Zig Forums perspective on National Socialism

What does Zig Forums think of Hitler, the Third Reich and National Socialism? I'm fully aware of race realism and the Jewish Question, but I recognize that those things don't mean the Nazis were right. I'm not a Holocaust denier either.
Was Hitler a good guy even if he did some bad things? In what ways was the Third Reich just and and what was was it evil? Is the ideology of National Socialism compatible with Christianity?

My point in making this thread: If Zig Forums is wrong, then it's necessary to show them why they're wrong. Liberal talking points don't work because Liberalism has the facts wrong, and is itself a spiritual poison. People become Nazis because they are shown irrefutable facts, but those facts don't take into account the spiritual side.

What are your thoughts?

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Hitler was a devout atheist. He allowed his flunkies to push paganism because, while he hated religion, he knew some people found it necessary and he thought he could control that better than Christianity.

He gave lip-service to Christianity in public speechs or there would have been a popular uprising to stop stop but privately, so far as accounts go, he hated the religious.

Racism is against what Paul writes in Galatians - no division should matter except those who believe and those who don't. Other labels make us forget all Christians are brothers and sisters.

Socialism is always evil because its ineffective. Messing with the free-market sucks. Income redistribution through taxation is okay, but regulating the market and government owned business is a sure way to economic disaster long term.

Hitler was economically short-sighted, a bad general, and an evil man. His successes were those of the German people. Germans would've been great if not for the disaster of WWI which was brought upon them by a jealous Europe and Great Britian. But, so bitter were they, the gave Hitler power. I feel sorry for the Germans but they were weak and Hitler was an asshat.

That sums it up nicely. Capped for future threads.

Also, as to the Jewish Question.

There's nothing wrong with the genetically Jewish - many of the earliest and most important Christians, Christ included were genetically from the tribe of Judah. The modern Jewish issue is one of culture and that can only be stopped by example of a better counter-culture, which Christians recently haven't been doing a good job with.

Abandon all politics and go to Christ alone for your wisdom in all things. Every other ideology and philosophy is worthless trash that will be destroyed at the Second Coming of Our Lord. Only those who stand with Him in everything and has made Him their all will be with the righteous on Judgment Day. All of this is just vanity (and I mean all of it, not just the Nazis, but the Commies, Libertarians, Liberals, Anarchist, everyone everywhere).

I'm no expert on German National Socialism or Hitler, but I found somethings on communism and socialism in general.

Worth reading 1/2:

Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscum, December, 8, 1849:

6. You are aware indeed, that the goal of this most iniquitous plot is to drive people to overthrow the entire order of human affairs and to draw them over to the wicked theories of this Socialism and Communism, by confusing them with perverted teachings. But these enemies realize that they cannot hope for any agreement with the Catholic Church, which allows neither tampering with truths proposed by faith, nor adding any new human fictions to them. This is why they try to draw the Italian people over to Protestantism, which in their deceit they repeatedly declare to be only another form of the same true religion of Christ, thereby just as pleasing to God. Meanwhile they know full well that the chief principle of the Protestant tenets, i.e., that the holy scriptures are to be understood by the personal judgment of the individual, will greatly assist their impious cause. They are confident that they can first misuse the holy scriptures by wrong interpretation to spread their errors and claim God's authority while doing it. Then they can cause men to call into doubt the common principles of justice and honor.

18. As regards this teaching and these theories, it is now generally known that the special goal of their proponents is to introduce to the people the pernicious fictions of Socialism and Communism by misapplying the terms "liberty" and "equality." The final goal shared by these teachings, whether of Communism or Socialism, even if approached differently, is to excite by continuous disturbances workers and others, especially those of the lower class, whom they have deceived by their lies and deluded by the promise of a happier condition. They are preparing them for plundering, stealing, and usurping first the Church's and then everyone's property. After this they will profane all law, human and divine, to destroy divine worship and to subvert the entire ordering of civil societies. In this critical period for Italy, it is your duty, venerable brothers, to help the faithful realize that if they let themselves be deceived by such perverted doctrines and theories, these theories will cause their temporal and their eternal destruction.

