So, recently I've become old enough to purchase a handgun and I'm looking for some advice on a good model. Right now a few that I like are
Any thoughts on what I should try as my first? I want something that'll last a good few years and preferably either 9mm, .380, or .40
Also I'm not very much an expert on handguns at all so any advice on parameters like ergonomics, consistent firing, sights, durability, etc. is much appreciated user
.380 ACP is inadequate and defensive ammo more often than not fails to expand. 9mm Makarov is the bare minimum for CC, and 9mm Parabellum should be your lightest choice unless you have a specific pistol in mind for the Mak. 9x19 is by far more effective and available than both of those two. .40 S&W is mostly a meme and is often plagued by manufacturers just converting their 9mm pistols, leading to reliability and service life issues. It also costs more and has less ammo options compared to 9x19 or .45 ACP, with questionable increase in effectiveness largely dependent on your load choice.
Don't buy Springfield products. The company is anti-gun, and besides that, all the XD is is a Better Glock. They have short barrels, annoyingly short recoil springs, and weird weight balance that give them really nasty recoil for seemingly no reason. They're also rather pricy for what they are.
M9s are just overpriced 92Fs, and you can get a police trade-in 92, 92S, 92F, or 92G for usually under $300. Often those are seldom fired and have a lot of life left in them. Be aware that early variants use a heel magazine release, and those magazines will be rarer and will not be interchangeable with the new button release ones.
P320s are cute, but the P229 is a better option for a carry gun and will definitely cost a lot less.
Shame, I was looking at getting a Cheetah. Don't forget about magnums, .357 SIG, 7.62x25, 10mm and .38 Super.
We need to compile a list of anti-gun and pro-gun companies.
What about direct imports from Croatia?
What's the difference?
Didn't these fail drop tests?
I'm planning on going through the cancerous effort required to get a handgun license, and I have decided for my first one to be the CZ 97B
Yeah, I was just going with what's simple and common since this is a first gun. I'm thinking about trading my RIA in .45 for a 10mm service size pistol soon myself, but I wouldn't recommend 10mm Auto for any newbie. 7.62 Tokarev is nice but your commercial ammo choice can be slim.
I think it's literally just rebranding, as in, my understanding is that the Croatian company exports the guns to Springfield on contract and Springfield replaces the grips and adds their markings. Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that, but I've definitely never seen anything to suggest XDs are made locally.
The P320s did supposedly fail the Army safety test, but honestly, I haven't seen any independent testing done and I find it unlikely that SIG USA (not Sig Sauer in this case), even under (((Cohen's))) management, would deliberately sell a dangerous gun. They have a reputation to uphold. More strangely, why would the Army intentionally adopt a dangerous gun? That doesn't really pass the smell test. You can't eat shit and then complain later that it tasted bad, if you knowingly ate shit.
The M9 is a 92FS (not an F, that was a typo before; even then the difference between the F and FS is minute) with a different serial number and military markings stamped on, mostly, but there are a few very tiny differences such as iron sight paint, a couple of slightly different angled cuts like the trigger guard and dust cover, an unnoticeable difference in the shape of the grip frame, and I think the 92FS actually has stronger pins in the trigger group.
P-09
SP-01
Seconding the CZ 75. Even a pre-B is golden.
For a my first handgun I got a CZ 75 Compact a short while ago, and it's pretty great. Can't really go wrong with CZ.
Don't let others sell you their preferences as far as specific guns go. The only universal advice to give is to go to a range that has a rental rack and try some out. A gun you hate shooting and carrying isn't going to do much for you when you leave it at home. Once you've shot some do as much research as possible. it'd suck ass to buy a gun only to find out it's built by Century Arms tier monkeys and is more of a danger to yourself rather than others.
Caliber is a different bag of oranges altogether though. I'm not a ballistician nor will i pretend to be. I carry a 1911 :^)
>The P320s did supposedly fail the Army safety test, but honestly, I haven't seen any independent testing done and I find it unlikely that SIG USA (not Sig Sauer in this case), even under (((Cohen's))) management, would deliberately sell a dangerous gun. They have a reputation to uphold. More strangely, why would the Army intentionally adopt a dangerous gun? That doesn't really pass the smell test. You can't eat shit and then complain later that it tasted bad, if you knowingly ate shit
Requirements for getting your shit adopted by the us military is about 2-3 thai ladyboys and a pound of coke for each asshole in charge or procurement. Glock failed because they just added a thumb safety to a 19 and giving it a 17 grip, completely ignoring the modularity demand. Beretta failed because their imported turkish whores didn't have dicks.
hk p30 or glock 20.
nambu 60
CZ 75b was my first handgun. I'd recommend one. 9mm is cheap and plentiful. The only downside is on the 75b, the slide stop can break after a few thousand rounds. $15 for a spare isn't bad though.
