I don't want debates with Catholics, I'm just done with Catholicism. I'm a 21 year old cradle Catholic and I'm tired of putting up with mental gymnastics of defending the Church itself, the practices of the religion and those that are part of it.
Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy or whatever other beliefs are here, convince me to join your denomination.
By the end of this thread I want to be convinced of a different denomination altogether.
Thanks for any input and help.
Also @mods: this is not a troll thread, so please don't delete it.
Only child/10
I think your best option is to create the 30001th protestant denomination, so that you will getwhat you ask for: the complete "create your own Christianity" kit. So really, there is no need for anyone to convince you of anyhting, since you can make up whatever you like.
If you don't have anything to contribute, then don't post.
You can try looking into essence energy distinctions with orthodoxy. And see where orthodoxy grounds its self in it's roots that's what i've been doing these past couple of months.
Thanks. Any particular resources you'd recommend?
I got a channel that's helped me out a lot youtube.com
I'm just telling you the truth. If you don't like the answers you will get, then don't ask.
I'm pointing out that you're unfit to make life altering decisions in your current state because of your shortcomings. If you disagree bring me some proof instead of acting butthurt.
This is most likely a troll thread.
*Err excuse me the soul after death.* But to make it quick the best way to sum up what orthodoxy thinks of heaven in hell, is C.S Lewis's book the great Divorce is a good basic answer to the common public. But if you want a more in depth answer which is what im looking for i got father seraphim rose's book for that more in depth answer.
What's the point of this thread if you don't even say what's your problem with Catholicism? How do you expect to receive an answer if you don't tell what made you abandon your previous beliefs?
Oh yea that's true Op, you should at least explain some of the issues of why you're thinking of converting to another faith. Personally even the orthodox i was talking to said i should take time with this and consider before jumping into this.
Dang i think the autocorrect is messing with me*the orthodox father i was talking to* But keep praying on it, study, etc.
There's no basis for most of the beliefs. Here are my problems with Catholicism:
- The Papacy. There's no basis for this secular/political kingdom in the Bible. In Matthew 16:18 it doesn't say: "I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and thou shall wear a fancy cap with expensive clothing, and the people shall call ye the vicar of Christ, thou shalt change the church doctrine for the political benefit, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it". The Pope is like a political figure and Christ died on a cross like a criminal.
- The Mass. Where can this be found in the Bible? The entire ritual is just man-made.
- The system of salvation, the Bible clearly says that you only need to believe in Christ to be saved.
- The gates of hell have prevailed, look at what's happening in the Vatican, the "Vicar of Christ" openly being an apostate by allowing divorced to receive the Eucharist or allowing intercommunion with Protestants. Vatican II has literally flipped on every teaching that the Church has held for centuries (Latin mass, reverence for the mass, teachings about salvation for non-believers, any form of traditionalism, etc).
- Personal issues with the clergy. I'm tired of reading and defending pedo or homo priests. I'm done with it. Every time the atheists or Protestants make fun of us for being a church that harbors degenerates, they're right. The Church still shuffles around mentally ill men and I have seen this with my own eyes. When I tried to apply for the seminary this year I met up with two stereotypically gay priests. Talking with them was the most disgusting thing I've ever done.
- Saints. Where in the Bible are these demigods? My room is filled with icons, statues and prayer cards to people that I pray to. Prayer time in my family consists us gathering around a picture of Mary and praying to her. My family sends me prayer cards to various saints (Padre Pio, Mother Teresa, John Paul II) and I'm supposed to pray to them. At mass we pray to Mary. Where is this in the Bible?>>644859
Pick up ANY Church father book and start reading because man, your ignorance is brilliant
Honestly from the sounds of it you should unironically BEGOME BABDISD, and ignore any tigger from any side that says you need to be on their side to be saved
I'm not some cultural Catholic, I've spent a lot of time reading about the topics I posted and shilling to defend them against Protestants and atheist. I can't lie to myself anymore, though. Why should we as Christians care about what some "church fathers" said centuries after His death? If Christ said that we are saved through belief in Him, then that should be good enough for everyone.
I'm thinking about it a lot. Their views align with what I consider to be what the Bible speaks about.
Observe how the protestant tries to reproduce by preying on the aimless and dazed, like he once was and still is
Where have I observed this behavior before?
Your creative writing exercise is over, homo, you can leave now
This
Judging by what you wrote, begoming IFB sounds best for you, OP.
Reported. Don't just call everyone stupid and gay like some 12 year old.
These are the only images I have saved. Why call me a homo? I hate homos.
How do talk to someone about becoming a Baptist? Do I just walk into a church and talk to the pastor before their service? I'd be interesting in attending once, but I'm very shy IRL.
Just walk in and say you want to be saved, they will take care of the rest. Once saved, always saved. Welcome to the club, fam.
