I need an answer once and for all

I am a former Methodist turned Catholic. My only issue with the Church that I have yet to work out is the endless-stream of pedophillia inside the Church. All my life, I've been told that the Church consist of a large amount of pedo's who abuse children, but all other Catholics I have talked to either completely deny this, or admit that it happens but get angry when discussing it, leaving my issue of trusting the Church unresolved.

Just this past month, this happened:

Quit lying to me. Is this evidence that there never was a true Church, and it truly is salvation by faith alone? I have few enemies in life, but among these are child abusers. I do not want to be tricked into funding a secret pedophile organization. "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour."

tell me straight Zig Forums, what's the deal with the Church? What can I do to trust?

also, isaac, lind, and the rest of the mods, you better not hide or block this thread, you already stopped me from having this discussion in the discord a while ago

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Feed your kids, confirm them, and let your potential priests get married to godly potential presbyteras

Isn't the whole point of them not marrying is to be like Christ and be married to the Church (the Mystical Bride)?

"The report determined that, during the period from 1950 to 2002, a total of 10,667 individuals had made allegations of child sexual abuse. Of these, the dioceses had been able to identify 6,700 unique accusations against 4,392 clergy over that period in the USA, which is about 4% of all 109,694 ordained clergy i.e. priests or deacons or members of religious orders, active in the USA during the time covered by the study.[2] Roughly 4% of them were accused. However, of these 4392 accused, only 252 (5.7% of those accused or less than 0.1% of total clergy) were convicted. The number of alleged abuses increased in the 1960s, peaked in the 1970s, declined in the 1980s, and by the 1990s had returned to the levels of the 1950s."


Celibacy is a calling and the priesthood is a calling. Having both callings is a blessed thing, but assuming one because of the other leads to problems we see all over. Not to imply this is solely a Latin problem, but have you see some of theirs priests, they get creepy if they weren't already when they were ordained

So you think that the numbers pointed out above are ultimately due to sexual frustration? I know St. Paul speaks of marriage only for those who "need it" - for lack of better words, but is that all? Certainly celibacy itself won't fix this issue, nor does it rectify the collective issues that have accumulated up to this point.

I've got a lot of problems as it is, and I have a hard enough time trusting the Church as it is, the last thing I want to think about is the priest at my local parish can't be left alone with my children. That's just horrible, but according to this data, I've got a 1 in 50 chance of my kid getting screwed.

Ultimately, who knows. I just don't think forced celibacy for all priests has proven to be a good practice, and it's not traditionally necessary or even necessary in the eastern rites or Anglican convert exceptions, so I don't know why they keep pushing this over and over. I also don't want to blame it all on neglecting pedoconfirmation and pedocommunion, but I can't believe there is no relation at all

So what do we do? And am I supposed to just sit idly by while this stuff happens? What is the Vatican doing about all of this?

Also, I'm noticing there is a freaky amount of information about this particular topic from the year 2002 in particular, which is the same year the Spotlight journalism took off (that netflix made the movie on). I wouldn't doubt it if some of this was propaganda, but certainly not all of it.

What can we do? I want to leave the Catholic Church so badly but I'm cornered with fear, knowing if I don't get the proper sacraments I am doomed.

1 Timothy 4:1-5

As much as I might doubt the Latin church I also think they probably get way more bad publicity than they should. Find a parish that you can establish yourself at with a spiritual father you can trust with yourself and any children you have and work as you can locally, leave any more to your bishops unless you have some seriously specialized blessings

You should leave the Roman Church, but not because pedo-priests. You should seriously examine the theological claims of the Churches who are the actual players, basically just Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, and stick with whichever Church you believe holds the correct views and the most undisturbed succession through thick and thin

Every good catholic man who is unmarried is forced to give up all sex.

Any argument that clerical celibacy causes pedophilia is also an argument that incels on nofap will become pedos.

Just a thought.

I agree.

I would like to further add that I am speculating that for 1,700 years, since Constantinople, that the RCC has falsely assumed power and became one of the most powerful institutions in the world. The only reason I became Catholic was to be as close to the original Church as possible (Mt 16:18, & Pentecost), but now I'm not so sure.

