How were the British able to bring one of the most powerful nations in the world to it's so quickly and with so few soldiers? Every book I've come across on the subject mostly focuses on how shameful it was for the British to wage two wars just to be able to sell drugs to the Chinese. The most they ever say about the conflict itself is just "the British won because they had superior firearms" but that doesn't explain much. The Chinese outnumbered the Brits 10 to 1 and were on the defensive. They still should have had the advantage.
Other urls found in this thread:
1. Corrupt leadership, China at the time was ruled by a woman regent Empress Dowager.
2. Its military is old, outdated and lacks fighting morale.
3. Opium makes people weak, addicted and lazy, this coupled with the decadent late stage feudalism.
It's crazily effective.
There is something about chinks that makes them incompetent.
One doesn't even have to be that strong, smart and white to curbstomp them by the droves
It really wasn't, it just thought it was. A large country doesn't make a powerful nation.
Their military was often medieval-tier unmotivated, unskilled peasants and heavily hampered by corruption and incompetence that basically made their artillery more useless than it already was.
Impressive numbers, but ultimately very, very shit.
The British having a superior fleet combined with China generally being a logistical nightmare of mountains and deserts made all the difference.
China is basically a series of compartmentalized regions separated by nearly impassable terrain with only a few rivers going between them. Only way the Chinese could keep their communications going were by the canal system, which had been in use since antiquity. Once the Brits sailed up the Yangtze and cut the grand canal the jig was up for the chinks.
During the second opium war the chinks were preoccupied by the greatest civil war in the 19th century.
Damn, this is worse than I thought. They'd basically built their entire navy, army, and defensive strategy around the assumption that they'd solely be doing policing actions for all of eternity.
Have the chinks ever won a war that wasn't among themselves?
That's what happens with every great empire. You can see the same thing going on with the US Army, where the average infantry unit is used as a police force wearing camouflage, and special forces are just glorified SWAT teams. The main difference is that the US Army is currently playing world police.
Yes. That's what the Chinese actually consider as "war" and even that only worked against fellow chinks when you realize how easily some of the most "successful" Chinese dynasties fell to simple barbarian marauders like mongols, manchus and even uighuroaches.
Hauntingly true. The current US-Army is a paper tiger. When, not if, they attack Iran, it's gonna be a massacre.
Inb4 the US experiences a Battle of Yalu River and several Kasserine Passes.
Underrated post. That is exactly why the Chinese will never become a superpower. The largest economy, yes, but superower, no.
They haven't changed from that path one bit.
OP steel ships with real guns and jewish subversion opium addiction.
Central states eventually go form strong to weak over time. A man can be strong because he is naturally strong, or he can be strong because he is big, or he can be extremely strong if he is both. A rising nation centered empire is often both, naturally strong from national unity and tribalism and increasingly strong as it gains resources as it expands. Once the empire loses its national focus and becomes too big, it tends to lose its natural strength of nationalism and tribalism. It loses its natural strength and only has strength through size alone. Big, weak, and only powerful because of size. Easy living and comfort, the fact that centralized governments always are corrupt and self destruct, that easy living in a rich empire erodes morality and strength naturally, and one day you have the recipe for disaster.
The Chinese are not a warrior people like Japan. Also, the endless central state empires that came to power created the endless cycle of weak systems that were easy to destroy. One weak empire would fail to a stronger newcomer, and that newcomer would often become soft and weak in a surprisingly quick fashion. Like replacing a soft pine board in a wet environment and watching it rot quickly, replacing it with a fresh pine board and then expecting this one to somehow not turn out like the last one. Between the lack of China's natural military quality, like Germanic or Japanese people for instance, combined with weak and corrupt central governments replacing each other over and over creating dynastic cycles with many long weak points and most periods being rotten and weak empires whose only strength is "its so big, too big to lose" the history practically predicts and writes itself.
