Rebuilding modern Germany

Wake up, kamaraden, you are now the Chancellor of the new German Reich. The Amerikan have left the shores of Europe and the muslim/jews are being deported/killed and the people have united under your leadership.

Now what's your plan to renovate Germany's small and aging military? I propose:
- take out all the AK74 left in East German's warehouse and retool them for 5.56
- take out all the rusty Leopard 1 and upgrade them with modern features in order to have a quick tank fleet

What else do you suggest?

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Retool them for instead, we need our enemies to die, not writhe around in pain.
Build UFO's and obliterate our enemies.

If you need .30 cal, just get the G3 in stock and modernize them.

There is so much old steel shit lying in Germany that can be quickly be put to use.

Fuck off boomer, battle rifles are outdated.

Change out the poor quality gear and Hammer sickle buckles and replace the helmet with a Kevlar equivalent. If ever the German commies got anything right, it was uniforms.

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Well if your going to use old shit as a stop gap then do that.

You act like a 308. rifle with a 30 round mag and select fire is impractical.

Those goddamn helmets are fucking terrible.

Modern german uniform is fine.

It is, and has been since 1942. Amerimutt retardation knows no bounds.

Importantly tell NATO to get fucked and rebarrel them with 1:12 twist barrels so you can use M193 instead of shitty M855. only because Mk262 doesn't exist yet

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I liquidate completely the German excuse for a military to save money and I focus in trying to save the German economy (that is gonna crash without survivors… and the EU with it).
I focus on mandatory medically assisted impregnation to make sure that EVERY German female of age has had at least 3 kids even if they have to have them at once to stimulate internal consumption.
I try to start to repo at least some of the insane amount of loans I forked to the europoors those last two decades. I stop the insane subsides to the industry for exports.
The saved money I put in schools, infrastructure and bail out money for my crumbling pensions funds.

Because if I don't Germany is gonna crash so hard it's gonna take the continent with it.

Germany is that weird country that think that if you exchange a well made car, made of countless pricey components and materials, against an IOU… you're richer. And that it's so important the German banks lends ACTUAL money to foreign banks that don't have money, so they can lend that money to their people so they can buy German cars (so the German bank can money from the pensioners and workers)… at a colossal loss. The German gov' might as well buy cars by the boatload and sink them in the Atlantic that would still be cheaper than the insanity that is going on.
Yeah that they heavily reinvested in subsided car production chains and tooling, making the German car industry the most autisticly efficient and high tech one around.

Except in an always more urban world that is de-globalizing, fuel prices booming, ecological concern rising and automated solutions to personal transportation are exploding what is the one thing that is definitely NOT gonna sold well tomorrow?
Cars. All the critical components of future smart vehicles are made in asia, all automated ones will be considerably simpler (and thus with considerably less margins… so they will be made in place where work is cheap… so not in Germany), etc…
Germany has spent all his gold, his children and prostituted his wife to get the best stagecoach-making industry on the planet when the rail is starting to boom.

That's what I would try to fix if I was chancellor right now.

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It's what peak performance looks like; you're just salty.
Don't get me wrong, the Bundeswehr combat uniforms are top notch, but their dress uniforms are unsightly modifications of American sloppiness in a shade of some off colour field grey, which is probably officially designated as field gay. Those poor sods all look like mid-level Aldi managers in their field gay suits; on the other hand, the DDR managed to maintain German heritage in their uniforms (and to a certain extent, the BGS in West, but that's part of the police now).
Burger in uniform is such a shit idea.

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B…but user this is the "weapons" board, not the "analysing Germany's financial state and growing despondent because it's an oil soaked dumpster fire waiting for the match to be thrown in" board.

Why must you remind us

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Economy is the easiest shit to fix.

Force all women to be at home, give social benefits to married couples with children.
Replace lost women with automaton.
Glare in full force natalist propaganda.
Rebuild domestic industry, especially heavy such as car, airplanes and weaponry.

Sell weapons, get money, put into national banks.


Those helmet look like stupid ass Star Wars rebel helmets.

The germans have discovered the best helmet design and have used it since WW1, stick to it.

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LOL, destroying the military goes around restoring the economy.

The military and economy goes hand in hand, because the military is how you enforce the value of your money and how you have a heavy industry base.

Make Bundesgrenzschutz uniforms standard ceremonial unis for all branches, just adjust the color palette to fit.

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The problem is the money is just an IOU note. Its fucking worthless.

Again, the point of fiat money is money enforced by violence.


