Jordan Peterson, "why orthodox christians like me"

It's not robbery, it's people consensually showing their support financially. Let's not bear false witness.

Tricking young men in a bad psychological situation into becoming a follower of your ideology to make money is robbing.

Don't be so hard on him, I have to go home at some point and winnie the pooh fix my family, who are labouring under the false assumption of nihilism. Frankly I need someone more articulate than me and who has some background in the secular understanding of authority as expertise in order to knock their preconceived notions for a loop.

Wish me luck, but it's going to be an uphill battle.

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Of course I wish you luck.

Thank you, sorry if my post was overly aggressive, I didn't mean it like that, I'm not a Peterson groupie either. Taking advantage of your men in a bad psychological way is robbing, but perhaps this is a case of the fine line between use and abuse. At least God loves the world enough that young men aren't discovering Joel Osteen.

Great, the jews are done with the papists.
Now it's our turn.

Bring 'em on.

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He is popular among vaguely normie Ortho Christian young men, mainly converts(not saying converts are bad i am one). But for anyone more theologically versed we can see him for what he is, a snake oil selling gnostic. I know at least one man who converted to Orthodox Christianity through him, so thank God this man essentially misunderstood what Peterson was saying and became a real Christian instead.

Some Orthodox culture makes me ask the following;

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Not really, he's a Jungian materialist, we all see it clear as day. He has no faith, but for those who couldn't into Christianity because of their autistic need for everything to be scientifically accurate, it's faith we wanted to discover, so it makes sense to use his knowledge and then get past him.

What Peterson is saying here is also a tad wrong, it's only right insofar as the western focus is seemingly on creed, and the eastern focus is on theosis, or to use the Latin, imitatio dei.

But it's hardly a dichotomy that really exists

Such as?

I'm just making fun of the Orthodox priest shooting a gun. Clergy and monks fighting is something you don't see in the west since the times of the middle ages, when monks and priests would arm themselves and accompany armies to defend their monasteries.

It makes perfect sense though, because being closer to Islam, and all.

That went over your head Mr Peterson. Easterns are so hardcore about professions of faith in words that they schism from Rome claiming the reason that Rome changed the words of the profession. They are more focussed on the profession of faith in words than anyone else.

(You)

lol, this is the level of delusion of papists

This. Anybody coming to true Christianity through Peterson's ramblings has fundamentally misunderstood his essentially all of his presuppositions, or rejected them by converting to Christianity. He's a dangerous gnostic who spends considerable time sterilizing the scriptures of truth.

lol at this papist rage

Nah mate, you have just fallen from the faith.

I'm in the latter camp, his presuppositions in the main are those of materialism. Sterilizing is the right word, he understands suffering, sacrifice and death and that's about it.

In short, he's not a Gnostic like the ancient heresy, he's a half-Christian in my book, since he can fit the earthly bits together (i.e. sin, suffering, sacrifice and death) but he doesn't deal with any of the heavenly and positive parts. That had some advantages to me, because I saw the heaven bit as an impossibly remote chance, and it was "nice" but meaningless because I didn't understand how I could get there (it was either too easy or dumb luck alla Pascale's wager).

I'd like to hear some real theological arguments against his mistakes though, I feel ill equipped to understand how he's wrong. (I'm still only a year into a return to faith)

BEGOME

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So you should stop mouth breathing because m*slims do that too.

And at least someone will stand up to the Turks

Last one's a great meme, saved

You are very based, begome has crept into my mind of late, I just want to wait a bit to see if I retain my faith with a bit more steadiness, because I'm still new.

The main problem with Peterson and people like him is that he only looks at religion as some psychological tool to condition your earthly mind to be more comfortable with life, death and suffering. In his own words he acts as if there is a God. More precisely he acts as if there some hidden intelligence in the world that he will uncover eventually with his own intellect. With his followers treating him as some saviour and him digging down on his own Jungian beliefs he will not take a leap of faith, as in his mind there is no need for it.

That's also why he loves Jung and his psychobabble so much. It gives the illusion of being scientific when its just abstract theories about the brain.

