Let's discuss what went wrong and why it was everything. Was the Schlieffenplan a conceptual mistake? Would a defensive stance against the French in Elsass-Lothringen coupled with Prussian maneuver warfare autism against the Russian Empire in the east have been a better plan, especially considering the eternal Anglo wouldn't have immediately closed all the shipping lanes with Belgium being uninvolved?
And if the Central Powers managed to somehow win, wouldn't (((they))) be apt to choose Germany as their primary European base of Operations for enacting their subversive master plans? The German Empire did harbor plenty of Juden at the time.
Central powers goals and plans if they had won WW1
1.All fortifications from Dunkirk to Boulogne will be destroyed. 2.The ore rich area of Briey will be annexed outright. Coastal strips in the North would also fall under German control. 3.War debts shall be imposed on France so large that she is incapable of rearming herself for 15-20 years 4.The French will cease all trade with Great Britain and will be reliant on the Germans economically. 5.Either the outright annexation of Belgium or the seizure of lands up to Antwerp and making the rest a "vassal state" 5.Luxemburg integrated into the empire as a "Germanic State" (think how Prussia, Bavaria, Wurttemburg, and Saxony were quasi-independent states in the Empire) 6.The creation of a Central European economic sphere (think EU almost) of the German client states in the West and the newly formed states created in the East from a supposed Russian defeat as well. All client/buffer states of Germany, of course. Translated it states " including France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Austria-Hungary, Poland and tolls. Italy, Sweden and Norway. This association will not have no common constitutional supreme superficial equality of its members, but actually under German leadership, must the economic dominance over Central Europe stabilize. " 7.The annexation of all Central African colonies controlled by Belgium and France(later UK)– basically creating a giant German colony across the African continent. .
The Ottomans were crumbling from the inside out and the war was a way to regain some land lost to the Russians in previous wars i.e The Caucasus (Armenia,Azerbaijan and Georgia) and also fight their way back to relevancy. The Ottomans also had plans with Germany to create a Berlin to Baghdad continuous railroad to link Europe and the Arabian peninsula .This would link the Ottomans to the industrialized Central Europe and link Germany to its African colonies by land thus negating the need for a strong navy partially. they had plans in the long term of when the war was to be over and they had got some reestablished some order they would take the the whole Arabian peninsula in a couple years
they were in similar in the boat as the Ottomans in that they were fighting for survival. The Croats, Bosnians, and Slovenes all wanted more autonomy and independent will in the Empire and right out of Hungary would come suppression and oppression to keep them down.They really had no large territorial goals and ambitions
you can read more information form the book titled "Griff nach der Weltmacht: Die Kriegzielpolitik des kaiserlichen Deutschland 1914–1918" which was published in English as ""Germany's Aims in the First World War." by German historian Fritz Fischer this book was some what controversial im Germany now these were the official goals of each empire but what would have happened next in this world thats really not something we can predict also there were plans to give British and french colonies (South,Africa,Indochina,Canada,Australia,Afghanistan the British Raj) their Independence
Mason Morales
>And if the Central Powers managed to somehow win, wouldn't (((they))) be apt to choose Germany as their primary European base of Operations for enacting their subversive master plans? In a sense this was the question shortly after the crimean war. Jew empire in central europe vs England, england had the banks and shipping lanes/maritime empire already so we know how that went.
Hunter Allen
GOD I HATE THIS FUCKING PARAPLEGIC, INFERIORITY COMPLEX FAGGOT My number one on my bucket list is to go to this fag's grave and shit on it.
u wot m8 Modern day Slovenia was mostly part of Austria, there is just a small strip of land that was part of Hungary. And Bosnia was an entity that had nothing to do with Hungary. In the case of Croatia, they were under Hungary in a legal sense, but they were still quite free internally, with their own parliament and laws. Their dream was basically to get on our level and transform the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy into the Austro-Hungaro-Croatian Monarchy.
Dumb question, but for the life of me I can't figure out why all sides on the Western front kept initiating attacks when time and again they gained nothing from them and suffered huge losses.
They had to know the massive disparity between offensive and defensive capabilities during the war, so why not just invest all on defense and let the enemy bleed trying to smash through your trenches?
Zachary Sanchez
Dogmatic, stubborn generals insisting on fighting wars as they were prior to WW1. Keep in mind that at the beginning of the war the French were still wearing bright, blue uniforms and thought firing lines were an effective strategy against mounted machine guns.
