dumb commietard Soviet leaders and soldiers. Also they wrecked most of the obsolete vehicles, so there was no longer any need to tie up production lines to make spare parts for something as ridiculous as a T-28. With production lines clear and retarded soldiers dead, Soviets were free to produce tens of thousands of more modern vehicle and recruit a shitload of fresh soldiers with new ideas who were free to populate the now empty rank structure. Guys like Zhukov, Konev and Vatutin wouldn't have been permitted to command anything serious before Germany killed all the communist retard generals in Barbarossa.

typical canadian thinking: "If the enemy kills you, you win"

Merci pour contribution

Ans here's vid related. Their whole rearmament program was deeply flawed from the very first moment, because the nazis wanted to appease both the industrialists and the workers by dispersing their industrial efforts in every possible way.
Also, read these:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oster_conspiracy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spark_(1940)
The army leadership was really against Hitler and co. I wonder if he would have been better off letting Röhm absord the armed forces into the SA, and only then getting rid of him and his buddies. The Reichswehr only had some 100 000 soldiers, and they didn't have enough officers after they turned it into the Wehrmacht and started expanding its size anyway.

Another thing to consider is whether the Soviets would have gotten Lend-lease in the event that they invaded Germany (although I think it's fair to say that it's unlikely they would have invaded. The Party were busy enough holding on to power and making sure that communist policies didn't do what they usually do to countries to worry about invading). The Eternal FDR would likely have pushed it through in the end, but it might have been delayed a while, which would hurt the Soviets even more.

Cuba begs to differ.

No, the SA had to go. You need a different kind of people to get in to power than you need to stay in power.
For the getting in to power part, you need influencers and knuckleheads and you take what you can get. When you're in power, you need competent people who can run things for you and you need to dispatch those that you just used as stepping stones, as they'll only get in your way because they have different ideas about how things need to happen or where you should go.

This is why Hitler had to disband the SA, as it would only have come back to hinder him in getting things done. The SS was an organization that was far more formed by the assumption that they had a state backing them, which the SA just did not have.
Leaving the Wehrmacht intact wasn't that bad of an idea either, as it allowed for seperation of fanatics in to the SS and regular soldiers in the Wehrmacht. You get a politically unquestioning force that you can use to guard concentration camps, which means you won't have to deal with Wehrmacht soldiers possibly rebelling, as they might have not looked too kindly upon the camps.

>(((Soviets))) lost once in 1920 and gave up on spreading communism to the west forever
Yeah I wish.

It's less a matter of giving up and more one of priorities. When your country is halfway through falling apart the leadership is more focused on consolidation and keeping their hold on power than some ideological crusade. And their actions before and after the war suggest that the USSR was more interested in this conservative stance of building up what they have rather than ideological expansionism. They signed the Molotov Pact with Hitler, something the commies in America thought would never happen because it was a betrayal of commie principles. After the war, they only formed the Warsaw Pact in reaction to NATO.

Fair enough, after all it's one country when all the neighboring countries cease to exist.

But the SA wasn't disbanded, it was an organization with hundreds of thousands members, and only 300 members of the top brass were executed during the Night of the Long Knives. The organization lived on, and it was quite active. They just didn't get any support from the élite of the nazi party, and so they were reduced to an organization that helped training new recruits. Indeed, they even had naval and aerial training units, and they were actively involved in the training of the Volksturm at the end of the war. They did have something analogous to the Waffen-SS in the form of the Feldherrnhalle, but that formation was a proper part of the army as a divison.
As for the SS, it wasn't a replacement of the SA, because at first it had much tougher requirements for its recruits. And in the 30s it was more like a politicized gendarmerie with very f(l)ashy uniforms, as they had one branch that ran the camps, an other one that was supposed to be a proper armed force to put down a rebellion, and lastly the Allgemeine SS that was mostly an overglorified organization for political activists. That Himmler in his endless wisdom decided to form a parallel army in the form of the Waffen-SS was both an unnecessary drag on logistics and an unnecessary source of conflict with the Wehrmacht. Both of them could have been avoided if they just told all officers of the Reichswehr to either dress up in a brown uniform or get a new job if they don't like the new order.

