I've been looking into Islam more and more recently

I've been looking into Islam more and more recently
So why shouldn't I hedge my bets with Islam? The only Christians I see who outright claim Muslims go to Hell and you have to convert to be saved are the Orthodox (along with various Prot denoms, but I'm not considering those), so should I just look into those two faiths to determine what to believe?

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By "those two faiths," I mean Islam and Orthodox Christianity

galatians 1:6-12
Let mohhamed, proclaiming the gospel of islam, be accursed. For the quora would make God a liar if it were true titus 1:2, which it is not true.

because many people believe it doesn't mean its true or certain
who?
No it doesn't

The Catholic Church says Muslims, like anyone else, can go to heaven if they were not taught the Scriptures correctly and lived virtuous lives. Even then Purgatory is a thing. That being said, if one were to outright reject Jesus' teachings and hate His Holy Church, then all bets are off.

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Of course not, but that wasn't the point I was making. That's not meant to sound rude, I was trying to be brief in the OP rather than clear, and I do think my point didn't come across very well. Basically, if there are two groups, and Group A says "you have to join our group" and Group B says "you can join either group, it doesn't matter" I'm going to join Group A. If a bunch of people start proclaiming Universalism, and the other group claims a narrow path to salvation, shouldn't I just take the narrow path? However, I do recognize that there are more than two groups in this scenario
Mystic in the 1800s, he wrote a book called "Heaven and Hell." His work was influential, and was praised by Mark Twain and William Blake. Joseph Smith copied some of it when he created Mormonism. In Heaven and Hell, Swedenborg claims to be given a vision of Heaven where he sees Muslims, Pagans, and Jews alongside Christians.
"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

I've been reading the Quran aswell, I don't see their teachings on the Gospel to be different than ours. They still tell people to Love God and Love thy neighbors.

How about group c, which says don't believe us or any one else. Believe and obey God instead like said in galatians 1:10

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

The quoran forbids pork, but acts 10:10-16
And 1 timothy 4:3-5

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When you follow Universalism, you play with fire. Just my two cents.
"I am a jealous God."
Most gods seem to hold similar feelings.

Well Swedenborg claimed a lot of things.
He literally claimed to have debates with John Calvin, Failed to get him out of his [Calvinism] btw, and with Luther. Literally read This book related, Swedenborg was literally dabbling in Occult practices, and just unironically making up his own heaven, and hell, and was fooled by fallen spirits Ie, Demons. As for Islam, it sprung up far after Christianity, and Doctrine wise, it literally looks like they just ripped their stuff off the Christians. Personally i'd recommend orthodoxy, continue to study, continue to prayer, if you're looking for the truth, but im telling you dude in Islam, it's a master slave relationship when it comes to god. Just from my basic research. Get book related btw for an orthodox perspective on death. On death you usually find out a lot when comes, to different faiths outlooks on death. One of the things, personally for me that im still trying to come to terms with toll houses, cause i grew up in the late 90s/early 2000s, and death was for the most treated as well natural, a good thing. That's totally alien to ancient traditional christian outlook on death.

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plan of salvation ≠ saved

Ehh gonna disagree on that, Islam and Christianity have pretty clear differences, despite their similarities
I feel like I need to explain where I'm coming from a bit. I was raised Catholic, fell away for a bit when I read the Bible and thought it seemed pretty Protestant (sola fide seemed especially present in the Pauline epistles and the books by John). I didn't become Protestant because I still found most arguments against Protestants pretty compelling (like the 1500 years one), and I also found that many other passages in the Bible were clearly teaching Catholic doctrine (like the real presence of the Euchurist).
I went through a bit of a period where I studied different religious viewpoints and came to this eventual conclusion
I read the New Testament and the Quran together, while praying to God to help me. I eventually decided that Christianity was true, and went back to Church. I later even posted about this as a success story on this very board.
Recently, however, a lot of old doubts about Catholicism have been coming back to my mind, and I've been drawn back to the idea of converting, generally to Orthodoxy or Islam


Haha, I never knew that stuff about John Calvin. That's really nutty. I've honestly only been vaguely aware of Swedenborg, I haven't even read his stuff. That's just plain crazy though, I knew he influenced Mormonism but I didn't know he was on the same level of crazy

*err excuse me, miscommunication on my part, what Swedenborg saw, in his visions, and out of body experiences may have been real to him, but it wasn't the real heaven or hell, he wasn't in hell, or heaven dude he was still in the arterial Plane. He was more than likely as father rose points out in, the book better, than how Im trying to convey. He was being manipulated by demons dude.

Yea in he out of body experiences when he claimed he was in heaven. He claimed he debated Luther, and made him he the error of his was in theology, but failed to get John Calvin, out of his Calvinism. Pretty funny, but again that doesn't sound like heaven, or hell cause for one in Swedenborg's writings, there's in no final judgement, or toll house experience. It honestly dude unironically seems like that dude from 2 centuries ago got used and abused by fallen spirits. I'd just say get the book cause father rose does a better job at explaining this, as he was a monk, and a good one it seems when was still on earth with us.

