Europoor Buying His First Raifu

Sup Zig Forums.
FInally got round to getting a firearms permit and would like you gents' thoughts on first acquisitions.

No prior experience with funz save for lurking this forum and bingeing hickok45 videos.

I was planning to go for a .22lr Walther P22 (300 Eu), but given that I can't afford to buy too many of these things because of financial constraints (make good $ for a europoor but saving for gradschool) I thought maybe I'd be better off getting a more fun calibre straight away.
I always planned to get a bolt-action rifle also and thought a Mosin-Nagant would be nice since it's not too expensive (400-450 Eu where I live. Just about twice what it is in the US lol) and the 7.62x54R isn't too expensive unlike some other rifle calibres where I live, also you guys seem to talk them up a lot.

Guns we're allowed to own where I live: Basically anything you can own in the US save for snub-nosed revolvers and hollow point rounds. Lots of cheap and cheerful Cugir and Norinco stuff going around.

Things I intend to do with them: Range shooting. Not allowed to use them for anything else or anywhere else.

Budget:

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One can't really see you around here too much. Are you having such good fun laws?

Relative to Europe, we have very good gun laws. Restrictive by American standards but in terms of shit we can own, very liberal.
Reasons you don't see much of us here:

We're a tiny country of less than half a million people.

We don't have much of a gun culture in general.
(A lady I mentioned I was getitng into shooting to was surprised horrified guns were even legalin Malta, lots of people legitimately do not know you're allowed to own guns)

Most people into shooting are older people so aren't on the chanz much.

What I mean by very liberal:
Basically anything you can own in the US and even some shit you can't. Namely Norinco.

You're allowed to own full-auto (but not to fire it) up to and including light and heavy machine guns provided they were manufactured 1945 or earlier, if you sign up for a Collector's License.

.22LR isn't really a good pistol cartridge for a variety of reasons.
1) rimfire has some safety problems with being stacked in a box magazine
2) low gas pressure can cause issues with gas operated firearms
3) low projectile mass causes issues with recoil operated firearms
Pistols are also not the best option for starters in general. The shorter barrel makes aiming more difficult and is a massive safety hazard.
If you want to stick to .22LR, get a rifle. If you need a firearm for personal protection while outside: a 9x19 autoloading pistol is going to be more than enough.
Whatever you do: spend a lot of time at the range handling the gun at first. Get used to how it feels, how to draw, aim and shoot properly. Get used to operating the safety and how to handle your own firearm. Get some muscle memory of how to load, unload, and flip on safety as soon as you stop aiming, and flip it off as soon as you start again. There is nothing worse than shooting yourself in the foot because you were too retarded to get used to your gun. Actually there are a lot worse places to shoot yourself, but you get my point.

Also: probably QTDDTOTT. This is now the international firearms laws thread.

Not since the the fudds found out about them a few years ago. $400 is typical for a mosin in most parts of the us.
Considering you can't use it anywhere but a range, a .22lr rifle is your best bet. Inexpensive, cheap to feed, and easy to get gud with before you move onto something larger if you so choose. If skeet shooting is a thing near you, a break action shotgun is also another good option.

do NOT get the Walther 22. I was told by Bass Pro counter man "please don't, all that happens is we get pissed customers".

Glock19 gen3 is considered by many to be perfect all around pistol. Add fixed night sites and done.

Puma 1873 22lr.
Same size and weight as Colt Army.

maybe a 22lr in AR-15 or AK-47 pattern. That will build skills for when SHTF and you are off-island and need to use real gun. probably also work 8/10 to scare people into thinking you have a real gun if needed.

I remember hearing that shooting birds at some time of year was very popular in Malta and I had a vague idea that your gun laws were good by yurrupeean standards but I had no idea of the specifics until recently.
Is there some cultural or historical element that you think made Malta relatively tolerant of gun ownership.

If you CAN find a nugget that's not raped go for it but almost any other budget bolt gun would be more practical assuming you can put a glass on it. Many bolt guns come in combo deals but atleast in burger bucks they're usually about $400-600. A shotgun would be a good all around choice but ammo cost is what will constrict you since shells tend to be a bit on the expensive side depending on the load (slugs usually being most costly since they're more commonly found as hunting loads).
Something like a ruger 10/22, savage 94, or marlin 60, are pretty solid choices since as you know the ammo is cheap. Better yet is these guns are usually cheaper than the P22 while also being a lot more reliable and practical. Personally I'd go with the marlin since you won't need to buy extra mags and it has the largest capacity.
I'm not certain what other guns you have available in the euro market but if you really are poor fagging then maybe turk shit is something to look at assuming you don't mind being a nigger lover


I have a savage mark 2 which is a 22 bolt gun that I find very fun and reliable, it was cheap as shit to boot. If not the savage then check CZ rifles though they're usually a bit more pricey but definitely have solid quality going for them

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its sad tb h

yeah, I got a Mauser for less than half of that

If you plan to have a .22 to reduce training costs, you get a Kadet version of the CZ you want to be your regular gun, that way as long as you don't drill precision you can shoot .22 and it's the same gun.
They don't make 75 kadet anymore I think, so they're not on CZ catalog but there are still enough around the EU that you can still get them.