JUST end it my dude, endless doubt

Nofap and incels largely want to find a virtuous wife. Big difference from an institution that commands certain members to not marry, and then places them in the company of young men. It's like dumping blood in the water and not expecting sharks to show up. Also,

The answer is Jesus Christ, not some man-made organization. Does the Bible not say we are to worship God in Spirit and in Truth? That said, nothing wrong with being part of the RCC, but that doesn't automatically mean you are part of the One True Church nor does it preclude you.

This is where my internal struggle lies. Either I need valid Sacraments from the Church, or the True Chuch is a spiritual body and does not consist of a real, living institution as in a parish or Rome. I don't want to take the chance of allowing my doubt to take over so I can live a comfier life because I was too afraid to brave the darkness, but at the same time I don't want to be entertaining a wolf in sheeps clothing because I am operating out of fear instead of love.


Are you arguing against clerical celibacy?

One day we will butcher all Catholics.(USER WAS WARNED FOR RULE 2)

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yes, thank you for your enlightening and very Christian post, you have successfully converted me back to Protestantism with your intellectual reply, I am now motivated to spill blood over allegations that you have so wonderfully proven

get a grip, Protestants

I'm not Protestant, I'm Orthodox. Your crimes are beyond counting, we will make you bleed until you've bled your last.


If you spill blood in the name of God, you will suffer. You need to go back and read the Gospels before you begin preaching.

Yes, this is why Catholics must suffer.

27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

I don't need your cherrypicking of Bible books.
And so on and so forth across the whole OT.

You're not digging anyone's grave but your own if you're going to purposely ignore the teachings of Christ in favor for the old way of things. You may as well just convert to judaism at this point. Repent; bloodlust is never okay.

You are so stupid. You don't even understand what Christ refers to. I've talked enough to you.

Obviously I'm not missing out on much because you didn't really talk to begin with.

"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

"He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death."

"Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man."

'But if he struck him down with an iron object, so that he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 'If he struck him down with a stone in the hand, by which he will die, and as a result he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 'Or if he struck him with a wooden object in the hand, by which he might die, and as a result he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death"

"A man who is laden with the guilt of human blood Will be a fugitive until death; let no one support him."

there is some cherry picking for you, I can keep going.


Citing out of context verses from the OT when it suits them is a typical protestant tactic, just saying.

This. Take the royal path, it's never too late.

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I would strongly suggest investing youself with Western Rite Orthodoxy. You would find yourself right at home.

Now open your Bible and read about all the sins committed by the '"Israelite'' priests and High Priests, whose institution was very certainly real, exclusive and founded by God.

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The latin Church is corrupt in this regard.
Again, it's not the first time, and we need reforms like St. Peter Damian's, that fought against this 1000 years ago.
I mean, even in the middle ages, monk-teachers and priests were not allowed alone with kids, as a safety measure.

The first part is true.
The second part is a Reformation meme.


He said, when not knowing that Catholic Priest is one of the least if not the least likely profession for pedophiles.
He said, not knowing that (((for some reason))) media will jump upon even the slightest allegation of Catholic clergy while ignoring cases in which there was no guilt found.
He said, not knowing that (((for some reason))) these sandals are almost all from decades ago and by (((pure coincidence))) after statute of limitations expired.

Woe to them! They perished in the rebellion of Korah

dude the link is right in the OP, that was sourced from last month

I'm so tired of this "never happened/happened long ago so forget about it", it's not like it's that far-fetched. Priest are still human. Judas was among the 12. Pretending like it's *all* propaganda without being able to prove that is, as much as I hate to say, unbelievable.

The whole point of me making this thread was to heal my mistrust for the Church; I'm not attacking it, but I REFUSE to be illogical about this.

Source on the not being alone with kids regulation?

Nofappers WILL become pedos.
I nofapped for a year and developed a crush on a 8 year old girl.
Now I tale libido-killing benzos so its ok tho.