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Howdy Zig Forumsucks!
Yet again you theorycraft how stupid Europe's greatest Son was as a pass time in leu of doing nothing. His only mistake was kindness both to kikes and the English. He was sadly a man of peace at heart, who nonetheless almost won against the entire world against him.
To those few among you genuinely interested in disproving Soviets were unprepared meme here is the proof:
youtu.be/oET1WaG5sFk
Now go watch TGSNT.

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Like when he let a rothschild go free unharmed?

Hi nu-Zig Forums

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Unlikely. The reason that Stalin didn't invade sooner is because he knew that his forces were unprepared due to the complete restructuring of the soviet armed forces. They had to learn as they went. If anything, they would have gotten to Berlin even faster and with a more concentrated number, would have suffered less casualties. The one lesson from WW2 is that Germany never had any hope of winning.

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The (Soviets) would have a technological advantage but a worse off military leadership, not the Germans.

The Soviets would have had a better than '41 leadership. Doctrine hadn't been completely ironed out. And yes, the soviets were far more mechanized than the Germans, who relied on horse-drawn cars for transports. Waiting for invasion would have been a faster defeat for the Germans, as training cycles would have given the Soviets time to unify doctrine, train proper officers and run exercises. You also have to consider that the Soviets would be able to mass forces like the Germans did, and punch straight through, in effect, maximizing their numbers advantage.

Stalin was shooting the incompetent ones, actually.

How they would have better leadership? I wonder about this punch through as well since they do not have the logistics to sustain it.

And threatening Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, etc. with conquest if they didn't agree to a negotiated occupation.
And occupying half of Poland.
And incrementally conquering Finland (they only stopped where they did because they had to divert forces elsewhere).
And invading Germany to eliminate the threat of a fascist government and support German communists.

All communist leaders that managed to gain absolute power over their country were able to do so because they were brutal, violent imperialists or the stooges of brutal, violent imperialists.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

Out of those, only the 1920 invasion of Poland was legit dangerous.

The invasion of Finland and the occupation of the Baltics were under the guise of "approval" of the Nazi by Molotov-Ribbentrov pacts.

Apologists usually say Stalin just wanted to get back the lands lost by the Russian Empire. Which is apparently fine.

Communist wanted to spread the revolution to the rest of the planet. They supported communist revolutions in other countries like Spain, Germany, Finland, and Poland.

P.S. Well they underestimated Finns, sure.

Stalin was a good boy, he dindu nothing

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Oh look, nu/pol/ hitler cultist brigade has arrived

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They wouldnt have done that if not the g*rmans green lighting it with Ribbentrop - Molotov

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Nobody says it's okay but the germans.

The germans actually gave them the A-Okay with the Molotov-Ribbentrov pact.

Where were the reinforcement of Finland by the nazis? Oh wait, none.

After Stalin took over they didnt

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It's in what makes it so heinous, that the supposed "defenders of Europe" collaborate with the Soviet.

Nazi germany would have done much better if it's someone else's leadership because Adolf Hitler turned out to be an opportunist after 1933.

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With growing soviet industrial output and reorganisation of soviet army that was taking place when they invaded every delay would deminish germans chances of success.

Well, the T34m would have seen mass production, and it was everything good about the T34, wtih all of the weaknesses patched.

And Stalin had no intention of invading Nazi Europe. None. Was he preparing for war against Europe, and maybe Nazi Germany? Yes. But then Italy sided with the Germans, France fell, and the rest of Central and Southern Europe also sided with Germany.

Benito was the most hardcore about pre-emptively invading Germany and putting back into the place Versaiiles did. He was also one the reasons Italian Radar never got off the ground.

Nah, Stalin would have sat back and built up some more and traded with Nazi Europe some more. Resources for tech. Hell, if asked, he might have assisted the Nazis outright and thrown his forces into the fray in Turkey and the Middle East.

Nope, and wouldn't have needed most of it. Aside from the fuckloads of trucks and spare trains, most of Lend Lease was to prevent the USSR from collapsing due to the damage done by Barbarossa and Case Blue.

Tons of high quality rolled steel, seeds for farming because the Soviets were down to eating their own seed crops, tons of spam, Aviation fuel so their planes could fly, etc etc, mostly existed to alleviate the damage done by the invasion. Without Lend Lease, everything 6 months out from Stalingrad is highly questionable.