I think it would be slightly cheaper to convert existing G36 stock to 5.45mm, but it's pretty much the same result either way. I'd also take all of the old G3s and MG3s out of mothballs, give the newest guns to the regular army (G3s might be obsolete as assault rifles but they still make great DMRs etc) and the rest are used to arm reserves and militias.

To salvage the air force, just arrange to purchase or locally produce some Su-25s and Su-57s (Sukhoi already offers NATO-compatible Su-25s, they'd probably do the same for the Su-57 if a buyer asked for it). Sell off all F-35s and Typhoons in service and cancel all future orders, this will help a bit with the dire financial situation.

Armor is probably the biggest problem, as far as I know Germany scrapped or sold off all their surplus and they can't afford a thousand new MBTs. As a stopgap they could build some assault guns along the lines of a Kanonenjagdpanzer, up-armored to be more or less RPG-proof and upgunned to around 105mm. You can also fit it with a remotely-operated ATGM launcher, which would turn it into a pretty efficient tank destroyer.

Germany is also in urgent need of lightweight artillery (they currently have no towed guns whatsoever), so you could try something really radical here and develop a 105mm howitzer that shares ammo with your new tank gun (or perhaps even use the same gun for both roles). Aside from the obvious advantage of unified logistics, this also guarantees that the assault gun is one of the only western AFVs to actually carry an effective HE shell.

I guess the German navy also needs fixing, but I have no idea what sort of state they're in right now.

Why buy Su-57 when it's not even proven to work yet?

Germany can develop their own aircraft without help from the ruskies.

New Turkey is here to stay. Germany is gone forever.

Not on my watch.

Also, I check Wikipedia and Cold War era Germany had about 2400 Leopard 1, even if they can re-activate 50% of that, combine with the 200-300 Leopard 2 currently you would have a decent tank fleet already, never mind the tanks left by East Germany also in Storage (which is around 2700 of various models).

Germany really has a shitton of old shit that can be reused if needed.

The ones can be re-used, we modernize.
The ones too broken, we take out the guns and make them into tank destroyer or light artillery.

t."huwhite" of north african heritage

1. Take out all the Leopard 1 and T-72 currently in storage.
2. Clean and grub, replace electronics.
3. Add in ERA armor
4. BOOM! Install new MBT ready to use.

As always, the way of the future lies in the past.

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The helmet of the NVA was based on late war Wehrmacht research for a new Stahlhelm you illiterate yellow nigger.

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It still looks bad and why fix something not broken in the first place?

I was assuming we're under some kind of time and monetary pressure. Developing a domestic 5th gen fighter takes upwards of a decade and is ten times more expensive than just buying the latest slavshit.

This is your brain on nu/pol/ autism.

Also why make the thread if all the conclusions are already drawn by yourself? You could have titled it "my ideas on how to fix the German army" or something if you had the ideas. If your ideas were sound, interesting, and memorable you'd be remembered as the second coming of trainautist, but alas, you make this.

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Yeah, because it really look those stupid fucking helmets.

Modern helmet designs follows the stahlhem because they provide protection as well as being form fitting, which is very important in modern crowded combat.

I already propose my ideas, see:

While you fucking whine about FASHION and UNIFORM, jesus christ, which matters jack fucking shit.

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1. Su-57 has not been proven in combat.
2. Germany currently has 140 typhoon in use.

If there is a problem with the typhoon, they should fix it instead of scrapping them altogether than buying new one.

More focus should be put on SAM/missiles in general anyway, which would be a more economical option.


Except it was seen as broken because the high, unsloped forehead and sides were frequently penetrated even by shrapnel.
Hence the new model which the NVA used as the M54/M56 after the war.

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Those issues are already rectified by the M92, which is already in use.

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you kill yourself

Bump for reason why.

I like how this is an actual military thread and nobody fucking responds constructively except the french and the american.

What's the matter? Not enough MEMES?

