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The Eternal Prot
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In the Middle Age we had, in the west, a completely Catholic order.
Different Kingdoms, republics and minor principalities recognized two authorities above them: the Pope and the Emperor.
So, despite political divisions, Western Europe had supra-national authorities and acted as a united civilization (Christendom or Respublica Christiana).
This order was weakened by the fighting between the Pope and the Emperor, each one trying to prevail against the other. This led to a period of division with two or three popes/antipopes and to the fragmentation of the Empire.
Many major Kingdoms, such as Castille, France and England, declared themselves to be completely indipendent from the authority of the Empire.
The nail in the coffin of this order was indeed the protestant reformation: it prevented every possible unity in the HRE due to religious divisions, was used by England and others to break free also from the Pope and caused terrible wars of religion.
Since the wars of religions exhausted both parts it was agreed to accept freedom of religion for each prince and to make religious differences an invalid cause for war. Thus leading to nation power politics and expelling religion from state.
Did (((they))) start protestantism?
Are there ANY academics who have a clue left in the world?
Any institution or government that is not theocratic or monarchy is Godless tbh
Not a bad thing in an absolute sense, especially when the religious hierarchy becomes corrupt and deviant from its original purpose.
There is a highly religious, reformed Afrikaner enclave called "Orania" which seems to me, to be the most ideal society I've ever heard of.
This is truncation of context to prove a bias. Go one step further and investigate the causes of the Reformation.
>Government is secular contrary to him
M*rtin L*ther cut up the Bible because the kikes told him to.
Not only he turned to the synagogue of satan to violate the Bible but also got duped by them afterwards.
That's when he wrote "on the jews and their lies", when the lie was already told.
It is considered that the peak of the Christian age (as a defined sociocultural order) was reached in the 1500's. We have been in decadence since then. But, curiously what we understand today as a Renaissance was already working around 1450 or earlier.
In my opinion what we have here is the death of the european christian model of society. It was unable to give answers to many people sicken with the ecclesiastical dominion. They felt for the freedum meme, build your own church, reformation, etc. And so we are after another 500 years with the same problems but worse. Because now secularism is rampant and people are lost. All we have is money (Mammon) and science. But I will not deny that rationalism, (and personal freedom) has been fruitful. This is one of the reasons of the success of the Anglosphere.
You waste your time arguing for the devil's petty quarrels, and you waste my time. Jesus is lord, that's all that matters, take your guns off protestants and focus them on atheists, commies and the rest of the devils' handyman. The whole world is burning and you decide to poke fellow Christians in the Eye? You complain about the quarrels Christians had back then and yet you perpetuate them! Therefor become that which you hate in an age of secularism. I can't imagine any worse timing.
Some fanatical Catholics focus on the wrong enemy, I cannot imagine any worse timing then what they do today. How about this proposition: after most of the west acknowledges that Jesus is Lord, focus on petty divisions THEN, Not NOW. I'd much rather have a Catholic neighbor than an atheist one, but sometimes I think Catholics would not see much difference between me and the atheist. You guys spend far too much time deriding those whom admit Jesus is lord. You focus on a age-old scab when the medical patient is missing a leg whose wounds have turned gangrenous, oh but it's the scab that you address and not the gaping wounds.
Get rid of your commie pope and as a result you might actually make Catholicism appealing for us, focus on the progressives amidst your ranks and you might just win me over, what's not going to win me over is blaming me for all the ills facing modern society. You only reaffirm to me that you have no leadership or that your leadership has been compromised (which considering this Pope is quite likely).
Well, it's true.
After going to Jewish Scholars to throw out the "Apocrypha", Luther turned on them a few years later….without bringing back the apocrypha. Apparently, Jews are only liars when they don't do what you want.
Protestants have been the major force for secularization for centuries, when you leave the Church, you go to the State to enforce your moral-law.
Completely outrageous and anti-Catholic simplification of history. Yes, we're just mean old bad people, and the Reformation wasn't the beginning of the great falling away.
We will never appeal to Satan.
Please clean up that formatting, user. You'll blend in better. Welcome to Zig Forums, btw.
As far as the content of your post, you're ignoring all the legitimate reasons for the Reformation. The best Catholics today such as EMJ are in an undeclared, ideological schism with the hierarchy, but simply refuse to renounce their membership. The body of Christ is not limited to the original schismatic Catholics who abandoned Jerusalem and Antioch.
Actually (yes, I know … akchually blah blah blah), anyone who is accustom to writing up research papers or book reports or anything of the like will hit enter twice because of the general requirement to double space between paragraphs. It's not necessarily the sign of someone who frequents Reddit.
It could be the sign of someone who has been to, or is currently in, University.
