What does Zig Forums think of the three secrets of Fatima
Absolutely blessed, although I'd recommend you czech behind them just in case someone's damning themselves.
We had one of the century's most famous saints appear after death to cure a man in my hometown of cancer. Picked him up right near the overhyped burger stand, dressed in a white "baker's uniform" looking for a ride to Maria Regina (like a half hours walk away). Hands were laid on in the car, Holy Spirit was felt, and, after he dropped him off, he turned away for a split second and never saw him again.
messengerofpadrepio.com
thank you lad, what a story. God is great in his saints.
orthochristian.com
So Mary being able to literally bind the wrath of Christ does not conflict with Catholic dogma? I understand that Mary's prayers are powerful, but THAT powerful? If so, that seems pretty divided.
Mary is an intercessor, not one to "hold Jesus' wrath back." Jesus can unleash or hold back his wrath just fine on his own. Even back in the Old Testament, he gave the peoples of the Earth something like 200 years IIRC to repent before sending the Great Flood. He literally patiently tolerated decades of kings dropping the ball, with brief scourgings by neighboring tribes, before the complete destruction of Judah and Israel and the following Babylonian Exile. He has no need for Mary to control his temper. He is a perfectly dispassionate God, with his moments being said as "anger" and "jealousy" in the Bible being expressions designed for us humans to try to comprehend his reactions towards us.
That's a lot of hoops and devotion directly dedicated to Mary to jump through for just "grace assistance". Also, this line was forgotten:
Reparations to Mary's Immaculate Heart, for sins, should not be a thing in the first place Reparations for sins should be to God. Mary is only for intercession, not someone to pay. Even if it's not forgiveness, it is payment/restitution directed at Her, not God..
Prayers to Mary's Immaculate Heart are flimsy? (as well as a promise of salvation as a product of said prayers?) Reparations for sins made against the Immaculate Heart of Mary is flimsy?
Extra-curricular works offering insta-salvation is flimsy?:
Wearing special medals and scapulars is flimsy?
The messages of devotion made by the Fatima apparition seem more centered on Mary than Christ.
Then why wear it? Why adopt it? If it is literally unnecessary at worst, or superseded by better things at best, they why have it at all? At best, it comes off as bonus points in getting into Heaven focused around Mary as you said earlier, rather than Christ (which I'm still having trouble buying, considering the Salvation language.)
(cont'd)
Also:
Are you referring to the video in OP's post? It's a video made by what appears to be a sedevacantist church: mostholyfamilymonastery.com that claims that the Third Secret of Fatima is an open and shut case of predicating a great apostasy from the top down. When in fact, the Third Secret, according to most sources, is a vague mystery open for interpretation:
en.wikipedia.org
So far the only sources that are in concurrence with the video are other sede/conspiracy theory sites:
novusordowatch.org
(This one in particular even says Vatican II is directly predicted by Fatima.)
The Fatima apparition claimed that doing her First Saturday and Immaculate Heart rituals and consecrating Russia would prevent World War II and Communism from spreading (what I assume is implied by "Russia's errors.")
Why did these things still happen? Why was the second secret not revealed until World War 2 was underway? Why has Russia been undergoing an Orthodox revival in the aftermath of catastrophic levels of persecution by the atheist Marxists, rather than being converted to Roman Catholicism?
Fatima does not seem to add up.
[worry intensifies]
It's not like she physically has him in some wrestling hold; God is listening to his Mom because he dosen't want to see her in sorrow, that's literally all. God has been storing up wrath ever since Romans 2:5 was written (who on earth taught you that the jealous, wrathful god who is love itself is somehow "dispassionite"?) and yes, the prayers of the creatures God loves are THAT powerful, just ask the people of Nineveh.
Participating in the sacraments and praying the rosary are the most technical of acrobatics, yes.
Yes, she promises salvation, through her grace and intercession as she stated previously. One sentence doesn't erase the previous one, that's just shoddy logic.
Have you considered the fact that God does not want his mother to suffer from the sight of sinners as much as he does? That God, as Matthew 25:45 shows, takes affronts to his littlest children as affronts to him, suffering their pain as his own? From there, have you considered the fact that Mary is not his littlest childld but his greatest, purest, most innocent, most beloved creature? His parent? Have you considered that an immaculate heart, of perfect empathy, suffers all pain as if it were it's own? With all this in mind, is restitution really so much to ask for all that these two have suffered at the hands of Russia?
Yes
Yes.
Something something orthoprot.
When Mary literally shows up with the brown scapular in her hand and makes the sun dance? You betcha.
When the entirety of 2000 years of your faith is centered on Jesus Christ, the woman who, by the grace of God, can hold back his wrath and make the sun dance deserves a little spotilight, especially give what she has promised her graces can go. If you can't tell, you haven't given me any good reason to doubt these facts.
Because I would like to dedicate myself to the creature who has served creation the most, and has served me personally through by me the grace of a deep personal connection with the Gospel via meditating on the mysteries of the rosary, and in turn this friend will be a powerful advocate in my favor towards God. Mary was a mother for me where my own wasn't a lot of the time. The rosary was my first true taste of the spiritual life, and it has been my wellspring ever since. It's never been a matter of what road gets me to heaven the fastest, it's been the love of a son for his mother, plain and pure.
No I'm referring to the part where she asked us to pray "O My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are in most need of Thy mercy." Again, the kingdom is not divided against itself.
Because Russia wasn't consecrated like Mary requested until the Cold War was nearly over. How did you read the prophecy and miss that condition?
Avoidance of general panic? Fear of backlash against superstition? Clerical corruption? No good reason that I can think of but not an argument against the sun falling from the sky, the general accuracy of the prophecy, and fact that none of the children objected to the published version.
Because Russia was never Catholic and clearly God is with the Orthodox Church if is to be believed.
I'd just point out here that His response is it's nothing to do with Him, "My hour has not yet come". But then He does it anyway, for her. He had a plan, He changed it, for her.
Demonic or fake. Any idiot can see that.
Read and reread, then think critically. The points where this is false are apparent.
The things these "things" allegedly say or do only ever fall in line with misunderstood theology or self held desires of those reporting them.
The Orthodox Church. Part of becoming Christ-like being achieving as much of a dispassionate (meek) state as possible is not a coincidence. His emotions are to be understood on human terms. He is God, after all. Our mortal minds cannot even begin to comprehend his complexity and grandeur.
Jesus was also God AND human.
There's a big difference between a city of people repenting and fasting for their sins when told to by God via Jonah, and the concept of Mary bossing God around.
By the way you don't seem to understand the implications of the first Five Saturdays, "just merely grace assistance" or not:
Being given the "graces necessary" for salvation at the hours of one's death, means instant guaranteed salvation if one does the Five Saturday rituals dedicated to Mary. As an Orthodox, I believe that salvation is a life-long process, not something that can be instantly done and guaranteed via completing a Five Saturday ritual, or just doing Communion every first Friday of every month for nine consecutive months for the Sacred Heart of Jesus Devotion. And even though you claim the Carmel Scapular is just a sign of devotion to Mary, how it's described indicates otherwise:
en.wikipedia.org
First she says "just wear it and be saved", then later she appears and says, oh, by the way, don't forget the Divine Office and be chaste"
Nice clarification. Would've been nice if she'd said that earlier….
Pope Pius XII seems to clarify and make it a bit more palatable:
Okay, okay, that sounds a bit better…. but then one of the Marion apparitions goes and does this:
Ummm… no. That's Jesus' job. Not hers. Period.