China suffered under foreign rule that was hostile to the people, exploitative. If this is not enough, the very nature of central statism is the same, even if they are of the same race and ethnicity the capital is filled full of power players who are building careers and power and aren't concerned with the nation, people, empire, lands, except how to exploit and rob them for their own wealth and ladder climb. People in every central state capital risk the eventual path towards not serving their people and nation, only the capital, only the State, only factions, only power playing. The place gets taken over by people more than happy to stab people in the back and sell their entire race or homeland into slavery if they get to be the broker. One day the empire could give a flying fuck about YOU, it only gives a fuck about itself, the empire. Ironically, the lack of husbandry is its downfall, it exploits the lands and people instead of building them up, and when they weaken the people and lands they destroy their own source of power. They fall and everyone says "well, they deserved it, for being corrupt and evil fucks" and they are right.
The Commies are increasingly appearing to be just another dynasty in the cycle, are they marching towards greatness and breaking the dynastic cycle? Or are they eventually going down the same path of failed central Statism and obsessive State power? Are they going to magically fix the corruption of China's old empire, or will they succumb the same way for the same reasons? Is the central committee going to magically change the Chinese into a warrior people they never really were? Can their own internal people control and means of governing, its fear of its own military and people, even allow a powerful military or effective anything?
All of today's central States are in decline, same as always. Eventually they are all on a path to eventual ruin as the people degrade and their corrupt systems become increasingly corrupt with no way to reform without decentralizing or losing favor or power, or attacking the "swamp" or politics they fear to change, maybe losing power themselves. "But, if everyone is being subverted and destroyed, there will be no strong barbarians to conquer anyone!" is a bad line, someone will keep their strength, someone will rise up, and the wretched state of affairs will change no matter how much they try to control and prevent it. They don't understand what is going to happen.
Consider they installed an AI to track government corruption and disabled it a week later because it caught basically every low ranking official in government.
The Vietnamese kicked their asses even after decades of fighting the French and Americans.
A French user made a good post about the Sino-Vietnam war and how it was literally just the new gook dictator sending all the old guards of Mao to die in intentionally suicidal missions
Yeah, sounds about right. Nothing has changed.
By being white.
China invaded in order to save Pol Pot's regime from the gooks, which they failed at doing. Capturing some shitty mountain in the middle of nowhere isn't a victory if the ally you're attempting to save gets completely dabbed on and occupied.
Vietnamese here, they fought the Vietcong to a standstill which is why the North Vietnam remains a bitch to China to this very day.
The NV government "heroically" negotiated and signed some secret treaties with China that nobody knows wtf was written in them and normal citizens isn't allowed to ask because "national secrets, plebs". People who asked got gulag'd pretty quickly.
People need to look at posts with a bit more of a fucking bullshit detector instead of seeing a lot of text and assuming its right.
Still on the tactical level you still raped the chinks.
When have the chinks ever outnumbered foreign opponents 10 to 1 and not either lost miserably or suffered disproportionate losses compared to their adversary?
Modern China is culturally homogenous, and coming second place in the race to control the moon. No amount of white supremacist sophistry will undo that.
Confirmed for here to shit up the thread
go back to your shithole country chang
Then why are you in a White man made country, wong?
This is fact. Every race, tribe, ethnicity, government, State, all of them have their apologists somewhere. Beyond propaganda there are people who really do believe and pathologically make excuses for everyone, that's just the way things have always been. You can like Rome and still get disgusted with some of the people who say stupid shit like "if they would have won that campaign in North Africa and gotten those provinces back, the western empire would have totally gotten the money to recover and come back to its former glory in the end stage as they were over run by barbarians".
So, with propaganda and these apologists, which are universal, you get this shit a lot. "Ha, this embarrassing Chinese defeat was a tactical cunning victory!" or "they never intended on winning, they were sacrificing men on purpose as a cunning strategy" or whatever horseshit fits the pro-X apologist narrative. China's bad military history, even the modern stuff, is just papered up with excuses. Not surprising.
Holy fuck kids, the trolls aren't even trying very hard nowadays.
I'm not being a fucking apologist you sperg
And Carthage came second in the race to control the Mediterranean.
I was agreeing with you, not contradicting you.
