Tell me why I should believe

Orthodox Christian here struggling with faith.

Christianity began with a jewish disciple of John the Baptist named Jesus (Jesus of Nazareth) who was raised in a rural town in Galilee. He gained a sizable following preaching an apocalyptic message of the coming "kingdom of God" until he was executed by the Roman authorities. His followers claimed that he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven exalting him as the messiah and son of God. Oral traditions sprang forth concerning Jesus of Nazareth and many of these traditions were written down in anonymous documents called "Gospels" decades after his death. Over decades and then centuries, doctrines began to form about the nature of Jesus; these doctrines are not explicit in the New Testament, but they were argued to have been implied in the scriptures. First, the followers of Jesus believed he was the Christ, then the son of God, then of one essence (homoousios) with "God the Father" and "God the Holy Spirit," then fully God and fully man.

Tell me why this isn't all just a series of mere accidents of history and that out of all the other religions, Christianity is true. Don't try to convince me why I should believe based on "evidence" of the resurrection because you just can't; a miracle is definitionally impossible to prove. Tell me why I should have faith and devote my life to the Christian myth.

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youtu.be/oxFmkg5dcyk?list=PL9boiLqIabFgCMdmvZi6hqNfLXlUYG-tS&t=9
youtube.com/watch?v=k2gPyLxwDwg
celsus.blog/2012/12/18/48/
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meant to type "Jesus" but ok fine

wait what.

Y e s h u a

Drop out of college and pursue a trade or even just work retail, it will be much better for your mental health and you'll look back and laugh at all of this

We auto change that word to avoid judaizers pushing weird theories about the importance of names in Hebrew

If you're struggling with historicity, read/watch Case For Christ.
It's braindead normie tier but it worked on my mom, you should try it.

One can still prove that it happened.

Sorry, but no you can't. If you wan't to prove something in the past, you observe the evidence and deduce the most probable cause. A miracle is, by definition, the least probable cause.

You're trying to reason with faith. It sounds like your ego is getting in the way of God. You sound like you're already more than half way down the fedora trail. Repent of your arrogance and submit yourself to God. I'll pray for you.

youtu.be/oxFmkg5dcyk?list=PL9boiLqIabFgCMdmvZi6hqNfLXlUYG-tS&t=9

ok sweaty
His followers believed this truth to the end that they evangelized all corners of the world. We can find this in St. Thomas' willingness to die in a remote corner of the world due to his evangelization. For the resurrection there was no other explanation for the missing body other than the resurrection
itt post what theories you have, OP
These gospels were around during the time of the apostles, who were the eyewitnesses, and during the time of their disciples, such as St. Ignatius or St. Polycarp. If there was anything wrong, they would have stepped in using their authority.
we can get into a whole theological debate but you'll get the doctrine of the trinity by debating the Bible for over 4 centuries.
If President Trump died today, but was resurrected 3 days later, we would have proof he was dead and proof he became alive again.
That would be a provable miracle. I would put proofs like this, but I'm too lazy rn

by proofs I mean proofs of Jesus' resurrection

Says who?
Says who?

youtube.com/watch?v=k2gPyLxwDwg

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But see how foolish that turns out. You can't even discuss in an analytical manner. Also it's not an exclusively Hebraist usage but it its also used by Syriac communities. The Greek OT also translates it with the same word for Jesus, Jeshua in the KJV.
I'd personally prefer y e s h u a in historical contexts and Iesou for NT translations.

Yeshúa
jeʃuʕ

celsus.blog/2012/12/18/48/

Pardon the interruption, how exactly is it that you came to a point where your faith was bounded within finite historical statements about the historicity of the gospels? This is fairly common, but I don't think it's justified, we live in a complex world and it is very easy to be denied a home and end up in a spiritual exile. This can't be allowed, your sanity depends on it (especially if you're accustomed to thinking deeply, it seems like you are). Allow an user who has been there and done that to present an effortpost on the subject.

Yeah it's a part of traditional Christianity to have creedal statements and I believe they are still important, but the reason I came to a point where I somehow ended up a Christian is because I was a philosopher until I realized that philosophers don't practice what they preach (and thank God they don't, really). Faith is in my mind not a creed first, it is an action, that comes from the unity of mind (spirit rhetorically) and body.

We could sit here user and state with ease that the Bible is composed of several different strands of writing from different authors who've made a big mash of different oral stories, and that Jesus is a character synthesized out of a movement of various different Jesus' all of whom were fed up with the Pharisees and the Romans. Perhaps we could even say that the Resurrection was the result of credulity of simple people. We could be atheists in a flash, I still maintain that I don't believe anything, at least not in the sense of desperately clinging onto a thought-object like without it I would die.

But the Truth is that one must do and die, it is what we were born for, it was the penalty for eating the fruit of the garden, it was the penalty for evolving to be more than flatworms (which are immortal).