So the Church created by God is an EBIL institution because the voluntary priests can't have orgies?

And if they wanted to break their vows, they would hire a prostitute or seduce a nun. Your retarded theories are as stupid as saying that if you place someone doing nofap in front of a child, they will rape him.



And i think i recall what happened to pedo priests in those times(don't know if i can find the source, though).

They got shipped off to a monastery, tied to something, and brutalized till they dreaded even thinking of it.
Extremely winnie the poohed up, but still.
Pedophilia has always been a scourge the Western Church had to fight against.

Sorry user, but that sounds to me like a personal problem, rather than something that can be universalized to all people attempting nofap.

Indeed. The normal response to failing celibacy would be to commit a relatively normal heterosexual sin. Similarly, if you're stuck in prison and you don't want to be celibate, the normal response would be to jerk off, not to rape your fellow inmates. Going prison gay is utterly absurd for the normal heterosexual male.

I get developing a crush on a pretty young girl but 8yo is a tad too much innit?

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It's kind of proven that when you put a lot of creatures of the same sex in a small space with little to do, weird-ass shit happens.
Homosexual intercourse, sudden aggressive behaviour, unexplainable murders, etc.
I don't really know why buy my theory is because you're driving them mad.
It's like how you can see homosexual behaviour with animals wayyy more in captivity than in nature, and why some animals suddenly show irregular habits (circle-walking, aggressive outbursts/tantrums, no hunger).

t.consumed loli crap for years
Right ? I can smell the hentai collection under your bed from here smh
You don't develop pedophilic thoughts and cravings just from not wanking you homo, you develop them because you're mentally ill - for whichever reason. It's a condition, not a feature of living chaste. The rest was explained ITT more than enough.


I mean how in the f'ing world does a grown man (provided this guy isn't just 11 y/o, which is very possible) develop a "crush" on an 8 y/o ? Disgusting. I'll pray for you, because bro you have issues.

Says who?

The church is not some specific sect. Having rules prohibiting marriage goes against scripture. And we're talking about marriage not orgies, you strawmanning pervert.

Or they abuse an altar boy. Let's not pretend this isn't a problem with your sect. The rest of your post is more strawmanning idiocy.

A man devoted completely to God is better as a priest than a married one.
If priestly celibacy wasn't a thing, the Church would've been smaller.

Yeah for a normal person, but pedophiles and sodomites (large overlap) oftentimes apply for jobs where they get to be around potential victims. Like I said, your church is pouring blood in the water and acting surprised when sharks show up.


Celibacy to focus on God is excellent, for those who can do it. But they shouldn't be leading flocks. They should be doing evangelism or studying in solitude.

oops, here's your link

It may surprise you to know that nobody is forced to be priest, retard. Nobody istalking about masturbation.

You have no authority to determine what goes or not against scripture. The people who can do that are the ones who compiled scripture in the first place. It amuses me how you try to use the words fedoras try to use to demonize religion, like sect etc.

Whoever wants marriage has the option to not to be a priest. It is that easy. Or they can leave priesthood. Or they can hire a prostitute. You are insane, and there is a couple of problems with your brain if you think that those who rape a child weren't intending to do so from the beginning. Maybe your dysfunctional brain is not able to understand that people don't suddenly become pedophiles. But I guess nothing is impossible for the absurd mind of the protestantism and his apostolic roleplaying fanfics.

Says I

Priests are married to the Church, like Christ.


The Church is both Holy and sinful. How can it not be sinful, if it is composed entirely of sinners shepherded by a sinner and it's been like this ever since St. Peter?
And how can it not be Holy, if it's the original Apostolic Church, the very same organization, about which Christ said "the gates of Hell shall not overcome it".
We, no matter the vocation or position, are all sinners, it can not be any other way. But that doesn't mean the Apostolic Succession was ever in any way broken or misplaced. The Church is Holy in that it's dogma and doctrine are correct and it has legitimate claim of being the original church left on earth by the Apostles, the very people about whom the Gospels speak in their specific persons as the ones Christ himself sent away to teach all nations, the same who accompanied him intimately in the last three years of his time as one of Us. These people founded an organization headed by - on Jesus' explicit request, order and command - a sinner who denied his master, Peter. This organization is alive and more or less well and it is the Roman Catholic Church. It is as much the original Church as the original British Monarchy is the British Monarchy. These guys made a club and this club survived, it's structure, lineage, wisdom, everything the Holy Tradition consists of, are True and Correct in the most profound way.