You mean the one who wanted genocided the largest block of the Aryan race, the Slavs, who themselves had significant Nordic and Germanic ancestry? You mean the guy who prioritized yet another brother war over securing the Mediterranean and reclaiming the Lost Lands of North Africa and the Middle East? You mean the one that openly fawned over Arabs and Arabcized Persians? The one that allied with the Japanese, the most useless Axis power in the war, that pissed away their navy in dumbass campaigns instead of blockading the USSR in Vladisvostok?

That guy?

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Says the Pole though.

Yes goyim. One of the main hobby of the Aryan Race is drinking yourself to death, and when you are taxed for alchohol ownership just to prevent that, you brew moonshine so you can continue to drink to death. And when you achieve glorious victory in modern war, you brew literal methanol and drink to death, despite examples of other dead drunk Aryans, who died from the same shoddy methanol moonshine earlier. Baste. Very Aryan.

I remain skeptical of this. Barbarossa was damaging, yes, but communist policies aren't exactly known for stimulating productivity; these are the same people who caused a famine on some of the most fertile land in the world, after all. Because of this, it isn't hard for me to believe that even without the damage of Barbarossa, the Soviets would have run into non-trivial issues without US gibs.

Nice D&C Hans. Also,

nu/pol/ or le_ZOGnald?

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You won't catch me claiming the Poles were smart at politics. They invented the Prussian method of "ARMY SMASH! BOW BEFORE MY BOOTS" and nothing else, mixed with losing wars.

Stalin turned the place into a massive slave camp, and forced people to put in honest's days work with the threat of violence. Lenin was similar, with his whole "Don't work, don't eat" ethos. Its only afterwards that they started having problems, closing down gulags and refusing to fire people, etc etc etc.
This is a dumb myth that needs to die. The Ukraine is about as temperate as Chicago, and the rest of that latitude of the USSR was nearly as bad or worse. Even worse is transporting all that food. It is not even close to one of the most fertile areas on the planet. Not even top four.

India's North East kicks the shit out of it, as does South East Asia in general, then the two rivers of China with the Yellow river being very fertile, then America's Mississippi which gets bonus point for ease of movement and thus trade.

The Ukraine is way the fuck down that list. Kazahkstan even further.

Yes? Yes it was until caffeine and tobbaco took over, and remained so for a very long time.

Yeah

I see where you're coming from, but there's far more to economics than just getting bodies into factories and making sure they're working. Just as important are resource allocation, levels and type (e.g. vertical or horizontal) of integration, and countless other factors. And in an economy, they only way to accurately and efficiently obtain all of this information and determine where, how, and what to produce is through a price system. The Soviets had no price system on the production side of things and their price system on the consumer side was so over-regulated, it couldn't provide information with any degree of accuracy. It's telling that, after the war, the USSR was relying on copying the prices in Western markets for their own economy to function. So even if we take it as a given that Stalin had the skilled labor and productive capital required for production, because of the economic realities in the USSR that doesn't translate into productivity.

I'm not an agorist, so there's only so much that I can intelligently say on this subject, but as I understand it the Ukraine's fertility is less a product of its latitude and more a product of its soil; Ukraine contains more than a third of black soil in the world. But whether or not it's the "most" fertile, or even in the top five, the point I was making is the same: it was still a comparatively fertile region and a major grain exporter, in which the Soviets managed to cause a famine.

Slavs arent w*ite
Poles are proud negroes of europe

Here we see the fake kraut trying to D&C and prop up muh anti-ruskie propaganda.

?

Meant "agronomist," as in cropfag, my bad.

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But I thought you are muh based hwite people?!

That one is supposedly cuck pole.

Cuba is an exception because the US left and the CCC are working together making so much more easy to control the island: everyone unhappy just fuck off the US (that are at swimming distance), where people that ARE ON CASTRO SIDE tell to the poor Cuban rapefugees they will help them find a job in their estates and remember to vote for them. It's a win/win deal creating a long sustainability system. North Korea is the same, with China and Russia making damn sure the whole thing doesn't collapse every-time it would have.
Everywhere else they either show communism lip service and are capitalists or the countries have completely collapsed (and re-became capitalists).
If the war hadn't come it's very likely the soviet union crash could have happened in the 50's.
The reason why Stalin was putting tens of millions in jail (entire peoples) and shooting everyone looking at him side-way wasn't because the country was super stable…

Cuba always had private property so it is not communism in the first place.