This is why I decided, sometime last year, that Hope was a great virtue, because there is precious little of it. We really can't expect God to do all the work, or any work at all, so we must have Faith in our God, that no matter how many Jesus's there were, they were right about something, and Hope in Heaven, because you won't find hope on Earth.

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Also note, being as accommodating as possible, not seriously advocating some heresy about many Jesus's. There is one Christ

Atheism is pride, user.

Your doubt of the gospels starts with your doubt of God. Fix that first.

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Tibba, Jesus wasn't a disciple of John the Baptist. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion…unless you were told (((lies))). Either way pic related OP

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Indeed, but we are their modern-day Babylonian captives. They are very capable of taking familiar stories and misunderstanding their morality to make a point and abuse us. We truly do live in a dark age similar to the Babylonian captivity or the reign of the Pharisees.

Not helping.

It's because he preached along with the baptisms which Jesus took part in so it wouldn't be too irrational to see Jesus as a follower or adherent in some sense just not like a student.

You want historical evidence, fine, i'll give you historical evidence.

Why Christianity is master race?
-watch ancient alien series and realise there is a higher being able to do great things (be it alien or spirit)

-watch alien intrusion (2018) and realise there is a link between aliens and fallen angels and that God of the Bible is reliable and can trust your soul into His hands

-Read more than a carpenter for extra historical arguments for Jesus' existence and ressurection

-Take the redpill and realise that every secret society works against Christianity. Read the Revelation carefully and understand that the signs of the end times really are here. Good movies to consider: Marching to Zion, Forces occultes. Books to consider: Henry Ford and the International jew, The protocols of the elders of zion.

-Music industry full of satanic symbolism. Yes, wearing horns and showing off the illuminati eye is satanic.

You best start believing in Bible prophecies, user… You're in one!

nope.

user, please respond to

Very curious to see what your "rationalism" fights back with

pity

How old are you exactly?

Answer: below the age of majority, he's started this thread and is refusing to engage with posters. I think this whole thing is a fib, indeed yet more reasons not to trust people/expect heaven to be much populated.

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...

Just go to r/atheism, you will find the answers you want there.

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Yes, but he has a point, you're decided somewhere along the road that your pride in your intelligence was worth more than listening carefully to everything you deny. That is the meaning why Jesus used to say "let all who have ears hear." Often the stiff necked arrogance of people causes them not to hear, even when spoken to. You haven't engaged with the better points here, you've cherrypicked the lowest fruits. Unless you do something about that in 2 posts I'm going to call you Zig Forums and leave your rotten bait alone forever.

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What points?

See

Please

Elaborate

meant for

Berg or spoiled brat? We will never know.

Well, I thought that would be obvious, you're not immortal user, so one must have Hope, that's why Hope is considered one of the theological virtues (i.e. higher virtues).

As to God doing any work, well I have two answers of one quite silly but which occured to me first so it is here presented first.

1) Supposing Christ really was the son of God and really did die so that we might know how to live, I'd say he can take a winnie the poohin holiday for a few thousand. XD

2) In all seriousness though, remember how I said that Faith was an action? It is an action of carrying a metaphorical cross. One might have heard "bear your cross" as a phrase your priest (you said ortho, so priest) always says a lot, almost to the point of banality, he's being quite serious. And this points to a central knowledge gap in Christianity that we have to make up for with the correct sacrifices (of carrying our crosses). Because at the end of the day, we don't KNOW WHY, we only really as Christians think WE KNOW WHAT TO DO. (Emphasis no yelling). I'm happy to say that over 2,000 years its not a half bad thesis that the secret of life is to live as Christ, we've created a fairly successful society because of it. We don't burn widows like the Hindus, we don't stone Adulteresses like Muslims, or Burn Witches (anymore) and we don't keep slaves, so really thank God we were fairly right about that little thesis called Christianity! The evidence suggests the world would be much darker had we been more than slightly wrong from time to time.

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I never understood why people try to have faith based on history and "evidence" of the supernatural instead of true logic applied to religion and the evidence of existence.
The mere fact reality itself is a thing is a miracle, there is no reason for anything to exist, yet not only does everything exists, but it does in gradation, meaning you can even know when it's good and bad, having the capacity to know how closer to perfection things are is the evidence of the objective existence of perfection, and that's just one way you can be sure of the reality of transcendence, metaphysics and even the supernatural (I take you are familiar with Aquina's 5 ways), so stop taking reality for granted, you should believe in Christianity because it's the only religion that fits reality perfectly, or is your mind so broken that disbelieving miracles makes you disavow 2000 years of objectively correct phylosophical moral doctrine?

There's a great poem about what awaits you in life by Tennyson, it's called "The Charge of the Light Brigade" about duty in the face of death. This story is about the 1854 Crimean War, but it might as well refer to any of life's grim finality as anyone will one day encounter it.

Unfortunately the death of the 600 at the Battle of Balaclava, October 25, 1854 was in fact a mistake borne of miscommunication. But they didn't wait to find out, but they are more immortal than us two will ever be, because they bore their crosses.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Why did Jesus have to come in flesh, you know?

