I'm apart of the Jehovah's Witnesses

Sorry i see the addendum now, I assumed you were just being insulting for the sake of it

Same.

Thanks guys. I am really hoping and praying that I can get out of this somehow.

So, how many churches are there and which one is best to join?

Also, is John 1:1 supposed to be "the Word was God" or "the Word was a god"? I did some research online but it didn't really help answer the question. I don't know Greek tbh.

My dad died when I was only a few months old. I think part of the reason why my mom became a JW was because it helped her in her grief.

See
Chrstians say the former, unitarians the latter. They each have their reasons, I haven't looked into it myself and just take it on authority, but it would be wise to look into them considering this is an issue for you. Yt probably has vids if you're research hasn't helped so far.

I'm sorry to hear that, my first post might have been a little harsh.
But as I said here you need to convert for her sake even if she shuns you.

The Greek points to "was God." The church, since antiquity, has also supported the Trinity.

There are three main branches of the Christian faith.
-Catholicism
-Eastern Orthodoxy
-Protestantism

How much do you know about each? We're more than happy to teach you so that you can find your way to Christ.

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Word was God

Only one, but there's way too many denominations.
Orthodox.

I know the pope leads the Roman Catholic church and they're for works salvation while Protestants are for faith? Eastern Orthodox I know nothing about other than that they're mostly Russian and have fancy rituals. What's the difference between Lutheran and Baptist Protestants?

I understand the sentiment, but remember:

Why?

Then dont leave organization, If I were you I would try to convert them to apostolic christianity from within.

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Many reasons but the theology mostly.

What part of the theology?

I would say the Orthodox doctrine on salvation.

Hello former brother (or sister.)

I'm an ex-witness. I'm going to keep this short. Stay away from the Catholics and any of the Carter-esque "Born again" churches. IF you want to remain a Christian, for whatever reason, (I'm guessing simply that like me, it's all you knew) try a protestant church.

The Organization Jehovah's Witnesses vary from church to church, but for the most part are alright people. But as a whole, the church sucks, and is full of shit (pardon the language, I understand this is a Christian board.

The only thing I can say is you made a mistake by allowing yourself to be baptized, because if you leave the church, you'll be disfellowshiped, which in a far worse punishment than simple catholic style ex-communication. But, in a sad way, it's the only way you'll ever truly be free, and if your family AT ALL cares about your well being, they'll ignore the nonsense doctrines an embrace your decisions as your own in due time.

I'm sorry for what you're going through, I truly am. Because being a Witness is a fate worse than death. Almost worse than Mormonism.

youtube.com/watch?v=iYZsHLZPWZY

made me smile

If you go into the world there will be serious consequences…

The Sahidic Coptic text uses the indefinite article. Fact of the matter is that it's a valid translation as evidence by early translations of the Greek into other languages.

Hi OP, again. My mother died from cancer when i was 15. You know what those bastards in the church told me? Be glad that I'm learning the teachings of Jehovah because I'll see her again in the Resurrection.

Fuck those people. Fuck that cult. Get out while you can and go find a protestant church.

Orthodox are from the mostly Greek churches that refused to submit to the Archbishop of Rome as supreme pope. Russia is mostly Orthodox, and probably the largest patriachate, but we are everywhere.

Lutherans are from Martin Luther's revolution against the Roman church in the 16th century, and baptists came later by proclaiming that every Christian had to be rebaptisted (they believe in "believer's baptism" and nearly every Christian at that point had been baptized as an infant).

JWs aren't christians. They deny the divinity of Christ reducing him to just another created thing, and even have their perverse translation which adds and removes words to support this heresy, a modern version of arianism born of a random retard in America less than two centuries ago through some paid subscription

All this nonsense is why giving the Bible to the lay people was a huge mistake. All these LARPing retards who emotionally blackmail you into submission of a theologically bankrupt monstrosity. The minds of the people you know are more poisoned than you can imagine

No. Catholic position: salvation by grace alone. And the acceptance of grace involves both faith (assent of the truth of Christ) and works (love and charity) any of those two without the other is dead.

I'm gonna answer your questions in a couple posts.