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Thou shalt not covet. Your post reeks of envy. People appreciate his work, so they donate to him. There are no victims there.

yup, they did it many times already

Spoken like a true Zig Forums regular. The amount of money he receives is completely irrelevant. It's not scamming or robbing when everything associated with him is completely free and available online aside from his "infamous" quiz that you don't even need if you've listened to more than a dozen hours of the guy (which is a small amount compared to what's available.) Even his newest book which is a self help book, he goes into detail about each chapter for free online in other lectures. There's no reason to pay Peterson a single dime unless you want to leave a tip, which is what that patreon account is

When someone attacks your idol:

When you want to defend Peterstein:

Yeah, that was my assessment too. It's all a lovely theory, and it always feels nice to be enriched with new knowledge and a new perspective, but it is not faith, you have to make that leap by yourself.

Papist education
Papist education
Charlemagne and the "HRE" schism from Rome which remained Orthodox until the end. The reasons were many but mostly political.

I feel sorry for Easterns who have to put up with these undercover prots tarnishing their name

And i don't have a problem with westerners admiring and converting to Orthodoxy. If anything, it was about time.

omg Fr. Spyridon commented on it

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yep, anyone with sense understands Peterson made a good and fair point.
Sad some people are so quick to attack him out of spite.

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Who is worse? Peterson fanboys or animequeers?

It's a close call

people who ask stupid questions.

Oh yeah I see why they like you Jo.

Ad hominem, ad hominem

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You are coveting and bearing false witness. It is reckless to call it theft when someone receives freely given donations from people who like his message. No one has a gun to their head. So that is a lie. False witness. Like him or dislike him, there are hundreds of hours of lectures and interviews of him available for free. No one has to pay a cent for his message unless they want to. And there is no reason to mention how much he makes on Patreon other than envy.

Is he even remotely correct? It seems like he is pulling those weltanschaung differences out of thin air.

Evidence? Tammy Roberts does not sound like a Jewish name. Not that her ethnicity should matter.
Not because he likes communism. For the opposite reason.
Like what? He condemns casual sex.
At worst he is an agnostic.

Sounds like you don't know a lot about Peterson's college years. Those murals are of his old heroes.

I'm starting to realize the people who know the least about Peterson are his most ardent fanboys. Real YouTube scholars, these ones.

Maybe because people care about what he has to say, and don't idolize him like the strawmen you like to project onto his supporters. Peterson never called himself righteous

I'm just pointing our your hipocrisy. When it suits you, your are quick to cry "FALSE WITNESS, FALSE WITHNESS, IT IS CLEAR AS WATER BUT GOD HIMSELF HAS NOT DESCENDED TO CONFIR IT SO FALSE WITNESS. When someone attacks your actual god, Peterstein, you have no problem making a million accusations of ENVY ENVY, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

You are a pathetic celebrity worshiping hipocrite that can't stand people telling the truth about Peterstein, who is a spineless coward that gets thousands of monthly dollars through idiots like you and popularity. We mention how much money he gets in patreon because that is the way he milks idiots like you

Another hipocrisy: "if you say anything against me, it is false witness. But I am free to say that you are envious and projecting because I magically know so. The magical divination ball I bought form the Peterstein store tells me so"

The majority of Peterson's fans haven't read his books, or any of his writing. They watch YouTube videos of "Jordan Peterson BTFO leftists!!! CLICK THIS".

Omg guys, gulag archipelaego!

How do you know this? You couldn't possibly know if this were true. In fact, where does anyone get thier idea of what a Peterson supporter looks like. Is it reddit? Because reddit is full of garbage no matter the subject. What you described sounds like the mentality of an r/t_d poster

Not an argument. You're being delusional.

Try to follow the thread of conversation. I was responding the the false notion that he has commie propaganda all over his house as some sort of ironic artful critique. Where's the swastikas, then? From his book Maps of Meaning:

I abandoned the traditions that supported me, at about the same time I left childhood. This meant that I had no broader socially constructed “philosophy” at hand to aid my understanding as I became aware of the existential problems that accompany maturity. The final consequences ofthat lack took years to become fully manifest. In the meantime, however, my nascent concern with questions of moral justice found immediate resolution. I started working as a volunteer for a mildly socialist political party, and adopted the party line.

Economic injustice was at the root of all evil, as far as I was concerned. Such injustice could be rectified, as a consequence of the rearrangement of social organizations. I could play a part in that admirable revolution, carrying out my ideological beliefs….

