There is no salvation outside the true church

Don't play dumb with me. What I am asking you is as clear as day.
Do you have the authority to claim your church as the only true church?

1. Christ told Simon that he wasn't merely "Peter", this is a translation of "Cephas", which means great rock. Contrary to the usual Protestant argument, Christ was not saying "You are the rock, and on this rock, which is really myself, I will build this Church".

2. A visible Church was established at this very utterance of Jesus Christ, thus establishing the need for the true Church to be related to St. Peter, and for it to be in existence for about 2,000 years.

3. Christ not only christened His Bride, the Church here, He then promised that hell would never overcome, establishing the need for the visible Church with ties to St. Peter and the 2,000 years proof of existence, otherwise Jesus Christ lied.

This is the authority I obey, that of Christ.

[-]

Classic. You do not obey Christ's authority, you claim your own.
Who is referred to as the rock, repeatedly, throughout the bible?
The longevity of heretical churches does not prove anything. It is only a lie, and a test of our faith.

You are a fool.

Whom did Christ christen "Great Rock", and then immediately proclaim that upon that rock, He will build His church?

The longevity of the Church is absolutely necessary, or Jesus Christ lied.

That you choose to turn away on the flimsiest of understandings is on your own head.

You are holding man alone in too high esteem. Luke 16:15 says that what is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. And, as Catholics such as yourself point out, Catholicism is the largest denomination in Christianity. But it is not true Christianity. It puts false authority in man.

Matthew 5:22

You say this not to me, but to the Christ. I did not create the Church upon St. Peter, I did not proclaim that the Church will be built upon St. Peter, nor that from that time, it should never fall.

Christ did, and you admonish not me, but Christ.

Respond to this one, numbnuts.

My brother does not attack the Bride of the Bride-groom, nor does my brother attack the Bride-groom.

Am I attacking the bride, or the bride-groom? I'm certainly not calling you brother.
If you are going to avoid the fact that you called me a fool when our Lord explicitly forbade it, I will not respond to you any further.

The Bride is the church, the bride-groom is Christ. When you attack Christ's authority, you are attacking Christ, do not be misled on this point.

To attack the Church is to attack Christ by-way of attacking His authority. It is foolish, truly foolish unto death. I'm not admonishing you for the sake of cruelty.

Metropolitan Kallistos Ware

Anyone who thinks Christ's church is a physical church and not a spiritual one has literally misunderstood the whole New Testament.

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Anyone who thinks Christ's Church is not built upon St. Peter, and has not existed since the time of Christ's proclamation, is literally denying Christ by denying His Word and His authority.

Simon was only declared Cephas when he admitted that Jesus is the Christ, think upon it.

Surely, a Greek Orthodox Bishop cannot be accused of a conflict of interest by denying the claim of the Catholic Church, surely.

Do you work for CatholicAnswers or something?

Saint Ignatius- Keep yourselves from those evil plants which Jesus Christ does not tend, because they are not the planting of the Father. Not that I have found any division among you, but exceeding purity. For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of repentance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ. Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If any one walks according to a strange opinion, he agrees not with the passion [of Christ.].

Pope Saint Peter- So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position

Saint Augustine- Salvation no one can have but in the Catholic Church. Out of the Catholic Church he may have anything but salvation. He may have honor, he may have baptism, he may have the Gospel, he may both believe and preach in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost; but he can find salvation nowhere but in the Catholic Church.

Pope Pelagius (A.D. 578 – 590- Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. …Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. …Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. …[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church.” (Denzinger 246-247)

Pope Saint Gregory the Great- Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshiped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 – 1216)- “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 – 1878)- “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 – 1922)- “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

Lmao, this is like Mohammed bragging that the Torah foretold his coming.

damn man that's cool, much christian charity, i hope you have fun with jesus in heaven. what a winnie the pooh saint you are. i bet your body will smell like roses when you die.

*f u c k i n g

catholics call orthodox heretics, orthodox call catholics heretics. and both do it in this g a y pedantic tone you are adopting here. "Do not the Scriptures say that Peter is the Rock? How then can you not etc.", this "stick up your a s s" writing style so common among pretentious Catholics. I hate it.

There is no Christian love in you, just pharisaical pretentiousness. A faggy air of theological bookishness. I hope you suck c o c k s in hell.

Your every faggy comment is dripping with pride, you damn virgin. You're playing Hilaire Belloc on a forum to appease your little sissy ego.

I wish I was a virgin, user. Just like Our Lord.

No, I just study arguments instead of just allowing them to stew around like maggots.

Okay, whatever, I was too aggressive, I'm sorry.

winnie the pooh off. I have Jesus Christ backing me up.

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You do not have Jesus Christ if you do not belong to His Body.

I don't believe I've really insulted anyone in this thread, aside from calling those who prefer to stay in the flood rather than the Ark, fools. Because they are.

