Brownells making a AR-180 Style Upper

Yes I mean like on an FNC, don't break my balls

Fuck me, why does everything have to be so damn expensive these days?

If you're complaining about the price on this, I've got bad news for you about the other AR-180 clones out there.

For a good quality clone of a hard-to-find rifle that's pretty good.

I bought a sterling second hand, and once I cleaned out the dog fur (the owner was a lonely mountain fudd), the thing runs like a dream. I would go so far as to say I'd likely take my beat up AR180 over any NIB AR15 in a shtf situation.
Not gonna lie, I'm kinda booty blasted that no one has made a faithful clone of them.
I understand financially why they stopped, as the whole point of the rifle was to be a cheap and reliable export because the manufactioring process for AR15's wasn't as cheap and quick at the time, but with specialty collectors out there like me, I figure someone out there would have tried. Some retarded faggot tried reviving them with the "B" model that took away two of the greatest features about them in the first place (the folding stock and addition of an AR15 buffer in it's place). Heck, I dream of someone making an AR180 with a milled reciever instead of a stamped one; I'd buy that in a heartbeat. But,as other anons pointed out, now that AR15s are cheap, no one out there is going to want to invest in a nieche product like this. The only angle I can hope for is someone cashing in on the IRA history angle.

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Also this dude designing an AR180 lower.
>ar180s.com

$800 isn't bad for that

Git gud

Oops. Sorry got the wrong photo. Here

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Leafs are building the B model with a milled receiver and ambi controls.

If it is put on a SCR lower, is it a restricted firearm in Canada?

800 for a complete upper is under 1000 dollars after a lower and sights. That's pretty reasonable for a new thing. Remember Brownells has 10% codes every few months, so it's closer to 720 for the upper. That's assuming it never goes down in price as the tooling is paid for, which it will.

Disgraceful

Guess i'll wait for it to actually come out and for the price to drop before buying it.
Maybe by then the guy from would be done with his lower and I can just put together an AR18 to have for a 16 inch rifle. Then I just need a 20 inch barrel for my AR and that should cover most things.
What do you do with uppers you don't really use anymore? Sell them or keep them around?

A very much needed modernization and upgrade to be honest.

Hopefully brownells makes a milled "retro" 180.
So I can get a talented gunsmith to make it into a type 89 clone

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I'd rather buy a revolver for those shekles. Besides what makes this upper so good? Aren't there other piston uppers that don't require a receiver extension? I mean it's just that but with a folding joint adapter and a side charging upper receiver.
I understand why they made it the way they did but a person who wants a legit 180/18 clone is going to cream their pants and is willing to spend 1k or more for an actual STAMPED STEEL rifle for fucks sake people who want muh nam era shit were willing to dump a down payment for a (used) car worth of shekles just for triangular handguards from colt and troy

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"Other piston uppers" just have a piston slamming into a solid gas key, it's a retarded design.

Fresh tooling and R&D makes the cost that high, which isn't too bad considering what you're getting for 800. A piston upper with a free floated barrel in the vein of the AR180, it's not at all bad. Just wait a year or two, you'll be able to get it for 600.

Hopefully by then, that lower would be ready and decently priced too.

I just want an underfolder stock for the AR by then. That'd be a nice little package.

Get nigger rigging. Buy an AK underfolder and figure out how to attach it.

There is a reason H&K, FN, and numerous others have damn near the same exact gas system. It's also the first piston AR upper that doesn't do it wrong as all fuck.

they also just beat me to making a 25rnd AR15 magazine. fuckn neato

Hot

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Any good folding stocks and adaptors? Unless the guy making the 18 lower offers a way to have a decent folding stock adaptor and stock similar to the original 18.
Or would it be better to go with a fixed stock for it?

The MCX lower is good, but I don't know how cheaply they come. It'd hardly be authentic, though.

This.
The ar15 upper wasn't designed to withstand the carrier group torquing from a piston slamming into it.
Doing so will cause premature wear on the upper and eventually, unreliable feeding and bolt locking.
It may take thousands of rounds, but it will happen.

The long stroke piston AR15 uppers aren't as bad, the bolt carrier tilt problem is only a significant problem on short stroke designs.

The Ar180 sucks balls, I know it you know it. If you have have one you should get rid of it. I'll even take it off your hands for free and prove to you how bad it is.

The 1:12 twist rate does.

Not only this, but the actual force of the piston smashing into the tiny gas key meme usually causes them to peen and deform.

And unsurprisingly, this was designed by PWS, the same company that is responsible for the main line of long-stroke gas piston AR-15s on the US market, they know what they're doing. If you want a piston AR, either make it long stroke to mitigate tilt and prevent the gas key peen meme, or not make it an AR-15 at all, trying to cram the meat of a BCG required for a piston gun in the reviver of one designed for DI will never work, there's not enough space and the geometries are all wrong.