At the same time the people who kept this Tradition and Teaching intact were susceptible to sin. How could it be any other way?
If you and eleven other guys are trusted to keep an Idea soundly intact because it's important, and I mean very, very important, you won't leave its safety to the general public, suspended in culture. You make a society, a community, whose members you task with preserving your Incredibly Important Idea. Idea like literal miracles happening, witnessed by thousands of people who've experienced Our Lord's supernatural miracles and who now, after His Passion and Death are left in sadness, terror and anger. Or perhaps just apathy.
You see the Miracle-maker who taught you for three years - the man you believe to be the God of Abraham Incarnate in a human body - risen from the dead in a god-like, transcendent form, exactly as he foretold. He tells you personally to make sure the things he said are kept and you make winnie the pooh sure the things he said are kept.

And if not sinners, who else? A Church led not by us but by will-less Magical Automatons from the Sky, incapable of wrong? Would you believe one of these guys if they went up a pulpit and told you to not sin? And how would faith? Wouldn't the existence of a measurably faultless being be supernatural itself and thus render faith invalid? Complete and utter absurd.
And why not leaderless and structureless? That doesn't work too, people always attain positions of power, some because of their pride and greed, other's to serve, the overwhelming majority because of some combination of these two.

Sinfulness of priests and truthfulness of the Word are not at all mutually exclusive.

OP here thank you, that was a good reply, screencapped

Rampant clericalism. Get rid of the celibacy requirement (you KNOW what the scripture says about this) and repudiate the doctrine of supererogation.

Oh, and remember when Pope Francis said "Who am I to judge?" That was about a cleric accused of homosexual acts. In Argentina, about the bishops? "Calumny"? Again, protecting the hierarchy. The left, the right, all point to a careerist hierarchy as the source of the rot. The answers are in Scripture!

SEE this is the kind of dishonest revisionist hermeneutic that is so RAMPANT in Rome. Do you really think 1 Tim 3 meant some sort of hypothetical or spiritual children to the original recipients? Or are you retconning that to fit? Do you think own households in verse 5 meant the same thing as the Church IN THE SAME VERSE? Rome, turn back!

It's a continuing pain. Were that we all were better. God give me the strength to yell at my own flock in this way, I can think of some who would be edified by it.


But the main problem here is an implict blind defense:

I'm not Catholic, but it is common knowledge that an organization rots from the inside if it won't cast out those who damage it and gain a reputation for doing so with regularity. Because evil people expect safety in the Church and they receive it repeatedly, they will keep on reaping the same reward of scandal.

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out and cast if from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish and not that thy whole body be cast into hell."

I read a commentary on the gospel that the eye leadeth the body, just as a Bishop leadeth the body of the Church. An erring leader should be done away with is therefore the point.

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Incredible, you actually get it.

The fact that the leader who does the act is then protected and kept in the fold is all the proof anyone ever needed that it is a wicked organization. All else is ultimately distraction from that. You get a molestor who is simply relocated and everyone told to pretend nothing happened. Absolutely vile, and this is how you turn to defend it. I guess thats honestly what you would expect from a cult though.

I wonder what you would have said about the corpse trial. It's ok, the Church will be with us until the end.

This shouldn't surprise anyone considering it's California.

Thanks. That's some messed up stuff.

Catholics, you're better than this

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If you replace the word 'church' with 'denomination', then you're correct.
There is only one true Church, which is the body of Christ.

By grace through faith. You don't need to be part of a denomination to be saved.

If you're part of the RCC, then you have bigger things to worry about, because the pope (and who knows how many more high ranking people in the Vatican) are NWO shills and possibly satanists.

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