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US Army's New SMG
Logan Murphy
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Noah Walker
It looks cool. Unbelievably compact and small, probably will do just fine for the purposes it was intended for.
Begs the question though; What for? Low usage weapons like SMGs are barely needed today, who is it for? This is a small lot, of course, but that still doesn't explain it. Just having them for the sake of having them? Tank crews are the only position where I could see this being actively used and they carry M4s, no? This seems like something you'd give to secret service, not the Army.
Ryder Nelson
"The service is buying hundreds of these weapons to arm personal security details guarding VIPs in high-risk environments."
Nathaniel Scott
But this appears to be for the army, isn't the Secret Service an unrelated organ?
Connor Rogers
Why is the magwell a hotdog in a hallway? This isn't some bubba'd AR-9, they have no excuse.
Ryan Nguyen
They're neat range toys.
They're under the department of homeland security.
Its has an angle on the inside if I recall, i.e you can panic a mag in.
Nathaniel Stewart
It's going to be an overpriced, overbuilt ghetto blaster. If a submachine gun does not cost less than $300 it should be ignored
Jace Long
Vehicle crews have been in a very difficult spot ever since the M3A1 grease gun was retired at a time when the P90 was looking to readily replace it without any G*rman ass blastedness getting in the way. Some crews like Nicholas "if they aren't a Christian sect, fire for effect" Morran's Barely Legal for example, got Three M4s, an M16 with underslung M203, mossberg 500, a fucking M249 and then their side arms of M9s all just for a single M1A1. Meanwhile Bradly crews were given a handful of M231 port firing weapons for their now sealed with the exception of the back ramp firing ports if they were lucky. There are countless pictures of less fortunate crews who were given jack and shit for dismounted combat and chose to make due with Iraqi MP5 and even PPSH42 clones. With any luck this might bring some normalcy back into it.
Chase Lopez
yes, but the army also supplies security details for senators, and other representatives abroad. the marines usually guard the president if a military escort is needed.
I suspect this is from army black-ops, uber-supermen MOS.
Easton Clark
I just assumed everyone carried a M4 or M16, and prior to that, an M16.
the M4 is basically a rifle capable SMG. kind of like the AK74u.
Kevin Brooks
Forgive me if I am wrong but the lower does look like an AR lower. I suspect this is done much like the highpoint carbine does and uses the military's existing parts that can be readily swapped- the army might only be actually ordering the uppers.
Elijah Bailey
Lower can be switched to use common glock magazines.
Jonathan Nguyen
Why do they keep making the same thing?
Sebastian Cooper
Oliver Gray
Everyone got an M3A1 until shortly after the gulf war. Yes it would make sense for everyone to just get M4s now, but it was never an offical thing so it varied from unit to unit. Like I said, hopefully it will bring order to chaos.
William Cooper
No, the lower is the standard one from their SMG - APC9, which this gun is clearly a version of.
en.wikipedia.org
As for all this fluff, B&T is a pretty good weapon manufacturer and makes pretty high quality firearms but this gun, despite probably a good finish, is not that well designed. As i said, the gun seems to be a slightly shortened version of the APC9 with a different stock and without a vertical grip, as well as slightly shorter mags with weird pads on their bottom. The original gun's weight is 2.5kg with the aimpoint that comes with it so this might be ~
Jeremiah Garcia
Because it sells well, even better than plastic striker fired pistols.
Alexander Flores
Wow the army actual making smart weapon choices holy fuck
Chase Sanders
so now that we are standardise on our firearm plat form, why don't they just hand out lowers/bolts and let the units build them like legos or something with after market parts?
Charles Williams
Helo crews, vessel crews, MP's, security personnel, ect…
The Army provides passive security for representatives when they're traveling in areas the Army is operating, otherwise security for Senators/Congressmen falls to whatever agency maintains security at the locale they're visiting (i.e. embassy would be CSS and Marines, Naval base with be Navy, ect…) otherwise a Senator/Congressmen has no security detail outside of DC, unless they're within the direct line-of-succession. The President's Marine escort is a different situation altogether, the Marines provide airlift support and White House security, but the Secret Service maintains Executive Protection at all times, while coordinating with other agencies and departments.
Nothing like putting a rifle rack in a tank, only to never actually put a rifle within a crews TO&E.
Ryan Cooper
So when is (((SIG))) going to demand a retrial?
Blake Cox
I've been searching for a bit on this, thank you Strelok!