I'm partial to the S&W M&P line myself, but Glocks have a lot of aftermarket support if you intend to tinker with it. If the XD tickles your fancy (I don't like them personally) but a used one. Someone already gave SA their money so you can feel less dirty buying one.
As for .40 S&W I look at it this way. It has the same maximum case pressure of 35,000 psi as the 9mm, not a huge advantage over the 9mm. In fact most autoloader handgun cartridges are on par with each other in terms of performance aside from the 10mm Auto.
And for the love of the Zig Forumsube, never buy RIP ammo or any other gimmick ammo for defense. They underperform and are overpriced.
SP-01 is a discontinued version. No idea why, but CZ stopped selling those. I just like them for their looks - something about that narrow slide top that makes me feel good. It looks elegant unlike myself. When I get the opportunity to buy a pistol, I will try hardest to find myself an SP-01, and if not possible, I'll just settle for P-09 or a similar CY gun
I don't like P-09 like I like SP-01, but it's one of the nicest options on the market now, by many reasons:
- Internal slide rail lowers bore axis a tiny bit
- Very grippy plastic, metal bits with serrations are also grippy
- Amazing capacity (iirc 19+1, plus two more if extended base plate is used, so 21+1 which beats both hi points and glocks alike)
- Stock trigger is one of the best stock triggers, and there are aftermarket triggers available which are actually the best
- Plastic, but still hammer-fired, SA+DA
- Good accuracy out of the box
- Looks are debatable, but IMO it looks rather slick and attractive
- Price is rather low for a pistol of that quality
- Both decocker and manual safety options (just don't lose the fucking decocker spring) easily installable, every cocksucker eceleb has a vid on changing those, overall easy disassembly
Of course, as Strelok says, don't buy into our preferences, but since you are already asking, go ahead and check some CZs out. They have many options, 75 is also an option (just don't buy their 1911 clones, or any 1911 for that matter tbh).
It really depends on
1. your experience with shooting
2. whether you plan on carrying concealed
3. your budget
Note on 1: If you don't know what you're doing at all, I would suggest a 9mm Glock… probably the classic 19. It's cheap, has a simple manual of arms, maintenance is simple, and there are tons of accessories available for it if you choose to go down that route later on. It's a gun that's easy for a beginner yet good enough for a pro. Even if you decide to go for something "better" down the line, you will not want to sell your Glock.
Note on 2: It seems you're leaning toward full-sized pistols, which is fine, but you will have a very difficult time concealing them. If you're dead set on a full-size, I would offer yet another recommendation of a CZ-75. The SP-01 variants are all awesome… I have a Phantom, and I actually prefer it to the all-steel versions. If you do want to go concealed, you'll need something smaller… Glock 19 is about the biggest I can comfortably conceal (I'm not a big guy) but I really prefer smaller single-stack pistols (Glock 43; the new 43x or 48 are interesting as well.) If you want the big gun feel, you can go with a commander-sized 1911, and you might actually even be able to conceal a full-sized 1911 since it's so thin. There are lots of guns out there that will be concealable but still offer high capacity… the Glock 36 comes to mind immediately, plus CZ has a lot of good offerings.
3. Glock comes to mind here for inexpensive but decent handguns. The aforementioned CZ-75s are also inexpensive. In my experience, cheap Berettas are hit or miss. Cheap 1911s are also usually crap (as are many expensive ones), but Rock Island Armory makes a decent budget gun. If you have a bunch of money, you could absolutely get yourself a Sig, but know that it won't necessarily beat the Glock standard of reliability.
Also, I would be remiss not to mention caliber under the budget argument… 9mm is the least expensive caliber that is also decent for self-defense, HOWEVER: keep in mind that good self-defense ammo in 9mm can be more expensive than cheap self-defense ammo in more effective calibers (such as .40, or my favorite, 10mm.) Yeah, 9mm target ammo is dirt cheap, but I'm a fan of practicing with what I carry, which can get very expensive when I'm carrying HST or Critical Defense; but the absolute cheapest 10mm hollowpoints will be more effective than the most expensive 9mm ammo. So do some research, look into prices and availability, look at tons of gel tests (LuckyGunner) and real-ish-world tests (Paul Harrell) and go from there.