Stop being a 62gr nigger with less accurate, non-homogeneous, more expensive, heavier bullets that have shit terminal ballistics and effective range.
Use 55gr in a 20" 1:12" barrel like God intended.

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Tbh this only applies to FMJ bullets, soft points are a different story. Barrel sure wouldn't hurteven if going 18" is not a great loss, but higher SD bullets would retain energy better, have slightly better penetration, be as accurate and almost as flat shooting, instead extending effective range and improving terminal ballistics.

I prefer my 75gr vaporizes the interior of deer out of a 20" barrel thank you very much.

Fuck off.

Don't talk shit about 62gr

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You certainly showed how brilliant you are. I very much like my 3/4" group at 250 yards. Besides that if and when the day comes I'm not using gimped ass geneva convention ammo for as long as I can.

How is that shit anyway?

My friend's Mossberg MVP has issues with light primer strikes, my Mini 15 and ARs have zero issue. I get better accuracy with the 62gr Frontier ammo than I do M855.

*edit, Mini 14, typo…

Been seeing reports of their 55gr loads having blown primers nad one case claims to have had a catastrophic failure of a round resulting in a total loss of their rifle. (pics related)

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Holy shit, that must be some serious pressure to tear the bolt carrier apart with the bolt still in the extension. However it appears that gun has quite a short barrel given that what appears to be the gas block is only ~6" from the barrel nut, probably a combination of short barrel with hot load resulting in the pressure during unlock being enough to not allow the bolt to extract the case and instead blow apart the bolt carrier. Because one thing that many people don't get about the AR15 is that it actually is a piston design, its just that the piston is the bolt itself and that seal that it makes with the bolt carrier can hold a significant amount of pressure which is why there are vent holes on the carrier but they can only do so much.

NZ bro is 110% right. Which brings up a point, never go below a 11.5" upper without a heavy buffer (H2+) and an adjustable gas block. Even low tier PSA ARs with 11.5" barrels run fine, but the 10.5" ones have issues.

Now what they really need to do is come out with a suite of gas block adapters in order to facilitate barrel swaps for caliber conversions and what not. A 300blk version would give the ammo a bit more punch and would run that much quieter surpressed. I hope to save my burgerbux for such an upper in the future!

...

I don't even think comes in heavy for caliber loadings to be surpressed.

Let's be reasonable, its a do-it-all caliber with parts commonality with the venerated and bountiful AR platform. All I'm saying is that this system would be even more accessible if they provided gas plugs for different barrel widths as to allow for other barrels instead of the proprietary one used for only one barrel. The only short barreled AR-180 based pistol is the SIG, and they want almost triple for what brownells can accomplish by making barrel swaps easier.

Just pull x54R bullets and you get a well-made 200gr solid projectile, you absolute mongoloid. You can buy this shit for under $0.50/round or handload it for even cheaper. People have been making subsonic x39 for ages this way. You know your meme cartridge is garbage when the defense of it relies entirely on intellectual dishonesty and imagining that a superior, more available, non-proprietary option didn't already exist on the market.

Blackout isn't proprietary anymore, is it? They went the whole SAAMI route.

There are 20x more availability for ss 300blk than 7.62x39 ss on any website of your choosing. Not to mention that AK barrel/piston design makes them near impossible to properly surpress and the retarded thread pitch makes such surpressors de facto proprietary. To be fair…

I forgot to delete this once I did some rudimentary research for ss comblok ammo. 5 vendors for it and every one of them was from some reloading/jerryrigging bubba type. Compared to multiple companies offering new, professionally manufacture ss 300blk. I hope someone at brownells has a brain, because 300blk is hamstrung by DI or ultra expensive meme designs unless they have 16+ in barrels and this is a great way to increase adoption.

I reload it at about $0.35NZD (both 110gr supers and 235gr subs) per round and get the brass from a guy who converts once fired 5.56 brass to .300BLK

Why would I go to that effort when I can buy any one of the numerous heavy .308 sized bullets available for less than the price of a x54r?

Correct, the .300 Whisper was somewhat proprietary but no one uses that anymore since .300BLK became the popular cartridge.

[Citation Needed]

Despite my best efforts to research that, I can't find anything to corroborate it. Even if its just conjecture, a system forcing more gas to be behind the projectile before it leaves the barrel will exert more force than a system that requires some of that same gas to be bled in order to operate the action. But there's plenty of media that shows that pistons can be more accurate at least. I just wonder why that isn't more of a thing.