Carson Nguyen
I thought SIG MPX already won?
Dylan Robinson
it is so fucking ugly holy shit
Angel Gomez
What is this meme of crypto-9mm AR with a 2 inch barrel? Why not something like an MP9 which is not only more compact, but has a much longer barrel?
Thomas Peterson
They've said it: security details.
No.
B+T has 20 employees, they're a suppressor company for the Swiss police (and supply basically everyone in Europe), they make guns as a side job.
They can make 350 to a 1000 guns in a couple of years sure but that's about it.
They just cannot fulfill an order for US army crew weapons, also it's illegal per Swiss law to export military equipment (policing equipment is ok, hence why it's probably for MP security or something. "APC" means Advanced Police Carbine IIRC).
If they were to get a big military order they would have to partner with an exterior firm like SIG (Swiss) & Sauer (German) to actually make the guns. Knowing B+T it would most likely be Steyr (Austria).
Xavier Hughes
Oh I get it now, it's gimmick is that it's ultra modular with lots of fancy accessories, perfect for an army that thinks more technology is a substitute for skill and experience
Jace Gomez
Would honestly make a lot of sense. Give each boot a few thousand to build the rifle with the only rule being (must be in 5.56) would be interesting to see how units design rifles around their job. Units may begin identifying with common setups and stylizing their pieces.
Noah Reyes
...
Jaxon Parker
Go back to cuckchan with your armchair retardation.
Jace Turner
Roughly $7,000 a piece for a 9mm submachine gun.
Sebastian Wood
It would still be a ripoff at a tenth that cost.
I expected nothing better.
Anthony Harris
Retarded requirements
Retarded gun
Big Mistake
Xavier Morgan
I could see how it could get out of hand just have the O-3 approve purchases, any if the solder wants anything not within that budget, just ask O-3 or he can buy it himself, I know a lot of civies who would love to give these guys simple stupid stuff like this, I also think the USO has a program for this.
Brandon Williams
Like 2500 USD in leafland for one.
Ayden Gonzalez
When will armalitefags fuck off?
Brody Taylor
also
Anthony Rodriguez
its a cost thing, the US military literally chose the AR platform so logistics could simply replace parts more easily and there was less "variation" in specialist parts that didn't need to be specialized.
this dates back to the 1960s when Kennedy's administration went ham and saved a lot of military over-site form have role dedicated firearms to having a single platform with role dedicated parts.
most of small arms development like the beloved rail system came from this line of thought, I'm certain Brittan has its own version but this has and is working well for the US military. the AR platform was specifically made by stoner with this in mind hence its minimalist design.
Isaac Price
half of the threads on Zig Forums are just people complaining about how much money the US needlessly spends.
Nicholas Richardson
If anything a modernized grease gun would be nice, not saying the military wouldn't fuck that up too though.
Ian Ward
The AR is shit and a military failure, death to intermediate infidels
Robert Butler
Grayson Young
I take your dedicated grease gun and raise you an AR15 platform AR18 upper with a 9mm chamber and bolt and a mag-well mount for whatever mag you have available.
Owen Green
Sorry intermediots, this is battle rifle gang territory
Jeremiah Adams
done a battle rifle.
Aaron Watson
AHAHAHAHA holy shit it looks uglier than Hi-Points. Your army should just invest in pic related. Everyone will be disoriented thinking your ZOGbots are just Bethesda NPCs, that's better than tacticool advantage. You shouldn't let the spaghetti-armed FBI cuck you out of using 10mm.
Money spent almost as well as Israeli defense aid.
Elijah Wright
meh, IMO the best layout for SMG/PDW is the Uzi or "pistol on 'roids" with mag in the grip. Its basically the bull-pup SMG, but unlike a bull-pup rifle, it doesn't seem fraught with balance and other ergometric issues, or bad trigger.
Only reason I'd want mag ahead of trigger would be if its quad-stack.
Jonathan Cruz
Henry Walker
trommelmag mk2000
Kevin Anderson
Except nothing on the APC9 is interchangeable with the AR-15 it just looks like one.
Gabriel Green
JUST
Dominic Martin
looks like a retarded ar pistol
Anthony Diaz
Why would you use a piston upper on a direct blowback bolt? You fucking stupid? Also magwell mounts are gay. Just get a dedicated lower that takes glawk or colt mags.
Isaiah Baker
Cohen would like a word
Logan James
What about? The holocaust?