Eli Morales
Germans largely didn't and even initiated a strategy to bleed out France. France had too as Germany was occupying a good chunk of it. Protip: if you sue for peace when the enemy is camping within artillery range of your capital, typically it means you lost…
Wyatt Foster
The initial push through Belgium showed that state of the art defense (big ass fortresses with modern repeating mounted guns using overlapping fields of fire) was useless in the face of German mobile artillery and the top minds at the time were just not thinking in "modern" terms of combat yet
So their whole aim was just the modern EU, but with vassals/territories instead of "members." Sounds like Bismarck would be a fan of Merkel
Could anybody with a bit of book knowledge enlighten me on the possible ramifications of the war in the far east? I'm looking at you, norse user. Battle of Tsingtao and whatnot, whether or not the Japanese could have had a major role in the war, etc.
iirc Japan just dicked around in China and some German territories near China.
Nicholas Thompson
That I know, what I'm asking is what could have happened if the war had been prolonged.
Austin Morales
Austro-Hungaro-Croato-Czech monarchy :^) Really, though, estabilishment of Austria-Hungary pissed Czechs off to an extreme level. Up until then the mainstream thought was "we should remain in the empire, but gain more autonomy, move towards a federation". After A-H became a thing, the new mainstream was "Austrians are unwilling to compromise. Total independence is our only option." It was similar in other parts of the empire. Victory in the Great War wouldn't have fixed these issues – it'd just delay the inevitable.
Brandon Rodriguez
I never said he wasn't. Just that tying up the whole eurosphere under German leadership (without war) was something he would have been all over
This. The only way A-H could had work is through further decentralization. The Austrians and the Hungarians should had made agreements with the Croats and the Czechs exactly like the the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867 and turn the empire into A-H-C-C/"Great Danubia". I'm still more inclined to say that Prussia should had just invade the German parts of Austria after the battle of Königgrätz and let Hungary and Czechia become independent, but that deserves an entirely new discussion.
Easton Evans
So there'd have been a CETO and a NATO on top of whatever the Japs would try to cook up in their respective colonial empire? Why does this sound so familiar?
Probably nothing unless they started dicking around in the russian far east, german colonial possessions and their military presence in Asia were meme tier anyway.
How would the Russian Republic have dieded if Wilhelm II. hadn't sent Lenin over? Would Trotsky have assumed control much to the chagrin of leftypol?
Austin Ortiz
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Schlieffen Plan, is in fact, Schlieffen-Moltke Plan, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Schlieffen plus Moltke Plan. Moltke Plan is not an tactical plan unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Schlieffen Plan made useful by the Schlieffen documents, shelling civilians and vital meatshield components comprising a full Plan as defined by Großer Generalstab.
Many living meatshields run a modified version of the Schlieffen Plan every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Plan which is widely used today is often called "Moltke", and many of its users are not aware that it is basicaly the Schlieffen Plan, developed by the Großer Generalstab.
There really is a Moltke Plan, and these meatshields are using it, but it is just a part of the Plan they use. Moltke is the deployment plan: the Plan in the grand strategy that allocates the warmachine's resources to the other Plans that you run. The deployment plan is an essential part of an healthy invasion , but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete and total war. Moltke is normally used in combination with the Schlieffen operating plan: the whole system is basically Schlieffen Plan with Moltke added, or Schlieffen=Moltke. All the so-called "Moltke" Plans are really Plans of Schlieffen-Moltke.
Because she succeeded where wilhelm and adolf failed. although it looks like spearheading all the import of second-hand ottomans is going to blow up in her face
Levi Adams
I don't Bismark's and Hitler's goal was to genocide ethnic Germans.
Jeremiah James
Bismark probably wouldn't stand for it, but it does seem to be the end result of Hitler's efforts.
Carter Nelson
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Christian Carter
In WW1, Germany has about 100.000 yids.
Yids flock to Germany AFTER WW1.
Alexander Cooper
It was time to feed on the wounded Eagle. Just like how hohols now have a "comedian" kile for a president.
Josiah Edwards
how so?
which was forced on germany in the 60's by it's jewish-american masters
have you gone full retard mali kurvin sin, jesili glupan
Easton Gutierrez
The Russian bolshevist jews were largely paid by the American-Jewish bankers, the gold Germany sent with Lenin was only a very small part of the overall wealth the judeo-bolshevists got.
Eli Gonzalez
Lenin was a Chaos Champion. Obviously only lenin could have stirred the shitpot that was 1919 Russia and not thousands of others.
Blake Powell
Semantics, the point is that moltke's butchering of schlieffen's plan was what caused the war to go in the direction that it did
Christian Flores
Nope, some other kike would have taken his place.
That and the little fact that the usa supported britain and france with gigantic material support and credits to buy these war materials. which is the real reason why the usa joined the war, so the jewish bankers didn't lose their repayment of the credits in a case of german victory.
Jordan Wright
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Anthony Bailey
The Russian empire was getting too strong, industrializing, and educating its population. Every major power, Germany, UK, and fucking America funded the Bolshevists to stop that. They thought it would be a regular coup, and US/UK/DK could have a friendly government in their pocket.