Wow rude

Depends. If the USSR was going it alone it'd be a major rape for the Germans probably leading to Stalin either getting overthrown or purging everyone again out of paranoia. If the USA and UK were still handling Soviet logistics then they'd win eventually. However Germany was hugely reliant on the Soviets for raw materials and food (grain particularly) to the point they'd have had an easier time simply cutting deliveries and forcing Germany's hand.

Or they could have threatened with an invasion of Rumania.

His mistake was assuming his ~20 year old very low-level tactical experience meant he had anything at all to contribute on the strategic level. By all accounts his frontline service was both brave and competent but that didn't qualify him to micromanage the military affairs of an entire nation. Also it is true that he cared too much about the common soldier, industrial wars are won by cold analysis of the numbers and the willingness to sacrifice thousands of lives if the maths demands it.

The best use of the jews would have been convincing them that willing service to the fatherland during the war would prove their loyalty for after the war. That can be factory work, work on research the USA in particular benefited a lot from Germany throwing out a ton of university-educated jews pre-war, they were overrepresented there in the first place for many reasons or even frontline service in segregated and disposable battalions on the Eastern Front. Once you win you can do whatever you want with them and this has the nice benefit that if you lose nobody can claim you didn't give them a 'fair' chance to prove themselves even if you never intended to follow through on your promises i.e. use the exact same bullshit-promises-to-the-natives tactics the British Empire was so fond of. Same thing should have been done with the various slavic nationalist movements promising independence instead to at the very least keep them from joining up with the partisans.

Sure, they'd already got some Romanian territory by doing so previously. Cutting deliveries is still easier since it puts a serious time limit on an effective German response.

I mean Hitler himself says in that video that the soviets threatened them with that. Of course it most likely was just posing to scare them away, but it had the exact opposite effect.

It was certainly his opinion that they were implicitly threatening to do so if he did not accept their demands for more influence in the Balkans and elsewhere, though in reality the Soviets actually fulfilled everything they promised down to the letter through 1941. That said anyone with half a brain could see that it was a card they'd play sooner or later.

wut

Where does this meme come from?
He assisted in forming the NDH, and also allied with the Chetniks fun fact, both the NDH, Italy and Germany helped the Chetniks, and after they realized they couldn't golddigger their way to a Greater Serbia through the Axis, they decided to go to the Soviet Union for help, and fought against the Germans. Funny how the serbs always say that they were doing everything to fight communism, innit?, then he explicitly told Pavelić that the Balkans could be un-fucked if we kicked the serbs out and called them faggots for fifty years straight. In turn, we apparently got too hardcore for Hitler and gassed six gotrillion serbian children, unborn babies, women etc., so he kept sending diplomats to scream at Pavelić. Really interesting how the number keeps rising every year, too. He didn't even want to genocide the worst slavs, and got upset when someone else started doing it. I doubt he wanted to genocide any of the other ones.

Yeah i guess those Ustashe concentration camps were just a figment of Serbian imagination

Don't believe to this faggot , dear Croat, you were right kicking those Serb commies ass in the Yugoslav civil war.

This is autism, but the bad kind.

In terms of Germany's goals Japan was pretty useless. They failed to even threaten Russia and then brought the USA into the war.

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Reminder that the sole goal of any country is to genocide every other country until they are the only ones left.
Then to kill everyone in the remaining country until only one person is left or is killed in the slaughter.
There is no such thing as friends. Only people that haven't tried to stab you in the back yet.
Death is the ultimate goal of all and must be brought to all.

Typical communist rhetoric to discredit the opposition. Croat Ustasha didn't genocide anybody. It was Serb communists killing any other non-Serbs to hold as much of territory from tha abomination that was Yugoslavia as possible.

t. increasingly nervous civic platform or parszywce i syjoniści supporter when asked about loosening gun laws

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So, removing Kebab is perfectly fine, but removing 3/4ths Kebab in denial is a big no-no?

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As old Serb proverb goes: Од свих Срба најгори су Хрвати.

The powder keg never disappoints!

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You're truly my greatest ally for remembering the six gorillion.