Note that I'm not a Glock fanboy… I was staunchly opposed to them for the longest time, but I finally caved and got several and haven't looked back. They're just too much of a staple to not own.
Good luck OP.
I meant Glock 26, not 36. Saged for oops.
Also, people tend to forget or overlook that shit like "RIP" ammo used in a self-defense situation can fuck your shit up in court, because cops and judges tend to notice such things.
As for the gun, why not ruger mark 2? It's cheap, ammo is cheap, and .22 is enough for a noob to learn gun safety rules, proper stance, weapon handling, breath control etc. Don't have to buy a 1k $ handgun right off the bat.
go with the glock 17
Steyr m9, literally the best wonder 9 on the market.
You either don't own guns or you're an NFA kiddie. Why are you LARPing like this?
Here's a pic
Nothing to dislike
Glock F/A conversions are indeed a very real, very illegal thing. All it takes is a special backplate.
Ex.
survivalops.com
thefirearmblog.com
The ergonomics have some weird and questionable design choices. If you're like me, finger grooves prevent you from getting a high and tight grip on the pistol. That exact complaint is why Glock has stopped making them with Gen 5. I do like the extreme height on the beaver tail, though, that's a nice touch and looks pretty schway as well.
Get a pellet (not BB) air pistol and a 22lr target pistol. Start there, handgun is difficult enough to learn as it is, you can never shoot enough or get good enough. You can still shoot 22lr for proficiency after you get a big boi handgun.
For centerfire, I'm going to go with the crowd suggesting the CZ75, its simply a great old gun that WORKS, is proven, has the advantage of single action. I'm old fashioned, the 1911 and Hi Power are always solid choices, even with modern so called "improvements" over the years, SA and a hammer have their positive values, some of us still prefer it. Also the ergonomics of these guns is superior in reality, in the hand, even if modern guns are theoretically superior on paper. If you are thinking the 92, think CZ75 instead. How many people served with that Italian SA/DA and don't like it, or just plain despise them? Plenty. People who served with the other auto loaders I mentioned (CZ75, 1911, Hi Power) have a lot of great things to say of those guns they carried.
Cartridge wise, I'm of the school 357 Magnum/357 Sig/10mm/45 ACP is where you ought to be. Beyond that, 9mm Luger and 38 Special with the right loads are bare minimum. Beyond that 380 and 38 Special light loads are the ABSOLUTE bare minimum in the sense they don't qualify in the first place, but if you are going to cheat the first two tiers DO NOT GO BELOW THIS. If you can handle strong loads later on, stick with the top tier, if not 9mm Luger. 38 Special light loads and 380 ACP stay relevant in the sense people tend to carry pocket guns that are too light to handle even 9mm Luger effectively and eventually you see these calibers and loads used. 380 ACP pocket pistol backup is up to you, but you know what cartridges we are going to recommend, especially for a full size handgun.
380 ACP's problem isn't that it doesn't expand, its the fact that when it expands it does not penetrate deep enough. IF you choose 380 ACP stick with solids, choose a 38 Special pocket revolver go with wadcutters. Other cartridges take a good, long look at what loads are available and compare them to gel tests and keep in mind heavy for caliber bullets tend to do better, and the hollow point design itself is important.
You want a 22 or 9mm with a 22 conversion as your first handgun. Get a CZ P07 with Kadet kit since the good Glock conversions are unobtanium now.
They fixed that problem like a week after it showed up. The guns went off if dropped at a really specific and bizarre angle that didn't show up in normal testing. The military is very thorough in stress testing all of their gear. All in all they offered a free optional recall for all guns on the civilian market.
It's like you want tyrone to kick your teeth in.
I'd recommend a Walther P1, CZ-82 or RIA M1911 which has a .38 Super variant as a cheap starting handgun.
Pre-Mk. 4s are as much of a pain in the ass to strip than fixing a Mercedes by yourself and Mk. 4s are under $1000 anyway with multiple models available.
They're very real the fuck do you mean mate.
I thought he meant turning them into G18s, not a bump stock tier meme accessory. Can confirm Ruger target pistols are a pain in the ass to service, but still not as bad as the Browning Buck Mark. Why are designated civilian guns often so obnoxious under the hood?