The Lutheran Church or Lutheranism was founded on the theology of the ex-Catholic monk Martin Luther during the 16th century to reform Christianity with the teaching of justification by grace through faith alone (though that wasn't the sole reason). They believe that humans are saved from their sins by God’s grace alone (Sola Gratia), through faith alone (Sola Fide). By God’s grace, made known and effective in the person and work of Jesus Christ, a person is forgiven and given eternal salvation. Faith receives the gift of salvation rather than causes salvation. As far as the Sacraments are concerned, they value these as means of grace working towards sanctification and justification. Baptism for Lutherans is a means of grace and the mode of application is not important, but is usually delivered by the sprinkling of water. There is no proper age for baptism and the only necessities for a valid baptism are “water and the Word." In Holy Communion, they believe that bread and wine actually are the Body and Blood of Christ. They are accustomed to using real wine instead of substitutes or just bread alone. In addition, their communal celebration strictly follows the order of Catholic Mass and is usually observed with many “rituals” and sung liturgies.
Note: There are a good number of liberal Lutheran churches that would more closely resemble something like mainstream Evangelicals. The little blurb here applies to traditional, Orthodox Lutherans.

The Baptist Church, on the other hand, can be traced back to 1609 with the initiatives of English Separatist, John Smyth. They reject baptism of infants and instead, institute it only in believing adults. Salvation for Baptists is through faith alone (Sola Fide) and they recognize Scripture alone as the rule of faith and practice (Sola Scriptura). Baptists believe that faith is a matter between God and the individual. In contrast to Lutheran belief, Baptists view Baptism as a testimony of a preceding act of repentance and the acceptance of Christ as a personal Savior. It is administered by full immersion as symbolic of the total washing away of sins. Only persons of an age to decide this for themselves and make a personal decision can be considered saved, thus the term believer’s baptism. In Holy Communion, they regard the bread and wine only as a symbolic representation of the body and blood. Substitutes are therefore acceptable; grape juice instead of wine, for instance. Their worship services are less formal and more interactive than that of Lutheran services.

Both Lutheran and Baptist churches believe in the same God (the Holy Trinity), pertain to the same Bible and hold communal gatherings. Lutherans believe in the teaching of justification by faith alone just like Baptists. The main differences lie in the sacraments and the content of services.

I had no real choice in being baptize. It was suppose to be done on my own decision but I was really pressured. It was the worst choice I ever made though :(

Lay Bible reading is nearly as old as Christianity. St. John Chrsystom gave several homilies against laypeople not reading the Bible enough.

I don't think you should exchange one poison with the poison of protestantism, and their 4857384758347 "choose your own Christianity" denominations where you even encourage him to choose the heresies he fancies the most.

Witnesses believe in the divinity of Christ. They reject the Crucifixion. They're also Christian-Zionists who believe they're practicing the "Original" form of Christianity from the 1st century.

Which didn't exist because the Church wasn't created until almost 400 years after Christ was executed by The Roman Empire.

Still a mistake to have any Bible reading which isn't unders the strict supervision of experts.

You have no idea of what you are talking about.

The major consequence will be salvation

But JWs don't use the Sahidic Coptic translation, so what is your point?
Honestly, lad, did you think offering another bad ttranslationwpuld be good arguement?

You had a choice. They just made it seem like you didn't. Trust me. I was raised in that cult, and was even pressured into study and trying to pioneer. My parents didn't give enough of a shit, thankfully, and eventually I turned my back on the church and it's bullshit doctrine.

Nevermind, didn't see you were an overall braindead child

I'm an Ex-Witness. I clearly know more about this nonsense than you.

You don't, since you don't even know something basic like the fact that JWs consider Christ to be just an spiritual creation, which is why their translation, among other things, adds the word "other" when describing how God, with Christ, created all things

Then make a better argument then because what you wrote was trash

...

Pardon me if this is incorrect because I'm a noob, but my understanding is:

Lutheran
>borne of the first person, a Catholic monk, to kickstart the reformation, Martin Luther, who wanted to reform the Catholic church which he saw as corrupt and unbiblical at the time (1500s). He didn't intend for it to grow into a full blown revolution (that was the protestant reformation) which split off the Catholic church into a separate church

key difference is church polity, where each congration is largely independent but certain groups get together in associations to affirm doctrine and theological approaches to distinguish them from other baptist groups with different views and other churches/branches of christianity

mfw you beat me to it and did a much better job than me enjoyed reading user thanks

key difference is church polity

should be formatted

Baptist

damn my pedantry

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Talk to a priest, often church families can support people like you as you get on your feet.

Off-topic, but as a recently converted Christian with a leaning towards Protestantism, I don't see a practical difference between faith only, and faith and works. I cannot conceive how faith could exist in a vacuum. Works are the inevitable fruit of faith. Faith without works is surely not really faith but self-serving belief.

The Church was founded by Christ after His Resurrection. You can read about the beginnings of the Church in the Book of Acts, as the 12 Apostles traveled around and created new parishes throughout the ancient Roman Empire. Both secular and Jewish authorities provided a great deal of persecution persisted for many years, and millions of Christians were killed and imprisoned. The Church thrived underground.