Evidence is good. God likes evidences.

How have you decided on a denomination when you don't even have/understand faith?

I thought you were "struggling with faith"? If you're calling it a myth, it seems like you've already made up your mind and you're just here to troll with your low effort, one word replies.

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OP, I can't tell if you're trolling us or if this is a legitimate concern, but I'll bite because it speaks closely to what my thought process was when I was a lukewarm, backslidden Christian headed straight towards Atheism, which is where you'll most likely end up if things don't change soon enough on your end.

John 4:24 says that God is Spirit, and those what worship Him must worship in Spirit and in Truth. The failure to understand this verse combined with your doubts regarding Scripture is why cults like Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism, etc. flourish because people desire to seek the Truth but they need some sort of support or something to guide them there, so people seek external and worldly validation (whether it be "scholarly," or through some type of organization).

At the end of the day, you need to understand and believe that God is right there in front of you in the Spiritual realm. You need to believe deep in your heart, and with all you've got, seek God (Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit), and He will guide you. When I came back to Jesus Christ, I first believed in Jesus Christ and then I was convicted in my heart and through other means that God wanted me to read the Bible cover-to-cover. Contrary to what most think, that you simply become a Christian by reading the Bible, dunking yourself in water, etc.

Once you believe, God will speak to you in such a way that only you (and God) can understand. It takes a certain amount of faith, but I believe this is where you need to listen for that still, small voice, or maybe it will be that urgency in your gut that prompts you, or it could be via coincidence (in Hebrew vocabulary, there is no such a word for coincidence as God is in control of everything). Regardless, only you know that will be God speaking or communicating to you, but you need to make effort on your end to persistently seek God.

Why is it like this you may ask? It's because God requires us to have faith and faith is the substance of things hoped for but cannot be seen. God counts faith as righteousness, read in Genesis where God credited Abram's faith as righteousness. Jesus Christ said, blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe. OP, do you believe? What is Truth?

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if God had created perfect saints, instead of fallible humans , when they behaved correctly would they be actually good, or would they only do good because they were designed to? you see the point of our existence is our transcendence into sainthood, that's why we can't expect God to be some sort of cosmic nurse and avoid all your discomfort, because you are not here to be comfy, you are here to struggle your way into using your free will to get closer to God through objectively good fully concious choices, because there is no worth in a robot that does what you programmed him to do, but when a concious living creature does something good when there are no immediate palpable benefits to it and can very well choose not to, then you have something valuable.


To take the place of humanity in the divine standard of unvoidable punishment and make way for man to be saved and be cleansed from sin through eternal sacrifice, for there wasn't anything in the world that could cover for man's evil, but with Christ as the offering, men would always have the chance to make penitence.

You sound like a moron trying to imply I'm arguing for evidenceless faith when my entire post is telling you how there's plenty of evidence for the Christian faith, hell there's even plenty of evidence for the supernatural and miracles, but the fundamental concern here is that you are trying to delegitimize Christianity pretty much because you haven't seen someone not only come back to life 3 days after dying but also become immortal and rise to the heavens, I bet you really think you sound very smart with your braindead one liners.

Like it says in Romans 1:20—

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Slow down boy. Jesus' coming was also to stand as evidence. He could have just died for our sins without much of a fuss. The main purpose for His birth is as you state but He also came as proof that God is with us not only in a spiritual way.

I don't see why asking about historical evidence would be a problem. Actually it would solve a lot of uncertainties.

Miracles happen in other religions too, you know. Christianity unlike some religions can provide tangible evidence of the life and ressurection of Jesus.

Being concerned about history more than miracles is ok. This does not mean one should believe in Jesus historically but deny His miracles.

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Eh sounds to me like you're just looking for excuses to fall away. Remember this moment when you stand before the living God and try to make excuses for your arrogance.

Agreed. I'm smelling fedora false-flag.

if you believe before you die you get one (1) virgin in heaven
if you dont believe before you die you serve as an afterlife slave to one (1) chad as he takes the virgin eternally before you

Wrong board akhi

What are the St. Thomas Christians
Not all of them were iirc, like St. Lukes, who used eyewitnesses. The Gospels that are eyewitnesses say that they are in the gospel
we can see that these gospels are true if we test the testimony by using external sources. The facts in the gospels are pretty accurate if you use external sources.

If Jesus' resurrection is the most probable, then it probably is. The crucifixion was clearly witnessed.
the apostles went everywhere evangelizing. (((they))) would have produced a dead body if they wanted to shut down the Way.
these were elite soldiers we're talking about. There's no way some galilean fishermen could have beat them up. They were also seen in public, and since breaking the seal of the tomb meant death, they would have been killed by Rome herself
they didn't switch tombs that fast back then

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We've been dealing with these goons for a long time now. You'll know them by the term "historicity" since that's the buzzword they're pushing in the ecumenical seminaries at the moment.