The international fallout of a second American civil war

Israel will just buddy up with China or Russia as their big protector. More than likely China. Which means we will flush a rightful vengeance down upon them.

Yes, without injection of money and greatest golem destroyingmocratizing tyrannical countries who picked their borders next to israel, jews are as good as gassed.

Shocking, I know.

Does anyone have a cap of the kraut's reply to the Indian civil war thread? Either way, other countries affiliated with burgerland would collapse similar to the Soviets except with a lot more guns. Hell, the global instability may cause grimdark levels of bloodshed to occur with so many people involved.

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There's no ethnic nationalism or racism if you don't force different races together.

Who knows
Most likely the later, the problem is there will probably be two or maybe even three governments made from the current government demanding to be recognized as the legitimate US.
They're fucked, they might get rides from NATO but they also might just get killed by the muzzies.
Unlikely to both, chances are that South Korea capitulates to the Norks and the Korean Peninsula is united, don't know how it'd work but I doubt the South Korean government would be willing to wage another war while the US is collapsing.
Not sure how many native Hawaiins are there nor how strong the Hawaiin identity is, if it's anything like Texas they would secede eventually.
I'd be very surprised if they didn't.
Probably not
They already are.
Depends if Iran threatens them with WMDs of any sorts.
Russian involvement in the Second ACW would be akin to American involvement in the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. Mostly supplies and maybe some Special Forces teaching friendly militias some guerrilla tactics.
Unlikely, they'd just give whatever the center left government that's asking for legitimacy relief and supplies.

It's very hard to predict what'd happen in a Civil War, because depending on the severity, it might be just some skirmishes here and there while the rest of the country is locked down via martial law (in the event there's NO schism in the government) to complete fucking chaos that's damn near impossible to imagine. My bet would be the former happens. In the event there's a governmental schism, or something akin to what happen in the first Civil War with two separate nations existing, it could very well lead to World War 3, a very confusing and extremely deadly World War 3.

Well if (((you))) didn't force all the races to live with each other and reinforce that the reason niggers are in jail are because of evil whitey this wouldn't have happened Schlomo.

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We might outgun the rest of the Balkans together but Turkey outguns us two to one and have 7 times our population, it's not wise to underestimate them even if they are lowly subhumans.

All retarded shitposting aside;

Russia. Russia would maintain control over the region, as US Forces enacted previous established contingency operations and move back to CENTCOM bases, most likely those located in Djibouti and Kuwait/Saudi Arabia/Jordon.
As much as everyone likes to mentally hypothesis about possible outcomes, the reality is; Bases across EUCOM would assume FPCON Charlie, those bases hosting nukes apart of of the NSA would assume FPCON Charlie with specific readiness postures from FPCON Delta taken by the NST guarding the WSV.
They would continue unabated, using whatever means they had before US shipments, mostly Soviet-era hardware and munitions, some Chinese, and even some obscure Nork stuff.
No. Japan has it's own plate of shit to deal with. It'd be more likely with the US being involved domestically, we'd see the Norks move and China move to expand it's region projection of power.
No.

Yes.
No.
Always.
No.
No.
No.

I know everyone likes to pitch the idea of a fractured nation with vying regional governments bickering for control, but the US Government has a contingency for everything, including internal civil upheaval. Continuity of Government Operations takes into account the possibility of "aggressors" moving to pose as legitimate government authority, which is why the National Command Authority exists, it's why TACAMO exists, and it's why the line of succession exists. It's also why messaging formats like EAM are encrypted, why the NCA maintains go-codes, ect…

Only in a Zig Forumsommando pipedream does NATO scratch it's head not knowing what to do, as the US wars with itself. The US effects much around the globe, but our existence is only key to a handful and even during an all out nuclear exchange, so long as some semblance of the US Gov is functioning, the US will have a means to exercise force projection on some level.

To give you some idea of how deep CoG runs. If a staff officer with a direct subordinate to concur, are assumed to be to only governing authority of the US Government left, after sufficient effort has been made to contact command, any command with the US command structure, then they maintain the authority to exercise any means of force they deem necessary under their command, to further the interests of the United States, to include the use of nuclear weapons. This is reinforced by the two-man rule, with all effort s made to ensure two "men" are apart of the decision making process.

No.

Someone should perhaps inform the US military that World War 2 is over.

Both of those places are excellent staging points for invasions of our cold war enemies

VPN user, you should really do your research. There's no such organisation in the UK. There's the Royal Navy and the Royal Airforce - but no Royal Army.

China immediately makes a move in South East Asia.

Nobody could stop them.

Last I checked Charlie you punted them in the teeth and liberated Cambodia at the same time. I doubt they're any more competent.

Pure numbers, they have the largest military in the world by pure numbers and a fuckton of production capabilities. All their tech is from yesteryear but they have basically cloned everything good from the Soviets. Sure, they might just be nothing but T-72 clones, but they can produce three times as many T-72 clones as anyone else.

That was the 70s, this is now.

Vietnam hasn't modernized its army since the 70s, tank force is still primarily T-64.

wot

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Enemy nations need to be occupied. United Nation still defines former Axis, or axis affiliated nations as "enemy nations". Any United Nation Security Council member-state can declare war against any of those nations just for shits and giggles completely legally.

