M855A1
Russian level 4 Armour
youtu.be
M855A1
William Cox
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Luke Smith
It's not an AP round, why would you think this would go through level 4 armor? You're looking for M995, negro.
Charles Scott
And even this won't go through in one shot. Level IV body armor is rated to stop AP 30-06.
Nolan Walker
Americans listening to the marketing Jew instead of their Marines
Connor Sullivan
Kevin Bennett
Not since they allowed women and faggots into their ranks. I'd rather listen to a Kenyan witch doctor than your average marine.
Angel Morales
But the marines are the marketing jews
Caleb Bell
Your Jew marketing and nigger craftsmanship isn’t what it used to be burgers. Walmart shiting lava lamps can’t dominate like a racially homogeneous nation with pride….just saying
Caleb Sullivan
The things you hold up as accomplishments were done by Nazis
Mason Diaz
Marines are adopting it as well. It's cheaper, better than the old round, and seems to be more accurate out of the M4. If you want to argue for a different caliber, be my guest, but M855A1 is Good Enough™.
David Anderson
Really? I heard they didn’t want it because it couldn’t be used in the M27s can’t run it and the harder penetrator chews up the feed ramps.
Ayden Clark
That’s why comrade Putin made Anti-Semitism illegal, right Leaf?
Jason Flores
What a waste of a thread. Level for is for .30-06 or 7.62x54R. Besides, if you really believe the Russians could even afford to outfit their combat troops with Level IV plates, you're delusional.
This of course is compounded by the fact that Level IV is heavy as sin.
You are a fucking faggot, OP.
Noah Bailey
Not even the goodest of goys could say this with a straight face.
Better at wearing out bolts and barrels, sure. It has slightly better capacity to go through cover(but not enough to make it an AP round), and even worse ballistics than the M855. So in essence, they took what made M855 a shit round and made it even worse, good job DoD. Barrels and bolts wear out half again as fast with M855A1, thanks to near-proof chamber pressure. Oh yeah, and until they designed a special snowflake magazine just for M855A1, it was gouging up barrel extensions.
Accuracy specs are the exact same as M855, and real-world testing confirms that. The "more accurate" groups were done on AMU match-grade rifles, and compared to M855 shot out of bog-standard grunt M4s. But even though accuracy is the same, POI isn't, so after switching to M855A1 the whole unit has to re-zero. What fun!
It's a shit round. Just an expensive, slightly modernized version of M855 (which is also a shit round) designed to adhere to King Nigger-era training regulations with muh lead-free round. I know you'll never learn that, because you're the same tard who shills for M855A1 in every other thread, so just save us all the trouble and just kill yourself now, before you try to post again.
Chase Carter
Nothing is better than M193.
All 5.56 rounds are WORSE than the original which is some feat.
Xavier Jackson
I didn’t claim it was a armour penetration improvement the Jews taking your tax dollars did.
It destroys your rifles and may not even have superior wound generation capabilities.
This is a Jewish scam.
So don’t shoot the messenger unless it’s with a junk expensive environmentally friendly meme round
Andrew Walker
The Jew will have you fighting the next war with harmless ammunition and broken guns while it licks the cream cheese off its bagel
Ayden Smith
Wait hold the fuckin phone. How was the A10 a German thing?
Justin Scott
Hans was asked for a retarded amount of output for said craft. It for all intent and purpose is a jet powered stuka/190
Nolan Evans
Except Mk262
Carter Cook
No
No
No
Aiden Flores
If we're limiting ourselves to military ammo, I'd say mk 318 fits that list also.
Hunter Peterson
This. Americucks never invented a single thing. They only take the accomplishments of Europeans and claim it as their own or just make shitty knock offs. Americans are what happens when you mix jews and chinks and add niggers to the godawful mix.
Josiah James
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Wyatt Jenkins
If I recall they've got ten levels of armor classification.
Alexander Scott
wew
Kayden Cooper
american not leaf
Jackson Sullivan
They've got nine. Level 4 russian armor is made to stop 7N10 5.45x39mm armor piercing ammunition, fired from an AK-74. So the thread is still stupid since it's the armor is made to stop bullets with steel penetrators. I couldn't find the type of steel used for M855A1 though, other than it being "high strength steel".
The toughest russian armor level is 6a, which is rated for 7,62x54mm armor piercing incendiary (7BZ3) fired from an SVD.