See, that's the problem with firearms designed around stamped components right there. Stamping is an excellent process for high volume production as it allows you to make lightweight receivers and other components for almost no material or machine time cost. The problem with stamping is that practically all the costs of production are tied up in the initial, enormous capital expenses of presses, tooling, and the fixturing needed to accurately rivet/weld in the trunnions in a repeatable/durable fashion. If you're planning to make 50,000 rifles for a government contract you're all good as the per-unit cost will still be lower than a milled/machined part as those capital expenses get spread over a large number of units that only contain pennies worth of material. However, when you're making a niche collector's item, you're forced to spread tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars over a relative handful of units. This is the reason why most American made AKs suck shit, the only way to keep the per-unit cost down is to cut enormous corners in the areas of tooling/fixturing (shit fixtures are why nearly all American AKs have shit riveting or excess wear due to misaligned trunnions). PTR is the only company I know of doing niche stamped firearms correctly but they also inhereted all the original CETME tooling, fixturing, and also blueprints for all of it.

Wishing for a milled version of a stamped receiver may seem like the next best thing but milling a receiver compatible with an originally stamped design means weight and cost go *way* up. A milled AK weighs roughly 2lbs more than a stamped AKM and the machine time needed to mill out such a complex part from such a large block of steel increases the per-unit cost tremendously. ARs get away with using a fully machined receiver because the market demand is so high that high quality castings are able yo be mass produced, allowing half the work to be eliminated by casting the receiver in its rough outline. That kind of demand doesn't exist for any other rifle desogn so you'll be stuck starting with basic bar stock and a lengthy and expensive machining process that increases the overall cost far beyond what most people are willing to pay.

While I've only shot around 100 something rounds of that hornady shit, I didn't have any problems of the like.

AR receivers are forged, not cast. Otherwise you're correct, the actual machining done on AR receivers is comparatively small, it's just drilling a fwe holes.

Damn that ain't good.

M855 and M193 aren't exactly accurate rounds compared to civilian shit.

You don't seem to understand the mechanics of gas systems in gas operated semi auto firearms. There are numerous factors which go into the performance of such a system, such as bore size, bullet velocity at each point in the barrel, powder charge, dwell time, gas port size, pressure at gas port, if the gun as a suppressor (makes a big difference to some guns), etc. Some guns has gas systems which take a large volume of gas off close to the muzzle (M1, Colt Dizzy, etc) while most take smaller amounts off a little over half way down the barrel. Its not the amount of gas which is taken off but the amount of energy that it carries since you are using it to do work (cycle the action). In this respect there are few differences between DI vs SS Piston vs LS Piston since all systems are performing the same basic job, take some of the gas in the barrel and convert it into work to overcome the mainspring.

Also going from a bolt gun (no gas system) in .300blk to an AR15 ("the worst gas system" according to your implications) in .300blk with equal barrel length only produces a small decrease in velocity. There are numerous reasons which contribute to this but the biggest two are:

I'm not the most well versed, but please notice that my original request is to make an AR 180 pistol that doesn't suffer from the setback of a gas system that syphons the gas away from the bullet. The sig rattler is the only such offering, but its billed as being compact, suppress-able and working, not being accurate and allowing full powder burn. A 10-12inch 300blk pistol would be awesome if it can be done at half the price of the competition, even if it isn't the most elegant solution.

You realise a 10mm Auto in the same barrel length would have superior performance and be cheaper to feed, right?

I know you mean well, but I'm just looking for versatility in loads and game using off the shelf components, not specialized range toys.

How do you fall for such low-effort marketing over a round that has no advantages whatsoever over any other, and whose only benefit is fitting into STANAG 5.56 magazines?

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.300 has the advantage of having a wider, better bullet selection where as with x39 you don't have that courtesy due to the .311 bore.

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My nigga!

They could have just as easily made a wide selection of x39, that's not an argument. The entire reason .300 even exists is to convert an AR into something that fires a x39 "like" cartridge, but with one fewer part to swap out to make the conversion.

That's it.

One fewer part for a conversion, there's no other reason for .300blk to exist.

If you try to argue with someone who clearly has buyer's remorse or doesn't understand the subject due to being a LARPer, you will always lose. In their mind, no argument is an argument because they believe it.

And the fact that 7.62x39 STANAG mags are kind of universally horrible.

I'm pretty sure other user's point was that there was already a wide selection of .308 bullets, thanks to interchangeability with bullets originally made for 7.62x51. Also, regular ARs can't feed 7.62x39 for shit, so if you don't want to go with a lower that takes AK mags you have to goo .300 BLACKED out.

Its not for his benefit, I'm not going to let his statements stand unchallenged.

None of those are design advantages, they're situational advantages. By that logic .22lr is superior because there is, situationally, a fucktonne of this type of ammunition produced.

