We're also having a Modalist problem within our IFB community too.
A few weeks ago and last week, another church that we used to have fellowship with decided to come to ours (we both do this every now and then, and not just us but other local IFB churches we're in fellowship with) and their pastor gave a sermon. He was saying some pretty odd stuff too like "the Father was on that cross for us" and "the Holy Spirit is an extension of Jesus." Anyway I guess this made the pastor at my church suspicious and I guess he did some of his own investigating because during the sermon on Sunday he said we have officially cut all ties with them and so have all the other IFB churches in the area for Modalism. But then I got a call later on saying another of our local churches is going with the one that everyone else cut ties with because apparently that church had a vote that Sunday between Trinitarianism and Modalism and they were in favor overwhelmingly of Modalism I heard. So now they joined the original church we cut ties with and so now we have two churches out of fellowship and there is only six of us total in the whole area where not a lot of other IFB's live.
What is happening? I'm starting to suspect that possibly what's going on in Steven Anderson's church/community is affecting ours because I know a lot of people in my own church, and some others from the other churches, who watch his content and no doubt probably heard about all the things that have been going on with his church. They probably watched Baker's and Kirchway's videos. This is really just me speculating but idk how else it could be because this is correlating with what is happening with Anderson's church.
Problems is is that when you have people lording it over others, it takes one bad egg to introduce a heresy like transubstantiation or worship of Mary and boom! it becomes a dogma just because the so called "central authority" said so for the sake of the "universal Church". Also, you begin relying on the so called "Church Fathers", fallible and sinful men who are in no way comparable to inspired and God breathed scripture. You basically becomes a shit house for the traditions of men.
Joshua Cooper
Its like you didn't even read my first comment also
Wyatt Scott
Instead of thinking that everyone in the past was some evil pagan idolater trying to distort the gospel, you should consider that maybe certain things were believed about Mary because they safeguarded against heretical beliefs about Christ.
Dylan Cooper
It's like you've been indoctrinated with the traditions of men.
Jordan Ward
Maybe instead of believing in the traditions of men you should go read your Bible and follow what's in it. The (((Church Fathers))) are not my authority. The King James Bible is my authority BECAUSE IT IS GOD BREATHED AND INSPIRED!
Brody Myers
Wow you got (((me))), I'm actually a pharisee pretending to be an Eastern Orthodox Christian If you're going to be some edgy IFB brainlet at least don't follow in your traditions of shitposting and pave your own way
Oliver Young
It's like you don't know who composed and gave you the Bible
Surely your denominition out of the dozens of thousands that are out there is the one holy catholic and apostolic church!
Actually its the multiple holy all around the world (but not catholic) church
Isaiah Ramirez
You're probably worse than a Pharisee tbh, worshiping all those icons and saints and Mary. You know what the Lord Jehovah says!? He says,
"I AM THE LORD THY GOD WHICH HAVE BROUGHT THEE OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, OUT OF THE HOUSE OF SLAVERY. THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. - Exodus 20:2-3
You know what he also says?
"YOU SHALL NOT MAKE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE" - Exodus 20:4
No we're not "catholic." We are the original Baptists! THIS IS WHAT GOD HAS ESTABLISHED! YOU ARE OF THE WORLD AND WE ARE NOT OF THE WORLD!
Noah Russell
A MEN BROTHER
Adrian Morris
If you cannot even conclude that Christ was God before, during, and after He was in Mary's womb, or you cannot understand clear typology such as Luke referencing the Ark of the Covenant when describing Jesus in Mary's womb, or you cannot even formulate consistent beliefs about the trinity, and are plagued with completely ahistorical and unbiblical ideas like the rapture, then what good is your holding up of the bible as your sole authority?
The biggest problem I have with you aggressive Protestants is not that you esteem the bible, it is that you are so bad at reading the bible. You read it like a 21st century American when it was clearly written for 1st century Jews and you prooftext like crazy to make points.
Jace Morales
Wow, do you say that God has sinned when he decided to become a man?
'Catholic' means universal
Kevin Rodriguez
The problem I have with you so called "apostolics" is that you read the Bible like 4th century B.C. Greek Pagans attempting to combine Christianity with Paganism.
Owen Perez
...
Aaron Robinson
How does that in anyway break the second commandment (which Catholics removed from their (((Catholic Bibles))) anyway). You're blaspheming against God who can do ANYTHING HE WANTS! JESUS CHRIST IS NOT AN IDOL! HOW DARE YOU IMPLY HE IS! HE IS LORD AND GOD OF THE WORLD!
The "true church" existed underground for centuries hiding from relentless persecution.
Yeah, and we're not that.
Luke Hall
Yes, if only we had a group of politically motivated people to cover up child sex rings and elect a homo sympathizing Communist to lead our church.
Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): “We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.”
Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned…”
Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to “…helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ’s sentence.” For this “heresy” Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council’s decree “Wycliffe’s bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River.”
Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.
You know what I'm just going to read my KJV and pray for my community. Good day.
James Hernandez
Or, you know, just like it has always been read and understood by its target audience. You think Luke 1:43 was a mistake and Luke just referenced the Ark being brought before David by mistake? Or Gabriel just called Mary "full of grace" for no reason? Or most magisterial reformers thought Mary was a perpetual virgin, but some dude in the 21st century knows better?
Carson Cook
Tyndale was not killed for translating the bible. That is so obviously not true.
Brody Moore
...
Samuel Foster
What
Austin Gomez
>(which Catholics removed from their (((Catholic Bibles))) anyway) This is like middleschool level apologetic, get with the program How about lie?
