Spiritual War and it in the Modern World

This is a thread to discuss the spiritual side of war, war as a spiritual path.
I know a little about this subject, so to kickstart discussion I will post Evola's take on the value of war in the four ages. If I get anything wrong or I don't enter in enough detail please explain further or correct me.

In the Golden Age, war is seen as a path towards transcendance, a way to reach the divine, it is seen as a positive. It is waged for such reasons on top of material ones. Similar to the Jihad of muslim thought. Honestly this stage is the least I know of so if someone can explain it better please do so. Tying in to this, I remember Evola explaining how through aproaching death, or other extreme conditions (though only in a specific way) one can reach Transcendental Realism, which I really can't explain either.

In the Silver Age, war is degraded from spiritual to more material concerns. It is fueled by loyalty to the King, or to the Nation, and such things. It may retain in this stage a semblance of spirituality.

In the Bronze Age, it has fallen down to defending the population of the state (only), to bring prosperity to it, and is seen as a tragedy, a "necesary evil", and while serving is still a honor, many would see it as a negative and to be avoided (iirc from this stems the implementation of compulsion in it, where in past ages, while compulsion still existed, the view on it was very different). Still, it remains within a nation and still retains some sort of loyalty to something, though the loyalty has shifted to a more mundane thing.

In the Iron Age, Evola predicted the complete abandonment of the idea of nation and it centering on purely economic matters. He gave the example of the communist revolution being such a war, though it has turned out that the iron war didn't manifest in such a way. While it did exist for a while as the communist revolution, a much better example would be the complete mechanization of war, removing Man from it, together with the waging of them for economic reasons (e.g. USA and Oil Wars). War shifted from being for the prosperity of the people to the stable existance of the economic system, or for the interests of corporate magnates.

All of this is accompanied by the constant devaluation and degeneration of military institutions (a modern example would be the forcing of women into the structure).

The use of "Age" might be confusing. There isn't a sharp boundarie between the ages, but as a constant existance (though periods can be roughly spearated), rather a "state" than a period of time. It being so, one can find events of one Age in a time where there is other, in the shape of renmants of a previous age -the crusades very much had a spiritual part to them- or of "pioneers" of a coming one -the communist revolution, of Iron, which happened on the Bronze Age, and, argueably, the Fascists/NS, which could be seen as a remnant of the gold age or a pioneer of the coming one-.
Another point is that War having one aspect doesn't bar it from having a lower one too, as such, Golden War has a national, an economic, and a material angle. (I'm not really sure about this though, how does fighting for the Race or for the Nation tie into this? Perhaps there is a spiritual component to such that I'm not aware of)

Now given this, it becomes obvious that one cannot come to War as a Path in modern, mainstream institutions -all of them being bronze or iron-. One can either follow it individually inside one of these organizations, or forming or joining of a sort of "traditionalist warband".

This is only one aspect of spiritual war though, so as not to give the thread tunnel vision.
While it would be nice to see the Murder/k/ube discussed in this topic, I would prefer it to be aproached seriously so the thread doesn't become shitposting.

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So religion thread?

Religion thread.

no you retard
did you even read the post?

Phoneposting
In the golden age, the age when Brahmins, poets and philosophers are kings, war is used to approximate ennoblement and godhood. You go into battle, where you're likely to suffer and die, in an act of asceticism vis a vis transcending the needs and wants of your flesh and indicating your will above your flesh, and in an act of devotion vis a vis transcending your own interests in pursuit of the higher, thus becoming a mask of that higher in battle.

The silver age of warrior kings has poets and priests in the service of warriors through justifying their right to rule by art and myth. Common warriors are no longer warrior saints, but nobles who fight as proof of vassal loyalty to their liege.

The bronze age of merchant kings is where we are at, fighting for Israel and the moneyed elite.

The kingless iron age will see us fight for family and tribe, for personal gain and nothing above.

Bear in mind that spenglerian cycle while accurate, should not be enshrined into common consciousness. It makes people passive, like all of the people sitting on their ass waiting for shtf rather than organizing or killing villagers in Minecraft. We must create a culture which considers it's natural state eternal, and sees enthropic forces like our longnosed friends as transgressive, and responds with violence.

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Oh I thought it's about the literal spiritual war that is going right now, not the "spiritual" aspect of warfare.

I disagree on some things, but thanks for clarifying the golden age.

As I see it, the cycle either resets or we die out. Such considerations make it so that one can't be passive.