Kikepedia says that any UN member can attack them without permission from the Security Council. Which means enemy nations can attack other enemy nations without a casus belli. Therefore we could take back Transylvania if we had the army for it.

What if US communications infrastructure gets fractured to the point, say, the West coast loses all viable means to contact the East coast in addition to being duped by propaganda saying Washington got nuked and the President's dead even though he isn't and thus hastily appoint an interim ruling council of the "US" with radically different ideas on how to proceed compared to the internationally recognized government in the East?
If the President and most high-ranking officials in Washington did get killed, resulting in an eastern council being formed whose government would the legitimate one?
Could there be infighting and splintering among the various branches of the US military even without such a thing happening?

Very bad ones. Whenever talk of a US civil war or other major upheaval hitting the nation, my brain always comes back to two fact.

1. The United States is the largest grain exporter in the world.

2. Canada is the second largest grain exporter in the world.

Food production always shits the bed in a civil war scenario. Now take the clusterfuck of the Russian or Chinese civil war but apply those food shortages to the entire world.

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Turn the VPN off lad.

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You know that USA has the control over German media and education until 2099 in exchange for all of german gold as collateral and guarantee of german "independence"?

Will the US even exist in 2099?

Mathematically unlikely

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This.

Also, read Spengler and read up on Caesar's Civil War and the period around it.

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I had a detailed explanation typed out, but my browser decide it was a good time to crash. So, in summary, it's "possible" but highly improbable. US Mil & Gov comm infrastructure is EXTREMELY robust ranging from highly survivable post-nuke ELF/SHF on-board any aircraft apart of the WABNCP, to EHF/UHF SATCOM for daily use by WHCA and DSN, down to HF/UHF/VHF nets operated by every single gov agency and the Mil.

Continuity of Government Operations were designed specifically with nukes in mind. Even the slightest whiff of increased tensions with the minute potential in release of nukes, the President and other in the line of succession can be whisked away at a monuments notice to any number of hardened locations like PEOC, Site R, Mount Weather, Peters Mountain, NORAD, ect… even AF1 is designed to a haven during a nuclear exchange, hardened against EMP, the fuselage designed to widthstand extreme over-pressure, the crew is trained in how to handle turbulence caused by a detonation, ect… any aircraft under TACAMO have the same capabilities and crew training, even in a post-detonation environment, aircraft under the WABNCP have a means to communication with our sub fleet, even if the entirety of COMSUBLANT and COMSUBPAC are wiped off the Earth.

The line of succession is very long, post-9/11 the FVRA was invoked requiring all executive departments to have an established line of succession in place should a catastrophic attack occur and neutralize any or all of the initial line of succession, to give an idea of how expansive that is, the DoD alone has 53 positions in it's order of succession and that's a single executive department out of 15 that exist. Not all of these people are based in DC, many head up department divisions in other locations, so the

Now, nothing is stopping a group from forming a form of government if they think the US Gov is neutralize or incapacitated, with the exception that said provisional government has no access to the comm infrastructure of the gov, it has no access or idea what established callsigns are, nor does it have any idea what encryption or other security measures are in place to ensure protection for external interference with CoG operations.

This has always been a possibility, but a minute one. Scuttlebutt has always existed, but if attacks against government occurred without context, they would be framed as terror attacks against legitimate authority. Politics don't happen in a vacuum. Unlike the common scenario discussed here on Zig Forums with droves of cops and troops coming to take guns, a direct firearm confiscation wouldn't be an overnight action that suddenly materializes legions of loyal cops and troops to carry out the orders. It would be a executive order or a bill passed into law, meaning it would be in the federal register, it'd be all over the news for weeks as the media peacocked about how finally something would be done about rampant gun violence, there would be an established timeline of the establishment said law, then the pieces would be moved to enact enforcement edicts, something the majority of military personnel aren't going to agree with, cops would be a smattering of those in big cities moving to enforce the edicts, with small town departments not wanting to risk their necks, thus either not enforcing or rebelling. This is why the slow boil approach will be the route taken, in a generations time guns will be vilified wholly as tools of criminals, terrorists, and any other boogie many the left can associate them with, thus putting social and political pressure on those few gun owners left.

As much as I hate the NRA and boomers, they're the only thing that's managed to keep the Left at bay for the past 50 years, albeit by compromising and piece-mealing away our rights, but the cucked millennials and zoomers are the generations brainwashed into thinking the only thing preventing a utopia of equality and free stuff is whites and their damned guns…and as the boomers die off, the small percentage of patriot and nationalistic millennials will have their votes nullified by the droves of cucked millennials and zoomers, as well as the ever growing imported brown horde.

But wouldn't it make sense for the guys on the lower end of the succession list to have access to at least some degree of military contingency equipment&protocols in case the guys at the top get killed?
What if one of the "legitimate" governments manages to squeeze out a deal with Russia/some other bad goy country for getting medical and food supplies delivered to starving civilians, only for the other "legitimate" government ordering them to shut it down lest they be branded as traitors following the reestablishment of communications.
There's also the possibility of there being defectors among the line of succession handing over encrypted comms access to rebels.
But the most important question remains: Would USN ships get seized for warcrimes against civilian vessels?