19. Therefore, warn your faithful that the very nature of human society obligates its members to obey its lawfully established authority; nothing in the precepts of the Lord on this subject, which are proclaimed in holy scripture, can be altered. For it is written: "Be subject to every human institution for God's sake, to the king as supreme or to governors as sent by him to punish wrongdoers and to praise those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing right, you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men. Be as free men, yet without using freedom as a pretext for evil, but be as servants of God."[16] And again: "Let ever soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore, he who resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur their own condemnation."[17]

20. Let them furthermore know that it is likewise a mark of the natural, and so of the immutable, condition of human affairs that even among those who are not in higher authority, some surpass others in different endowments of mind or body or in riches and such external goods; therefore it can never be lawful under any pretext of liberty or equality to usurp or injure in any way the good or rights of other men. Divine precepts on this subject are clear and can be found throughout the holy scriptures. They forbid us strictly even to desire the goods of other men, much less seize them.[18]

16.I Pt 2.13f.
17.Rom 13:1f.
18. Ex 20.45, 17. Dt 5.19, 21.

2/2

Qui Pluribus (On faith and religion), Pius IX, Nov. 9, 1846

13. You already know well, venerable brothers, the other portentous errors and deceits by which the sons of this world try most bitterly to attack the Catholic religion and the divine authority of the Church and its laws. They would even trample underfoot the rights both of the sacred and of the civil power. For this is the goal of the lawless activities against this Roman See in which Christ placed the impregnable foundation of His Church. This is the goal of those secret sects who have come forth from the darkness to destroy and desolate both the sacred and the civil commonwealth. These have been condemned with repeated anathema in the Apostolic letters of the Roman Pontiffs who preceded Us[15] We now confirm these with the fullness of Our Apostolic power and command that they be most carefully observed.

14. This is the goal too of the crafty Bible Societies which renew the old skill of the heretics and ceaselessly force on people of all kinds, even the uneducated, gifts of the Bible. They issue these in large numbers and at great cost, in vernacular translations, which infringe the holy rules of the Church. The commentaries which are included often contain perverse explanations; so, having rejected divine tradition, the doctrine of the Fathers and the authority of the Catholic Church, they all interpret the words of the Lord by their own private judgment, thereby perverting their meaning. As a result, they fall into the greatest errors. Gregory XVI of happy memory, Our superior predecessor, followed the lead of his own predecessors in rejecting these societies in his apostolic letters.[16] It is Our will to condemn them likewise.

15. Also perverse is the shocking theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory which is greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile action. They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between justice and iniquity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Christ and Belial.

16. The sacred celibacy of clerics has also been the victim of conspiracy. Indeed, some churchmen have wretchedly forgotten their own rank and let themselves be converted by the charms and snares of pleasure. This is the aim too of the prevalent but wrong method of teaching, especially in the philosophical disciplines, a method which deceives and corrupts incautious youth in a wretched manner and gives it as drink the poison of the serpent in the goblet of Babylon. To this goal also tends the unspeakable doctrine of Communism, as it is called, a doctrine most opposed to the very natural law. For if this doctrine were accepted, the complete destruction of everyone's laws, government, property, and even of human society itself would follow.

Pope Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno (# 120), May 15, 1931: “Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.”

Steven Anderson had a good video criticizing Hitler. It had good historical facts. Unfortunately looking up 'Hitler Steven Anderson' on Youtube now just brings up liberal videos comparing the pastor to Hitler. Anyone have a link to the video?

This.

Can't really argue with that. I want to clarify the bit about racism though. Obviously murdering other people because of their race is wrong, but is it OK to recognize that differences exist? Christians knew this for centuries before modern political correctness.

I agree. I'm partially Jewish myself.
Also agree with that. Modern Jews (especially secular ones) have major issues. But it's not just a modern thing. Jews (not all, but some) have been causing problems for Christian civilization for centuries.