By the time they saw Bolshevists were raping and eating their way through the families of the previous government, it was too late. The great powers even tried to put the breaks on with the Polar expedition, but it was just a flash in the pan compared to the utter insanity they funded for two decades.
And now that insanity is here.
I honestly hope the entire west burns and all white people go extinct, because we fucking deserve it.
Luis Roberts
Having the highest Jewish (read: Polish) population in Europe
Luis Morris
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James Martinez
The germans were building a railroad to turkey, this was the equivalent of a new silk road and the kikes running standard oil which was the monopoly of the day were not only threatened but faced collapse had that new route of commerce be completed. So they jewed up some excuses and blamed all of Germany.
Landon Lewis
Petroleum was a mistake. Free as in freedom energy when?
This. Germany could have sent a revolutionary of any political persuasion to Moscow and some kind of revolution would have happened pretty quickly.
As soon as you can find a way to make the project profitable enough to the right people.
Ethan Roberts
The freedom to use the energy as you wish, for any purpose. The freedom to study how the energy is produced, and change the method so it does your conversion as you wish. Access to the blue prints and physical background documentation is a precondition for this. The freedom to distribute your power so you can help your neighbor. The freedom to distribute stored forms of your converted energy to others. By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your conversion method and energy storage solutions. Access to the physical background documentation is a precondition for this.
Jason Ramirez
Try one better en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_carbonization Chuck some dead leaves, water, and a lemon into a pressure cooker, 10 bar, 180 C, and 12 hours later you have a pressure cooker full of low-quality brown coal mixed with water. Basically no infrastructure requirements so long as you have a pressure vessel that can safely take it. Do it at home and post results.
Luke Sanders
Finally I have an excuse to post WILLY DID NOTHING WRONG
Nathan Robinson
Basically, political considerations. Russia gets their second army destroyed and calls out for help. France and UK can't really do anything, they're on the wrong side of Europe, but don't want to sit around like a pack of assholes either. So, they half-bake a plan (if you could be so generous to call it that) with the goal of 'diverting the enemy's resources' and get minor successes at unacceptable losses without actually helping. Then it happens again to the French in the battle of Verdun; the other allies are pressured to make premature offensives in an attempt to divert resources or reserves that never actually are diverted, when they should have been marshaling strength and properly planning an offensive. French troops begin to mutiny? British launch the third battle of Ypres to raise morale.
Eventually you got commonwealth, and later, American (Pershing was called the most stubborn man in Europe), officers who were less susceptible to this and more willing to innovate rather than rely on magical thinking, which was also a big problem.
Lucas Evans
Except for the bit where all decisive battles indeed saw 18th century fortresses playing a key role.
Strategically their role was null as indeed heavy artillery could deal with them easily, but tactically it was still a gigantic pain in the butt that led to the systematic stalling of German offensives, the Germans would advance, stumble upon an "old but good" fortress (Vauban-designed fortress are designed with overlapping fire angles for 300m range for rifles, 2000m for guns emplacements. A fortress being in fact a complex of fortified gun positions and not a single place. The man was a military genius that had completely anticipated the evolution of artillery and guns for centuries. AFAIK none of them fell in combat until WWI. And even then the way the buildings were designed proved to provide really good cover for anything but the largest shells) so they had to wait for their heavy gun support. Meanwhile the entente would reorganize and counter-attack en force, forcing the now exhausted and low on supply Germans back too far so the scarce heavy guns couldn't be risked to be too close. Rince-repeat. WWI is a terrible war were all the basis of maneuver warfare are there… except the real mobility of the forces is actually dreadful, until the Russian and the Allied army of Orient managed two gigantic cavalry (as in horseback cavalry) assaults that virtually wipe-out Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian forces, forcing Germany to call it quits. Because horses had proper sustainable mobility.
People think that mechanized warfare won WWI… when every major offensive with tanks against Germany were actually repelled for the exact same reason old fortresses were still useful, tank offensives worked on a strategical level but they fizzled out all the same due to a lack of support on the tactical level due to their dreadful mobility.
But if you tell people that horses won WWI you sound like a nutjob.
Caleb Jackson
Would fortresses still work in this day and age, or would the enemy just cruise missile them into oblivion? I mean, you could try to put so much AA on them that the would run out of missiles before the fortress runs out of ammunition, but I have the doubts about that. Which were these two offensives?
Isaac Perez
Vardar Offensive is the second one, the first I think is Bruselov's Offensive where Cossacks did as they do best.
Justin Hall
Who are you planning on fighting from this fortress? If it's the Americans, Russians, any other 1st rate army, then you're going to get either cruise missiles, air strikes, or artillery falling on you until you either surrender or can't defend the position any more. Against insurgents or the like they'd probably do relatively well (although there have been several cases of insurgents/terrorists developing bargain basement artillery kit by now) but they'd probably cost much more than they were worth in that scenario. Especially if you have to start filling it with high end AA with a large stockpile of ammo.