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Federalism is solidified; there would just be a lot of dead commies, faggots, kikes, and blacks/hispanics, but not much else.
(((Europe))) would try to Rhodesia us and then after a few years when their economies begin to collapse because we refuse to protect their shipping in retaliation and their aerospace industries die, then they would change their tune. Chinks would have to pay more for their chink apothecary supplies because the global almond supply would be disrupted. Not much else would happen.

But wouldn't it make sense for the guys on the lower end of the succession list to have access to at least some degree of military contingency equipment&protocols in case the guys at the top get killed?

They do, when the occasion requires it. Compartmentalization is a large part of the US Governments system of controlling classified information and hardware. I think where your having trouble understanding is the magnitude of operations, this isn't a case of a room full of personnel who've been given a select position to control everything if everyone else dies, there is a system in place with rings of security and control. For example, if CIA Section Chief Richard E. Head miraculously becomes leader of the free world because every superior above him was dead, he doesn't suddenly hold all the keys to the kingdom, he has a select few keys that allow him access to specific places and to select information. If at some point it becomes necessary for him to gain access to more control functions or information, then he'll be granted that by way of protocol, which involves a system of others around him. No single person gains control during a crisis, even if a coup or mutiny happened, that's the point of Continuity of Government, it's designed to maintain as many functional facets of "legitimate" government as possible in as rigid and adherent to the original structure of government as possible. Even when it the last to American's left on Earth and a nuke, the Two Man Rule requires both agree to utilize the weapon, otherwise PAL design will prevent a single person from launching or detonating it.

This is assuming communications across all nets has been severed, which would require some serious damage to US mainland, like pockmarked with nuke craters kind of damage, but to play Devil's Advocate; if a splinter faction or otherwise illicitly independently operating arm of the US Government contacted a foreign power to workout a means of assistance, any other still functioning section of government will know immediately, as all communication modes interoperate on the same nets between departments and agencies, all communications means are also monitored, both for security and to seek out other surviving departments/agencies/people. I also can't foresee anyone in government caring enough about the burn, blind, or dying Average Joe to contact a foreign power…those in government as it is don't care enough to reinstitute a program like the Civil Defense in the 1960's to stockpile rations and building shelters when we have the means to do it right now, there is no way they're going to risk occupation or invasion by a foreign power by inviting them to feed the peons eking out an existence out in the open.

There is a very good possibility of that occurring, but without knowing the SOI or CEOI of that net that hardware is of little value. SOI and CEOI change daily, assets may also be utilizing further encryption methods outside of signals encryption, like an OTP or a cypher with requires a key that is also changed daily.

Unlikely, US naval vessels would maintain their formations within their group, operating under combat conditions and engaging any vessels not previous established for contact with the group over an established comms net like UHF FHSS. Just because things have fallen apart domestically, doesn't mean the military falls apart too, they have continuity and contingency operations plans of their own. Outside of Russia or China…maybe the UK, no nation-state has the means to engage a US naval surface group, which would most likely take to open water and establish their air and subsurface screening nets the second went to shit.

Don't worry.
After we kick bong ass, we'll be relieving you of your muslim and jew plague.
We'll free the English people.

You forgot Israel.
Doubt.jpg, those Navy vessels would also need to resupply at some port every now and then.
Would they be willing to drag the US/its remnant into a war against some far off bad goy nation for refusing to let them dock at a nearby port?

I was talking more on raw naval surface power capabilities. The Israeli Navy nowhere near being capable of taking on a US Surface Group.

Not at ports, at preposition stock locations, what is known as PM3. Military Sealift Command maintains sixteen preposition stock ships globally, including rations and fuel, through the MPF and OPDS, in the event the US military needs to deploy globally. Then there is also more land-based propositioned stock apart of the APS and WRS, located at secure bases on the coasts of allied nations all over the globe including one at Diego Garcia. Then there are the myriad of black sites not publicly disclosed.

I mean, sure a nation can refuse to allow refueling, but realistically only a handful of nations are going to refuse to assist a US surface group, of course the surface group could maintain itself near neutral or friendly nations willing to provide fuel and berthing. An DDG can steam 4400nm before needing to refuel and a surface group isn't going to move without knowing where it's next refuel point is going to be. It's also not outside the realm a surface group could overtake tankers and commandeer their fuel stores or force civil vessels to relinquish a portion of their fuel for use, IIRC nearly all naval surface combat vessels have fueling lines fitting with standard industrial connectors and can be retrofitted to accommodate older connector if needed.

In the event of the US of McDonalds fucking itself up our country's plan is to to pack up and swap locations with Australia. Nobody would notice the difference anyway.

The talk of lines of succession and the military/government not falling apart during a civil war is laughable. Yugoslavia showed on a small scale what would happen if a civil war broke out. The military is nothing without the US economy backing it up. ACW2 will likely crash the global economy, which does include the US economy as well. If a government isn't paying its troops, then what incentive do the troops have to work for the government?

Power is determined by the number of loyal enforcers you have to enforce your will. Most government employees, including soldiers, are in the positions they are in because they are paid. Thus, real power is the power to tax. No economy, no tax. No tax, no paychecks, No paychecks, no loyalty.

This goes the same for most other countries, all of which have extensive and critical exposure to the US economy. Pic related is more powerful than any military or weapon. And we are all exposed to it.