I have talked about this in other threads. There are those that are cowards and wait for shtf as an excuse not to do anything. For the genuine though, there aren't any ways for them to organize. I'm of the opinion that the System can't be overthrown in it's current state, that a crisis -e.g. a recession- must be used in order to bring it down, i.e. destabilize it while it's in crisis. I don't think we can do anything -maybe going lone wolf to "heighten the contradictions" and so- beyond organizing and preparing, though it's of vital importance to do so. Also, the USA has to fall first.
In my opinion, the only real viable way to organize is through the internet, as finding a man who shares the worldview, and also is a man of action and not just a larper, without the internet, that is, only in meatspace, is imposible.
Ironmarch proved a good way to organize such revolutionary groups. The structure they promoted was the best aproach, and AWD had much potential, though they got fucked before anything of real worth could come out. Really sad that they got subverted.
Also, I think that such organizations could be the "traditional warband", or better said "Order" (such as knightly orders) that I say is needed in the OP.

Why would the ruling order bunker up somewhere, and sell to both sides. While the face of the government would capitulate at best or get stunned at worst eventually they'd reorganize and just the real threat bleed dry while also getting funding from them.

Please give me an historical example of each of the ages, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Iron. Like when and where was the last Gold age?

I mean crisis as in 29 crack and destabilize as in leave the infrastructure unusable, something like a collapse.
I think you also understimate how central the US is for the System.
Though if such doesn't work I just don't see any other way out, might aswell go out in a blaze.

It's not the US, it's the entire command that runs the world with their underground bunkers, safe zones, loyal fingers, and strong telecommunications. I doubt that the elites haven't planned for any sort of populace uprising. I'm not sure about Europe's scenario but the US would be hard to topple especially for the center of the system.

Also if stronger and smarter men couldn't stop this decay (WW2) what makes you think we can even with our current knowledge and tenacity, if blazes of glory is all we can look forward then we're also products of soulless and cancerous world where the only thing we can improve/gratify is our individual selves.

Keep in mind that as I said, the Ages are more akin to states (in the sense that it is used in "mental state") than periods of time, so various can coexist, though periods can roughly be defined, societies go through this.

Golden
Greece
Rome from kingdom to early empire
Brahmi India (I don't know the proper name)
Some medieval states (iirc Evola gave the HRE as an example of an echo of the golden age)
Argueably for some period the Russian Empire
Argueably for some period the Bizantine empire

Silver
Feudal Europe, e.g. England, Germany, or France

Bronze
European Republics
Most American Countries

Iron
Communist Revolution in Russia

Most of those occur in succession, though many overlap.


I explained that so a complete collapse, as in, a blackout or such. The collapse and nothing else can truly kill the System.

The only other way I see is just wait and keep yourself alive until you die, or go lonewolf and get jailed or die a Hero. Though I have a gut feeling that the system will collapse on itself or enter a big crisis in at most twenty years.

Have you read Siege?

On one hand, yes. It's not like you can just belly up to the bar and ask "Hey man, you wanna secure the existence of our people and a future for white children?"
On the other hand, meatspace collaboration requires meatspace proximity. If the interaction between those who share both values and convictions is limited to shitposting on anime imageboards, what can be accomplished?


In twenty years the white man will be a minority in every western country. If it takes that long, it might already be too late.

In the 90s there was a Time magazine cover page about the face of America 20 years from now and it was a Hispanic women digitally compiled from multiple headshots, if nothing happens by the mid 2020s at the latest then it's game over.

It is entirely amusing that progressive fags actually think that this is the way of a future without conflict.
Do they even know whaddafuck happens when Hispanic and Nigger groups have a go at each other whether in prison, school or in gang wars?
Even in higher institutions there is still favoritism.
Similarly everywhere else in the Western World.
Pakis vs Indians, Kurds vs Turks etc.

It will just become Rwanda again, with darker niggers killing the less dark niggers (or vice versa).

Kind of unrelated but was it Evola who took the ideas of traditionalism from Guénon or the other way around? Is it really true that Guénon converted to islam and that Evola was a friend to Codreanu, only to later critisize both national socialism and fascism later on?

Get with the times grampa!

Best spiritual warfare is esoteric biowarfare.

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White enclaves fighting as one worth a hundred times their shitskin equivalents. It's not number Whites have to be afraid of, it's losing their cohesion.

We already have

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Evola came after Guénon, though they were contemporaries.