You're mistaken, the SP-01 was never discontinued. Sales of the SP-01 Phantom (which is probably the one you mean as you mentioned a polymer frame) were suspended for a few years because CZ was fulfilling a contract for the Czech military, but as of 2018 they're available for civilian sale again. And I'll second this recommendation, The SP-01 (either the regular or the phantom, but I prefer the phantom) is top notch.
Now why do you say that? Sure, I wouldn't recommend a 1911 as a first gun or even a third–they have far too many parts and are far too finicky to be a good service pistol when others are available. But if you want a collectible from a better period in history, they're pretty cool. And Dan Wessons, CZ's 1911 line, are some of the best 1911s on the market.
If you absolutely must have a striker-fired gun you can't go wrong with Steyr's lineup. I prefer hammer guns myself, however.
I was talking about Phantom exactly, thanks for correcting. Thought they are no longer a thing, since I couldn't find them at CZ website (found one at local retailer though - if only it would be there when I will actually will be able to buy it).
Dude, there's your answer. Just compare Phantom / p-09 with any 1911 for that matter, and you will see which pistol wins.
I would probably even recommend a steyr or glock before a 1911. Steyrs look kinda goofy, but they are (or seem to be) good pistols. Fuck glocks tbh, but can't say they're bad as first gun.
I was thinking of getting either a 75B for a range toy or a 75 Compact for a carry gun. What do you guys think of them, I'm moving up from a Bersa thunder 380 which was always more of a range toy I could theoretically carry if I wanted. I'm also thinking of getting a CZ 82 and making it my carry gun. Do any of you have any experience with them?
They are really nice, fine guns. I'd pick makarov due to just simplicity and number of parts but these have better that Mak's mediocre triggers, are more smooth and better build iirc.
I also found one used with some (really easy to fix) cosmetic issues for $200, I haven't seen any Makarovs that low. From what I keep reading it seems to be mostly a double stack Makarov derivative designed because the Czechs had a habit of saying "No fuck you Ivan, we're doing our own gun"
Makarovs pretty much always used to go below $200 back before imports got niggered. Nothing good ever lasts…
Shitty springfield meme gun, even if it was decent, don't support springshit
Fires if you shake it hard enough, shit (((Sig USA))) quality control pretending to Sig Sauer
Kino choice, try and get a G-model safety.
Ppetty much anything of decent quality will be fine, just whatever your preference is. Glocknades, Steyr M9s and most things from Walther are good.
Also kino choices
To further hinder civilian resistance for areas with restrictions or that civilian guns are meant for sport meaning they're built to be comfortable and more luxurious than a robust weapon that's easy to maintain as its primary requirement.
Bullshit. It was originally intended for combat bolt action rifles as a means of completely de-militarizing them. Saw off the foreend and remove the bayonet lug, saw off the stripper clip guide, you now have a rifle that might be good for marksmen/sniper duties, but has been completely fucked over for line infantry use. This is continued on since then and eventually it took the form of "sporter rifle/assault rifle" designations to de-militarize military style weapons. It has NOTHING to do with comfort or luxury. A handbuilt custom hunting rifle, bolt action, is a tough and capable weapon, the niceness of it does not decrease its abilities at all. Its never been aesthetics, that's misleading, nor has luxury ever been an impediment to ability. A beautiful gun is just as useful as an ugly one, destroying aesthtics does not make it any more useful. Keep in mind the objective has always been the useful parts of the weapon (magazines, stripper clip guides, bayonet lugs, capacity, ect).
In fact, I would say the case for ugly guns is the exact opposite. Ugly firearms became all the rage, anti aesthtics became all the rage in guns in the late 1980's when the government was gearing up for mass gun control, pushed the Hughes Amendment, right about the time the US assault weapons ban was passed along with other major gun control, when anti gunners were gearing up to change society's perception of arms. The whole "we need to make guns ugly" was NEVER about making soldiers or gun owners think more objectively about their guns, it has always been a plot to make guns ugly, change perceptions, destroy the gun culture, and make guns look worse and put them in a worse light. Remember that there were gun controllers out complaining about Westerns and cowboys and Colt SAA promoting violence, they openly worried that beautiful old guns built the gun gun culture, created the culture of people who were in the shooting sports. When you promote the destruction of aesthetics of firearms you are working for the gun banners.