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Jesus Christ you godless Bambusratte. If you wanted to make a thread about your wehraboo-fantasies, you should have just said so.
literally why?
We got plenty of old guns around, even the G36 is plenty all right for what it does. If one really needed some new guns quick for a massive enlargement of the Heer, just take out all the old G3s again. Roller delay a best.
More to the point, the German State should just take over H&K, since at this point in time, it is once again uncertain who actually owns it. Take it, increase their tooling, tell them to drop their jewish prices and start giving us some guns.
Artillery would need a big old upgrade, just bang on Rheinmetall's doors and take all their exports to the muds and keep it for ourselves.
Same with the Navy. Instead of gifting the yids their subs, take them for ourselves. Scuttle all the surface fleet with their constructors on board as a demonstration for what happens to Volksverrätern.
Reinstate the Germaniawerft. Take control of Thyssen-Krupp and protect it from foreign ownership.
Fuck the inventors of the Puma with the broomhandles used as mock-up guns on their platform and have them explain why an APC has to weigh 50+ tons.
Bust apart Airbus for failing in every capacity, but most of all for being a subsidiary of the French state only. Buy some Gripens or anything that works, really. Buy transport planes, fighter/bombers and all the ancillary stuff from competent places as placeholders until the German industry is up to producing their own planes again.
Same with helicopters. Just get some that work.
As an aside, get the German infantry some proper anti-tank guns. The Panzerfaust-3 is a goddamn joke and impossible to carry.
Also, go back to Feldgrau as uniform color as said.
Lastly, get the German drill going again. Do away with the Anglo shit and let us reclaim our Prussian heritage and training, which was unequivocally German armies' greatest asset through time.
Doing away with all the feminist shit goes without saying, of course.

If you imagine that the amount of money, 2% of its GDP, Germany has pledged to spend on its military as per NATO-agreement would double the current budget and eclipse Russia's military spending.
Whereas here in the real world, German soldiers are not allowed to fire grenades and AT-weaponry in training because they are too expensive.

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>Remove Democracy, Welfare, Women's Rights, Subhuman Rights and allow for civil servants to be fired.
>Terminate all (((business)))-oriented privately owned television and radio programs, replace them with a single state owned TV channel broadcasting for 3 hours every day and one basic radio channel per Reichsprovinz for traffic warnings.

Former KSK commander who got kicked out because he supported someone publicy saying soviet commissars were 80% jews.
It can easily be done especially if you don't have to pay gibs to the new Europeans.
This is to study and analyze the combat in current war zones because German doctrine might need some adjustments to fighting irregular forces. Unfortunately no soviet equipment will be stolen and transported to Germany this time.
The only people shitting on the G36 are journalists who never used a weapon before. Every soldier tells you it is a light and accurate gun that never jams. G3 still has some limited use aswell.
Let them maintain it and each one has to be given a name. Currently even in our actual combat units there are fewer guns than soldiers.
Both striking and grappling techniques will be taught.
Not only does it greatly improve your endurance you also learn how to fight with no weapons at all. Some courses should be mandatory and others voluntarily. Soldiers should have the option to just go for some rounds of BJJ in their freetime.
Soldiers have too much freetime where they just sit around doing nothing so they might aswell do some mock firefights in a paintball arena.
Brings back tradition and greatly improves morale.
If the soldiers aren't in combat at least let them train properly for it more than once a year.
Occasionally use civilian environemnts like a factory complex or a school for training. This will make the youth more interested in the military. You interrupt their class with some fancy room clearing and at the end of the exercise hand out a pizza to everyone.
Dealing with enemy air support, reliably destroying SVBIEDs, fire support against enemy fortifications, ability to shoot down drones, can harass armored vehicles to an extend, obliterates light vehicles and they are absolutely great for urban combat. There is no reason not to use them.
Paratroopers can be rapidly deployed and do a variety of tasks. Mechanized infantry is a great option for current warfare due to speed, firepower and the option to combine them with armored units. No matter the type of enemy mechanized infantry is always a good choice.

Isn't that what the DDR did and found out that doesn't work and lead to shortages?

DDR also didn’t have access to many national markets.

I was planning on joining the Bundeswehr (Panzergrenadiere or Fallschirmjäger) after Uni but what my friend tells me of the Canadian army it seems like a kindergarten for retards and the mentally unstable where they do hard drugs all the time and fuck around.

I know guys in the German Heer. They're pretty disillusioned, but hanging on. The last years have not been kind to them, though. Under Flintenuschi's reign, things have turned from bad to worse. Terribly underfunded, undergunned, and the new recruits coming in more useless than the previous. Most officers seem to only be in it for the cash, too.
Truth be told, that's the only infantry left. The Jägers are mixed into the German-French Brigade and only battalion sized.
No one worth their salt wants to be Luftwaffel-AA. I literally cannot think of a more boring job.

The Bundeswehr as it stands today is fucked from top to bottom. They lack everything. And it's gonna take more than just more funds for this situation to unfuck itself.

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This is a great idea, wonder why it hasn't done before.