Robert Gomez
Russian armor standards are weird. Class 1 can stop 9x18 makarov Steel penetrator so probably 9mm HP or even FMJ as well. Level 2 can stop 7.62x25 tokarev and so seems to be stronger than 3a that cannot. 2A can stop 12 gauge so it's probably worse than level 1. Level 3 stops AKM or AK74 steel cores so its basically lvl3 NIJ. Level 4 is like level 3 but stops new standard issued 5.45x39"high penetration" with hardened steel core. Beyond that they go with 7.62x54r, same but AP, 7.62x39AP/API etc. There are several different classes that are differentiated only by stopping API rounds and i dunno if one class includes another as lvl 6 stops x54r AP and lvl6A stops x54r API, which one is stronger who the fuck knows.
That's old classification, though.
The new one is a bit simpler but there's less info on that.
Basically:
Lvl 1 - steel core makarov, it's a bit higher than lvl I NIJ
Lvl 2 - 9x19 +p Russian load, FMJ, nearly lvl II NIJ, they probably copied that
Lvl 3 - stops 9x19 AP vodoo magic(albeit older one - 7N21, 7N31 will go through), it's your IIIA NIJ(that one can actually stop the 9mm AP too, surptisingly)
lvl 4 - 5.45/7.62x39mm AP, basically lvl III NIJ
lvl 5 - 7.62x54r AP(all types), basically lvl IV NIJ
lvl 6 - stops 12.7x108mm API(basically .50 BMG from warsaw pact), the only purpose is to show off, i suppose.
There seems to be a trend in Russian army to copy US designs and decisions, probably they don't want to fund their own research or whatever.
Austin Allen
Not just with steel penetrators like m855, 7N10 actually has hardened steel core. It really fels like they like to put these cores into everything and aren't afraid to temper them.
Luis Davis
Price wise M855>M855A1>Mk 318.
M885A1 is the best round design from terminal performance against humanoids point of view ever. It fragments down to at least 1900 FPS has no fleet yaw issues at all, starts fragmenting only after 1 of travel in flesh with 20+ of max penetration and has respectable for non tungsten AP intermediate caliber penetration penetration (goes through level UHMWPE and steel level III plates). Its ideal.
Benjamin Rodriguez
M885A1 goes through 1/4'' AR500 plates, M855 doesn't.
Henry Lee
That's some quality shitposting right here
Adam Myers
Actually, i got it wrong. NIJ classification doesn't consider AP ammo(except IV) while Russian classification does that as a standard.
Kevin Ross
Show me better .223 cal bullet.
Benjamin Rivera
Literally any soft point.
Charles Garcia
Can anyone confirm that the Soviets stopped using the 7.62x25 because it was over powered ? The Makarov seems anemic when compared. Russian don’t seem to go backwards so just wondering why
Xavier Sullivan
Only soft point that fragments and does 20'' of penetration at the same time is Mk 318. Yeah it pretty close to M855A1 but it can't go through level III armor.
Civilian soft points either don't fragment or can't do 20''.
Thomas Diaz
1. 9x18 has better than 7.62x25 stopping power because better kinetic energy transfer.
For Russian and NATO it is and they don't care bout your opinion.
2. 9x18 works with straight blowback.
So Russians specifically designed pistol round that does more damage than 7.62x25 and works with cheaper type of pistols.
Aiden Fisher
They stopped using SMGs in general when the AK got issued to everyone but the MG and DMR guy. 9x18 is perfect for simple blowback guns unlike 7.62 tok.
Thanks. I don't have my slav lackeys around right now to ask benign questions
Caleb Peterson
US Army literally increased procurement costs of everything else so they could say M855A1 is the "cheapest." It still costs more to manufacture.
Every test done by someone who isn't an Army or DoD shill suggests otherwise. M855A1 does even worse on soft targets than M855, which already does pretty badly. The only advantage A1 has is more barrier penetration, but it's still not high enough to qualify as "armor piercing" so who gives a fuck. And the only reason it has that is because M855A1 is loaded to higher than chamber spec and wears out bolts and barrels really fucking fast. If you put that much powder behind a non-retarded bullet it would show similar performance to your overpriced memeround.
Federal XM556FBIT3, Winchester Q3313, or any other soft point with a bonded jacket.
You uneducated nigger, Mk 318 isn't even a soft point round. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, shut the fuck up.
Aaron Turner
Well, the official version is that the round was designed for longer barrels and not very fitted for pistols, causing great muzzle flash, overpenetration and insufficient stopping power. The unofficial one and the one that i think is the main reason to change rounds at all regardless of choice is gun control - tokarev rounds were basically everywhere after the war, as well as guns for them so any population disarming attempt wouldn't work well. They could also choose 9x18 due to their calculated "stopping power" that might have been faked for aforementioned purpose or the need for a more compact police weapon for peaceful time, though the main reason would remain the same. Never trust leftist scum, never rely on their empty promises and never offer them help.