Paul talks about (1) there being no difference among us as Christians and (2) different roles for us in the body of Christ and different spiritual gifts


If you label people for the purpose of helping them find their place in Christ's body, e.g. what they individually are better suited for, that's fine (tall, smart, good-looking, strong, etc.)

When you start applying labels based on appearance, you start missing the important factors and the fact that generalizations to groups are not necessarily true of the individual.

Knowing that secular folks tend to gravitate towards secular folks like them, I have no problem sending a Christian who "looks like" the locals in order to evangelize them.

However, race is a social construct (albeit with genological underpinnings). Don't use those labels, they affect the way you think and they are not useful.

On that last point- I would be happy to debate the usefulness of racial categories if you truly feel differently because, honestly, I don't see how they do anything but divide us.

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Oh, Zig Forums, when will you learn

I agree, fellow pede.


Nazism goes against the fundamental Christian virtues of kindness and equality.


Hitler believed Germany should practice nationalism and protectionism when globalism is the only moral option because all are one in Christ.


Most importantly, Hitler always harmed the Jews who are God's chosen people and Jesus was a Jew so killing Jews was like killing Jesus.

I also forgot to mention the importance of Israel and why we should all read the Schofield Bible. Once all the Jews are together again in Israel Jesus will come back and take us into heaven while the Jews get to stay and rule the world like G-d promised them.

I cannot wait until world peace, woman's rights, and gay equality come to this Earth as Jesus wanted, so his death on the cross wasn't in vain

Soon our muslim brothers in Christ will help show us to be more tolerant and loving just like Jesus wanted.


Amen, fellow Christians. See you in church on Saturday.

we-freaking-w

:^)

:^)

Apostates who lead many into perdition. Read this and tell me they were Christian: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

Works great for those who take Marxism seriously, but leaves room for ChristCom Gang as we know it today

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Really? I don't see how any communist or socialist position survives that, but I'm not familiar with their argument(s).

> As regards this teaching and these theories, it is now generally known that the special goal of their proponents is to introduce to the people the pernicious fictions of Socialism and Communism by misapplying the terms "liberty" and "equality." The final goal shared by these teachings, whether of Communism or Socialism, even if approached differently, is to excite by continuous disturbances workers and others, especially those of the lower class, whom they have deceived by their lies and deluded by the promise of a happier condition. They are preparing them for plundering, stealing, and usurping first the Church's and then everyone's property.

Let them furthermore know that it is likewise a mark of the natural, and so of the immutable, condition of human affairs that even among those who are not in higher authority, some surpass others in different endowments of mind or body or in riches and such external goods; therefore it can never be lawful under any pretext of liberty or equality to usurp or injure in any way the good or rights of other men. Divine precepts on this subject are clear and can be found throughout the holy scriptures. They forbid us strictly even to desire the goods of other men, much less seize them.

Paul doesn't say that all people are without differences in the Church. For example, Paul says that there is no distinction between man and woman in Christ. However, he outlines differences between men and woman in the Church, such as that women should have their head covered in the churches and that, while women may "prophesy," they should not teach. And that's just inside of church. Paul is not calling for the abolition of all social order and hierarchical institutions in the secular world.


They are not useful? They are necessary because they are how the rest of society sees the world. It is like saying that that the English language is not useful because the meaning of words is arbitrary (the same sound or letters could just as easily mean one thing as another), and so we should give up verbal communication. And as you yourself suggest, racial categories are less arbitrary than language.

"No"
/thread

The nazis killed jews which are the chosen people of God :^)

I actually preferred the German Empire.
National socialism isn't that bad, it was pretty racist, but it wasn't even the racism known and practiced in the Christian days of America. Zig Forums fails to understand that people want to be with their own kind not just by faith because it would be impossible to achieve. There is a reason why the Vaticans have always rooted for Nationalism.

Also, if the Vatican Church hated Nazis why did they helped them escape when they (the Nazis) had no power to coerce the church into their rule? Really makes you think.