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I don't think that would end well with the current state of the USN.
Due to the current burger nuclear deterrent, the world (((economy))) and the various CIA proxies and international pro-burger treaties+alliances scattered around the globe.
What reason would these "allied" countries have to uphold their word when Wall Street turns into an early Weimar Republic warzone with the rest of the US being in various stages of self-shoah?

What's so laughable? During the Civil War, the Union maintained the majority of it's military and industrial infrastructure. Even with the loss of the agro-industrial South, we saw how well the Union fared without a supply of Southern cotton, sugar, tobacco, and other crops.

Nothing is stopping you from thinking everything will fault to shit, including CoG, but don't be foolish enough to think you'll get to play baron-robber and lord over hordes of followers. Chances are, if shit is bad enough CoG and military contingency falls through, 95% of this board is dead as well.

Yugoslavia wasn't just a Civil War fought over political ideologies. It was a series of territorial ethno-seperatist insurgencies fought in a slew of former Soviet Republics…not quite the same as a politically instigated rebellion against one of the most advanced and well armed governments in modern history.

No, the Military Industrial Complex is nothing without the economy, you're conflating the MIC with the Military, while often times indistinguishable, there is a difference and during a SHTF scaerio that difference becomes stark. A civil war is just another OPORD in a filing cabinet of full them, you think a civil war would fuck shit up…what you do think a nuclear exchange would do? FFS the DoD has an entire manual series and ASI course on civil disturbance operations, with Civil Affairs units that specialize in building rapport and establishing relationships in completely obliterated territories with otherwise neutral groups. With slim exception, most folk are going to fall under that neutral umbrella, because they won't see a collapse as the fault of government, it will be the fault of whatever rebel faction instigated a rebellion against what is viewed by the general public as an otherwise benevolent government.

No doubt about that, doesn't mean the world stops turning. It just means what use to be simple becomes extremely difficult and what was difficult becomes impossible.

Food, shelter, safety, security, organization, structure, ect… things most people will be without, because the majority of society relies on corporate and government welfare to subsist. You also act as if the government wouldn't institute military script to substitute green-backs like it has in the past.

This isn't the first time the DoD has had it's ranks filled to the brim with incompetence. Most of the Cold War force was drafted guys who dropped acid, played DnD, and for the most part couldn't be assed to preform menial tasks with any level of expertise of skill. Tommy Franks book covers the abyssal state of EUCOM forces during the era. Very quickly the ranks would see a thinning of the more incompetent individuals, as they either learned or became dead at the hands of their fellow seamen.

>Due to the current burger nuclear deterrent, the world (((economy))) and the various CIA proxies and international pro-burger treaties+alliances scattered around the globe.
So long as force projection is maintained, much of that stays in place. Nuclear deterrence doesn't take a holiday because of some civil unrest in the mainland.

None realistically, other than risking making themselves an enemy. In which case, the surface group could just take what it wants by force or just shitcan the entire port so it serves nothing to anyone.

I'm ok with this.

What about the frogs? I'd have thought their naval capacity is about on par with the RN, at least until the two new carriers and up and actually have fucking planes.

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Vietnam didn't win those wars through tech, you won through guerrilla tactics. Despite writing the Art of War, the Chinese don't seem to grasp the concept of tactics.

Its laughable because the government expects people to work for free. Tell me, when was the last time the US military had a force wide war game where its members were not paid for more than 2 months, stocks of food were rationed, and communication outside of CoC (talking to family as an example) was made artificially difficult to the point that happened maybe once every three months? The closest thing would be the crews on boomers, but even their families get a paycheck, health insurance and other benefits.
Oh I understand that perfectly. Just tell the brass at the Pentagon that.
That's what ACW2 would be. Politics is largely ethnic in this country.
Nuclear exchange is foreign threat. And I doubt the USG is prepared for an actual nuclear war either. CoC might be maintained, but it'll be like Hitler in his bunker. Commanding phantom armies that don't exist anymore. Domestic disturbance on ACW2 scales are a whole different animal.
I'm assuming getting paid and not losing your life savings is a part of the course.
They will see the collapse as the fault of whoever doesn't pay them or give them basic needs. FDIC can't ensure everyone's deposits, and most people will have their life savings wiped out, their checking accounts worthless (if the banks aren't on permanent holiday) and their home values obliterated. People are going to be upset at every faction, because every faction had a role in destroying their society. The economy touches everyone. There is no neutral party.
That can all be obtained independently of DC. If the US treasury doesn't pay its people, somebody else will or they'll do whatever the fuck they want. What's stopping Col. Sanders from just taking his battalion and capturing a county and its resources for the fun of it? Shit, what's stopping Pfc. Retard and Sgt. Shitstain from taking supplies and leaving in a stolen truck? A court martial? By who? As of two months ago, DC is in a different country, the brassfags in charge of their army group are squabbling with other brassfags and their new financiers about control of food stocks, and you haven't been paid in 1 month and the last time you talked to your family they were complaining about running out of food, how the power barely stays on and militias, police and gangs having shootouts on the street in front of their house.
I can do my job and get shot at by my neighbors for $500 a month, equivalent to pre-collapse money, or my squaddies and I can sell these 200 M4s and AT rockets in the supply room for $2k a piece in gold/silver and have enough money to leave the country tonight with my family to South America, buy a decent sized piece of land and be taken care of financially for the rest of my life.