Yes. Read his biography or at least hia wiki article. He did so as he believed there were no schools capable of initiation in the west, and that Islam was closest to the western way of life (in contrast with hinduism).

Evola criticized Fascism "from the right", right not in the modern sense of economic liberal but what right would be if you understood fascism as rightwing. The pic explains it somewhere.

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I said pls no shitposting yet you posted that

Lurk Moar, my white friend.

We've already lost our cohesion. Over half of us actively want to exterminate the white race entirely and will fight anyone who doesn't. Most of the rest doesn't care about race at all, and as such will be exterminated without resistance. Of the rest after THAT, there are those of us who even have guns who take the (((libertarian))) approach of "as long as they don't cross onto my property I won't do a damn thing ha ha wow there sure are a lot of niggers, spics, dune coons, and slants in my neighborhood gee I wonder what happened to my old neighbors and what's that smell." Finally, everyone else–everyone who actually knows about race, the active genocide of whites, and the inevitability of open racial conflict as the number of whites dwindles–EVERYONE, every last one of us… refuses to fight proactively. We buy, we prep, we wait… for a collapse. We know what "a collapse" is and what that means. But that will literally never happen.

Europe, for example, will never rise up and throw off its jewish puppet government, nor will it ever deport any nonwhites from any of its nations. Why? Because the occupying slave golem army of the United States will put down any European nation that asserts its sovereignty in any form, much less racial. And the US military will never be removed from Europe (say, to fight racial conflict at home), because the United States is–and will remain for the next century at least–a net food exporter. There will always be bread. There will always be (((circuses))). There won't be a sudden war to collapse the West. There won't be a series of events building to a crescendo, a la the Balkans. There won't be a revolt, a la Rhodesia. There will be… South Africa. Slow, inexorable, minuscule changes, day after day. A few more whites get slaughtered. A few more guns get grabbed. It's only a handful at a time, so no one fights back. We see it in the US already. Europe's mostly disarmed. I won't even bother speaking of Oceania.

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It is clearly shitposting. You could have posted about the topic in a serious way. Stop posting with such attitude please.


I think you understimate how apathetic the masses are. Those ideologues aren't a majority and a big part aren't doing it actively. The majority is apathetic.

With our current numbers we can't do anything but that, and I don't think that we can increase our numbers by that much either.

I'm unsure. I can post some articles which gather data and derive a range of time where it will happen. I think it will be at least a crisis.

I somewhat agree with the sentiment.

That's why you learn chemistry niggers, good luck regulating everyday items.

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That was always the intent, for me at least, as funs are banned here.

I could've sworn I saw one of you spearchuckers posting that you had a revolver or something like that once. Full ban?

The problem with going lone wolf a la Brenton Tarrant is that is carries with it a heck of an opportunity cost; such action typically precludes the opportunity for future endeavors. How can you ensure that any one action is the single most productive use of your life?
I do not fear death as much as I fear needlessly wasting my one chance.

If you don't consider waiting for a license, then doing a physical test, then doing a psychological test, then waiting some more and then sending some more papers somewhere else for the intents (which are not akin to reality in any way), then doing the dinosaur as in pic related, as a gun ban, then no they're not banned. Which lead to people to fall down onto more creative ideas.

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Spiritualism is just technologically impaired shitposting.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=qyN5tNYhfSg
Sorry for tablet posting. Can't embed.

I cannot source this at this junction, but take for an example the British Isles, thanks to the acid attacks many basic chemical items are strictly regulated and controlled there presently, things like NaOH at certain concentrations etc ad infinitum. There was this home chemist forum which thousands of posts on this topic, of people lamenting having to get countless permits and even starting small businesses with the appropriate licenses to run hobbyist chemistry setups.

My point being even such chemicals will be banned and i say, that the knowledge required for such things will eventually become much harder to access officially or unofficially. It's entirely possible for me to presume a categorical ban on some areas of hard sciences even on university chemistry PHD level. Nobody needs to know about gun cotton, that is literally a WMD, that is what they will say.

This. You can't even buy 99% medical alcohol over the counter anymore in nu Europe.
It is literally a cattle pen. Soon they will ban BBQ things and force you to use some kind of nu-coal, I would wager.

Democracy is for subhumans.

Democracy is for small, tightly knit communities that don't have any room for outsiders and whose every member has a strong sense of duty.a post-apocalyptic town would likely be a democracy, and switch to a more authoritarian system when they decide to expand.
we live in a republicanism masquerading as (((democracy))) in overpopulated countries where division is sown artificially through media, preventing societal cohesion

Isn't he that "smart atheist science man"?