If they have carry law in Malta you should be able to source a P-07 kadet and a P-07 in .40 S&W (or 9mm) for example without any issues and that shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg (around €1000 total).

Don't bother with a moison. Not only should you never pay more than 80 bucks for a rusty boat paddle, it will also teach you bad shooting habits from the bad trigger and punishing recoil. Its not an optimal first gun even if you could go back in time and get one for the correct price.


#1. As long as you aren't throwing loaded mags off of buildings I don't think you are going to have to worry about the primers getting crimps while in the magazine.
#2 & #3 I would like for you to come up with a single instance of a recoil or gas operated .22lr because they simply don't exist. They are all blow back operated as blow back functions perfectly fine in .22lr and is also the cheapest way to have an auto loading firearm function. I do agree that its not smart to get a handgun first, but these gripes about .22lr are total fuddlore.


The Walther 22 is a gun for people that aren't into guns. So yeah if you care enough to post here then you aren't in its target audience.


The CZ Kadet is significantly more expensive than a CZ-75 with a drop in .22lr barrel and slide because they stopped making the Kadet when they realized they can just sell a .22 barrel and slide kit. Just get a CZ-75 in 9mm and a .22lr kit for cheap plinking.

AR with 22 conversion.

Bolt action gun in .223/5.56. Make sure it comes with iron sights so that you can just buy it and shoot it.

reports were that it was VERY picky about ammo. guy said it "shot OK" if fed two of the most expensive specific types of 22lr.

Hmmm. I guess living on a small island in the middle of the sea has its advantages. Do you knights have any Zig Forums-worthy stories (aside from that one occasion you BTFOd Turks)?

No. In Europe something like a .22 conversion kit is considered a full gun legislation-wise, so you have to do the paperwork, it counts as a full firearm (if there is a number limitations), etc…
The result of this is that conversion kits are extremely unpopular and the sole to sell them is to actually put them into frames, possibly at a loss, which can even result in aberrations with .22 conversion costing less than the kits alone.

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Everyone has BTFOd T*rks in their history. Turkey is like the China of the near east. They keep losing wars and getting invaded, and yet they continue to exist for some reason and actually managed to grow some empires out of the corpses of their predecessors.
Greeks, Kurds, Russians, Persians, Arabs, Hungarians, Romanians, Italians, Romans, Spaniards, Frenchbros, ISIS. Even Poland did it. BTFOing T*rks is not difficult.

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I can tell you about that one time I almost impregnated an albanian girl

True enough, but winning against an army 4-6 times the size of yours is still not something to be ashamed of.

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Nice mobile-post, faggot.

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Whats wrong with mobile-posting?

Additionally due to how the primer is set up in a rimfire cartridge like .22LR, the reliability of it is shotty at best. Paul Harrell breaks it down at the beginning and end of the his video, but basically .22LR is suitable small-game/plinking round, but I wouldn't trust my life on the reliability of one.
With that said, I was gifted a P22. They're alright, I can't shoot straight out of it although that could just be my horrible aim, but I haven't had that many malfunctions out of it. If you want a .22 handgun just get a Ruger Mark instead.

Smartphones allow an enemy to track you.
Smartphones require loads of energy to do jobs that other, simpler tools can do just as well.
Smartphones will fail in rain, light cold or mild heat.
What good reason does a strelok have to post on the move anways? Want to give away your position by posting your location? Can't hold back until you are back home to post more? Want to divert your own attention from your surroundings to a tiny screen?
If you are in range of your PC and using a smartphone to post, then what the fuck is wrong with you?
Obtain AUX extension cord for headphones, USB extension cord for KB&M, and a beamer to project your screen on the ceiling above your bed.

Paying denbts is a preferrable alternative

Would probably be a problem if I would be in a middle of a war or something…
These are all true, but
Maybe I wasn't in proximity of my PC?!
I'm too much of a poorfag for that.

10 m AUX extension cord: £5.05
2x 10 m USB extension cord: 2x £9.25 = £18,50
Tiny projector: £56.09
Total: £79,64
All prices for amazon UK without shipping. You will get them cheaper elsewhere. Get the projector used from somewhere. Never be too lazy to get properly comfy.

Or if some group of people was monitoring posters on this board because of glowing reasons.
>…
Why is everybody using the ellipsis character all of a sudden? I am all for using unicode the way it was intended to be used and bringing back old and useful characters, but what happened that everyone is using it now?
Why would you be posting then? What the fuck strelok! Focus on your surroundings!

Have you considering either keeping that to yourself or at the very least talking about it on boards like >>>/zoo/

OK story time is non negotiable.

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Pretty sure the burgs would need a pulmonary trying to get in or out

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What about home defense?

And I thought south Koreans were cool.

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Close enough, yeah?

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We're all in concrete or metal boxes all day here
Also nogunz faggotz is erryone

I could never understand urbanfaggots. 5 days of living in a concrete box makes me almost sick, how could you spend an entire lifetime in a city?

Wouldn't know you were even sick to begin with.

What the hell this is so lame

Don’t remind me

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You're supposed to use Raid to kill roaches, not bombs.

Urbanites need to be gassed, they are literally everything wrong with the world.

Jailcell.

If youve served inna army its like barracks but alone in one room. You hear others but you dont want to. You see others but you dont want to.
That need to unwind is never fully satiated.

Even from the mountains you can hear the cars and the trails are freckled with people.

You have to get close to DMZ or a legit malaria zone to be free.

Least its not sardine packed like Japan, even in Seoul on Saturday isnt too bad, just smelly of kimchi (that fermented chili paste n' cabbage)

We dont want to do it, we have to do it.

Burgers forget that they have urban areas.
Its different. We dont have….the same people, let alone same culture.

And no, its not because nogunz. Its because NK and we all are service veterans.

You probably still have a few rular settlments in SK, don't you? Did you ever think about moving there? Ilive in a small town with no more than 3 thousand people. If it wouldn't be for the g*psies it would be one of the simple best place to live. I have space in my garden to keep rabbits, chickens and my dog and my grandfather has a small plot of land in which I'll probably do my homesteading when I'll have the money and the time.

????
???????????
I'll bypass those things and answer your question:
Shop for what works for you. Look for a range where you can try several guns so you can get a feel of what you really like. Since you're not conceal carrying, I imagine it doesn't really matter what you buy as long as it's fun to shoot I guess. If you're not using it for self defense, caliber probably doesn't mean a whole lot either. Just whatever is fun to shoot. Definitely try something out at a range though. Don't just buy without at least trying something out that is relative to what you want. (If you want a 9mm handgun, try a few 9mm handguns). Look for a range that has a set fee for trying as many guns as you want.

Why.

Don't buy a mosin they're typically well used, shoddily put together, have a worse action and vary widely in condition. They make sense when they're $50 - 200 and that is being generous. The best mosin to buy would be a high grade Finnish mosin or an original Soviet designated marksman variant. The Finnish ones are of much higher quality and the Soviet designated marksman variants were specifically made and selected for accuracy and then supplied with an additional scope. The issue with the aforementioned variants is that they are much rarer than a regular mosin, typically not found in high grade condition and cost multiple times what a regular mosin does. A typical surplus mosin will shoot 2 - 6 moa. While I am sure for a several hundred dollars more you can buy a Remington 700, CZ or Savage that will shoot between .5 moa to 1.5 moa with good ammo.

If you want commie surplus get a Russian SKS. They were mass produced and then quickly succeeded by the AK47. Once this happened they were covered in cosmoline and placed into containers. Some of these SKSs were then exported as weapons aid to Soviet allies while others remained in containers and have never been used. An SKS can be viewed as the Soviet alternative to the American M14. They are accurate enough 2 - 4 moa, they are reliable, heavy, shoot cheap/plentiful ammo and cheap. I don't know what they cost in Malta, but here they are 250 - 300 Canadian Rupees. Before you buy it try to inspect the bore to make sure the rifling is still in good shape.


If you just want the pistol for range shooting 22lr is fine. A Makarov or TT33 could also be fun, reliable and cheap. As to 9mm there are a plethora of 9mm striker fired pistols and most of them are fine and functional. It is hard to go wrong

I would suggest buying something quality rather than buying two super cheap and garbage options. It is better to have one functional and quality firearm that you can keep for decades than two pieces of junk. So if you can't find anything good with your budget (assuming you want to still purchase two firearms) than just purchase one and save for the other later.