I think they are going to do more than just that. There is bunches of micronationalistic groups in Australia that want to conquer the pacific islands. The democracy probably will be gone because of lack of the public confidence in politicans.

this

the sad thing is I am actually english. you all knew what I meant.

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You're really stuck on the idea that green-backs are the only way someone can be compensated.

I see what you're insinuating, but it's nonsensical. When the economy collapses, pay is going to be worthless paper cloth, at which point it won't matter how long you've worked without pay, so long as your basic needs are being met. Motivation at that point becomes retaining a means of defense, nourishment, and shelter.

Military personnel not riding a desk have more combined experience than any one group in CONUS on what it's like to live on rationed food and when the economy collapses that ration food is going to be one of the only sources of readily available food provided in exchange for manpower.

In a situation where the economy has collapsed, communication outside of CoG is going to be non-existent, with minimal exception to those with access to amateur radio. As it stands, personnel deployed OCONUS have limited contact with family.

Active Duty families would still see those benefits, why do you think the military maintains it's own facilities, with it's own support infrastructure? And do you really think health insurance is going to be that big of concern in a situation involving economic collapse?

The brass in the Pentagon are the people with the means to play robber-baron, as they have their hordes place your head on a pike.

Only in the pipedreams of Zig Forumslacks would it be some kind of racial cleansing on the level of Yugoslavia. Politics in this country is largely economic.

The origin of the threat is moot.

You're free to intellectually invest in whatever you'd like.

>CoC might be maintained, but it'll be like Hitler in his bunker. Commanding phantom armies that don't exist anymore.
Which is the exact opposite of what CoG is…

On the tactical level, yes. We're talking CoG, not a micro-level situation of Sgt. Shitstain dealing with hordes of starving rioters.

Pay and a lifesaving that would be worthless…

Except hunger and vulnerability will dictate which faction they are upset with the least, if that faction is providing some level of assistance.

Only if you do it yourself, before things fall apart.

Pay them in what? To purchase what? If the economy has collapsed, money has no value and expendable income is pointless.

Of course they can, they can go AWOL, taking their family to leave the relative safety of of the base their stationed on.

and livestock…yeah, ok.

Well, primarily Col. Sanders being smarter than the average Zig Forumsommando, understanding the overarching implications of what's happening on both a micro and macro scale, and knowing a battalion-sized unit is incapable of capturing and holding an area the size of the standard US county without external support from support units like fires, rotary, ISR, logistics and intel. He also knows a county has no resources to offer and holding such a large area is pointless and that having his Civil Affairs detachment broker a deal with local farmers for crops in exchange for something on the SWEAT-MSO/ASCOPE model under the umbrella of military civil support operations.

An Article 31? No, chances are they'd be shot, by the MP's securing the supplies and transpo pool.

Ok…and? Business as usual.

So you can run out and buy…a loaf of bread? I really would like to know what you think people are buying with worthless money?

This is only if you a Guardsman or a Reservist…why the fuck you would show up to a muster when shit has hit the fan, I have no idea, other than you must be an idiot.

No, you can do your job, knowing your family is secure and being fed behind the perimeter of an installation.

So let me get this straight. You'd trade useful hardware in exchange for precious metals that no longer hold a monetary value, because their dollar value dried up the week after the collapse occured, with the barter system having replaced our monetary system with ammunition and food being at the top of every person's list. So that you can leave the country, with the intent to move to another continent that is host to nations who've experienced severe economic turmoil when the global economy was still stable and by this point are most likely in a proverbial Dark Age in social and societal terms. I suppose you're just going to walk into some hacienda, drop a few Krugerrand on the mesa and expect the landholder to take you seriously, thinking he's just going to take a handful of now useless coins in exchange for the land he's been using the to grow his own crops

>precious metals that no longer hold a (((monetary))) value

I dunno kraut, I don't see any use in trading for a metal that doesn't oxidize, has a lot of technological and medical applications, the supply of which is limited.
No idea who would find that useful or desirable :^)

You'd have a point if more than 0.00005% of the populace understood gold and silver have actual value outside of being a monetary commodity. Most of the world can barely grasp the concept that goods don't magically appear on store shelves, let alone travel over an extremely fragile and complex system which can fail at the drop of a hat…Seriously through my Teutonic friend, outside of that slim group of people, who do you think is going to want gold or silver? If they have the knowledge and means to use it in any of it's applicable technological and medical uses, what's stopping them from just shooting you in the face and taking it? Of course, this is assuming that swallow pool of folks had to foresight to cover their more pressing bases before seeking out gold or silver for use in coating contacts to prevent corrosion or use it to create wound care salves, which begs the question of why they didn't just build gold/silver stocks before SHTF? It's more like gold and silver would have more value much further on into a long-term rolling scenario once the die-offs have occurred, the roving bands have scratched out their territories and those hardy and smart enough to survive had began working toward returning to some level of normalcy and civilization.

Good point, but

This, US goes into civil war and basically the entire global economy unravels.

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>shooting down civilian airliners carrying refugees
This is a 100% foolproof plan with no negative consequences for the US military at all, it's also unthinkable for criminal organizations to smuggle people out of the country during times of war, such a thing has never happened and will never happen.

