…If Francis made such a statement, it would be rank heresy.
Had the pope been speaking ex cathedra, as the vicar of Christ on earth, he would be contradicting 2,000 years of Catholic doctrine, rooted in the teachings of Christ himself. He would be calling into question papal infallibility, as defined in 1870 by the Vatican Council of Pius IX.
Questions would arise as to whether Francis is a true pope.
The Vatican swiftly issued a statement saying the pope had had a private conversation, not a formal interview, with his friend Scalfari.
The Vatican added: “The textual words pronounced by the pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father.”
Sorry, but this will not do. This does not answer the questions the pope raised in his chat. Does hell exist? Are souls that die in mortal sin damned to hell for all eternity? Does the pope accept this belief? Is this still the infallible teaching of the Roman Catholic Church?…
Oh come on. I'm not a Catholic and I know that he couldn't possibly have said this ex cathedra.
If you claim papal infallibility is a dogma, then teach it correctly, instead of using it as a scare whenever the Pope says something stupid or heretical. Which he probably didn't anyway to begin with.
Jayden Peterson
Also, be respectful of clerical titles. His name is Francis, not Bergoglio.
Sebastian James
Buchanan is not saying Bergoglio said it ex cathedra. He is raising concern over the risks if he does hold these views, and what it could mean in the future. And Buchanan is a Catholic.
Christian Bell
This implies that there even was a risk he said such a thing ex cathedra to begin with. Why would he even say something ex cathedra in an interview?
Alexander Miller
...
Brayden Wilson
No, it doesn't imply that.
Jaxson Taylor
This. Every anti-Francis thread has that in common
You're just missing the point. Even if he says it without it being ex cathedra, the vicar of Christ espousing such heretical views in public carries dire ramifications for the faithful.
I mean, what if during a speech or some other non-clerical event he got up before a crowd and said "Gay sex isn't a sin lol, love wins bigots." That wouldn't concern you simply because it wasn't ex cathedra? Is there anything he could say, or view he could hold that would concern you?
A decent portion of the board is convinced Francis is a stealth satanist who eats the feces of children, I'm not sure being a stickler for etiquette in this regard is a winning battle, or even relevant to discussion
Adam Gonzalez
Then why mention papal infallibility at all if it is indeed completely irrelevant, as it should be?
But anyway, we're done discussing that. If Pope Francis is a heretic, the other bishops will fraternally correct (or rather rebuke) him. If he insists on believing and teaching heresy, he will surely be deposed. Worse things have happened before. Not that he even said anything heretical to begin with. I don't trust some atheist.
He has offered his life for his church, his name is officially Francis now. Call him "diapah-lickin' papa Frankie" if that gives you pleasure, but that's better than calling him with a name that has ceased to be his.
Nathaniel Foster
Feel free to read the whole article by the way. It looks like people here are only commenting on the small excerpt I posted.
Gavin Rivera
Frankly, the bishop of Rome teaching annihilationism would have much lesser ramifications than the bishop of Rome teaching gay sex is fine. Non-Christians, and heck, laypeople don't understand very well the big difference between the various ideas on the exact nature of our eternal destruction, of our second death, besides that it's gonna be painful and eternally condemning and we must avoid it. Something like gay sex is an issue that is much more easy to understand though, especially as it is also political.
But anyway, if he's a heretic, it's the other bishops' job to correct him. If he ends up being deposed, I feel like half of the world's trad Catholics will jump from joy.
But honestly though… why would the Pope have said something so silly? Is he sabotaging himself?
Eli Gonzalez
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Anthony Morales
You don't trust the word of his own friend? Surely Francis himself trusts him if he would call him such. What I don't trust is the boilerplate non-denial from the Vatican.
Well to those of some theological understanding, it's distressing to think that he could hold such views. If he believes such things, aren't you worried the direction his leadership might take the church? The hallmark of Francis' time as pope has been a pervasive sense of confusion which he frankly hasn't taken great pains to dismiss. A rank and file who has no sense of how to proceed is not conducive to strengthening an already spiritually ailing people's faith, I think we're well past the point of arguing that there's no cause for concern. And maybe the lay people wouldn't mind, but any error in belief is another obstacle to salvation, one heresy begets another.
As far as why he would say it aloud, who knows? Maybe he thought it would never be published. Maybe he genuinely believes it is the truth and would like to introduce it to the minds of the faithful in a roundabout way. One thing that would dispel all of this conjecture would be for him to flatly state that he holds no such view and that it is heretical.
And as far as being deposed for heresy, you carry a great deal of faith in the character of the bishops (which I'll admit is commendable), but they too are only human. Deposing a Pope for heresy these days is nearly as unthinkable as the american army declaring martial law and arresting congress for treason. Even if warranted, I don't know that I could trust it would happen, at least not before a great long time of prolonged pain.
Kayden Myers
Why does the Pope keep talking to this man who takes the opportunity to sow confusion about what he believes?
Gabriel Wright
Because the man is just accurately restating what the pope said, and the Vatican is the one sowing confusion with their non-denial denials? Bergoglio wouldn't keep coming back to this guy if he was misrepresenting him.
Dominic Davis
Makes me think
Elijah Smith
BERGOLPFIPO NOT MY POPE IMPEACH NOW
Anthony Thomas
You see no problem with the pope being a heretic? Buchanan is a concerned Catholic conservative. Not a sede. The church is in a grave situation with Bergoglio at the helm. Closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears doesn't help. Nor does running defense for Bergoglio on every shocking statement he makes, blaming it all on the media.
Josiah Gonzalez
Why won't Francis just come out and say "I didn't say that. Hell exists."? His cageyness about these things makes him seem really untrustworthy and that he always has ulterior motives. If he as the head of the Catholic church won't take a stand then who is supposed to?
Ryder Harris
I'll be respectful of clerical titles when the people having them behave like their titles.
Joseph Ward
I trust Bergoglio about as far as I can throw him. It would indeed be easy for him to directly state that he was misquoted and hell exists.
Oh good. It's another episode of "I'm not Catholic and never have been, but something the Pope said disturbs me to my core" brought to you by Concern Trolls, Inc.
Lucas Ortiz
B-but the media will just further misrepresent His Holiness!
Jordan Cook
Pat Buchanan isn't Catholic? You're seriously misinformed.
If anything, this is good news for Roman Catholics because Pope Francis can be labeled as an anti-Pope. After all, Pope Benedict is still alive and well.
Camden Powell
Alright, You know it was comming. Behold pic related
Is anihiliationism even heresy? I've never heard it condemned before
Isaiah Brooks
You've heard it condemned now, Skippy.
Dominic Russell
Two nice articles. But the problem with Benedict is the hell thing isn't the only heresy - the false ecumenism where non-Christian faiths are praised and also seen as paths to God has been spouted by Francis, Benedict, John Paul, Paul VI, since Nostra Aetate from V2. I'd like a pope who thinks Christ is essential.
Leo Phillips
From the catechism
Thomas Jackson
If you're lying, just know that that's wrong.
Lincoln Rogers
Orthodox bishops proclaim Jesus is the only way to salvation.
Nicholas Nguyen
yeah he is
Lucas Long
Pardon me for the bump, but I really don't see this denying the possibility of anihiliationism. This excerpt speaks of the eternity of hell, not the eternity of the existence or experience of suffering of individual souls condemned there.
Dominic Perry
I forwarded a screenshot of that to my pal Skippy and this is what he said back