That's a good thing you illiterate mongoloid.
Gavin Walker
As for price military pays for rounds its M855>M855A1>Mk 318. You too can go check US mil budgets ammo procurement is not classified.
thefirearmblog.com
Non fragmenting underperformers
Ryder Bailey
Logan Hernandez
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Noah Martinez
You literally wrote it yourself right now - fragmentation is worse than expansion. Learn to read and kill yourself, you inbred retarded nigger.
Andrew Gonzalez
Juan Edwards
At the cost of temporary cavity. It doesn't do shit.
Bentley Campbell
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Lucas Lewis
I can understand why you are so triggered too Russians can't into fragmenting bullets because laws of war so they stuck with mediocre e tumbling shit.
Hudson Davis
Are you from norway? That's some serious fucking leafposting right here.
Isaiah Price
But i have price proof no less but from US Treasury.
In all real world testing M855A1 starts to fragments dater 1'. It clearly is not tumbling dependent but acts as sort of hollow point tipped bullet, but instead of the polymer tip it has steel tip. BTW long there was copper tipped expanding bullet in US forgot its name. Long banned by ATF as AP round.
Noah Williams
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Adam Kelly
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Cameron Reyes
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Carter Martinez
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Blake Wright
See pics in
Josiah Collins
It’s simple really….
The government can afford to replace barrel and feed ramps as required. A group of resistance fighters can’t. Any captured weapons or equipment will rapidly become worn out and ineffective. The data has shown the billion rounds of 5.56 and tens of millions of rifles they would be against in an uprising that could extend a lasting conflict upwards of twenty years.
Nicholas Long
wot
Logan Wilson
Post another 300 of each so we have something to actually compare.
Colton Walker
Making the barrel extension out of something like D2 tool steel like those high end AR15 bolts would make them hold up just fine. Hammer forged barrels are already work hardened due to the manufacturing process so they already will last, if they wanted to have an even harder barrel surface then they could make them out of more expensive materials like the barrel extension.
Guns are made by the lowest bidder from the cheapest material that is sufficient, paying more quickly gets you a vastly superior firearm.
Justin Sanchez
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Owen Kelly
D2 tool steel has roughly twice the tensile strength of Carpenter 158 while having higher hardness and superior corrosion resistance. So just slightly better than the 2-3% you pulled out of your ass.
Cooper Nguyen
I'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong, I just want to see reliability stress tests, and average part life time expectancy as compared to normal mil-spec parts, a lot of companies will over hype their own stuff for the purpose of garnering interest.
For example, it's not necessarily so that the steel having twice the tensile strength means that it actually will last twice as long.
Ian King
Reposting my comment from another thread
So you niggers actually think M855A1 is a good idea? Why?
It's just a waste of money on (((green))) ammunition, the round itself doesn't provide any real world benefit for the soldiers over M855, or even M193 for that matter, it just costs more and wears out the firearm faster, for no fucking benefit, it doesn't penetrate any armor that the M855 wouldn't, and it doesn't cause more wounding than the M855, and most certainly not more than the M193.
It's just gay faggot shit that will cost a fuckton of money for absolutely no improvement in individual soldier combat ability.
Josiah Davis
The life expectancy of parts such as the bolt in an AR15 is effected by material strength and hardness. Part wear can be thought of as two different processes, one in which load cycling slowly causes the part to fail and the other where the metal is slowly worn away. Material strength effects the first one since the load cycling comes down to how close you get to the materials yield strength each time you load it, if your material is stronger then the yield point is higher and so less wear will occur each time you load cycle it. Material hardness is as the name implies how hard the surface of the material is and by extension its resistance to being scratched, if you have a part such as the feed ramps on a barrel extension being exposed to a hardened steel penetrator then the one made of the harder material will not wear down as easily (if the difference in hardness is enough it won't wear down at all) which is whats relevant to the thread.
In terms of verified reliability, standard AR15 bolts were designed and are built with a safety factor in mind but even after significant use the lugs can still crack and fall off, the infamous AR15 filthy 14 which was run for something like 30,000 rounds with minimal cleaning actually broke two bolt lugs at around 16,500 rounds.
Have they actually confirmed they are using telescoping ammo? unless they have I doubt they are going to go with it.
Jaxon Thomas
Can someone explain to me why the hell would you want environment friendly bullets? I doubt someone worried about polluting the soil would also be worried about making more efficient devices to kill people.