If the majority or totality of the pictures you react with are of anime girls I have some extremely bad news for you
Notice how the protestant recoils, cries out, and doubles down, after being called out. Next, he'll pretend he's above this argument and he'll make sure to let everybody know.
said no church father ever
Thanks for the advice, man. It looks like there's a Baptist church not too far from me, but it's not IFB (like Pastor Anderson's). Are there major differences between different sects of Baptist churches or are most of them similar?
What news is that? I have SSA, but that doesn't make me a homo. You can't defend Catholic theology, so now you're just going to attack me?
What do the Church Fathers say, then? Add something to the thread rather than just attacking us instead of the arguments.
BO should take note: without flags, false flagging has evolved to new heights of desperation. It's quite interesting really.
What false-flagging are you talking about?
Do you think you have any argument at all? Do you think you're original and all these are the final nails on actual Christianity? I know you're lying when you say you've studied and understood patristics because nobody can do that and still have the kind of doubts you have, plain and simple.
Go read, understand, and then come back if you need to.
Yeah, all these arguments are cool and everything but consider this:
I'm not even a baptist user, just trying to help a tigger out by finding the right church for him so he continues to follow Christ
You can just walk in after service and talk to the pastor. Another useful thing to do is ask around if there's some volunteer work at the church. It's a good way of getting to know other members while giving to the community. For example, most churches I've seen has weekly or monthly soul-winning.
No
Can you address and debunk any of the points I made? At least give me any sources for counterarguments?
I don't know, Eastern Orthodoxy seems to have the same problems or even more problems than Roman Catholicism.
Such as?
Best to ignore spergs like that, you're wasting precious gains on typing out responses that won't be met with anything constructive.
N-not talking about you orthobro btw
Absolutely
en.wikipedia.org
- Divine Liturgy rituals that are not based on Scripture
- The system of salvation is the same as in Catholicism
- Clergy are as corrupt as in Catholicism
- They have an even bigger idolatry problem with saints and icons/statues, etc.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I'm seeing. Sorry if I'm wrong, though.
Where in scripture is liturgy defined? If it isn't defined anywhere, what's wrong with a liturgy that's based primarily on tradition rather than scripture?
Such as?
This is just wrong. Vid related.
I'll have to disagree here as well.
We're not idolators, user.
How can flags deter false-flagging?
Bible says gates of hell won't prevail over the church. Catholic church is increasingly from the top to the bottom becoming more liberal and falling to the gates of hell seemingly.
Baptist here. Just attend a Baptist service, go up to the pastor after the service and ask him.
Baptists strongly believe in Sola Scriptura and are one of the few denominations that actively de-emphasizes tradition. We are often fundamentalists because we believe in the fundamentals of Christianity - that which is covered in Scripture. Jesus is Christ, He is Lord, crucified for our sins, raised from the dead. We generally believe in interpreting Scripture according to the plainly understood nature of the book. Poetry should be read as poetry, and historical narrative should be read as historical narrative, etc. We also believe that the church should follow the example of the early church in Acts. Salvation is by faith, not works. Baptism is an outward sign of that salvation; by itself, it has no power to save, but being baptized is strongly encouraged after one has been saved as a public recognition of your new faith.
I should also warn you that Baptist churches tend to be very autonomous relative to other denominations; different Baptist churches can look pretty different, despite holding to the same fundamentals. This is because the pastor often has a very strong influence on how things are done. If you're considering becoming Baptist, consider attending a few different churches. Don't do this as a "church-shopping" thing where you're looking for a church that makes you feel comfortable, but look for a church where it looks like you will be challenged (e.g. the sermons are more detailed) and asked to prove your faith by helping in church-wide efforts (like community projects). Those tend to be the best.
Things were even worse a long, long time ago, but there hasn't been any lasting damage. You're blown about by the winds of feeling acting on the sail of your ignorance.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
How can we know these popes weren't victims of slander?
Interrogate the primary sources if you have any doubt.
I've spoken out irrationally against the Church. I regret making this thread, it was out of anger. I apologize to everyone involved.
As a Baptist, I thank you for not considering the Reformation lasting damage. ;)
It's ok, user. God loves you and so do I. I really hope you find what you're looking for.
Seeing as it's imploding as we speak, I'm not worried in the least. Protestantism will not survive this century.
Thanks for all the help. I think I will just remain Catholic. I have something I should probably talk about the priest with.
God bless.
May you find the help you need.
John Ch 13:1–17:26
Mark Ch 14:12-26
Matthew Ch 26:17-30
Luke Ch 22:14-20
Also elsewhere in the Acts and Epistles where references are made to the Mass, proper conduct and disciplines in Church etc.
Which is it? Do you believe in Christ? Because according to your own words He is a liar.
Yeah it's almost like they are sinners or something.