This couldn't be more wrong.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
"All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331"

"Plan of salvation" has nothing to do with "definitely going to Heaven". It means that, as you can read in 842, the Church professes that all humankind has a shared destiny which is God - and that muslims are a bit special in that regard as they, like jews, proclaim to worship the God of Abraham. That and nothing else. Literally ANY person on earth is part of the plan of salvation - whether God will let them achieve that or not is … you might've guessed it … up to God Himself.
Stop lumping together the Catholic Church with heretic homo-praising sects that have twisted and perverted God's revelation.

Orthos profess the very same.

that is not what CCC 841 means.
It means that God did not plan for just so and so people to be saved but has a plan of salvation for all people. But that doesn't mean that Muslims actually follow that plan (or they'd be Christian) or that they are saved.

It does say that they worship God, but also states that they *profess* to hold the faith of Abraham. Not that they actually do.

Either way the Catechism itself is not infallible, though some parts of it refer to infallible teachings.

The actual document behind it Lumen Gentium presents it differently, prefacing it with:
"Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God" before the part that the catechism quotes.

It then continues
"Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience."

and

"Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."

So its essentially referring to God having a plan for everyone, including Muslims and Jews, but people not necessarily accepting that plan. It also seems to be talking about invincible ignorance, or any other such cases where a person through no fault of their own goes through life without hearing the Gospel.

As such it is *not* saying that Muslims are saved, rather reaffirming that Christ died for all men, and that in some cases a person is not necessarily damned because they didn't hear the Gospel.

It furthermore states:
"Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator."

Which is essentially saying that
1. There is perhaps some truth in this or that false religion
2. But the full truth is only found in the Church and in Christ Jesus
3. The false religions, despite containing small amounts of truth, have twisted the truth and follow lies
4. and this is the key part, they "serve the creature rather than the Creator", which seems to be saying that despite them *professing* to follow the faith of Abraham and despite them technically worshipping God they do not actually serve God. They serve Satan.

So no, hedging your bets with Islam could potentially damn you, considering that you have heard the truth and rejected it, if you convert to Islam.

Do this:

Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT CONVERT TO ISLAM. I live in Lebanon, and I'm around Muslims everyday. Sure some of them are nice people, but they aren't real Muslims. GO AND WATCH ACTS17APOLOGETICS ON YOUTUBE. He will dispel all doubts regarding Islam. Please go user. It is better to convert to Orthodoxy than convert to Islam if given the choice.

Fuϲk the sand tiggers and their moon-worshiping monkey demon of a prophet.

1. Prots are wrong, they aren't an authority on the subject because they aren't the true Church of Christ
2. 841 says that the plan of salvation includes them, not that they are saved. The plan of salvation includes all people. Also if you read literally 5 lines down it says in bold text "Outside the Church there is no salvation"

Yeesh that's Catholic doctrine? Makes me glad that I made the right choice.

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whats the difference?

Muhammad vs. Jesus: Judging Religions by Their Central Figures

If you were reading Koran, you would know that it doesn't

Non-apostolics YES!!!!

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That's not what the Catechism says…

Are you going to believe what every cult tells you?


Stop believing in Protestantism. It's a heresy and it's dying out like all other heresies in Christian history. Most mainline sects of Protestantism won't be around in the next century.


What makes him a credible source? There have been many loonies with weird visions throughout history, my friend.


You can't take the verse out of context. It says that Muslims claim to worship the same God, but then a few lines down:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

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Because you're not "hedging your bets", you're denying Christ and going to hell

Its written that they indeed adore the same God as christians, not just proclaim to do so.

This doesn't make sense.


So the only way of a Muslim to worship God is if he has no fault of his own ignorance. But the Cathecism talks about all muslims, not just the ones that aren't to be blamed.


"The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church's faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church's Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion" (Fidei Depositum)

1. Universalism also includes the belief sinners go to hell before they go to heaven.
2. Jesus is God to Christians. He is a prophet to Muslims, who therefore think it's blasphemy to worship him.

“Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is
antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son.” (1 John 2:22)

Who denies Jesus Christ also denies the Father. How can muslims worship the same God as christians??

“Moreover, we trust that with God’s help another benefit will accrue to the Christian commonwealth; because from this union, once it is established, there is hope that very many from the abominable sect of Mahomet will be converted to the Catholic faith.” (Pope Eugene IV)

“It is an insult to the holy name and a disgrace to the Christian faith that in certain parts of the world subject to Christian princes where Saracens live, sometimes apart, sometimes intermingled with Christians, the Saracen priests, commonly called Zabazala, in their temples or mosques, in which the Saracens meet to adore the infidel Mahomet, loudly invoke and extol his name each day at certain hours from a high place… This brings disrepute on our faith and gives great scandal to the faithful. These practices cannot be tolerated without displeasing the divine majesty. We therefore, with the sacred council’s approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in Christian lands. (Pope Clement V)

"Worship the same god"
vs

On jesus:
vs


k

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Because then you'd be a Muslim.