Jack Russell
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Lucas Thomas
It's not for people it's for the ranges.
Lots of ranges are so full of lead it affect local water tables, so the ranges have to pay for decontamination or pretty steep fees.
Xavier Cox
The difference is easily visible from a naked eye inspection. But even if we assume that you're correct, and that the average performance favors M855A1, then its performance increase compared to M855 is so mild as not to justify the myriad negatives of the round.
Jason Turner
Ryan Bell
The fat Jew licks his bagel and smirks.
Andrew Cook
Because EPA are Gods.
Either MoD cleans ALL their lead waste from firing ranges or they do green bullet. MoD picked green bullet option.
Jack Barnes
Fleet yaw. Google it.
Austin Mitchell
Fleet yaw does not explain the obviously smaller wound cavity of M855A1.
Jaxson Reed
MPD explains it.
What fleet yaw explain that M855 terminal effects are unreliable. It can zip thorough body without tumbling.
Also with early fragmenting of M855A1 does much more damage to the limbs (and limbs hits are 50% of all wounds). And with modern use of body armor bullets are forced to rely on peripheral hits much more.
Anthony Ross
Just pick one and stick with it Chaim, this is getting embarrassing.
Grayson Watson
Why? It does both. Its better than M855 against body armor (level III) and with peripheral hits.
Carter Cooper
Oh shut up already, you fucking jew. Your bullet is dogshit.
Parker Young
Not an argument.
Josiah Cruz
This was a primer problem and it's been resolved. Source your claims, faggot. Most of this shit is made-up garbage.
You say this as if this isn't regularly done regardless. Have you ever been in the military?
You realize this round was in development far before he was president, right?
I find it really funny that people like you think they know better than everyone involved testing and developing this shit, when you can't even get your basic facts straight.
Robert Foster
M855A1 was specifically chosen because it is a POG and JSOC wet dream because it can go through steel WWII helmets at 1000 yards, is "green" (ie low lead) because only a west point graduate could think elemental lead was damaging to the environment, and is basically match grade which triples the price per round.
As to why they wanted it to penetrate a WWII helmet… See, Russians kept the same steel shell of a helmet from WWII, but they continued to add improvements inside the helmet which weren't visible from the outside observer. For example their 90s helmet had an aramid fiber liner that was light years ahead of Kevlar. But the superficial resemblance meant retarded Pentagon brats thought Russians were using pure steel helmets about 1/16th of an inch thick, which is why M855A1 had that requirement, and why 5.56 ball was rejected.
Unfortunately a steel bullet has less mass and less momentum than a lead bullet, which means it has less effect on soft target. It's also ridiculously expensive considering it can't penetrate the armor of any of Americas superstate rivals.
Matthew Cox
Your post was solid until this point.
Adrian Diaz
That sounds retarded, why don't I just armor myself with 1 inch of burgers which will fragment this Miracle Weapon, and just have a backstop flak jacket to catch the fragments. Keikakku dori I just invented lightweight armor that can defeat 99% of NATO firearms.
Parker Jackson
Match means they took the time to make sure there were consistent grains in load and consistent grains per casing. Most assault rifle ammo doesn't do this, there's no point considering the engagement range or the purpose of the rifle. M855 was basically match grade too compared to contemporary assault rifle ammo.
Isaiah Hill
No.
Jace Long
I take back anything mean I've ever said about Canada, Leafs are America's true greatest allies. Someone get this man a contract with the DoD and honorary citizenship.
Zachary King
You realize that the bullets are both 62 grains, right?
30-06AP can't penetrate that shit either. Level IV armor is made specifically to counter this threat. Does that mean nothing short of .300winmag will work now?
Idiot, it's about the troops on training grounds. They don't want to have to clean that shit up.
It isn't match grade, and it doesn't triple the price. It's a few cents more, if that, and seems to be doing just fine. In fact, for a while it was causing problems because it was going through the walls on shoot houses. Seems like a job well done to me.
Luis Cook
Yaw is a myth, 55 grain ball killed because it fragmented. Not magical tumbling or minor yawing, because the fucking bullet fragmented so quickly, so violently it acted more like a soft point or hollow point than any FMJ, or any bullet meant for the Hague. Yaw was named as the culprit because some Hague Convention followers didn't like the idea of a bullet that fragmented in flesh and might violate the Convention. Also 55 grain ball sucked fucking dick for penetrating ANYTHING, much less armor of any type. Again, the helmet thing was another excuse, not the real reason. Fragmenting high velocity ball might damage a person, but the same fragile projectile that fragmented in people has a nasty tendency to fragment in pretty much everything else. In combat, barrier penetration is important, so at some point the military wanted a bullet that didn't blow up into a bajillion pieces when it hit any barrier instead of punching through and hitting the guy behind it.