He's not exactly wrong. That "Han" are currently doing their best to assimilate into their altaic mongrelization every Sino-Tibetan ethnicity including the real chinks (which current ethnicity that is I can't remember, some user here or in Zig Forums posted a jewtube link of them singing traditional chinese poetry and they it was so melodic and fitting it finally made sense why the "Han" seem to be struggling to speak their "own" language).
She didn't even lived in 18th century.
the Opium Wars were in the 19th century.
Gotta remove all the unequals to create national ethnic equality.
Well, once they're done they'll accomplish unity.
The Han control a quarter of the landmass, do you know what "homogenous" means?
China didn't even know the moon existed until white people told them about it.
Northern China is different than Southern China.
That's wrong too.
Elaborate please. If anywhere near true that would be hillarious.
I exaggerate, but when was the last time you heard the Chinese brag about something that wasn't a direct imitation of something white people did?
they have two different concepts of the moon because the mythical version of the moon is different from the physical version, they somehow still believe in their traditional pagan religion even though none of it makes sense given modern knowledge.
That makes no sense or whatsoever, what are you talking about?
China, like most east eastern culture, sees and acknowledges the moon.
Could you tell us about the mythical version?
Why can't every large Empire follow the Swiss model of cooperative Tribal isolationism?
First of all, Switzerland isn't exactly a classic empire like the Chinese, Persian or Roman. As far as I understand, the Swiss first chased away everyone tell didn't like from their mountains, then collectively decided to leave each other alone as much as possible. These great empires are born because a group of people starts conquering other groups, and then the conquered eventually join the conquerors and go on conquering even more. Of course they eventually hit a limit. Still, this process requires a strong central state (although a primitive one works quite well, as long as it makes up for the primitiveness with even more strenght), and with a strong central state you can't have the Swiss model.
And then the fate of the empire is sealed by miscegenation.
First Canadian Real Estate War.
My Germanic brother, I wish for the same thing. Things were better off when we had many kingdoms, duchies, principalities. That we lived so well and had geo political balance because the various powers tended to fight for balance, that the local nobility spent their time running their fiefs instead of trying to conquer the world. That the men of the peaceful hills and valleys, the pastures in the mountains, could live that peaceful life, instead of being mobilized by one side or another to conquer the world.
Dig up that faggot Bismark and ask him. He fucked up a lot of things. The Holy Roman Empire was better than uniting Germany in retrospect.
Bismark unites the various states back into Germany after the HRE was ended by Napoleon, retard.
lol thats EU now
The combined Europe Navy is still better than the chink's brown water navy.
Navy means jackshit anyway. For all the huffpuffing of chink navy, they can't do shit to VIetnam and pinoy mainland.
EU navy is mostly brown water diesel subs, corvettes and barely blue water frigates.
Carriers, cruisers, destroyers and nuclear subs can barely make one fleet put together.
But I was talking mostly about their army. Not counting stat boosters like Poland, all of EU has maybe 3000 Main Battle Tanks of which a low percentage is combat capable and most require months of refit before operational status. 90% of their armored vehicles are wheeled, over 100k of them, clearly meant for street to street policing and state terrorism. EU military basically exists to bully tiny countries into staying in the union.
And it's still better than what the chinks have, currently. Chinks by now 2019 are still paper tigers and rely on Russia to project their strength while providing materiel support.
But in the future, I cannot say if europeans do not wake up.
Not your "brother", mutt.
Maybe it doesn't exist in Vietnamese. The mythical / cultural term for Moon in Chinese is 月亮 (month-light) and the scientific term is 月球 (month-globe). The moon landing would be the landing on the latter and not on the former because that would imply that you landed in the mythical land where the moon goddess lives with her pet rabbit which the Chinese worship with cakes every autumn during the Moon Festival.
in case you think they were pulled from my ass:
That's strange, moonlight literally means the light from the moon, it doesn't mean the celestial body that is the moon didn't exist.
I mean, there is various chinese myth of beautiful goddess Chang E/Heng E living on the moon with the jade rabbit.