I don't think you understand how fucked the DDR was when it came to trade, first off their currency was worthless and accepted nowhere leading them to use hard western currency they nabbed from tourists i.e Intershop, forced currency exchanges. Also nobody wanted any of the literal crap they were producing so that was out of the picture unless they agreed hilariously lopsided deals to get said resources, they fucked themselves in every regard. Either nobody wanted what they had or realized they had them by the balls and took them to the cleaners as the Viets did.

The Bundeswehr as a whole has been fucked since the fall of the wall.

It seems like a waste of my time to join but the Canadian army seems much worse, plus there is no future for Canada, every year we grow closer to 56% and the Nationalist Party is obscure and unknown to everyone but some nationalists (>implying Canada is a nation), while Bernier’s party is pretty good and much more mainstream he probably doesn’t have any chance either. I just want to fight but every fight NATO is in is for Israel or some shitty peacekeeping job. Can you please re-establish the Freikorps and start shooting commies in the streets, and defending all rightful clay of Germany, again?

I thought they weren’t even allowed trade with the west because of muh aluminum sheet. Though honestly the Cold War isn’t my most familiar era.

Canada is 66% as of December 31 2018, the government suppressed statistics and kept claiming we were 80%+ for the last 20 years. You have to go to independent bodies like pew, and look at unrelated stats like religion or national origin to combine an answer.

The whole eastern bloc had an economy entirely directed at taking western currency out of the hands of its people by getting them to buy imported western goods so they could use said currency to buy basic stuff. You wanna know the sad part about that, people who were visiting those red shitholes found the goods in those shops to be up to 50% cheaper than they were in the west.

imagine how much kikes are jewing you right now

So is there any feasibility to my plan of upgrading and modernizing the fleet of old T-72 and Leopard 1?

am I doing this right?

In all seriousness, I don't think the monkey model T-72s and Leopard 1s are worth looking into. The modern German, much like the modern Russian is finding himself to be too tall to actually fit comfortably inside the T-72s low ground profile thanks to capitalismburgers. Though I suppose they could look into whatever upgrade package the Polish did to theirs. The Leopard 1 is a bit of a joke to be honest. Its armor is so paper thin that putting ERA onto it would be like trying to re-enforce a wooden manifest destiny era rail road trestle to take a modern diesel locomotive. Your best bet, if you are still seriously going to consider using it, is to put all of your money into not getting hit. Because nothing is going to stop it from being penetrated by even a T-34/76 besides overloading the chassis with bolt on armor. This would mean going back to the "stealth panzer" prototype and go all out on active protection systems. I don't know how the turret ring and space inside looks, but if they could squeeze a 120mm into the M60, maybe it would work in a leopard 1? I still doubt its usefulness. If something is going to be that lightly armored it should have wheels. The Leopard 2 is also in rather dire straights. Its chassis is overloaded with more and more armor and longer and longer guns because they refuse to use modern materials in their projectiles and armor. Not to mention its getting slower and slower. They should make a new MBT in all honesty, but we all know that's not going to happen.

Leopard 1 armor worked just as well as all other cold war tank armor against contemporary HEAT rounds. Overweight slow british/american tanks had useless armor that was penetrated easily from very far away. Only with chobam armor did tanks see an improvement in protection against anti-tank weapons compared to ww2.

Yeah, how about less armor, more mobility and better support from infantries. The jewish-american way of fixing shit is always throwing away what works and spend billions on new models.

Armor is less important when you have proper support and good mobility.

Kill yourself.

The point is to reuse as much shit as possible instead of PROCURING new shit.

They might actually found a way: just put the turret of the Leclerc on a Leopard 2.

Because it is too tactical and specific. Someone like von der Leyen won't understand why it is important and you just have to get lucky the right advisor is shilling this project.
Soviets/Russians used them in a similar way during the wars in Afghanistan and Chechnya with success.

These models are outdated and modernizing them now would mean you would have to modernize them in a few years again. Tank warfare currently is about surviving ATGMs. Unfortunately we can not hand out cybernetic enhancements to the armies we export our tanks to so that they don't get obliterated by ATGMs. This means your best bet is strapping the right armor to your tank.
I would take the Leopard 1s and put them in a light and mobile anti tank unit. Combine them with various ATGM vehicles and you have a hit and run division that can reliabely take out armored formations. Of course we can not miss out on a few Gepards so we will include those too.
The T-72s will be used for exercises or experiments.

Honestly, SPAAG equipped with a few ATGM would be a good support vehicle even against tanks.