Christianity only became legal in the fourth century, when Constantine I formed the First Council of Nicea, which wrote the Nicene Creed. This creed is still used plainly throughout the Church of England, the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, though all genuine Christian denominations at heart teach its doctrine. To be Christian, you must believe in the Nicene Creed.

After the demise of the Roman Empire, the church expanded its missionary work in the rest of the world and the faith spread widely through the Germanic, Slavic, Celtic, Viking, Finn, and Hungarian people. After about 630, Muhammad's cult of Islam began to increase quickly and soon conquered previously Christian countries such as Spain and most of North Africa. Though ascetics had persisted in the deserts for centuries, this period also saw the rise of formalized monasteries in the East and West.

Over about seven centuries the church gradually divided into two sections, the Western and Eastern branches, known today as the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. There are a number of administrative and theological disagreements between the two sides, the most notable being the issue of papal supremacy (this refers to the Pope’s authority over the church, and how far it should extend). There have been two attempts at reuniting the churches in the past and current talks are ongoing.

I just copied and slightly edited an article. I like your explanation, actually.

W-why?

Demons have faith, because they know Christ is God, but they do not love. Works are not the fruit of faith, but of God's grace, just like faith.

Obviously, faith should encourage us to pursue that behaviour, but it may not be the case, which is why we are told that faith without works (love and mercy) is dead. We aren't told that "it is not actual faith", but that it is dead faith, and that demons, too believe.

Sure, it may be more unusual, but it is still possible that someone has no problem assenting divine truths, but then having acts and a mind filled with filth.

So are you one of the 144000 annointed?

Translations into Coptic were available by the third century C.E., so they can give us insight into how the Greek text was understood at that time. This may be of special interest when it comes to the much debated second part of Joh 1:1, which in many translations reads: “And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Unlike Koine Greek, Syriac, and Latin, the Sahidic Coptic dialect does have an indefinite article (in some ways corresponding to “a” and “an” in English). As shown here, the two occurrences of the Coptic word for “God” (highlighted) look slightly different—the first one (1) with the definite article (circled in red) and the second one (2) with the indefinite article (circled in red). Thus, when rendered literally into English, the translation would read: “And the Word was with the God, and the Word was a god.”

how does it feel to live a meme

Aw thanks m8

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The faith and works debate that sparked in early protestantism had to do with the Latin church's over insistence on indulgences instead of the traditionally orthodox view of repentance for salvation.

protestants dont think like you
for them roman catholic church is from the beginning false church under the authority by roman emperor and never been christian

Never seen a Christian use C.E. instead of A.D. before
I still haven't

It feels like they are fishing for any corroboration tbh

Indulgences are not related at all to salvation. You thin that there is this unique, pure special orthodox doctrine. There isn't, that is just a delusion as a reuslt of your propaganda ridden nonsense about le ebil papists.

Both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have detailed histories that can be traced back to Christ Himself; they had a split more than a millennia ago over a number of conflicts that are complicated and rather difficult to summarize quickly. Both can make a solid case for being the original church, and both in fact do that exact thing.
Despite their differences, Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism have many commonalities. They believe in the Trinity, that Jesus was both a man and God, in the real presence during Holy Communion, the Resurrection, that Christ will come again, and many other things. There are also many surface-level similarities like the structure of services and clergy.

As notes, most Protestants would deny that either the Catholic or Orthodox Churches are "true," and would argue that they've been subverted to some degree.

Despite the meme, Roman Catholics don't believe that works can save you. In their words:

The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. The Church teaches that it's God's grace from beginning to end which justifies, sanctifies, and saves us. As Paul explains in Philippians 2:13, "God is the one, who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work."

Notice that Paul's words presuppose that the faithful Christian is not just desiring to be righteous, but is actively working toward it. James 2:17 reminds us that "faith of itself, if it does not have work, is dead." In verse 24 James says, "See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." And later: "For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead" (2:26).

So, far from teaching a doctrine of "works righteousness" (that would be Pelagianism, which was condemned at the Council of Carthage in A.D. 418), the Catholic Church teaches the true, biblical doctrine of justification.

Thanks for the explanation. I will contemplate this further.

Tough luck. I know some people with similar backgrounds and they're usually either full retarded sodomites or the minority of very strict and honorable adults. I think it has to do if you learn to be your own father figure of sorts.
Good luck, I think you'll make it.

I exposed myself to a lot of Kierkegaard as an atheist. I would probably not have come to Christianity were it not for him, so his influence is strong.

