Can I get the Zig Forums redpill on Islam? I know some things about it that would prove it false (such as the many contradictions found in the Qur'an), but I would like to hear the Zig Forums redpill or refutation on Islam.
Pic somewhat related
Islam
James Russell
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Isaiah Murphy
What is there to refute? It's at best idolatry and at worst Muhammad was an agent of Satan. It evil.
Cooper Ramirez
Even though the Quran forbids idols (espically pictures of the prophets)
Even though the Quran tells people to not lie, cheat, steal, rape, or commit murder. It quotes Jesus the most and calls Mary the Holiest woman. Calls out satan for his lies and trickery. Tells people to not force the religion on others…etc
Funny enough, the religion that creates the most idols and worships someone that didn't ask to be worshiped calls Islam idolatry.
Think about it this way OP. Muslims are unitarian while Christians are trinitarian. Muslims get their word directly from God like the jews did in the OT while Christians have to interpret four different gospels and the OT to try and understand what God has been telling them.
In all honesty OP, just go to the trini thread on /islam/ if you want a redpill. Comming here for the truth on islam is like asking the DNC to write a biography on Trump.
James Carter
Come on. 'It's heresy' is not even an argument.
If you want to go within the Biblical framework mention 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 referring to supposed apparitions of Archangel Gabriel to Muhammad and, in the case of Mormons, Joseph Smith.
You're absolutely terrible at this and I'm going to assume that a Deus Vult LARPer due to the Jerusalem cross.
Unless it comes to conversion to Islam and to follow Allah. Consider the abrogating Sword Verse and the verses of the Qur'an I will mention below.
Consider that you're worshipping a structure that's pagan in origin three or five times a day, and that the Shi'a praise human beings of the highest religious titles in Islam as having influence on theological matters despite 'everything being on the Qur'an and the Sunnah'.
However, I've got to say, that you're less prone to idolatry than some Christian traditions that aren't Biblical.
The Kaaba, however, is a big deal, considering that Muhammad and the Qurayish simply appropiated it and declared it as a way to praise Allah. Fair enough.
Wrong.
Qur'an 4:89; 2:217; 3:72, 86-87, 90; 4:137; 5:54; 16:106; 33:14; 47:25-27; 73:11; 74:11.
Again, depends on the Christian branch. Kaaba and the Shi'a again. Quranists…maybe
Surah 2:87; 2:253….who is that Holy Spirit that God is referring to here?
Jesus got His word directly from God as did Muhammad, and it was recorded with more precision, as seen due to the consistency in the Gospels and because Muhammad's revelations were much more difficult to record due to the spontaneous nature of the revelations themselves, gaps later had to be filled. The Qur'an might be corrupted and not as well preserved as the Bible through time.
I do recommend OP to go to /islam/ and do his own research with critical thinking regarding religion.
As is the same case for the truth of Christianity in /islam/. I still recommend him to go there.
Note: I don't mind religious debate and research at all, like I wrote above. You seem like a good natured Muslim. Also, try not to use the pills thing, ideas, arguments, and reasoning are becoming a pharmacy, leave that to the people in the pathetic MGTOW, MRA, and PUA movements that both Christians and Muslims can disagee with completely. They're scum.
Lincoln Butler
…I think this is the longest post I've written here, but the first reply to OP (Jerusalem cross) was so terrible that I had to argument with my faith in a manner that isn't embarrassing.
Christian Nguyen
Not him but Muslims think that was Archangel Gabriel, from what I know.
Evan Ward
The idea behind it is that Jesus wasn't the Messiah, he was a prophet, and muhammed was the last prophet.
There's a ton of completely wrong teachings in it, stuff that was common pagan beliefs and hearsay at the time.
It also has some principals that Christians would find very objectionable. Abrogation, that if later "revelations" conflict with earlier ones, the later ones take precedence. And that you can lie about the tenants if it would help to convert someone or if your life is at stake. There's a word for that one, but I can't remember it.
While Christians have Jesus as the example of behavior and life structure, islam uses muhammed, who was a bandit warlord that had eleven wives, thought he was possessed by demons at the beginning, and died because -get this- a jewish woman whose family he killed fed him a poisoned lamb.
Plus the whole bit about how he said the bible and the torah were true; how "people of the book" (us) are the worst among all peoples and to be subjugated and taxed 50%; how muhammed was "made victorious through terror;" and the whole 'satanic verses' bit.
the board mole is here, I see.
Owen Murphy
Is that why you pray to the Kaaba (a black box) five times a day?
There's nothing of value there. The Muslims just mock the Trinity and provide no solid counterarguments to the points presented by Christians. Whenever a Christian starts to get the upper hand in a discussion with a Muslim, the board owner of the board volunteer steps in to stop it.