And what's the idea of putting ATGM on Leopard 1 and T-72? Would up their arsenal quite seriously.

And this hasn't been said before, but can you something like a small CWIS that intercepts and kills ATGM? ATGM seems to go slow most of the times.

Wouldn't those be subject to plenty of clutter, especially in Aleppo-tier Urban environments?

Yeah, but it still would be better than being hit by an ATGM.

As far as puppet economies go, how did Vichy France and Manchukuo compare to the DDR?

Not too well read on Vichy other than they accounted for something like 35% of all the foreign supplied support the Reich had. Manchukuo after Japanese annexation, investment and direction was second to Japan itself in terms of sheer industry, but that is what happens when Japanese start running things from the incompetent Han and Manchus who had the reigns before '32.

I don't exactly think its fair to compare the DDR to those two considering the DDR itself was the unwanted leftovers after carving up the eastern half of Europe. Stalin himself tried to give it back, but who knows what of would happened if that decided to happen.

The pure delusion in that post.. holy fuck.

There is absolutely no reason to rechamber any small arms. The thing that makes changing calibers for army expensive isn't the guns. It is ammunition stockpiles, tooling for ammunition production and so on. It is essentially everything except the gun itself that makes switching caliber expensive for army.

The air force stuff is even more retarded. There will never be large numbers of new built Su-25's. Production tooling only exists in Georgia and they aren't in good terms with Russia. Essentially all Su-25's that have been exported to various countries since the end of the cold are used examples from stocks of existing users that have been overhauled and modernized. The country where the NATO compatible avionics tfor Su-25 come from is most likely Israel. When Soviet Union went to trashheap of history it belongs into, they had plenty that were essentially new Su-25's that had been barely used in storage.

Germany doesn't have F-35's and are extremely unlikely to buy 'em. Bunch of Luftwaffe generals wanted F-35's, they were removed from their offices and forced to retire. The Airbus FCAS Germans are developing with the French isn't ready for production or service in a long time and Tornadoes need replacement. F-35 is better than Typhoon for that mission set. Yet, Merkel literally fired their air force chief of staff for publicly saying obvious truth.

Su-57 at this point seems to be a white elephant for Russian air force. Why the fuck would you replace Typhoon with it? The issue with Typhoon isn't the plane, it is the ultra-kike'd supply chain that comes with the plane. It is mostly domestic product for Germans, they need cooperation with Bongs, or to replace foreign components with domestic ones to fully control it all,

When it comes to German navy. A lot needs fixing. Awful lot.

Only thing you got right is the fact that they have sold off or scrapped a lot of Cold War era surplus.

It takes longer than a decade to develop a fighter. 25 years or so from initial concept studies to final product starting to enter service.

Unless Russia decides to vaporize the Tbilisi plant, don't think there is a problem acquiring their modernized frogfoots.

Most of their Leopard 1's were either sold off or scrapped. They probably still have a bunch in depots, but those are in storage for potential modernization or overhaul and sale to a friendly 3rd world country. Finding 3rd world buyers that German politicians will issue export licenses for is bit hard.

They might have bunch of Leopard 2's storage as well, but a lot of surplus Leopard 2's have been exported into plenty of countries after the end of Cold War. Very few of those have been new built tanks. Majority of modern versions of Leo2 that exist are modernized older models, A4's or older being rebuilt into A5's, A6's and A7's or whatever they are marketing the newest version as. Basically only new built Leopard 2's in 2000's have been about 400 tanks to Greece and Spain, built under license in those countries.

They don't have reasonable amount of T-72's in storage, there might be few that are there for potential donation to a museum. Bunch ex-NVA T-72's were sold to Finland in early 90's and rest were turned into teaspoons. Most of ones sold to Finland were turned into teaspoons about decade ago.

I won't touch the guns, cause I'm currently a nogunz who knows jack shit about firearms.