Not a reasonable assumption. Reddit and imageboards both use BBCode-based webforms, which is significantly different from a word processor. If someone falls off of a bike, we presume they didn't think they were driving a car.
neither reddit nor imageboards are based on BBCode at all.
Reddit uses markdown, and 8ch uses markdown for people with autism.
BBCode is much more like HTML and is normally found on oldfag forums that are based on PHPBB, simplemachines forums, and similar platforms.
Wait, and this is news how?
Was this even controversial knowledge?
I thought this was a well known fact.
We all know that these heresies got more rampant because once someone gains some traction with justifiable complaints (abuse of indulgences by selling them, simony, badly educated clergy in general etc.) they tend to get too arrogant and go full heresiarch.
As for how the Reformation grew so fast, well it's a pretty nice deal; you instantly get into heaven AND you can confiscate all church lands?
The prince of Saxony couldn't resist.
Ah, see, I wouldn't know that because I don't use Reddit. How, exactly, are you such an expert, hmmmmm?
Same crap, different syntax. Oldfags like yours truly sloppily refer to all messageboard-oriented markup languages as "bbcode". The delineation from word processor formatting is clear.
I used to frequent reddit many, many years ago before it became literal sodom. Just as most of you did (and some still do, to your deserved shame).
The so-called "Catholic" church split from the original churches over far less than the complaints leveled by the Reformers. Also, you have to admit, protestantism keeps the Catholics accountable to the bible. I'd say they had a net benefit on the church, keeping it grounded. Without the Reformation, I doubt Catholics would read the bible at all.
most of this board and the associated discord community uses reddit, has incestuous relations with redditors through discord, and is closely related to /r/truechristian, /r/catholicism and /r/orthodoxchristianity, both in the subs directly and in the subs' discord community.
If anything, a lot of people here also use reddit to bitch at liberals on /r/christianity and in abominations like /r/openchristian.
Not only is there reddit spacing, but you can see pretty often people doing *this* instead of this here too. The christian online community pretty well centers around reddit, this board, and a bunch of oldfag style boards like catholic answers and such, so of course there's a lot of redditors on this board.
Having written an imageboard, I can agree with that. Implementing an inline syntax system like that would be about the same in the actual server side code.
They are different formats for the user, though. Just sayin'
prots believe in God more than cathlodox
>take advice from (((jews)))
Why are (((they))) behind everything but the Classical Catholic church?
I hate to say this, but I encounter more fallacies on Zig Forums than any place I've ever been on the internet. Y'all need Logic 101.
The entire West is going to shit, like it or not.
What was the sample size for each denomination?
Where did they live?
How often did they pray, read the scriptures, and go to church?
Oh wait, that doesn't matter, because reasons
There's no practical difference between secularism and godlessness. Secularism is publicly practiced godlessness, which leads to total godlessness. It's pernicious because it doesn't have to outright deny and disprove God's existence in order to create atheism, but instead simply insists that you act like He doesn't except in your own private space and time. Lex orandi lex credendi—over time (sometimes generations), as people act like God doesn't exist for all but an hour on Sunday, they eventually drop the vestigial practice of going to church and believing in God altogether. Really just look at the progressive decline in church attendance and professing Christians in any secular country.
Catholic - 7002
Orthodox - 186
Mainlain prot- 6083
Evangelical - 8593
Just looking at the website it says all 50 states If you click on the specific denomination on this link it will tell you the number by specific states
See Pic related
Overall the biggest issue is just the tiny Orthodox sample size.
Accuse me of being a redditor and don't even acknowledge my 7's? Sad!
BTW, this got released
Protestants blown out; Reformation confirmed as great falling away.
woops, link won't work
Click on PDF for the full research.
I've been posting on chans since 2004, make me stop posting this way.
"While the Reformation was a religious movement, we find that its unintended consequence was to promote economic secularization: a significant shift in the balance of power toward secular authorities, and a sharp and immediate reallocation of resources toward secular purposes."
" As indicators of the shifting bargain between secular and religious authorities, we ex-amine the expropriation of monasteries and wealth transfers from the Catholic Church to secular lords"
To quote E. Michael Jones and William Cobbett: "The Protestant Reformation was a looting operation."
Why lie? Ask EMJ if he's in schism, coward.
The traditional forums didn't (and don't) do formatting anything like Reddit. This includes how linebreaks are handled. Meanwhile imageboards use similar markup for italics and such as Reddit.