Yes. Ironically he could have been the founder of the 4th Reich's ideological substrate if he wasn't a hypocritical bootlicker of the Academic left-lining status-quo.

Pretty much 90% of the intelligentsia are bootlickers to the left so thats hardly a surprise. Those who are not usually keep their mouth shut because they either afraid of losing their living or because they are huge autists.

Democracy even then is a subpar system. Historically such types of comunities had an autocratic system, i.e. chiefdom and such. At most you would have an elected king, but in such cases the voting right was limited to free men or to noble men.

Was Spengler fond of Hegel? In terms of Historcism?

Information Age War.
Technological Age War.
Memetic Age War.
Post-Memetic Age War.


Nightmare scenario. Nothing could be worse.
But it will happen. And nothing will save us.

I don't think we see eye to eye on what "small" meant.
I meant 5 clay houses built in relatively unbombed piece of a wasteland, then again in those conditions a single leader would emerge and work even better.

Small numbers would only make the inequality of skill and merit between the hierarchy's grades more apparent. Democracy is never good and but can deceivingly look viable in huge numbers of jaded and disenfranchised apolitical cattle.

I've come to the theory that the state (in it's role of king, who controls some part of life, in the form of e.g. laws, not necessarily a boureocratic state) or hierarchy, is human nature, and every time you have a human group it'll have a state/hierarchy even if in vestigial form. At first the line between society and state is blurry (e.g. tribal chiefs or patriarchs) but later the division becomes more formal (e.g. kings). It's also always compulsory, for example in the early example of a patriarch, someone who goes against it might be expelled from the group or witheld from the group's resources (e.g. disinherit them).

This thread doesn't have enough of Spengler's ideas, so here is one more: state is the invention of the bourgeoisie. But to explain this we have to add an other ideas from other people. The first one is that every "primitive" and feudal society has three classes (or castes, or parts, or divisions): the aristocracy, the warriors, and the common folk (this might include servants and slaves). Aristocrats rule, warriors fight and maintain order, and the folk works. It doesn't matter if we speak about African apes, Siberian tribesmen, conquering Aryans, or the Frankish Empire, it's all the same, because this is how intertribal human groups work. You have the ruling tribe(s) of the aristocracy; the tribes of the folk (mostly in a one tribe-one village basis) ; and the warriors who are usually a rather mixed group from various tribes (that might include wanderers or even bands of mercenaries).
Now, if such a society is stable enough to start building towns and trade and commerce, then in those towns the first seeds of the bourgeoisie will appear. Merchants and artisans who exist outside of the feudal society. An other simple secret is that people go to the towns to die. You see, even if we ignore the higher mortality rates that come from the lack of hygiene, townsfolk simply breed less. Towns are maintained by the population surplus of villages, so they are places for unnecessary people; small islands for outsiders in those feudal societies. Instead of seeking higher status in that society they are preoccupied with chasing money, because that's an easy way to decide if a goldsmith is better or worse than a silktrader.
Centuries go by, and the towns are slowly turning into cities, and the citizens are now living in a world of their own. Outside of their towns it's still a world of nobles and peasants, and it's utterly alien to them. So they want to transform it into their own image, but they don't have the means to dethrone a king. Still, the nobles now have various pencil pushers who assist them. And that's when the state is invented: just claim that the king is merely the head of a bureaucratic system, and then you are free to ask why he is the one heading it. Of course, that bureaucratic system is what they call the state.
On the tribal level it's simpler but also more complicated. Basically study the social life of various apes, and you will see how human tribes can function. There are natural leaders, there are small alliances, but it's not a formalized system. Or just think back to the years you've spent in the school system, and how your class had its small cliques and how the words of some of your classmates had a lot more weight than others.

...

>tfw you were a social outcast all through your school years, being buried into studying history, politics, religion and playing vidya
>mfw I was the bourgeoisie all along
Would explain why I went on to learning a "humane" subject in uni.
Self-inflicted sage for blogposting

I bet you'd also twitch if you read the words ethical socialism.