Change the flag back to the right flag, for obvious reasons. Set a funding target for ten percent of GDP for the military.(About 360B, 1/3 of US military budget). Cut welfare and pensions if needed. This is where the funding for the army will continue from. Restore the monarchy, have some designers work on new Prussian-style uniforms. Bring back a regimental system where all recruits are recruited from a specific area to improve morale and espirit de corps. Ban women from the military, enforce limited 1 year conscription for males. Autists can go to uni for free in exchange for a guaranteed time as a research scientist. If they already can go for free, pay them to go to uni. Ask Boeing for a F-15EX or whatever they call it to serve as an interim fighter while we attempt to bring back the aircraft industry to Germany. Introduce massive tax waivers for large families, decreasing more with every child the family has. Leave the EU, strip center right and left wing EU politicians of their citizenship, rendering them stateless people. Have public trails (and executions) for all living former and current politicians. Kick out all economic migrants, and evaluate the citizenship of any non-ethnic Germans on a case-by-case basis. End public education and use the money to prop up charter schools for the kiddos. Obviously, don't enforce any prior weapons laws. Start agitating Poland and Russia for land lost in WW2. Maybe make some deal with Poland where we will support their claim to Kresy Wschondie in exchange for the Ostmark?

I say attempt to because once the aerospace industry leaves for another country (read: america) it will never come back. For other examples, look at the UK and Italy. Japan seems to be doing alright though, so I might be wrong.

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No, that is wrong. I’d rather we bough Wright brothers’ planes over the pile of horse shit with wings that is the F-35.

Who is we? Canada or Germany? Neither have F-35s. Either way, is right. I know the anti-F-35 autism brigade is coming after me soon, but it can be an interim fighter until Germany can, if ever, rebuild it's aircraft industry. The typhoon is okay, for it's mission set, but the F-35 is better.

This is a joke, right?

I agree until the territory part. Borders should be defined by the people that live there. There was constant warfare between Germans and Slavs because holy fuck did the German people expand.Borders eventually began to catch up with them. However since WW2 these areas have a statistically insignificant German population. Rather unfortunate how it happened, but it's the reality now.

Similarly how there isn't a population based claim to Ostmark for Germany, Poland doesn't have one to the Kresy anymore, as the Ukrainians made sure to in the most brutal, disgusting, and psychopathic torture to death of entire populations, oh God it was disgusting reading the accounts, holhols are literal niggers when it comes to how brutal they can be, just genocide them and partition their land between the surrounding euro nations kill all the Poles during the genocide of Wołyn in the 1940s.

As such the borders are fine as they are, unless you intend to displace people to maintain homogeneity, or accept that the other nation will have a claim to the land because of the population that lives there. Neither will lead to European cooperation which is needed considering the threats[/spoiler' and will lead to meaningless infighting, ripe for D&C. Plus, the borders now follow rivers and other natural formations, and are pretty aesthetically pleasing [spoiler]except the balkans, god damn populations should be exchanged to make nicer borders and decrease ethnic tensions like the Greeks and Turks did in the Treaty of Lausanne

Not every threat to a tank during the cold war is a tandem HEAT charge. As I stated before, being protected against even just WW2 surplus which adversary states like the DDR had a massive number of is better than being so light that nearly everything can go through. If you are making a vehicle that's only supposed to be .50 cal or shell proof you should make it wheeled and out of aluminum. Not this half assed thing where you make it out of so little RHA that it has virtually no chance of stopping anything bigger than a WW2 era 37mm.

Yes, it was a fucking joke making fun of all the posts made by slavaboos in this thread that think becoming Russia's bitch and completely dependent on them for defense is somehow an improvement over being America's bitch and completely dependent on them for defense.

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What is the source of most of their Leopard 1 being sold off or scrapped?

Most news just say they are in storage and waiting for resale.

*shell splinter proof gah.

An upgraded Tornado with EJ200s would still be better than the F-35 in most AsF roles.

wew that cholesterol really damaged your brain hm?

During the early cold war era where the centurion, M48 and Leopard 1 were modern in, yes its not beyond the realm of possibility of T-34s being used en mass as the east bloc had a lot of them and had already used them in Korea. Having a bit of steel armor also helps in situations where your vehicle is parked in a dug in position or behind a hull high wall where an incoming kinetic penetrator shell will be slowed enough by the barrier to be safely stopped by the armor. And seeing that WW3 was largely accepted to be a defensive war, the use of such cover is a safe bet to make which the Leopard 1 cannot take advantage of because of its armor being so thin that a shell could go through the wall of a nuclear containment vessel and still have enough energy to punch a hole in it.
There are times where light armor is acceptable to have, but on an MBT is just retarded.

That's wrong.

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ok, whatever delusions help you sleep at night.

Luftwaffe needs replacement for Tornado. A ground attack plane for them. F-35 is better ground attack plane than Typhoon. Since FCAS is long time away, F-35 would make perfect sense for them. Economic factors and the fact that Typhoon is mostly domestic product is the reason that most likely stopgap replacement for Tornado will be another batch of Typhoons.