It doesn't require turning the US into a giant prison, my Teutonic friend; Within the first month of an economic collapse the nation would see mass unorganized migration as those in urban areas fan out in search for food and other necessities. In that same time frame will begin the first "die off", primarily individual dependent on medical assistance like Type-1 diabetics, those with an oxygen dependence like OCPD, ect… as they run dry of insulin, deplete their supply of bottled oxygen, ect… as the populations of city centers begin to diminish due to crime, starvation, migration, ect… making controlling those city centers and their infrastructure that much easier.

It's global economic meltdown, no one is going to care if an airliner or airliners are blown out of the sky, let alone even know about it, unless they were a witness or had access to a battery operated or crank-powered radio, because electrical power will be non-existent due to those opposing factions that moved to cripple infrastructure, but even if you did have a radio what's stopping the government from claiming it was a plane full of domestic terrorists that cause the collapse and destroyed critical infrastructure? An aircraft can also be force landed without being engaged with a weapons system. But, playing along…who's going to do something about it? The starving and disorganized public? Some barely functional, bubba militia who's membership was majorly alphabet soup types? Russia? China? They'll be too busy blowing their own airliners out of the sky to give a fuck.

This is also assuming the government hasn't had the AF pockmark runs ways at airports across the country to reduce the amount of usable airports in an effort to consolidate control and access.

Sure, organized syndicates could certainly smuggle people out or they could just dome you, take your gold ingots and dump your body. Because no one is going to care and there is no law enforcement agencies or organizations left to investigate your untimely death, they're all to busy raiding or providing security for politicians/themselves. So, you could end up like those poor bastards in the tractor trailer found in Mexico City…nah, dealing with the underlings of society during a time of lawlessness, you're good fam, nothing bad is gonna happen to you.

user I can't quite follow you.
You assume that the Burger line of succession would be absolutely unbreakable in an event of chaotic mass starvation and global economic collapse, that the US gov. would retain physical and ideological control over all of the US with no rebel movements or large scale military defections habbening, and that they'd just shoah all air travel to prevent some big-nosed civilians from escaping the Disunited Shithole of America via plane after trading in their gold reserves.
On top of that there'd no Russia-mediated "peace talks" between the US remnant and various Rebel groups eventually leading to some treaty barring the use of NBCs, also the US totally wouldn't see part of its Air assets defect to rebels with said rebels never recieving foreign materiel support, no one would also want to establish no-fly zones over contested areas to somewhat contain the conflict instead of triggering an unnecessary nuclear exchange.
But, playing along…who's going to do something about it? The starving and disorganized public? Some barely functional, bubba militia who's membership was majorly alphabet soup types? Russia? China? They'll be too busy blowing their own airliners out of the sky to give a fuck.
user have you forgotten that this is the thread were we discuss the possible international fallout of a second American civil war?
It's not unfeasible to think that the US could offend the international community to the point of sanctions, with them no longer being in charge of international bullying what's stopping Japan, the EU, Straya, Israel etc. from putting sanctions on an US glassing its own citizens with Nuclear strikes?
What's to prevent them from negotiating with Rebel factions?
And why would Russia want to shoot its own Airliners out of the sky?

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I think you kinda underestimate zoomers. It's their generation, not our that made great leaps rightwards.

I gathered.

It's not the Line-of-Succession (LoS) that is of importance in this discussion, it's general Continuity-of-Government (CoG), Line-of-Succession is just a small part of CoG. Now, the entirety of CoG is design from the group up primarily around nuclear exchange and the US sustaining anywhere from limited to crippling sustained damage to both infrastructure and industry, with the emphasis being if government can maintain a functional and operational existence, then recovery is a possibility. Over the years, newer OPLAN have been developed, to include Mass Civil Disturbance, Economic Collapse, Rebellion, Terrorism, ect… generally the overall of each OPLAN is the same, but some key assets are changed around, like TACAMO and NAOC wouldn't have a purpose in a scenario concerning Mass Civil Disturbance or Economic Collapse.

The US Government doesn't have to maintain or even archive physical control over all of the US, it only needs to control and maintain a few key locations, with the rest of the country simply falling in line because of lack in communications, basic infrastructure, ect… and a extreme reliance on authority for direction and assistance (Why do you think in regional disaster events like Hurricane Katrina or the California Camp Fire you have people sitting around waiting for government instruction and help?)

The same applies for ideological control; even as our economy hums along, the majorly of the general public looks at the US Government as a nanny and safety net. That viewpoint will only further entrench during collapse scenario. The US Government isn't going to go out into the boonies to pass out humanitarian rations and give medical care, it's going to set up aid bases and stations in city centers, where the mass of the national population is and where people can be easily maintained, thinking there is safety in civilization, which is what everyone is taught.

In never said rebel movements wouldn't surface, you assumed that. In the beginning rebel factions would be exceedingly small, a few hundred at most. Large-scale factions wouldn't form until at minimum a year into a collapse, as most folks will hold out hope for recovery and a return for normalcy.