Remember, the same people making ugly uniforms for modern militaries are openly anti military. Remember that the same people pushing ugly guns telling you it makes you more objective to the weapon are anti gun.
Just shave off the finger groove. Not perfect, but it works.
My first handgun was a M92S because they are cheap as fuck if you find a decent police turn in and they shoot well.
If it your first hand gun and you are just going to get used to shooting on it, go for something similar; a nice solid beater you can train on.
Hi everyone, OP here. Just wanted to thank everyone for responding and providing good advice, I did some more research based on your responses and I've grown fond of the CZs based on their reviews, history, and videos of them (even the compact models) being used in target practice, etc. Definitely looks like a good manufacturer for a first handgun.
I just purchased a CZ 75 SP-01, a spare slide, spare magazine, case, and a holster. As soon as I get time this weekend I'm going to go to the range and see how it fires. As I stated in the first post, I don't have much technical knowledge on handguns. I do, however, have a good bit of firing experience between the .45 long colt, .357 mag, and .45 auto. Just haven't really spent much time with the 9x19, 9x21, or .380. I shopped around for competitive pricing and ended up finding a factory new gun for $630. Tbh that seems like a fairly good buy in my area considering over half the stores and shops I checked wanted over $700 which seems ridiculous. I suppose I could always get my FFL Type 3 and just buy the gun at retail price but that
Either way thanks again and I'll definitely let you all know what I think once I'm able to fire it.
Meant to say that the FFL application might give the ATF a bit more leverage on me than I want them to have, like checking my guns, etc.
"No practical value" isn't the same as "never buy," though, which is the part that confused me. If I had the disposable income I'd happily buy the Fudd gun that won two world wars :^).
Any particular reason as to why?
If you got all those other things you mentioned for $630 you got a sweet deal, if it was just the pistol you still did good from what I've seen on prices near me. Hope it serves you well.
k bitch boy.
t. explosive amputee
Repent
???
Is it a caliber conversion? I've never heard of a spare slide for a handgun other than that. Otherwise a SP-01 is a perfectly good handgun.
I absolutely love how they look, and would buy one as well (Coonan 1911 in .357 looks good and has a (subjectively) better caliber). However, in the context of this thread, it is a bad purchase, however you think about it.
It is a good gun, congratulations. I wish you tight groups and swift follow-ups my friend.
Nice choice. Did you go Phantom (poly frame) or the regular one?
for what purpose?
Great choice. CZ makes a quality product, and every CZ 75 variant I've used was an absolute pleasure.
If you're a former big-caliber guy, 9mm is going to feel anemic… don't let that discourage you. It's a perfectly capable round for defense, and out of a full-sized gun like an SP-01 you'll be getting very close to manufacturer-rated velocities and energy levels, giving you the performance that the ammo manufacturer intended. I would strongly recommend taking a look at LuckyGunner's ballistics tests as well as videos by Paul Harrell to help you find a defensive load to suit your needs.
First: if you don't already own a rifle, buy an AR15 before you buy a handgun.
Second: buy a Glock 19.
Return the slide and buy 3 or 4 additional magazines.
75's can sometimes develop cracks on the slide, inherentely because the pressure is less evenly distributed compared to say browning hp and jericho (the slide shape desing forces the barrel to return to same spot for accuracy, but can cause problems such as this one).
As far as i know there really is not any remedy for this aside from replacing them.
Recoil springs are also bit iffy and wear out bit faster on cz's than some other guns.
The components should be relatively cheap though, so it isn't really a problem.
No love for the Walther PPQ?
You don't know what you are missing.
Nicest out of the box trigger on the market, tbh.
Also, I understand the distaste for Springfield as a company, but I have an XD 9mm Service model that has been incredibly reliable and accurate. It shoots easy, is as basic as it gets, and I have used it to teach at least 5 people how to use a handgun with it, including two teenaged girls. As a first handgun I would have to include it as a very good choice, and don't see any good reason to not include it as a good choice for anyone's general purpose carry gun for that matter. I'd probably carry it if I didn't have the PPQ.
yeah, you'll figure out that 9mm sucks.
Came from .45acp and went to .40 to .357 sig/.40, settled on that for CC. Got a 44 and 357 magnum, love them to death. Tried 9mm and I was like, "wow, this is a pussy round," and it is indeed a pussy round.