Common sense. They sold off most of their Leopard 2's. They sold a lot of 'em to Turkey and Greece in 1990's, mostly to replace M47's and older M48's. Keeping stuff in storage depots isn't free and tanks in storage need periodic maintenance. The problem with reselling Leopard 1's and especially for German Leopard 1's a bit of disconnect between sellers and buyers. Third world countries that would like to buy 'em are involved in internal conflicts and German politicians have huge issues with bullshit like human rights. Germans aren't only ones with Leopard 1's to sell. Italians had lots of those.

What is point where they scrap a tank? The point where they have cannibalized it for spares to keep remaining Leopard 1's running. Specialist variants that remained in service longer than baseline tanks. Engineering vehicles and so on. If we look at stuff Bundeswehr procured in late 90's and early 2000's, they decided to modify handful of M48's to recovery vehicles. At the time when they were already surplussing Leopard 2's. In hind sight they should have reduced number base vehicles for simpler and cheaper logistics. My spider sense tingles… probably that M48 conversion was in works for a long time and just progressed with force of bureaucratic inertia for long time after it made any sense.

Tornado production line hasn't existed for a twenty years. A lot of production tooling have been modified to Typhoon production.

I can't believe we're having the Tiger debate again.
Tanks used as emplaced guns lose all their effectiveness.
But I guess you gotta try and defend that centurion 'muh first good British tank' somehow. The M48 wasn't even that well armored but still underpowered. Mobility is the tank's main reason of existence. If you just use them as METAL BAWKSES, you'll get outmanoeuvred and eventually destroyed. Just look at the Saudis. They managed to get every single modern MBT destroyed by some ragheads with RPGs.
If you think about the Soviet tanks which were usually well armored and armed but had terrible sights and coordination, mobility becomes even more important.
And don't forget the IS-3s and T-10s which would have just dabbed on any tank head to head. The cold war was dominated by weird and untested ideas and thank Christ we never had to see them get tested. But I firmly believe in mobility when it comes to tanks.

PS: the typhoon a shit
The only aspect in which is superior to the Rafale is the engines. IMO EU cucks should stop trying to shill for the airframe and focus on selling its consortium-made-and-totally-not-RollsRoyce-alone powerplant as a competitor to the GE F414 and similarly sized engines for the Gripen-E and retrofitting older aircraft.

Not saying that they should produce more of that quasi-failure equivalent of the F-111, just pointing out that by thumb rule airframes have a longer lifespan than engines and that retrofitting a good engine would solve one of the Tornado's main problems, which was being underpowered. With nominal thrust values the EJ200 would theoretically allow the Tornado to supercruise at sea level inb4 "non-afterburning turbofans don't work that way retard!".

We all miss him, user, but he's gone now. Shaking fits and pants of shit is the reality of your government today. I can't imagine what good you could expect of H&K being acquired under such.

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I believe Trudeau has begun the process of buying F-35s despite campaigning against them.

And while I am no pilot nor aerospace engineer it seems the F-35 has so many drawbacks that it’s capabilities cannot overlook it’s absurd overheating issues, and suicide seat. Though I honestly do not know what it’s combat capabilities are.

So population exchange, western Poles move eastwards giving up, or selling their land in exchange for free or very cheap land in eastern Poland once the area is recaptured. Likewise the remaining Germans in Poland are forcibly moved into now eastern Germany of they do not fall into those borders anyways, and Germany’s are either given back historical family land (which seems like a logistic and legal nightmare) or incentivized to move east as many new jobs will be created to re-Germanize the area.

This is of course a pipedream and I would be happy with a German-Austrian-Luxembourg-Eupen-Malmedy-maybe Lichtenstein integration. And splitting of Belgium between the Netherlands and France maybe in exchange for Elßas?

My bad, I was thinking about Poland and Germany's borders. The point still stands that currently it's rather an aesthetic map except the Yugoslav region

That would be unnecessary and a logistical quagmire. There are other populations you should be focusing on moving around mainly out of Europe. Tell you what, considering the holhols are useless shits that are only good for torturous genocide living in a low density nation, they can move to a small dense region of southern Ukraine and the rest can be split up between neighboring nations. Maybe Germany can have a strip of land for farm larping. But that is also, a pipe dream.

not him, but modern borders are too straight, look disgustingly artificial and were drawn by commies, no less. Older borders are subtle, curved, defined by mountain ranges and where people have lived for hundreds of years.