I'm not saying they are design advantages. I don't think the other guy did either, he just said "advantage" without a qualifier. No one is contradicting your claim that, in a vacuum, 7.62x39 has better design characteristics than .300 memeout. But the average consumer choosing between those two platforms is not operating in a vacuum, he's operating in the American market with all of the limitations and caveats that entails. In that scenario, what you call "situational advantages" absolutely do matter, because they are reflective of what the average consumer is actually capable of achieving. To use another example: 5.7x28's primary disadvantages in the civilian market are the lack of AP ammo, the lack of select-fire guns to shoot it, and the expense, all of which are "situational advantages" and not "design advantages." Are you going to tell people that they should go with the 5.7 meme over the far more practical .22 WMR just because the 5.7 has a design advantage?

Do you actually live in this country? Have you ever seen an AK?

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Buddy, don't strawman. The main advantage of 300blk is being able to use subs in an AR platform without turning it into a single shot. Secondary is that the round hits harder than 5.56 at distance, requiring only a barrel swap to do so. This is because most engagements, even in places like afghanistan, are within 300m, with DMs taking over since the M4s shorter barrels kill the power and speed of 5.56. Why buy a rifle and ammo for a weapon that's harder to surpress overall when you can just get a new upper with parts interchangability and projectile choice. Choice is the strength of blackout, everyone acknowledges that x39 has better supersonic ballistics. Hell, who's to say that Brownells shouldn't also make a x39 barrel for the same system, allowing the use of comblok magwell lowers? Still would make it harder to surpress, faggot

Its main advantage is an arbitrary claim based on nothing that doesn't even reflect reality? Funny. You know guys use suppressors on ARs of all length without malfunction, right, and the only issue with it is backpressure and a difference in dwell time which are entirely due to the gas piston being located inside the bolt carrier, something that changing cartridges would have no effect on at all?

Based on what, retard? There is nothing magic about the .300 BLK case design or factory loads. There is also nothing preventing anyone from making subsonic loads of 7.62x39, as several guys in this thread have already pointed out. Would you also claim that .308 Winchester is 'easier to suppress' than 7.62x51 just because the standard military load, M80 Ball, doesn't use a superheavy bullet? You know Black Hills developed 90gr and 100gr 5.56 projectiles for subsonic loads, right? It's been said before but I really feel like I have to hammer it since you're so dense - it is really fucking obvious that ignorance is the only reason anyone falls for the .300 Memeout.

Notice I said subsonics (subs). 5.56 subs turn an M4 into a straight pull .22lr, 300blk allows the use of the same bolt while allowing enough pressure to cycle the action. Lets not act as though SOCOM themselves didn't test all these weirdo short action AR calibers (6.5grendel, 6.8spc, .458socom, .50beowulf, etc) and moved away from them since they required too many proprietary parts to maintain and use. As a civilian, 300blk is the best compromise between ballistics and expense to allow an AR to fire a variety of loads, even if the military themselves moved away from it eventually.

Bullet diameter. Most .30 surpressors are for .308" diameter projectiles and 5/8x24 threads. Most x39 surpressors are tailor made for .311" projectiles and that weird 14x1 left hand thread. Not to mention that x39 AKs weren't originally designed to be surpressed, with performance and durability suffers due to the extra stress on the piston and surpressor. This is said even of AK aficionados.

I'll probably get one when it comes to Canada.

5.56 is cool but fuck that shit while innawoods here.

You have access to the wk-180c, look it up, leaf.

I hate the pop tart holder it has.

Canadian companies are also pumping out shit black rifles and getting away with it as well.

Piece of ducktape fixes that problem of ambi controls or learn the funs and joys of rubber molding.

Come on now, unless you plan on firing whilst in a mud puddle, its not a big deal. and it would be much easier to clear than say an AK.

We will see. I don't see any new guns in my immediate future so I have time to think about it.

I will add that PWS also make buffer tubes that have an extended "sleeve" at the bottom to help further minimize carrier tilt or at least the effects of it.

It basically guarantees that the carrier will not strike the buffer tube so rough.

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Those buffer tubes also don't bend due to the reinforcements. If you do bayonet drill on an AR, it's more than likely that you're going to bend the buffer tube, which stops it from cycling.

I'm fairly certain that's fuddlore. I want to say the myth started with a scene in Heartbreak Ridge where Clint Eastwood tomahawks a M16 prop across a tree and breaks it in half at the stock extension, but I can't verify it one way or the other.

Reminder that Brownells is cucked and that this is vaporware waiting to happen.

How?

Why?

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They're cucked because every gun company in [CURRENT YEAR] is cucked.
Also, everything they make is vaporware. There's no proof than anyone (aside from their paid shills of course) owns it.

just say you don't like it because those fags from inrangetv jerk it off, no need to lie to us

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Do you even know what cucked means?

You're responding to Spergkike.

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