Military defections will happen, but not on a large-scale. Most Guard and Reserve personnel will simply refuse to muster, out of a sense of urgency of self-preservation, some will do so out of a sense of protecting their families. Active Duty personnel will see the less defections, as they and their families will be provided with rations, healthcare, and security behind the perimeter of the base they're stationed on, essentially becoming islands in the sea of death and starvation.
Air travel will collapse on it's own, it relies on the economy as much as the rest of industry. The FAA can also ground all aircraft and in the extreme the military can crater runways. The government preventing commercial air travel is as much about control of the people as it is about reducing the amount of applicable sites for organized criminal syndicates, terror factions, rebel factions, and covert foreign assets to operate aircraft out of. (When the US invades a nation, one of the first strike targets are airfield and airports, with the primary concerning be destroying runways beyond repair.)

The US wouldn't be a Kosovo or Syria, when the economy collapses, it will be global in effect. Imagine a scenario with rebel factions fighting against government, but playing out in every country in the world, because that is what will be happening. Russia won't have the resources to concern itself with supplying rebel factions in the US, it will be dealing with it's own internal and regional issues, like the Chechens, Georgia, Anti-Gov factions, rival political factions with military influence, ect…

The domestic events of the US will dictate the severity and depth of international fallout. Any adverse action taken by US rebel factions in a Civil War would cause an immediate collapse of the US economy and in-turn the global economy.

To initiate and enforce actions, a nation or group of nations has to have economic power over the nation they seek to sanction and they must have the military means to follow through with threats if the actions are violated. (If you haven't notice, sanctions only work on nations if they care and if things are operating normally)

It would require the combined effort of all the nations you've listed to threaten the US, either economically or militarily, even in a global collapse scenario. It's far more likely the EU would throw in with BRICS for the sake of survival (Why do you think Merkel and Macron have touted the ideal of a "European Army" so heavily?), the Grand Nippon Empire turned to ash by the Chinks who've got both economic and military means to do it (the JSDF is no match for the PLA), then once the Nips are scorched rice, the Chinks would set their sight on Stralya (The ADF is even in less of a position to take on the PLA than the JSDF is.)

Israel? Israel is going to be far too busy determining whether or not it needs to execute Jericho Option on itself as mass Arab Coalition comes steaming across the Sinai and through the Negev to fuck their shit up.

Nothing, but that would be for months, if not a year's time into a collapse.
The same reason as the US. To maintain control over it's borders and airspace.

Here's how I see it happening, CoG will functional near flawlessly for the first year into a collapse, as most people will keep a flame for a return to the way life was, after the initial dies offs, seeing the government as a benevolent organization and those in lower-tiers of government seeing themselves are the appointed protectors of the American way of life.
Eventually after a year's time of seeing people dying and starving, of being made to do the menial and laborious tasks as politicians and their bureaucratic superiors lounge around, dine in splendor and laugh every night. As rebel and criminal factions grow in size into the tens of thousands, far outnumbering the remaining numbers of the US Military, with personnel defecting out of both fear and disgust. As people who've spent a year's time surrounded by th death of loved ones, eking out an existence digging through rubble and trash for food, living like an animal, and eventually joining up with others as they hear rumors of the political elite living out their days in comfort in bunkers and secure facilities. Then we'll see the complete collapse of of CoG, with a severe fracturing of the Line-of-Succession, with politicians and bureaucrats forming their own fiefdoms using loyal military and federal forces to execute their whims.

Whether I'm right or wrong, I'm going to take the government's contingency plans at face value, rather than assume things will just fall apart. If I'm right, then I know where and what to avoid. If I'm wrong, then life will be a bit easier during the collapse with one less concern to worry and dodge.

I can see the global economic collapse shoahing Western economies, but would Russia really degrade into Chaos before getting its shit together and seeing a rise in production of domestic goods?
(((Analysts))) were predicting a complete collapse by 2016 following the Sanctions against the country put in during the Crimean crisis yet Russia hasn't crashed itself in the slightest since then, China seems far more likely to do so given their bugman mentality and reliance on western manufacturers.
Couldn't Countries used to extensive sanctions on behalf of the US such as Iran or North Korea benefit from the collapse of globalism all around them?

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>(((Analysts))) were predicting a complete collapse by 2016
Literally not a single economist was believing in a russcuck collapse so early. If we look at the 1992 hyperinflation there's blast of the USSR's hidden rouble inflation, production chains' extinction and low oil prices. 1998 hyperinflation had been caused by the Asian financial crisis, huge privatization failure and, again, oil prices. In 2016 they've only got low oil prices and a tad of sanctions, not nearly close to the 90's. In reality there's gonna be decades of Iran-like cold war situation until their elites get tired of all that shit. I say elites because the population is cucked so much they were even starving completely quiet in 90's and voted Eltsin for his 2nd term.

It would probably implode
NATO would probably either collapse, or see limited involvement in a US civil war, since it would be a shitshow of massive proportions that most would not want to get directly involved in. They in the end, would likely attempt to back the current US government, in whatever form.
Probably some local conflicts would erupt in the middle east/central asia in general, but to what extent would be hard to say.
I see the Japos not getting involved in anyway, since Japan is not known for it's militarism anymore. The Korean peninsula on the other I haven't the faintest.
It would probably attempt to receive as much foreign aid as possible and wait for the dust to settle.
Depends if the PRC thinks if they can get away with it in the long run, it's a toss up.
No
They do that without any American internal conflicts.
If they were attacked and it was clear they couldn't win, probably.
Most likely not, though I can see them fucking with the entire situation to get as much leverage over the EU in terms of trade as humanly possible. Where as with the ACW, they'd likely back any group which benefit them in the long run. Not with direct involvement, but with material, training and other such methods.
In a word no. Canada would probably be a humanitarian nightmare of people attempting to flee to it, while the US-Canadian border would be a hotspot for conflict between whatever factions would be involved in the American Civil War. Our economy would be fucked. And depending on how hard our Federal government fucks up, it would likely balkanize into various regional elements until order is restored.