Then keep on hating it. Hate it until you tire, then one day maybe you can seriously consider the implications of the Catholic Church being the true Church, and question what happens to those who are outside of it. It's what got me into the Ark.

11And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. 12And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. 13Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.

God bless you!

/thread

Funny. Who are those who tell you so fervently that theirs is The True Church? Only few of the Catholics, mostly Poles, do. In these days only the Orthodox Christians are proud about their Church being the One True Church. And despite that, in this thread a Cathanon is the one arguing, not an Orthanon. :)

Dear Cathanon!
You like to tell us about the Church being build upon St. Peter and that he is the rock upon which the Church is build. But this isn't the only possible interpretation of the scripture. In fact your own (and ours too) early saints had different opinions about who or what is the rock. See this:
the-highway.com/Matt16.18_Webster.html
Can you use Matthew 16:18 as an argument in favour of Roman Catholicism? Maybe, but only when talking with other Roman Catholics. In this thread, however, you are talking with a Protanon who does not accept the usual Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:18. Does he have the right to do so? Yes, he has every right, considering that even your own saints have had different opinions. Please understand my point! I am not claiming that you are incorrect (even if I think you are incorrect). What I am claiming is that your argumentation is not good when participating in a discussion with a Protanon.

Dear Protanon!
You have your point, but I don't think you express youself with the right words. Let me paraphrase you:

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Every single human being always has Christ. His "body" was a methaphor to being closer to him. How DARE you propose the complete absence of our Lord from another human being because he had never "eaten" something?

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The word "has" somewhat disturbs me. Christ has me, but I don't own Him.
Otherwise I agree with you. Notice, however, that there are different degrees of "having". See below.

No, no: "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you." (John 13:21)

The words "just as" mean that this is not a metaphor.

"I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity." (John 13:22)

This oneness is something that only members of the One True Church can have. Oneness in everything. Oneness in the love for every friend or enemy; oneness in the obedience, oneness in rejoicing in the suffering, supplementing in our flesh the shortage of suffering in Christ for the sake of the Church. (Colossians 1:24)

Then how can God send anyone to Hell? Even Satan cannot stand against himself.

Over 2,000 years of the Church disagrees with you, and then, The Apostle himself: For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

We have the earliest records of Christians (St. Justin Martyr, the Muratonian Fragment) affirming the literal understanding of the Eucharist, we have St. Paul speaking of the Body and Blood of Christ as literal - not as an extended metaphor on sola fide - for how else can we eat and not believe and bring condemnation upon ourselves?

If we already don't believe, we're already condemned. How can we eat the Body of Christ and bring condemnation upon ourselves, if we already don't believe? St. Paul was literal, as was Christ.

Then how can anyone go to hell, user? You trip over yourself in denying the Eucharist, poisoning the rest of your understanding of what Christ intends for us upon the earth.

Low iq poster

christian server

discord gg/Xw4V7Jb

my church says that you're a huge faggot

If salvation is as simple as existing, if Christ is with you no matter what, then what's the point of Christ ever showing up? What's the point of avoiding sin?

Postmodern Christianity (prots) are the most disgusting pieces of shit I've ever encountered.

This is the a great case in point for people to realize why protestantism has utterly failed. They have realized how totally out of control it has become and now have started this new nonsense that "oh no denomination has the all the truth" "God wants diversity so we can worship in different ways etc". Before prots used to be adamant that their church was really the right church - but they've realized now that it's such an impossible position to hold now with their new denominations popping up every day.

And don't even come at me saying that new denominations don't pop up every day. They literally are even faster now - everytime a 'pastor' has a fag son come out, they branch of and create a new fag loving variant. this has happened so many times. and it's only going to get worse and worse. extra ecclesiam nulla salus. you know who we are.

So by making this thread, telling everyone who believes that they belong to the true Church that they do not in fact belong to the true Church, aren't you implicitly making a claim about the identity true Church, and, therefore, proving that you too ARE NOT SAVED?

I don't see much if anything in there that contradicts the position of the Catholic Church, but I'll admit this is rather complex and a bit over my head. The light of Christ is present throughout the world, even the light and work of Mary (See: Our Lady of Guadalupe). The sacraments of the church are the visible participatory signs of Christ's grace but that doesn't mean they're the only examples of Christ's grace or mercy in the world. There's concepts like invincible ignorance as well. None of this means Catholics don't have a mission to evangelize, nor does it mean that we shouldn't ideally hope for everyone to be converted to the Church, it simply means that the salvation of mankind is not entirely the burden of mankind themselves, and that anyone the church fails to convert or evangelize is doomed. Still there is a very real chance for those outside the Church to end up in hell, it's not a 100% done deal that simply.

They also believed that graces were imparted by wood and water, hence also the Ark can be related to the cross. The critical difference is that Christ was crucified for all of humanity on the wood of the cross, not merely those who were already holy. He died for everyone not just the Church.

*nor that anyone the church fails to convert or evangelize is doomed

Hello religious pluralism.