OP, best advice I can give you is to simply read the Bible. The Jehovah Witnesses have their own altered version so toss that away and go pick up a real version of the Bible. There are many English translations so pick the one that best suites you and do your research.

I know you grew up in a very oppressive atmosphere, but the God that we true Christians serve is not like that. Yes, we need to strive through the narrow gate, but God loves us all and commands that we be saved. Jesus said that His yoke is easy and burden light. He knows your faults and your weaknesses, don't be afraid to step out in the Spirit and to truly Seek God (Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit).

Lastly, I've embedded a testimony from an ex-Jehovah Witness. Hope this helps, God bless.

Surprised that bait slipped through. 4/10

On you, perhaps.

Jehovah is not the name of God.

Oh yeah, and lastly, you need to pray. I understand that Witnesses don't believe in prayer. But you need to pray and cry out to God. Here's a good 24/7 live resource to help you get started: youtube.com/user/IHOPkc/live

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God = |Jehovah| + |Jesus Christ| + |Holy Spirit|

Just because some cult hijacked the name of the Father doesn't make it false. Read your Bible. God bless.

How can your 19th century cult compare to the actual Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church which is 2000 years old? Come back to Orthodoxy, and bring your family and friends too.

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Thank you.

Yes, OP you need to read and affirm the following creeds:
- Nicene Creed
- Apostles' Creed
- Athanasian Creed

Every Christian denomination on this board affirms and upholds those three creeds. Read them every day if you must. Also read your Bible (not the NWT)

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What's the best Bible version? The only one I've used is the New World Translation.

It depends on what you're looking for, but generally speaking you'd want to use the KJV, OSB, or RSVCE for an English translation.

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On me, certainly; but surely you are not unaware of his profound influence on philosophy (as the first existentialist), theology, psychology, and his unmasking of false Christianity ("Christendom").

Stop.

Go talk to the elders about your thoughts and questions and they will guide you. I tell you that if you leave then you will never EVER be right in the eyes of Jehovah God ever again. You will for certain not be apart of the anointed 144,000. As an anointed myself I am warning you!

This man has finally found Christ, the Son of the Living God, and you're trying to stop him from reaching salvation! Behind me, satan!

God dont need names its human invention
God is God, I Am that I Am

get out heathen. this is a christian board.

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If you'd continued reading you'd know he already wants to leave the JWs and find a real church. Don't be an asshole.

NO! You blasphemers are leading him away from the truth! He is naive and doesn't know much and you are manipulating that to pull him away from Jehovah! Jehovah will destroy you all forever in a very violent way for this!

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Extra brooklynus nulla sallus?

ESV ain't bad

your in a cult, user. The REAL truth is that Jesus is God. Jehovah Witnesses have been lairs and deceivers for over 100 years. Why dont you go and just look up their history…
You are the one who will be punished for being part of an organization that is the cause of tens of thousands of people dying due to refusal of blood transfusions. Repent or burn heathen

And who is "Jehovah"? never heard of that doofus before.

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Watch this

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

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Jehovah is God the Father, the real problem is the Jehovah Witnesses deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God and they also deny the Holy Spirit. God (Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit) is the Trinity, as depicted very neatly when Jesus Christ was being baptized and the Holy Spirit was sent by Jehovah in the form of a dove.

If anything, Jehovah Witnesses have more in common with Islam as in both (false) religions deny Jesus is the Christ (they say He was simply a good man) and they insist on only worshipping the Father (but the Bible clearly says Jesus is the Way). On top of this, Jehovah Witnesses deny the Holy Spirit and they also don't believe in prayer.

It's like all these false religions and cults go out of their way to deny Jesus is the Christ and deny the power of the cross.

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The important thing is you read the Bible with the force and power of the Holy Spirit. You need to read the Word of God, with the Eyes of God. Stop following man, stop following some man-made organization, and follow God (Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit). See this, the Holy Spirit isn't some "force" like they teach you over at Kingdom Hall, the Holy Spirit is God. Remember in the Bible where God says His Words do not come back void. He can use a misled pastor, a book with the wrong title on it, it doesn't matter. His Words are like diamonds falling from the sky. What matters is that you seek Him and follow Him in the Spirit: God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:24). You need to pray, pray, and pray. Start praying like you have never prayed before. Man cannot free man, never could, never will. Only God can free you. Seek and you will find.

Seek God (Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit)

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I read this post with the power of the Holy Spirit and I can confirm it is modernist protestant garbage.

I don't think this is true. Wasn't it legalized 13 years earlier in the Edict of Milan?