I had attended several left-wing party congresses, as a student politician and active party worker. I hoped to emulate the socialist leaders. The left had a long and honorable history in Canada, and attracted some truly competent and caring people. However, I could not generate much respect for the numerous low-level party activists I encountered at these meetings. They seemed to live to complain. They had no career, frequently, and no family, no completed education—nothing but ideology. They were peevish, irritable, and little, in every sense of the word. I was faced, in consequence, with the mirror image of the problem I encountered on the college board: I did not admire many of the individuals who believed the same things I did. This additional complication furthered my existential confusion.

My college roommate, an insightful cynic, expressed skepticism regarding my ideological beliefs. He told me that the world could not be completely encapsulated within the boundaries of socialist philosophy. I had more or less come to this conclusion on my own, but had not admitted so much in words. Soon afterward, however, I read George Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier. This book finally undermined me—not only my socialist ideology, but my faith in ideological stances themselves. In the famous essay concluding that book (written for—and much to the dismay of—the British Left Book Club) Orwell described the great flaw of socialism, and the reason for its frequent failure to attract and maintain democratic power (at least in Britain). Orwell said, essentially, that socialists did not really like the poor. They merely hated the rich. His idea struck home instantly. Socialist ideology served to mask resentment and hatred, bred by failure. Many of the party activists I had encountered were using the ideals of social justice to rationalize their pursuit of personal revenge.

Whose fault was it that I was poor or uneducated and unadmired? Obviously, the fault of the rich, well-schooled and respected. How convenient, then, that the demands of revenge and abstract justice dovetailed! It was only right to obtain recompense from those more fortunate than me.

Of course, my socialist colleagues and I weren't out to hurt anyone. Quite the reverse. We were out to improve things—but we were going to start with other people. I came to see the temptation in this logic, the obvious flaw, the danger—but could also see that it did not exclusively characterize socialism. Anyone who was out to change the world by changing others was to be regarded with suspicion. The temptations of such a position were too great to be resisted.

It was not socialist ideology that posed the problem, then, but ideology as such.

IS JORDAN PETERSON A CHRISTIAN?

Although I had grown up in a Christian environment—and had a successful and happy childhood, in at least partial consequence—I was more than willing to throw aside the structure that had fostered me. No one really opposed my rebellious efforts, either, in church or at home—in part because those who were deeply religious (or who might have wanted to be) had no intellectually acceptable counter-arguments at their disposal. After all, many of the basic tenets of Christian belief were incomprehensible, if not clearly absurd. The virgin birth was an impossibility; likewise, the notion that someone could rise from the dead.
- Maps of Meaning

Lott: Do you believe that Jesus rose again from the dead?"

Peterson: I cannot answer that question. And the reason is because… okay… let me think about that for a minute… see if I can come up with a reasonable answer for that. Well, the first answer would be: It depends on what you mean by Jesus…. I don't understand the structure of being well enough to make my way through the complexities of the resurrection story, I would say it's the most mysterious element of the biblical stories to me, and perhaps I'm not alone in that, it's the central drama in the Christian corpus let's say. But I don't believe that it's reasonable to boil it down to something like "do you believe that or do you not believe it", you know, it's not… I don't know what the limits… I don't know the limits of human possibility.
- Am I Christian? Interview with Tim Lott.

Talk about weaving a web of confusion. This guy is a pied piper leading his followers into a dizzying circle of existential relativism.

This is a good excerpt and I don't see why people have a problem with addressing the issues of ideology. Ideology is used as a substitute for religion that leads to dangers thoughts and worldview. Peterson makes it clear (if not in that text, then his lecture as a whole) that TRUTH (I.e. God) is the only way to construct the world in a positive and meaningful way. His personal beliefs whether he's choosing to hide it, or his faith is truly misguided , does not make the above statement wrong nor does it push people away from the Lord.

Again, you're missing the point. His background is as a socialist, which explains why he is so enamored of those relics. Try to follow the thread of conversation; I'm not critiquing Peterson in that quote. My critique is the subsequent post, where he can't even acknowledge that Jesus is a man, much less that he was resurrected and is the Son of God.

who let leftypol in?

He is obviously totally against communism now, and maintains his collection of Soviet art for anti-authoritarian reasons. Focusing on how he was a socialist in his youth is like focusing on Paul murdering Christians.