I'm the same, and I have to say that ours is the burden of the monk. You see, Spengler used many words where few would have been better: Religion is a system of cause-and-effect that dominates one's mind. Most of those pages he he filled with his thoughts about religion can be summed up with that single sentence. Most people are simply not intelligent enough to develop even a rudamentary system of cause-and-effect, therefore they are led by their raw instincts and rely on others to fill their heads with ideas about how the world works. If you are the kind of man who spends more time thinking silently than interacting with others, then you are bound to be an outcast. It's simply because you can't be social enough for most people. Read Thus spoke Zarathustra if you haven't done so before. Próbál meg a Helikontól (vagy a Szenzártól) azt a kiadást beszerezni amelyikhez Hévizo Ottó írta az utószót. A Libriben azt árulják.

How is this Spengler's idea?

I think you use state to refer to the liberal (classical liberal) state of beoureoucraetism. I use "state" in a more general way that can refer to kings and the modern state and various other structures of authority and hierarchy on which society develops around. I really can't give a formal definition of my use though.
What you say about the castes of society reminds me of the four castes of the traditional school. It's important to remember that through the ages you see many vestiges of other ones aswell.
I gather you agree with what I said don't you?
Have you read on the concept of " the Organic State"?

...

They fucking regulated fertilizer in the (((first world))) long ago, dumbshit.

What do you think it is? The 18th century?

I am willing to bet that most of us imageboard lurkers are like that.

lol if you autistic faggots believe war is honorable, then do this for me. roll around the pile of corpses, bask in the dried blood and sniff the smell of the corpses basking in the noon ridden sky. all of you will puke your guts out.

I wonder who's behind this post…

Hey buddy, the oven's two blocks down.

Sounds great, shall I assume you volunteer to be the first of many, many, (many) in the corpse pile?

Its honorless you degenerate retards.Then again you faggots are possessed by furfags and injun spirits.

Man I didn't mind spending time with dead ukrops in a trench, hell I shot three of them and fragged another two. The stink didn't bother me until incoming fire shredded their then three day baked corpses.

lel, what a gay jew

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There's no greater honor than massacring the enemies of Your people. That premise alone is enough to make even the dirtiest war honorable.

It seems you’re completely clueless about what’s coming. Seriously, it almost sounds like you believe the T.V. News.

Oh, so it’s dishonorable to fight off an aggressor? I guess your solution to War is to just die opposing it on principle.

Is Trudeau visiting the U.S. or did he just get a VPN?

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Sounds fun

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I was thinking about it, and colonial Europe matches up a bit with the description of the bronze age of merchant rule. Things like the exploration of the african coast by the portuguese and so.

I would imagine they have major disagreements. Hegel is easy to misunderstand, but he viewed history as having an overall direction. Spengler viewed history as cyclical.

Leadership should understand Spengler, atleast the basic ideas.
Spengler's ideas, while pessimistic, can and should be acted on.
Don't allow yourself to become paralyzed by ideological abstractions and arguing over abstract bullshit, this is decadent folly not suitable for our current reality.
Hold onto your core principles, but play the game and win.
Always keep in mind what's coming during the next stage of the cycle and prepare your family, friends and your social/political organizations for that eventuality.

Doing nothing isn't even an option in Spengler's or Evola's ideas. Just because the shift into the next age is inevitable does not mean you can sit idle and do nothing, it means the opposite, we need to expend tremendous effort just to survive the shift.

It is true that the ages will each end in their own time. but whether or not man will exist to experience the new cycle is for us to decide

Just adding this for a visual take on Ages/Yugas. I know the dates are slightly off, but I am not sure by how much.

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The processes of life are forever governed & shaped by war. For what is evolution but war waged over generations?
It is not equality, rights, freedom or pity but bloody struggle that is the most essential truth of the universe.
When a people arrogantly separate themselves from this eternal truth and come to view stark violence as an aberration or inherently wrong then that people will be destroyed by the simple, honest violence they view with such contempt.
War is not a hobby or a temporary & unpleasant task to be ended swiftly so that a cow like existence of consuming, complaining & fornication can resume. War is a way of life & a world view in itself that rejects sentiment, softness & weakness as a manifestation the spiritual death of a Nation of domesticated animals & replaces them with loyalty, bravery, action, sacrifice & overcoming.
War is the ultimate expression of a Nation & of a man.
War is transformation through struggle.
Because through the struggle of war that which is weak or unsuitable is cut away leaving only that which is strong.
Thus weak men are broken by war & strong men are forged by it & it is the duty of such men to shape their people in accordance with the ruthless truth that war has taught them.
War is not a temporary state it is an ongoing process & everything that lives is a combatant.

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Seems relevant.

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