Because the brits had iron-clad steam ships with enough guns loaded on each one to equal an entire fleet of junks not to mention rifled weapons and motherfucking rockets. Meanwhile the chinks were still using copies of copies of firearms they had bought over a hundred years ago and ships designed I fuck you not 2000 years ago.
When you have ships that are immune to enemy fire, can destroy enemy ships in seconds and can move many times faster its not hard to see how they cleaned up.
I especially like the
part. Peasants were pretty often conscripted to run off and fight wars that were hundreds of miles away from their homes.
I wonder if he genuinely believes it was all heavily armored knights and nobility slapping each other with swords that fought medieval wars and not mostly ignorant farmers getting shot in the face with arrows or impaled on pikes.
Not to mention the only thing that has ever kept nations from attempting to expand and make their own empires is lack of resources, because otherwise throughout the vast majority of human history people have had zero qualms about conquering as much land as tehy possibly could.
Given that Chinese Navy pilots with J-11 lost 9/1 against freaking turkroach F-4s in Red Flags I think our Navy alone woud suffice to sink their entire fleet.
There was conscription, but nowhere near the levels the central states ever did, which is the point. When kings had to raise their armies from the nobles underneath them, their forces were limited and their ability to gather enough resources and manpower for major conquering was limited, and it lead to less conscription and more reliance on knights, professional soldiers and retainers, as well as mercenaries. Feudal states conscripted fewer men, relied on real warriors and soldiers, fought much more limited wars. The few serfs you might pick up for peasant levy in that system cannot be compared to the massive peasant levy systems of mass, mass conscription of central States and especially modern systems.
Also, the old peasant levy might be used more for labor and baggage trains, when they did fight they were expected to break and run with little discipline, they were placeholders and number buffers for the real center of the military force, which was the heavy infantry and cavalry. Today the conscript IS the center of the army. Two world wars show that there isn't going to be a few serfs conscripted to fight some limited war next time, instead the entire generation of men will be drawn and in purposely thrown into a suicide "throw em at the wall and see what sticks" strategy.
Oh, haven't you heard? Modern States are preparing to add women to the draft! So, at least the old system might draw up a few serfs, but the new system won't just draw every man of a wide age range to die in a worthless war, they will now do the great act of killing off the child bearing women!
Say, how well is that German Republic keeping you safe from foreign invaders overrunning Germany? I hear if you keep worshiping the State and pray to Otto von Bismark, the refugees will assimilate faster!
And guess what happened when the Kingdom of Hungary with this feudal system had to fight against the Ottoman Empire that could just drow our armies with superior numbers?
The dude's clearly retarded.
I wish this fucking country would balkanize so I can either die, or live long enough to have a different flag to associate with.
I don't know user, you tell me?
All the world's problems are very easy to fix, people just don't want to acknowledge the answers that are right in front of them.
Yet decentralized Germany, the broken into a million independent states Holy Roman Empire that was a central power only in name and theory, managed to stop the Ottomans. Not a centralized empire. Can you blame all of Hungary's losses on centralism and decentralism? What about the armies the Turk's beat into the ground that were made of large armies of more average warriors?
Make note, this is not an endorsement of the chinks, but an acknowledgment of how Europe as a whole has fallen. Can anyone here seriously claim that the likes of modern France, England or Germany have the capacity to go to war, let alone the stomach for it?
The more economically powerful the European nations became, the more capable they were of fielding standing armies of paid professionals - and the less they had to rely on knights and peasant levies to fight. At one point you had nobles buying whole batches of plate armor to equip thousands of troops with.
Germany's current woes have nothing to do with centralization and everything to do with Jews and their traitorous allies.
That's because the core of the Holy Alliance the Habsburg Monarchy that was basically Austria and Czechia (which was quite lot more German in those days) run under a single centralized state with the resources to supply the armies that did the fighting. And by the 17th century the Ottomans relied on woefully outdated tactics and equipment, and Europeans also became better at mobilizing greater armies, therefore the Turks were throughly beaten as they had nothing in their favour.