Sorry, I missed that one. I grabbed the text from an article to save time, but there were details I edited since it had some inaccuracies.

If this is Riley, 1) phac u and 2) get back in touch with me boyo, it's "Tony" your friend from middleschool and 3) Χρήστος ανέστη

Investigate your local Catholic and/or Orthodox church. Seek out a priest, explain your situation and ask for their advice. As many others in this thread have indicated, JW is a deeply heretical sect wherein the truth of Christ cannot be found; you must search beyond it.

Now, whether you end up leaving JW is your business – of course anyone on this board would support it, but, as you said, it is a complex and difficult situation.

The papacy is directly descended from the original Twelve Apostles of Christ, specifically the ministry of Saint Peter, hence the Pope claims the title of Saint Peter's "successor." Roman Catholics believe that Christ's handing the Heavenly Keys to Saint Peter indicated or instilled a special superiority to him, which is why the Pope has authority over other bishops. Greek Orthodox, however, believe the nature of this superiority (or primacy) has a, let us say, less radical nature. From this difference comes a slew of other differences – mostly very technical or theological – which have yet to be resolved.

People should indeed have ready access to Scripture – Christ's words in the Gospels are most often towards peasants and simplefolk, after all. However, interpretation is sometimes a nuanced business which requires rather complex historical-contextual or philosophical data which most people either do not have access to or cannot understand, hence the various splinter-branches of Protestantism whereby doctrinal differences as slim as a human hair result in even more splintering. This is why, from a Catholic (and Orthodox) perspective, authoritative tradition is important, because it binds people together so they cannot just run off to start their own churches; they must resolve disputes within the community – which is exactly what we see when we analyse the early Church, and why it took so long for certain doctrines to be codified.

The Book of Acts was written around 75AD at the latest.

Jehovah is merely a corruption of the unpronouncable YHWH.
>The consensus among scholars is that the historical vocalization of the Tetragrammaton at the time of the redaction of the Torah (6th century BCE) is most likely Yahweh. The historical vocalization was lost because in Second Temple Judaism, during the 3rd to 2nd centuries BCE, the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided, being substituted with Adonai ("my Lord"). The Hebrew vowel points of Adonai were added to the Tetragrammaton by the Masoretes, and the resulting form was transliterated around the 12th century as Yehowah. The derived forms Iehouah and Jehovah first appeared in the 16th century. [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah]
The true name of God is exposed in Exodus 3:14: "’ehyeh ’ăšer ’ehyeh" – "I am who I am."
>The revelation of the ineffable name "I AM WHO I AM" contains then the truth that God alone IS. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, and following it the Church's tradition, understood the divine name in this sense: God is the fullness of Being and of every perfection, without origin and without end. All creatures receive all that they are and have from him; but he alone is his very being, and he is of himself everything that he is. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 213) [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am]

The RSV or even the NRSV are both excellent, through most modern translations, provided they are sourced from the earliest manuscripts, are decent. Keep in mind that the Bible is a whole history unto itself, and any reading you do should be slow, considerate and, essentially, meditative. Make sure to study what you read, learn the history of the books, learn their context, etc.. The Bible is not a novel, it is the word of the Lord and should be comprehended, not glossed over or rushed through.

2/10.

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Former JW here as well, who was in pretty much the exact situation you're in. I've spent the better part of a decade looking for an actual solution to what you're going through. Leaving the JWs is actually the easy part, your mom will come around after the initial shock of leaving the fold wears off. The problem is finding a denomination that hasn't kowtowed to the pervasive political cult that currently dominates the scene. I can't in good faith follow doctrine that implicitly concedes spiritual authority to secularist forces.

Listen.

I understand. Even the Mormons, they will testify being in the Celestial Room and that the power of the Holy Spirit spoke to them. All I'm saying is, there is one God, the Truth, and as Christians if we truly are saved, then we will be of one accord, united as one in the Body of Christ. The Roman Branch is wrong, but so are the haters of the Roman Branch. We need to be united under God. When Satan comes after us, he's not going to care if we're Roman Catholic, non-denominational, etc. Sure there are differences in the way we approach worshipping our Creator (read 1 Corinthians), we may have different opinions regarding the exact approach regarding baptism, but at the end of the day, we are the people of The Way, and The Way is Jesus Christ.

God bless.

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There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

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We are not saved. Nor you, nor me.

There are no branches. There is the Church created by Christ, and then there are groups that can be traced to some random man with no authority.

There are no opinions. There is revealed truth. It doesn't matter if you say "Jesus is the Way", if then you come up with whatever you want about Jesus. That is precisely why JWs or Mormons exist.