Nice mouse gun ammo. 10mm is the fucking Zig Forumsaliber
Depends what you want. Don't bother with .40, just stick with the tried and true 9mm or .45. If you want big boi bullets just go with 10mm, don't compromise with .40. M9s are alright and since they're being phased out of the US military surplus will be there, mostly magazines and equipment not actual firearms so that could be alluring. Personally I'd say just get a Glock 19, maybe a 19X or 45 (it's in 9mm) if you got big hands but still want that 19 slide. If you want something way classier, get a Browning Hi-Power. I can't think of anyone who would bash on it, outside of the magazine disconnect safety which is easily removable. If you're on a budget, Makarovs are fine but ammo won't be as available as 9mm. Ergonomics it really depends on your hand size and how it all fits, for me the Polymer 80 grip feels amazing in my hand and so does the Browning Hi-Power. The durability of handguns are pretty good if you go with reputable makers, (FN, Glock, old Colts, CZ, etc). Sights are another thing that completely depends on your preference and your own eyeballs. Lastly, for consistent firing it just depends on you. Dry fire and live fire are the only ways to get consistent at shooting a handgun.
CZ97B = Beautiful super accurate pistol, one of the finest the hundreds i have owned !
"of" the hundreds I have owned! herp-derp etc.
between 10mm and 9mm. 9mm shills have only themselves to blame. Even so, .40 still has more energy than 9mm and 45.
9mm is a pussy round.
Tokarev
Though in america it's required by law for it to have aftermarket safety so you won't be able to learn all the rules of gun-safety with appropriate consequences for breaking them.
Not only that, it's a bad pussy round, as women and police officers still find themselves unable to handle it. It is a pussy round that pretends to be powerful, failing at either.
Worry not as Serbian trigger safety won't offer any more safety than a glock wouldaside from the trigger being not so disgusting you don't want to touch it, so dumb shooters still have all the opportunities to properly learn the importance safety rules and a round more powerful than a mouse fart will further increase the chances of the lesson being memorable.
lol this is why I love Russia.
i recommend you look at the FN 57
Five seveN is where the FN comes from
No.
Glock 19 generally considered best all around gun. Good for CCW but shoots like real gun. It will be nicer in a holster on your hip if you do Armed Guard work and hopping in and out of car all the time. Gen 3 is considered by many to be better than Gen 4.
BUT…IMO what really matters is how a handgun fits YOUR HAND.
To me, XD just felt wrong compared to Glock.
And AR-15 stands for Assault Rampager 15 dead children per second.
I never understood why anyone would want to buy a sporterized rifle. There's no collecter value (Even though bubbas price it that way), they are usually butt ugly, and if you just want to go hunting or shoot targets there are way better bolt action rifles specifically made for just that, at a better price, in calibers that are better suited for hunting (since you don't want your game all blown up) as opposed to cartridges designed for downing soldiers.
The only one you need, Ameribro.
It's ok little guy. Maybe one day you'll get to shoot with us when it's "Bring your kid to the range" day.
I want to eat that gun.
Ez999
Go to a shooting range. Rent each of those guns. Plink away. You'll like one of them more than the rest. Buy that one. Glad I could help.
I think you should look at the Coonan 1911 .357 Magnum automatic pistol. Real knocking power gun
I bet you enjoy eating out of the trash too
I bought a NEW American made sig, that was fucked up form the factory (worng parts installed), rattles like a skeleton, and when I contacted sig, they told me their records showed QC checked off on it, so it could not have been them- in other words it was "altered by someone" after it left the factory .
I would say get the m9, have not had problems with them, and also for the price look at pic related, like a glock but more ergonomic. The only downside is no aftermarket parts and mags cost $30, but compared to the glock, 100 times more comfy.
(checked)
Fuck Sig CS. They always blame the customer for shit like that. I own an older P220 I bought used and didn't have issues with it, but I'd never buy a new Sig. The QC is horrible too. I heard a story of a guy who bought a P229 locally in 9mm, that was actually a .40. The barrel said 9mm and was marked wrong, only noticing when he had issues properly cambering a round. When he called Sig CS they claimed he was using incorrect ammo, and when he told them it was their brand of ammo they said he should consult a firearm instructor. He went to a gunsmith which is when it was discovered it was a .40. Sig finally agreed to service it to correct the issue after the gunsmith's shop called and said they'd discontinue all Sig products if they didn't assist. This was in 2014 for reference.