I can't tell if he's false flagging or actually retarded. Not all IFBs are retarded, but all denoms have their retards
Literally what are you talking about Most of my favorite stuff comes from before the edict of milan
Tyler Wright
Can we just not argue and figure out what's happening? Is there anything like this in any other IFB churches brothers? Have you experienced anything? I will pray and read my KJV. Good day.
Tyler Reed
He was killed for heresy.
Levi Torres
The reason I posted is that in all the other threads IFBs fecespost about how we care too much about our creeds and councils and not the Bible, but our creeds and councils are quotes with explanation of the Bible coming from a culture in which a theological debate was developing usually with a few significant works being made which we still have around. If Ignatius wasn't a new name to these people or Athanasius was recognized by them maybe they wouldn't keep getting wrapped up in these heresies
Juan Taylor
Obviously, it's because Constantine ruined Christianity with his pagan belief,
Chapter XV. 2497 —Bishops and Deacons; Christian Reproof. 1. Appoint, therefore, for yourselves, bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, men meek, and not lovers of money, 2498 and truthful and proved; for they also render to you the service 2499 of prophets and teachers. 2. Despise them not therefore, for they are your honoured ones, together with the prophets and teachers. 3. And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as ye have it in the Gospel; 2500 but to every one that acts amiss 2501 against another, let no one speak, nor let him hear aught from you until he repent. 4. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as ye have it in the Gospel of our Lord. 2502
They (the alleged popes. pre 317 ad) were bishops before the Edict of Milan and Constantine gave power to papacy so he can use it to control people.
Sebastian Fisher
It is going to keep happening because Baptist belief hinges on human freedom to interpret the bible. Take away the context of history, you are going to have all the same heresies we had to fight in the past come up again because misreadings of the bible take the same forms. You dont have to put up statues in your house, but recognising that Jesus was God while in Mary's womb is a good start. You dont have to disregard everything that a Catholic has ever believed just to be independent.
Joshua Russell
See
Charles Martin
The power of the papacy developed over hundreds of years with the Orthodox Church rejecting their later outlandish claims. The church is structures with bishops as the head of churches in their local area, appointed by a few representatives of the worlds bishops, continuing a succession of authority from the apostles. How these bishops interact is largely up to them without Scripture necessitating one or another choice, so the development of an important bishopric in Rome, a mojor city and the location of the martyrdom of Peter and Paul, is unsurprising. The monarchal episcopate though didn't need time to develop though as it was immediately present after the time of the apostles with St. Ignatius writing about it in his epistles.
wow meme arrows are fun
Evan Brown
Why believe things like this that are absolutely false? Constantine didnt create the Catholic church and Baptist successionism is not a real thing. Sorry. You can be a Protestant without just flat out lying about history. I dont think it is an indefensible position. Most of what annoys me about Protestants is lying about history.
If I remember correctly I've seen a Latin explain all that stuff contextually and it wasn't as bad as it seemed, but I don't care either way as that's at least two hundred years after the Latins schismed, it's not a surprise they did something stupid
whatever your denomination is I don't care really but how the winnie the pooh can you think voting on doctrine is a good idea
Angel Young
democracy, not even once
Parker Wood
It's "Yelling Guy". He likes to ruin threads by false-flagging as any denomination or cult, and starts typing in all caps with exclamation points. Last time he pretended to be JW, and I think he's pretended to be Mormon before.
Sad.
Liam Watson
Gentlemen, Gentlemen, There is a solution to the Modalism and Paganism that we are not seeing here.
That pic: Since when are Mormons even remotely Christian? I don't recall Jesus saying we get our own planet to rule and will become gods. Or that Jesus and the devil are brothers
Nolan Smith
Sacerdotalism came later, the church of God has always practiced Biblical baptism and rejected infant baptism or any other inversions. See Acts 8:37, Acts 2:41-42.
Thomas Lee
Catholics are conveniently historical revisionists.
Andrew Powell
I got this feeling you believe in the Trail of Blood meme.
Adam Cox
The implication is that every one after the first is heretical.
Michael Williams
the absolute state of orthocox, mormonism confirmed for true faith
>having a vote on what truth is There's the problem right there
No one who has the slightest education in exposition clings to modalism. We may not know what the Trinity is, how God as three persons works, but we know two contentious facts – One God; Three separate persons – that are co-existing truths. Trying to be smart and "resolve it" only leads to degrading one fact under the bootheel of the other.
IFB is no more immune to heresy than Catholicism. I do not understand why any of this comes as a surprise. What was it Christ said would come in the last days?
It was inevitable. When you tell everyone they can come up with their own personal interpretation, the most fundamental basics of true and apostolic Christianity come into question.
A stray herd with a hired shepherd will not last among the wolves.
Henry Myers
What has been happening for centuries: protestantism.
Kayden Brown
this always makes me laugh
Samuel Hall
...
Evan Ortiz
this might be a dumb question but whats the difference between saying "the holy spirit is an extension of jesus" and "the holy spirit proceeds from… the son"?
Cooper Jones
The heresy of translating the bible? or… was it that his translation was heretical.
Either was, sounds like dude got burnt for translating the bible.
Blake Evans
Toulouse and Tarragona were local councils that were convened to specifically deal with the albigensian cathars. These gnostics were producing bad translations that botched words to fit their doctrines. Imagine this: it would be like your church banning NWT because it's a bad translation that's crafted specifically to fit jehovah's witless doctrines.
utter lies. The wessex gospels were the first translation of new testament material into english. The old english hexateuch was the first translation of OT material into vernacular ever, not to mention into english.
Tyndale was targeted and allowed to be executed because he criticized henry VIII's multiple marriages.
Hudson Cruz
If you're referring to the Donation of Constantine, that's a known forgery.
There isn't really. That's why the Filioque is heresy.
Hudson Perry
Go away Mohamed. Nobody likes your solutions to anything.