Of course he is because then otherwise he'd have to stop claiming he's "Western Christian" which he isn't even in the slightest regard.

Hmm, I don't know, I've been listening to an Orthodox priest a Fr. Saraphim Cordoza who sometimes appears on this boomer Christian radio station called Dove radio. And based on his ideas surrounding faith I would have to say there's a little truth to what Peterson is on about. However it's a massive oversimplification.

For instance, Peterson's idea of suffering is too watered down, like maybe around 10% of what Fr. Seraphim was talking about.

Then of course there's the fact that no real dichotomy exists, but Peterson does atone for this by recognizing that Westerns give it more implicit emphasis.

Where's his nazi propaganda?

Did Paul maintain murals immortalizing his murders of Christians? It's more like if an ex-sodomite kept his gay porn stash. Makes you wonder.

If he did keep Nazi propaganda the media would claim it was evidence he is a crypto-fascist, whereas very few people would be foolish enough to call him a communist given his generally conservative values.

There's no reason to refer to Peterson as a gnostic. Chief among these non-reasons is that he's not even religious enough to be guilty of the gnostic heresy as such. He's just another esoteric goomba.

I give up. Jordanites go to any length to defend their daddy figure.

that's not how a man of God speaks

...

But Peterson is liberal.

What did 15 yo """catholic""" user mean by this?

...

That's because 95% of Orthodox are old Russian ladies.

That's what I was afraid too when I went to orthodox mass for the first time.

Luckily it's not true.

blean your broom, cucko

...

Depends how you define the terms, but he talks about how old ways of doing things should not be jettisoned lightly, how people should get their own personal life in order before trying to save the world (which would rule out most liberal activism), how hierarchies are natural and impossible to get rid of, how trying to bring about equity is undesirable and results in tyranny, how casual sex and abortion are bad and enforced monogamy is good, etc. He criticizes both the radical left and right but focuses way more against the left.

I have that with nearly every denomination

Easy there pharisee

Orthodox are interested in Peterson mostly because he's good friends with Jonathan Pageau.

Honestly, though, God is still using him. Even though he seems to have a hard time accepting God as he actually is, I've met a weird amount of people in churches recently who have people like him to thank for their genuine conversions. And these people are real, believing Christians.

It's deeper than that. He's described people as literally needing meaning. Not mere comfort.

I don't think he's that arrogant for it to be a self-centered approach. He heaps plenty of praise on others for it, though I suppose you could make the argument that the fact that he's praising people reveals that he thinks his praise is worth something, which could be characterized as arrogance.

youre reasoning is pretty stupid, theres nothing wrong with making money. however i agree he is a hack because he seems like one of those people who are only christian because "society depends on it" (notice hes always referencing nietschze) and not because he actually has faith.

I don't like Peterson. I've actually listened to some of his academic lectures relating to Jung but they weren't particularly useful. I think that as an internet celebrity he pertains to the lowest common denominator which in his case, are millennial conservatives and self professed millennial Christians who both have very few role models to ground themselves to and in turn are extremely easy to exploit. Peterson obviously isn't a Christians and doesn't know much about Christianity, or Orthodoxy, but he does paint Christianity in a positive light which is a favorable position by his fans at least.

You stumble up to the City of God, like Sisyphus.

wtf i hate orthodox christians now imagine liking this shill who gets white people to be individuals while at the same time supporting zionism

...

This made me and my gf laugh A LOT, it came out of nothing too and I'm a big fan of JP (not a mindless one though)

congrats on the sex

I'm curious, did you listen to one of his actual 2 hour lectures or just those 5 minute youtube clips of him in a classroom where random lectures are cropped to cover a small topic?

youtube.com/watch?v=n3bd2-ivMfI

I lol'd

It amazes me at the number of people (mostly non-Christians themselves) who think Jordan Peterson is a Christian. And I'm not just talking about leftists and journalists who hate Peterson and don't care about accurately representing him. I just read a right wing, nationalist wing type refer to him as a "devout Christian". He may be on his way, we can definitely hope that he will convert. But as far as I know he's an agnostic at this point. I guess in this day and age saying a bunch of positive things about Christianity, even if you're a non-believer, will make other non-believers think you're a Christian.

I'm orthodox and I hate him with the passion.