How do these goons have gov't contracts?
Liquidated the QC section and took those funds to buy hookers and blow for procurement officers?
On topic, AIM has Glock 17 police trade ins for under $400. Lot worse someone could do on a budget.
I'm always weary of just pure gelatin test as it doesn't take into account bone and clothing, which can have significant effects. Like in the luckygunner tests the speer 124gr gold dot +P performed perfectly whereas in the brassfetcher bone+gelatin test it completely failed.
brassfetcher.com
Probably why the 357mag has had the historical reputation of being an effective round. A 1400fps muzzle velocity pretty much ensures bullet expansion regardless of clothing and bone.
I think my Glawk has autism.
Ballistic effects are usually overrated when determining a firearm, just don't use shit aluminum ammo. Using your average FMJ or HP rounds will usually cause enough damage with well placed shots to stop a threat.
Realistically, 9mm is fine, .40 cal is fine, .357 sig is actually decent, they just ramped the price up and sell a box of 50 plain FMJ rounds for like $39.
In the end, a well placed shot does a lot more than expensive ammo and shitty aim. Mossad used to use .22 cal for assassinations and air martial standard issue pic related because you can get great aim and almost no noise hazard.
Fuck off back to cuckchan.
My Polski Brother speaks the truth, def get a CZ and enjoy superior Czechnology
Too many digits to be UNIX
As far as I know, 4kanker adds exactly 4 digits to the Unix time an image is posted at
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
Personally, I recommend the CZ-75B over all of those. I've shot all but the 320 in your list, but have also owned HK's, S&W, assorted surplus handguns and 1911s, but the CZ really takes the cake IMO as far as ergonomics, reliability and accuracy. I got my first CZ last December, but I really don't see myself buying any other pistols from other brands aside from more surplus stuff.
Beretta apparently made a 92fs Centennial edition that had a frame mounted safety, target sights, a beefed up and lightened slide, lightened hammer with reduced lock time and a number of other accurizing and usability modifications that for some fucking reason they dont offer on non limited editions. Italians man.
I'll follow up this post with a CZ SP-01 since it comes in 3 major models that I can probably name off the top of my head.
Basic package with a safety in place of the decocker with a DA/SA trigger and the SA trigger is absolutely nice.
Comes with a decocker that sets the hammer at half-cock for DA until fired then set to SA, same deal
A polymer-framed SP-01 handy for carry due to its lighter construction but same deal as the rest.
My SP-01 so far was broken in with a mix of Fiocchi 115gr and Winchester 124gr White box at 300 rds and I absolutely love the shit out of it for its soft recoil, accuracy, and it running with no hiccups so far. If you want to mod yours or any other CZ pistols down the line, Cajun Gun Works or CZ Customs are generally recommended alot.
I'd go for something in the filipino problem solver caliber with a 33 round mag option tbh. M9's seem ok tho.
Personally I own the CZ 75B SA only model, I love it to death. In retrospect I may have got something with a decocker, but I like the pistol enough to carry it frequently. I'll likely get the compact SP-01 in the future, and use the SA for plinking and in situations where OCing is more preferable, like in the woods. That said I love this handgun, and I feel fortunate I got it before CZ discontinued them, I've found it has some oddities to it, such as the slide being a P-01 slide, its ambi safety and its frame is more shaped like the P-01, just with a smaller dust cover.
I do like the M9 a lot, I don't own one, just shot them in the military. I know a lot of the guys I know don't like it, but my only issue with it is that the magazine release is kinda small. I'll probably buy a 92fs eventually.
I forgot to add a suppressor so you don't lose 10% of your hearing after shooting it.
nice, a year ago i got my first handgun and it was cz sp01 phantom. i looks like everybody here gets cz pistols
cz75 is a meme gun.
double/single semiautos are dogshit
9mm is dogshit
so cz75 is a dogshit double whammy
you must really hate your money to waste it like that.
this is the level of cognitive dissonance you're dealing with when trying to tell 9mm shills they can't have their cake and eat it to.
you're a fucking retard.
confirmed Walmart kiddie that never shoots his gun
it is a semiauto version of .357 magnum, it is far, far beyond your micropenis 9mm. You'd know that if you ever shot one, or if you ever shot at all.
gg no re torpedo.
it replicates the standard 125 grain load that's been around forever and by which the .357 mag made itself famous.
Cry more, 9mm pussy.
Post your guns.