Carson Barnes
Using quotes derived from a document half a millenia divorced from his actual ministry, as opposed to multiple compilations of oral tradition who's theology is verified by a follower, Paul, who preached only a few years after.
Your prophet cleared the idols out of the Kaaba and when a rock fell from the sky you put one back in, plus you deify your prophet far more than the ancient Israelite deified theirs. If you're going to criticize our practices then hold your own to the same standard.
faith to the same standards.
If you can prove to me that you actually understand trinitarian theology then we can talk, because I've been through the trinity thread and their grasp on the subject is aggressively ignorant. Hell, the Quran thinks we believe that God is 1/3rd of the trinity, why would we trust a document that drops the ball on the subject that hard?
So the old testament isn't a corruption now?
And the proper interpretation has been preserved in the Church since the time of the apostles. God sets up the priesthood to preserve proper interpretation with the Israelites, and God in the flesh sets up the Church to preserve it with the rest of the world. What's your point?
Also please nobody shit on this guy and drive him away/deeper into his error. The Lord expects better of us.
Connor Scott
It also says jinns (traditional arabic ghosts or spirits) will fly out the toilet and up your bottom if you dont wipe your ass with an odd number of stones.
William Garcia
Quran =/= Islamic Bible. Instead of Christ being the Word of God. The Word of God is given in the Quran.
Muslims worship Quran and venerate Muhammad, in a similar way to how we Catholics worship Christ and veberate Mary.
Muslims also see themselves, not as the last iteration, but rather as the original worshippers of God.
Islam is the first WE WUZ pseudo-religion. It intended on giving the Arab people a greater feeling of biblical legitimacy and it’s bubbling up was mostly due to an inferiority complex felt living amongst Jews and Christians.
Daniel Johnson
If you want to get to historical Islam, Muhammad might've had actual revelations by unknown entities or simply epileptic visions, which eventually he used for his own advantage by going as a street preacher. After gathering a small number of followers and marrying the daughters of extremely poor peasants due to being a Qurayish, he eventually gathered more followers when his conquests proved succesful, taxing 'people of the Book'. Due to avarice the followers multiplied because of the material and earthly gains they could get due to village plundering, murder, and rape. Life or death conversions also occured, ISIL style.
I remember there was this historical event where about 2.5k Jews were slaughtered, including the leader of a Jewish tribe. Muhammad took his daughter as a wife afterwards.
Samuel Phillips
Dominic Ortiz
The god of islam isn't the same as the Abrahamic God either.
"allah is father to no one," instead muslims are his slaves.
Elijah Young
good shit.
Parker Harris
harvardhouse.com
Mason Perry
I want to see this posted in /islam/ and try to see it refuted.
Asher Cox
We have IDs m8.
Thanks user. I think the word you're looking for is taqiyya.
Caleb Lee
Oliver Perry
Here's St. John of Damascus' take on it.
orthodoxinfo.com
Liam Morris
As a Lebanese, I would find St. John of Damascus' teachings more "accurate", so to speak.
Benjamin Wright
They accuse us of being polytheists anyhow, just in case one of their own loses his stomach for endless murder.
Jonathan Flores
Keep in mind that Islam is contained within:
1) the biography of "Muhammad" (the "Sira")
2) the "Quran" (so-called eternal "word" of "allah") [yes, I deliberately left "allah" uncapitalized]. In truth the "Quran" is a collection of argumentative recitations in poetic form.
3) the "hadith"- a collection of third-party accounts of the words and deeds of the "prophet". The "sira" is the oldest collection.
Islam can be described as:
a) "Muhammad" + "allah"
b) The imitation of "Muhammad" (even in place of Christ, which is antichrist thinking) in following the "Quran" (in place of Scripture)
c) A Babylonian-style domineering theocracy of conquest
Refutations against Islam:
1) Why does the original direction of prayer (the "qibla") face Petra instead of Mecca for so many of the oldest mosques?
2) Why was Muhammad's "sira" compiled almost 200 years after his death?
3) Why is there no mention of "Muhammad", "Mecca", "Islam" or "Muslim" in any of the caliph protocols until the time of Abd Al-Malik, the caliph of the Umayyad Empire?
Jaxson Thomas
Some good source info on Islam can be found on YouTube. Do a search on these people:
Jay Smith (he called into question the standard origins of Islam)
David Wood (exposes Islam)
Bill Warner (exposes the political side of Islam as directed against non-Muslims)
Michael Price
Some people here think David Wood is a meme but I think he makes some useful videos
Ayden Thomas
the apostolic fathers believed that Jesus was more than a mere man and that paul was a true apostle and they were martyred together in rome ie: islam was dead from the get go if we are to believe them that jesus and his apostles was islamic, ebonites don't count since they rejected paul.
William Gray
The Quran really speaks for itself