People used (and use) double spacing between paragraphs because it makes posts readable. Walls of text are hard to read. This is not to be confused with other uneducated or poorly educated people making every sentence its own paragraph. "Reddit spacing" is a D&C meme.
t. someone who has been posting on the Internet before imageboards were a thing
Wow. So not only:
1. The Protestant Reformation eliminated all the social services Catholic Churches provided; with no attempt -whatsoever- at replacing these vital services, they just made Palaces and court-houses!
2. The military complex of the time was not dismantled; but preserved for the use of secular lords
Even more damning:
Is the Reformation responsible for the decline of the West? Very possible.
Well, at least the early Prots tried:
but, they still became the State's dogs:
This is what happens when you abandon the Church and serve the State, there is no protection with a secular Lord/State, he will not abide your Christian charity.
not reallocated toward Protestant church purposes, but were retained by secular lords
Ah, so this is why Catholic Theology is so great :0
To what extent were the Catholic resources previously spent on things such as welfare/social provision?
Dunno, read the research.
Page 37-28 has a lot of historical episodes of Protestants taking direct control of the kingdom from Catholics; with disastrous results. Resources spent glorifying God were instead spent for mere man.
We can also see this degeneration in art. God > Man > Nature > Nothing; or as Chesterton would say “Art in the middle ages was ‘art for God’s sake’; art in the Renaissance was ‘art for man’s sake’; art in the 19th century was ‘art for art’s sake’; now art in the 20th century is ‘no art, for God’s sake.”
Have you come across any sections in it pertaining to that?
Was this and that other post meant for someone else?
I was just scanning through it posting interesting bits. As to the extent of Catholic social charity work, I have no clue; it is a claim the researchers made, and I assume they have evidence supporting the assertion, just look through it.
Meanwhile _/esuits are completely free of blame, of course, yet they're responsible for lead astray God's people from their foundations of the faith. Wew, people, wew.
And they still won't read it. Had to even invent a new canon too.
Wow, so the downfall of western civilization can be traced all the way back to unchristian abuses of the faith by priests and the pope? Unbelievable.
WEW, time for a big think.
You know that was created as part of the Counter-Reformation, right? You just proved my point.
There were plenty of translations in languages other than latin before the reformation. Seriously, this is such a bad argument, it's like you don't even have the internet or ever opened a history book in your entire life
It was the first complete Roman Catholic bible translated into English. On behalf of Reformed Christians the world over, you are welcome.
Did you even read the research? Let me quote it again for you.
"Evidence presented thus far supports a causal interpretation: territories and universities that would become Protestant exhibit no significant differences in human and physical capital investment trends prior to the Reformation. We observe no indication that these territories would have diverged had the Reformation not occurred."
They have legitimate research indicating the Reformation, not the Church, is to blame for the decline of the West. Get over it, it's done. We know who's responsible now.
What does this have to do with anything? Read the article.
English was not the lingua franca at the time, the need for an English Bible is not the same as it would be now.
Additionally, the printing press kicked in at the same time as the Reformation, almost a literal year-by-year launch at the same time. In fact, you cannot say whether or not the Church WOULDN'T "translate it for the common man", because there was no printing press prior to the reformation.
On behalf of 2,000 years of Catholics the world over, you are welcome.
Historical fanfiction to justify the removal of the deuterocanonical books.
The reason why protestantism was adopted was literally the opposite of this.
Holy Roman princes choosing money over God because in protestantism you don't need monks or any external clergy to begin with so they just confiscated all the church lands.
The catholic Church wrote the first bible in the vernacular and further translations were prohibited because of heresies.
You forgot to mention how >95% of the population until the 19th century could literally nor read and that there were a lot more languages commonly used as today.
There was just no demand for a bible in vernacular, and those who could read could most of the time also read Latin since it was the lingua franca uniting all the intellectuals in a time when the Mediterrenean region had 40-50 languages.
People like Wycliffe and Tyndale translated the Bible and the Church got upset at them for doing so. The only reason the Douay Rheims version was commissioned because the Reformation had happened and the Church wanted to convert the English back to Catholicism and had to do so in English. There's no reason to believe that the Church had any desire to have the Bible to be translated into the vernacular even if the advent of the printing press had happened sooner.
Wycliff and Tyndale translated the Bible and corrupted Scripture to support their false doctrine, a sin worthy of hell according to Scripture itself.
But in any case, why not take this to another thread?
Protestantism is the great falling away, who can dispute it?
I guess that's why the Douay-Rheims version relies heavily Tyndale for its English text.
who cares? quit trying to change the topic.
This is some next level revisionism.
And where did I say that?
Protestants are ridiculous, read the research and look at the damage the falling away caused. We must be in the end-times.
Poland, Hungary, Austria and Italy?
You implied that it would have been used by the Catholic Church to undermine its own authority, which is pretty hilarious.