In the CONUS after the collapse, government control can only be immediately exerted in three areas: the areas around military bases, major cities, and loyalist communities. Bases will be by far the most important resource for the government, because they are secure and will not be subject to (major) unrest. Cities will be the second most important area, but those will be a shitshow. The average melanin enriched citizen will not stay calm and orderly during ACW2. He's going to grab his gang and make the LA riots look like a music festival. Loyalist communities will be by fall the least dangerous area, but will have little value apart from use as propaganda and drafting zones.
The issue is that, while the government will remain stable, society will not. The average American household has less than two weeks of food on hand, and rely on supermarkets and restaurants to get their next meal. What happens when those supermarkets and restaurants have no food? Violence and desperation.

Americucks wouldn't have another civil war. They would just willingly bend over and get raped by the government before getting completely replaced by shitskins.
Everyone then profits massively from the death of the americucks.

Yeah I have to agree I think the yanks are massively overestimating the federal governments ability to retain control of the U.S. once the full knock on effect of a civil war and collpase are felt. They may control federal agencies and the military (what would be left considering the defection rate expected by the U.S.'s own speculations) but that's in no way enough to exert control when the civilian support structure that's all predicated on has gone AWOL.

Even MORE reasons for them to start a war.

Just start spamming mutt mutt mutt in every thread again kraut, we all know you're going to.

I fucking hate turkroaches, but their army outnumbers the greek one so much they could probably win the war even barehanded

Fuck off, nigger. I bought my first rifle at 15 three years ago and have built 3 more since. I don't intend on letting these soyslurpers get anywhere with their assault on my freedom. I'm hopped up on Halo and high fructose corn syrup, I've been hoping for civil war for the last 4 years. Step aside, grampa, it's our turn.

*dabs in millennial*

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Millenial was adjusted to include people born in the 80s.

What if blacks started an ethnostate in the Caribbean islands and buddied up with Cuba?

Its called Haiti.

Oy vey, are you saying G*rmans should be allowed to take their gold back from muttmerica?
You want a double whammy again, Poland?
t.mutt stationed in CIA FOB in Frankfurt

Do I live rent free in your head now, mutt?
The mutts of the new world really have a thing for cult leaders and "Satans".

*zoomer you total nigger

Haiti couldn't support a few million more people. Not enough mud cookies to go around. What I'm proposing would be a 2nd African diaspora after a racewar born from an American civil war.

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How can obsolete farm equipment forget about cotton?

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...

Economically, the European Union and East Asia collapses as 20% of everybody's exports no longer have a market. Or worse.

Geopolitically, Europe continues to do whatever cucked up nonsensical bullshit thing they are doing, possibly even threatening the V4 countries with more waves of sandniggers. Russia solves its Ukrainian and Baltics problems. And laughs in Britain and France's face when they threaten retaliation.

So France and Britain request that Poland allows a massive forward deployment in Poland, while at the same time threatening them and trying to force them to take millions of shitskins. Fun times.

As far as the Middle East is concerned, if this was 2005, the Saudi's would competently reach a political accord with its neighbors, even Iran and business would proceed. But it isn't 2005 and the current Saudi administration is retarded as fuck. So Iran stops fucking around, mobilizes troops and prepares to invade Iraq and take the Shiite parts while supporting the Kurds and building a straight line to Assad. Turkey flips its shit, and they also mobilize.

My money is on Turkey over extending themselves and getting eaten alive attempting to hold the fort down. Saudi Arabia tards out even harder. And nobody fucks with Israel lest the Israelis open up instant sunshine.

Its possible that the Palestinians do a mysterious disappearing act.

Africa goes right back to hell in the after shocks.

In North America, whichever faction takes and holds the Mississippi Basin, East Coast and Gulf Coast will then immediately move to take the rest of the USA. And Canada. And a large, northenr chunk of Mexico for easier border patroling.

In the short run, it ends American power projection for 15 years. Maybe longer. In the long run, America is bigger, and more powerful. And more dangerous, because none of the victors are going to care too much about getting up tot he nonsensical bullshit of yesteryear, so if we ever care about foreign oil again and it doesnt fall under someones nuclear umbrella, its 6 carrier battlegroups and 400,000 Marines invading and putting up minefields around the oil.

You can only pile so many machines through the mountains before a traffic jam makes it futile. Which leaves China with the option of large scale amphibious invasions. Everywhere.

Dibs on being Kolchak 2.0, minus the betrayal part

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You don't flush anything, you have shitting streets for that

What was with this guy and his double-nuggets? Not that I'm complaining.

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For the love of fuck, please do not start a massive world war if shtf in the US. That's what it sounds like you want to do or what would ultimately result from your actions. Nothing good will come from that except nuclear annihilation for the world.

...

This but I don't want my greekbros to die tho

So difficult!

I hope you reach weimar-tier economy again to wake up.
Everyone should, because we've already reached and surpassed the moral levels of weimar.