Man just stop it. You cannot tell me you have "studied" your faith and still parrot this prot shit. Take pictures related and start with the Bible.
I see you've made this post as I've been typing this, so I will post it all anyway. I will pray for you to stay on the straight path. It is tough and there are so many things which seek to draw us away from it, but never ever give up.
God be with you!
God be with you in your endeavors, user.
Thanks so much guys, God bless you both.
Thanks for typing this out, bro. I'm definitely going to be reviewing this tonight. I've been angry at God lately and this thread was just an attempt to lash out at the Church. I feel bad now. Hopefully I can try to go to confession tomorrow.
God bless you, by the way.
God go with you user.
What you feel does happen to us all from time to time, and it's especially difficult in times such as this when we feel scandalised by those we ought to look up to as our pastors.
Just remember to cast your cares upon Him, and that even if you feel a million miles away from Him, He is always right there beside you just waiting for you to turn back to Him!
Please also forgive me for my angry and dismissive tone, it was completely unreasonable and irresponsible.
Man I was the one who was warning you in the meta thread before they did this. The people doing false flagging want to be as ambiguous and vague as possible, forcing them to either commit to one flag or be explicitly flagless was a restriction on them.
Thanks for all the good advice, user!
Pardon the wall of text, and I hope not to cause offense to anyone. I'm not Catholic, I'm Anglican, and myself unsure of what to do about that fact. The grass is not greener here, just as I'm aware of your brown patches too, nevertheless, I just disagree with your thoughts about Mass, Salvation, and Saints, so here's the point by point breakdown;
I see where you're coming from, the Vatican the institution is one of the major reasons I'm not Catholic
Say what you want, but liturgy is important. As someone brought up Anglican, it is "quires and where they sing" which makes the deal for me. I even go to Catholic mass if the liturgy will be sung in Latin. One should rejoice, and that is what the liturgy is, a rejoicing down the ages.
Ugh, please refrain from saying that like that, I really mean it. We have theories of atonement, but nothing so mechanical as a system of salvation.
Well, that's why I don't think Matthew 16:18 refers to anything other than the rock of Peter's revelation. One must also have regard for the fact that earthly thrones are incompatible with Christ's Kingdom when interpreting that verse (another reason I'm not Catholic).
I've met many Catholics, mostly laity and some clergy. Many are quite spiritual, but there's a whole other bunch who I've have had sour relations with. I understand where you're coming from, because we all hear about pedo priests, and the Vatican's first instinct was to cover it up, and only lately has their tune changed (another instance of the gates of hell prevailing).
Are good. Perhaps some Catholics take it too far, and as an Anglican, I've never been big into Saints, but these are people who deserve some recognition for their deeds. We can quibble all day about how much is appropriate to venerate these heroes of faith, and just who should be included, but I think we all know the key ones. This is really too personal to make a general rule in my book.
...
The video you posted I agree with almost totally, everyday it looks more and more like I should begome. I'll sort it out eventually though, and there is no Orthodox church in my city.
The sin is ours, we don't evangelize in the West like we should. What a shame that there are so many people like you who miss out because of it. I'm sorry.
Anglicans are good chaps. There's actually an Anglican priest who frequents our Liturgy, he's part of the Orthodox-Anglican Dialogue. I've heard him say that he's really Orthodox in his heart and the only thing that keeps him from begoming is that his wife is a priest.
They don't, but I just noticed bait threads were much shorter and to the point with them. Now you see two or three of these text posts a week.
We didn't listen :/
Well, at the very least, the gates of hell have prevailed against those people. This is why the rock in Matthew 16:18 to me can be nothing other than the revelation.
There was a verse in the prophets about how the "snake doesn't leave traces on a rock nor a ship on the sea" referring also the the revelation, but I cannot find the reference. Very sad, but if you can find the reference, then right away you should know that Peter cannot be the rock, but the first among equals.
and checked also
Ah ha! Proverbs 30:19
“There are three things that are too amazing for me,
four that I do not understand:
the way of an eagle in the sky,
the way of a snake on a rock,
the way of a ship on the high seas,
and the way of a man with a young woman.
This is the way of an adulterous woman:
She eats and wipes her mouth
and says, ‘I’ve done nothing wrong.’
Under three things the earth trembles,
under four it cannot bear up:
You see, the snake upon the rock, is the opposer contending with revelation, the ship upon the sea is the church upon the world, and the man and the woman is Christ and the Church. The eagle is God of course, and also prophecy and the Gospel of Mark.
All very convoluted, I know, but I'm getting this from Fortunatianus of Aquilea, a 4th century commentator.
Because the rock is always the revelation everywhere else in the Bible, Peter cannot be the rock, because Peter is not the revelation. Peter has had a revelation, thus he is solid in faith like a rock, but that sets up an entirely different idea than papal supremacy, and a much more relateable one too.
Sorry for long series of posts