Decrease lethality, yes. Increased barrier penetration, yes. It was a major tradeoff, but it satisfied the humanitarians as well as finding a bullet that could pierce more cover reliably. Green tip may ice pick (nothing to do with barrel twist, 55 grains didn't yaw and tumble they fragmented, 62 grainers stick together and don't fragment in flesh) but it also reaches out and touches.
Bullshit. Like the helmet excuse for green tips, this is a misnomer, and excuse. The entire point of this new round is to keep the barrier penetration of the 62 green tips and hopefully magically add the fragmenting properties of 55 grainers somehow at the same time and get the best of both worlds. Wither they can pull it off as effectively as they claim is another issue entirely.
In overall, its one of that fatal flaws of 5.56/223 is that any bullet really good at tissue destruction will be very poor at barrier penetration, any bullet good at barrier penetration will be poor at tissue damage. This new bullet is trying to save 5.56/223's ass from yet another legitimate criticism's of its shortcomings. (The wonder kids got greedy and picked the smallest cartridge they thought they could get away with. The British were right all along with .270-280 and 224 is simply too small for universal ball applications)
Josiah Gonzalez
Steel .300 winmag doesn't really penetrates level IV either.
William Campbell
Well known problem with armor piercing for a very long time is that increased velocity will often times decrease penetration. At some point the higher velocity causes the bullet to fail, too much stress and dynamics, the physics are all there to cause the bullet to simply shatter, fragment, fail. At some point many rounds have a perfect optimum velocity for penetration, maximum velocity without going over the brink.
This was the cap of standard anti tank high carbon steel armor piercing rounds back in the day. Hyper velocity anti tank rounds didn't come about until they could make tungsten or other hard core material that could withstand impacts at higher velocities without shattering like glass. This meant that standard steel projectiles basically had a velocity ceiling that limited the effectiveness of a caliber, either make a heavier projectile for caliber or build a bigger gun.
Without the right material and build, sometimes faster is worse.
Justin Sanchez
Its just ceramics are too tough for steel.
Modern tank APFSDS are made from tungsten/DU alloya that have tensile strength and elongation than best steels. And they work differently, long rods are eroding penetrators and destroy themselves during penetration. Its just who ends first armor or rod.
Gabriel Cook
Russian nomenclature level IV armour is different from NATO nomenclature level IV, it's rated to stop standard issue 5.45.
Levi Diaz
Plate in question is rated vs 7.62x54R API.
guns.allzip.org
Austin Martinez
KEP development was short term, in a matter of mere years all the major powers had KEP for their front-line armor during the Second World War, keeping a near parallel pace with RHA development. Tungsten has been a strategic resource since before World War One, primarily in mining and high-heat applications, but it's used in KEP development began with the Germans in their Anti-Air shell development, and was swiftly adopted into use in armor by the Brits (APCR) and US (HVAP), with development of the APDS by the Brits debuting in 1943.
Well, for APFSDS is a bit more complicated. Long rod are more recent development and armor thickness has it limitations (in reference to RHA), which is why development in ERA and APS is on the rise, but with that comes segmented long rod penetrators. What makes armors like Dorchester and Chobham so special is their similar function to SAPI carbide based composite plates, as they plates are struck, the composite shatters, causing it to become denser and denser, making penetration a near impossibility as the shatter composite simply absorbs the kinetic energy of the penetrator, cause it to stick in the armor like an arrow.
Cameron James
To carry out that magical feat, it would have to be longer, which would ruin the ability to yaw and create unnecessarily higher chamber pressures. Is it longer?
Also learn how to write nigger I can hardly read that tit-for-tat greentext bullshit comment.
Carter Gomez
The purpose of M855A1 was to make a less yaw-sensitive round.
Tyler Moore
It was disinfo spread by intelligence agencies. Chobham is NERA, similar to what Russians and Iraiqis used in their T-72B and and T-55 Enigma.
Jackson Smith
It is longer.
Actually longer rounds are less stable user. But it doesn't mater because with EPR design (what is now would be used in all bullets and calibers not just M885A1) US went away from tumbling bullets because they are bad and unreliable.
Cameron Wood
It is.
It's using a different powder and while chamber pressures are higher, they are not as high as has been claimed ITT and others. Yes, it's a longer bullet, seated deeper in the case.
I write just fine. Maybe learn how to read, you syrup-sucking butt pirate.