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I want the eastern german border to look like a dragon opening its maw to eat Poland again.

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thats wrong though. plus it's a maintenance nightmare and has super-low sortie rate because of it's super-high-maintenance-times.

What do people not check dubs anymore?

In my opinion, you're thinking too much about the past. The present is where we operate, and the future is why we act. While remembering the past is important, the future doubly so. Also, where people lived for hundreds of years is nice, but are you willing to screw over tens of millions now?

I always thought the narrow section where the Czech Republic juts up made the 2nd Reich look retarded. It looks more natural with the river boundary now.


It's about 100 years too late a großdeutsche Lösung, buddy.
Just have look at Görlitz, which was split asunder into a German half and a Polish half. The German half is probably the prettiest town in all of Saxony, the Polish half looks like 1991 post-comblock depression.
Losing Silesia, Pomerania West- and East Prussia wouldn't have been as bad if they had actually given it to people who would do more than letting it all fall into ruin. That's the real tragedy.

You mean the kingdom of Bohemia? Because that's what it was during the 2nd Reich, the HRE. It looked like a nice old blob, though.

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Mein gott, ich ist a drache!

Let's scrap the 140 eurofighter on standby and buy Su-57 from Russia (which they have less than 100 WORLDWIDE!).

Mein gott!

1st Reich - HRE.
2nd Reich - German Empire.

The OG Roman Empire is not considered a German Reich.


Actually last time I was in Germany I visited Görlitz. The German side was nice (though a few abandoned run down buildings) and there was active repair work being done on gothic style buildings. I crossed the border and the Polish side was run down and a few new buildings were having their bases poured but there was no repair work being done and much of the buildings were awful looking. Though I didn’t go very deep into the Polish part because after only 20 minutes I wanted to go back over the river but it took me another 25 minutes to find another bridge.
I just cannot see Germany getting her land back, Austrian unification seems much Moreno plausible and even that seems like it’s a near impossibility, though the FPÖ seems to at least give lip service to pan-German ideas.

Posen is rightful Polish clay though. Silesia, Hinterpommern, Pomerellen, Preußen, and Memelland should be German though, just as northern Schleswig is pretty rightfully Danish Elßas-Lothringen was German until Napoleon started Frenchifying them (and the bretons, Normans, ect.) Switzerland is a mystery for me though, I can’t say what should be done with it in an ideal Europe, if anything.

Please refrain from expressing an opinion and if possible also breathing.

Posen I can accept ceding to Poland but Westpreußen and Schlesien with Kattowitz are rightful German clay as is the Memelland.
Switzerland should just stay as is unless they abandon their tribal democracy in favor of republican judaism, Südtirol is rightful Austrian clay and Elsass-Lothringen should be its own country or join Switzerland for the hell of it.
Belgium should be dissolved and split up between France, Germany and the Netherlands though as their faggotry has long surpassed safe limits.
Also have the UK cede norn Iron to Ireland, seriously what's the point of that enclave besides causing more unneeded conflicts among white men. Gibraltar should go to Spain, it's not like the British have much of a Navy or Empire left in this day and age.

Is a 10mph top speed difference really worth being vulnerable to getting perforated by literally every AT weapon short of an AT rifle? I know that in the fight between gun and armor, gun usually wins out, but that doesn't mean that you can't deal the enemy virtual attrition by making stockpiled weapons obsolete and toothless against new hardware like what the soviet parade pieces sought to do.
The Saudis and really any sand nigger are idiots and wouldn't be able to win a war against African Zulu fighters when equipped with machine guns. They are also using dug in tanks against a guerrilla force that doesn't give a shit about where the "front line" is so its only to be expected that they fucking die.
Tank crews will always position their vehicle behind something and get hull down whenever possible because it works. And having armor so stupidly light for such a small mobility gain due to tracks only being able to go so fast is a dumb idea because it limits the amount of objects that go from cover to simply concealment. You are better off making the vehicle shell splinter and .50 cal proof and wheeled if you are going to be a defeatist on armor like with the Leopard 1.

As long as the people remains, the government can be changed, Merkel is old and on the way out anyway.

Anyway, small arms and uniform are the LEAST of Germany problems.

That's the point of ERA and good supporting infantries.

The point is to re-use the old Leopard 1, NOT wasting millions of making a thousand of new tanks for literally no benefits (what, war against Russia with their ALSO updated T-72?).

I really hate burgers on their mentality of OLD THING SHIT, INVEST NEW THINGS, NEW THINGS NOW! NOW!