Spoiler for lewd
Blake Williams
why 9mm and not 5.7?
Adrian Edwards
Because 5.7 is shit, especially from short barrels. 9mm with hot loads can get superior performance against both soft and armoured targets, for far less cost of all parts.
Thomas Lee
Needle round that had unsatisfactory performance on soft targets, even when pushing through armor/hard cover.
9x19 is available in large quantities while already being in use and is "good enough" against soft targets.
Brody Cook
Of course they can be. Just like you can make a straight-blowback HMG if you want to, but that doesn't mean you should.
Austin Allen
Because the US army hasn't adopted 5.7mm
Jason Green
Gee, I wonder why…
Asher Russell
It's a bad cartridge, but not that bad.
Levi Gray
Out of a barrel shorter than a Five-seven's and being shot at ranges longer than concealed carry shootings? It'll be worthless.
Blake Cruz
Even if it isn't "that bad" in terms of performance, it's still stupid to consider from a logistical and operational standpoint. 5.7 is a solution looking for a problem.
Charles Cook
I guess the Army choose to keep the ergometrics, in other words their existing TRAINING and muscle memory, of the AR, rather than retrain on a new optimized dedicated SMG platform.
Not the worse idea they've ever had. I'm pretty sure the "operator" will always be the weakest link in effectively using any gun, especially a SMG.
Oliver Gonzalez
MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND
The interesting thing is that if you want to see how a non fucked up army gun looks like Isreal always adopts the best things while US and NATO gets the short end because kikes will not allow the same. (not always the case. They too get attached to "their" designs)
Galil for example is a perfected Kalashnikov.
Uzi is a mac10 but better
Micro uzi is mac11 but better
The only problem with mac/uzi is its hunger for bullets. Obviously the kikes thought of this also and it can be converted to half of it's cycle speed.
Jacob Reyes
Why an SMG instead of an SBR?
Anthony Davis
No, nigger.
No, you stupid nigger, the MAC-10 was literally designed because the Uzi was too expensive and not reliable enough. The MAC-10 is the better gun for a military, and the actions aren't even similar.
Except the Micro Uzi is just a shitty cut-down fucking toy and the MAC-11 isn't even in the same caliber as the 10. It's a different gun altogether.
NO YOU UNEDUCATED REDDIT SPACING NIGGER
Jaxon Reed
This is not an excuse to disqualify better weapon designs.
They could've just asked any manufacturer to slap it on for them. It's not like an engineering prodigy to accomplish post production. Especially when they get a whole army to sell for.
Luke Phillips
There'd be a 9/11 every week if US didn't support the only democracy in the middle east™ (^:
Ryder Reyes
Doesn't seem like a bad gun, but we've had good 9mm submachineguns since WWI. There's no reason to keep reinventing the wheel. What does this do the MP5 doesn't?
Adrian Price
I was just thinking that. The Israelis claimed to have great success with their UZI's, claiming the hand over hand method of reloading to be incredibly effective. My guess is the MP9 doesn't have magazine compatibility with the APC9, and that's what it boiled down to.
Camden Collins
it doesn't come with H&K's cost?
Zachary Roberts
Jesus Christus, KuK poster. Wat are you doing? This takes the prize for most retared shitpost on this whole board.
Everything you said was aggressively wrong.
Go home and think about your actions, you absolute retard.
The Galil was so shit not even the yids would use it.
Juan Williams
They use the same mags iirc
Jason Young
Why no bullpup?
Jack Hill
Because bullpups are a meme if the magazine is small enough to fit into the grip
Cameron Reyes
yeah, so why not make it just like a longer pistol with a grip on the front?
l tell you this will be the design of the future
Lucas Thomas
Kurwa :DD
Jaxon Walker
Is this related to the DOTR
Samuel Cook
This post gave me cancer.
Juan Ward
lol gay gun
Jackson Brooks
We're paying $2.5 million for 350 guns. Or maybe that's for 1000 I'm a bit confused. That's between 2500-7000 each depending on how the math should be done. Not much cheaper than what the government pays for an MP5, something like $2-2.5k. The MP5 was just an example anyways, the point I'm making is there are hundreds of good, existing designs for 9mm subguns and paying that 2500 for any of them is absolutely retarded when the government is paying under $700 each for an M4.
Juan Morales
Gypsy nigger that shit's from Sweden.
Justin Watson
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
Leo Lopez
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
Joseph Wood
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES