How do I distinguish sinful lust from innocent appreciation of female beauty? Intense lust is easy to recognize since it comes with a desire to posses, to consume and sexualize someone who is not yours. But what about appreciating the female form in itself, for it's charm and beauty; not to posses or consume or sexualize…But like seeing a beautiful painting or exotic car. Can healthy, straight men be blamed for this? Is it a slippery slope?
What is lust?
This question is closely related to the other, more common question "what is porn?" I'm afraid I don't have much of an answer, you're asking me to identify the subjective element which transforms the image of woman into the sin of lust in the eye of the beholder.
Remember from the Sermon on the Mount, the sins first happen within the mind, wrath precedes murder for instance. I think that this is as far as Jesus really wanted to go with his teaching, because he would have to start addressing philosophical problems when he was focused on experiential concerns instead.
tl;dr judge yourself
From my understanding, if you dont want to pooh it, then its not lust. And I guess desire to hug or snuggle them isnt lust either.
Generally one of the prime reason one shouldnt have lustful thoughts is that it dehumanizes the women/men transforming them into mere objects of sexual desire, so goes against "love thy neighbor".
Yes but self deception is easy
1 Tim 5:1-2
Any way you'd treat your sister is how you should treat young women you aren't married to.
True, but there is no other real criteria.
There are people who can view either naked people artwork of naked people like Renaissance paintings and statues, ancient works, or more recent example, anime fanservice and not get lustful thoughts but just like the beauty, or on the otherhand, one can get those just from viewing exposed skin like muds who didn't saw women not wearing a bag on 24/7. It, at the end, depends on a individual.
Getting a potential bride would prove difficult with that mindset. You'd be proposing to your sister.
Thats not what he meant. They should be dear to you and dont dehumanize them with lewd thoughts
To the lustful it is said (De Vera Relig. iii [Written by St. Augustine]): "He that soweth in the flesh, of the flesh shall reap corruption." Now the sowing of the flesh refers to venereal pleasures. Therefore these belong to lust.
As Isidore says (Etym. x), "a lustful man is one who is debauched with pleasures." Now venereal pleasures above all debauch a man's mind. Therefore lust is especially concerned with such like pleasures.
Is Augustine kosher for Eastern Orthodox?
For the most part, yes. For others, not really.
Don't do it lad.
I did the same thing and next thing I know I'm rubbing it, after 2 months of nofap.
You're lying to yourself that you're just looking at cute girls and that there's nothing wrong with "appreciating" female beauty.
You don't, you slowly feed your lust. Don't look at women because they look good, that's lust.
Doesn't seem like a good way to be in the world, also very impractical.
And it screams of personal weakness, if you can't even look at the opposite sex kindly without wanting to consume them.
Can't you read?
Now read the rest of the sentence.
If you look at someone to "enjoy their beauty", it's simply lusting after them.
Would you stare at some random woman in public? Then why are you doing it online?
I stare at cars and lions and stars because they are beautiful, why not women?
Yes, specially when looking for a mate. I do it less now that I have a gf.
This is one of the most bizarre interpretation that I have ever seen. If you cant admire beauty of a women, without sexual fantasies, you're better off in saudi arabia or some durkastan where every women is obligated to wear a trash bag.
Don't mind me, just admiring women ;^)
I think that you wanted to visit another board, mr. strawman, here, let me aid you and direct you to it
Augustine traditionally is one of the most respected saints of the Church prior to the schism and therefore should be afterwords as well. He has some differences in his thought from how Eastern Orthodox thought has solidified, but the only reason he gets so much thrown at him is because how influential he is, many other saints were wrong about much more than he was.
sure is near occasion of sin in here
I appreciate modest art of women but I don't feel the urge to have sex with them.
Physical women, however I do have impure thoughts often. I think that's the difference.
Look at pic related, their forms are very beautiful but it is not sexually impure. It might be easier to explain myself with the feelings you have towards it. That's how I feel about an icon of Maria, for example.
What's the point of staring at beautiful women you're not married to?
I struggle against masturbation, and every time I fall to this despicable sin I first lie to myself saying "hey, I'll just appreciate the beauty of those ladies". Next, I start to think "wow the female body is the prettiest thing ever" and start to look at semi-lewd images. Next thing I now, I'm lusting at images of nude women. You know where this is heading.
Remember, Satan is the father of all lies. He'll try his best to convince you that staring at bodies is okay when it's really the gateway to lust.
How will you find a woman to marry that way? Closing your eyes when you see them? Making them all wear a bedsheet like in Islam?
Hell, how does this even relate to masturbation even? The actual sin is when you actually covet a woman who's someone else's wife. That line of thought you have will make you single forever, and might be even be an offense to the Lord because it would retroactively make marriage nigh-impossible.
I didn't say it was a sin, but appreciating attractive bodies is certainly a gateway to sin.
Uh, I do not copy. How is looking at random beautiful women in the streets and worse, "appreciating beauty" in pictures of women you most likely will never meet, supposed to help you find a wife?
Besides, a righteous soul is more important in a potential wife than her physical attractiveness. A healthy soul often comes with a healthy body, but the reverse is not necessarily true at all.
These attractive bodies were made so because God made it so and said that it was good. There's nothing bad in appreciating it and if you have an urge to fap at every glance of a cute women… I don't know, as that other user said, good luck finding a fiancée.
I identify the line between admiring the beauty and lust as following: Beauty - I look at the whole body. Especially the face. And I think "wow, a pretty girl". If it ends here I don't think it's lust. If I look at girl - primarily at her lower parts - and start having thoughts about having sex with her then it's lust.
Now, before nofap it was a commonplace for me to look at a girl and think about sex. Even though I did not know her, even though I knew she was a hoe and I would not want her to be my wife I thought about it. After no fap it shifted and most of my lustful thoughts come when I see a girl I would not mind marrying. In fact mostly the girls I fall in love with. It's not only about the flesh so it's difficult to describe. Nevertheless it's still lust. I'm able to enjoy their beauty without thoughts of sleping with them but as I say…I often fail. We're all sinners.
Furthermore: The lustful thoughts are presented to your head by devil. It depend on you whether you entertain that thought or not. If you just ignore it, they will go away and it wasn't a sin.
If you are at all questioning if what you're doing is a sin, don't do it. Why not err on the side of safety?
Why do what might be wrong when there's tons of stuff you could be putting your time into like evangelizing and studying the bible that you know is right?
That's a bunch of bull.
Like "being attracted to her mind".
Weird. I can look at OPs pics just fine, feel no lust at all, yet I can tell the girl is cute and attractive.