Say what you will about middle ages, bur I found it endlessly amusing when some English king called upon his subjects to muster for yet another fucking campaign, instead of thousands showing up, only few dozen knights and sergeants showed up. People had enough of king's retarded campaigns and simply did not show up, instead preferring to attend to their flocks and fields.
And my golly, the concept of lords waging war against other lords over people and resources is vastly more preferable to this fucking retarded concept of whole peoples being dragged to war to fight over some piece of paper or idea.
You are full of shit and you have no idea what you are even talking about.
What does Otto von Bismarck have to do with the Republic of Germany?
This faggot cuck man.
inb4 China stronk
Well yeah, because you shouldn't belief modern lies about the Holy Roman Empire told for political convenience.
Its was an Empire that lasted a thousand years and already the first Emperor Charles I the Great, had to deal with Muslims.
Ignoring two short reining exception the house of Habsburg continuously held the title of Holy Roman Emperor since 1415.
The only kind of reply your kind deserve is "mutt".
That's why I'm a staunch royalist, 100% monarchy or go home.
Fuck democracy, fuck republics, fuck fascism, fuck communism, fuck everything. Monarchy is the only governmental system that survived longer than a few centuries, hell monarchies survived so long that humans have evolved to exist in a monarchy.
Race mixing isn't a problem as much as civilization mixing is.
Dead civilizations can be raped into inexistence as long as the one doing the raping is still alive (i.e. is capable of both self-defense and has a desire to expand)
You try and create a functional society out of mulattoes and halfcastes and let me know how that goes. Sure didn't go well for India.
You can survive a cultural change, you can't survive genetic degradation. Human capital is the most important thing you have, once you have destroyed it its all over. The European races can suffer this neo liberal bullshit for a while, then eventually find its way back to strong old culture again and come back to greatness. It cannot survive being turned into genetic garbage and becoming a mixed race mud hole, it will then become a backwards wasteland forever and ever.
"traditional Chinese medicine" is ALL pure BS.
Opium works, at least for its purpose.
It would be like if we never had ANY electronics and then a Best Buy opened up downtown. No one is gonna listen to "dangers of cell phone addiction". They just gonna want some.
Speaking from experience as an american?
India died and was overtaken by a sickly-brown, more primitive "civilization".
Please have a mulatto kid who hates you and keep your fetish to your self. You dont need to destroy civilization for everyone else for muh dick.
They are low IQ compared to Whites. I know, I know all about the supposed 'IQ' testing but anyone who has worked, lived or been around bug people for any length of time knows that all they do is cheat at everything they put their hand to. There is not way that they are as high IQ as Whites and they are probably considerably lower, like in the mid 70's range based on historic genetic evidence.
Go to war?
You mean leave their little children, women and young daughters in the hands of raping shitskins while they went off to fight for the globalists? That would be almost as insane as if Americans did the same thing and left their most precious thing on the planet; their DNA and heritage in the hands a spic and the open borders trash to 'go fight wars' for the globalists as well.
There would be nothing left for them to come home to, their children would have been kidnapped raped or killed and sold and their wives would have been raped, killed or enslaved in another part of the world.
The Chinese government only allows university students to take the IQ tests that they publish as their "national average". All the millions of 60IQ farmer peasants are never allowed to take the tests to drag the average down.
Even their university students are not high IQ compared to 'average' Europeans. They are filtering out all the low IQ people but their best 'average' is not as high as just our normal average. If we didn't have invading hordes of subhuman trash in our nations we would be far superior to them in testing but you can't handicap us with people who have an IQ of 53 and expect that civilization (in any form) will continue, let alone be reflected in 'competitive IQ testing'. Civilization is a product of generational IQ and ability to sacrifice to reach a goal. Subhuman trash does not have this ability, this is why they have never formed any real or substantially worthwhile civilizations in the past. Most of the 'famous ruins' and other evidence for great civilizations came from people that they murdered and cannibalized the civilization AFTER they invaded. Otherwise the ability to build and sustain a civilization would be an integral part of their DNA, and it is not.
Oh yes all those indo-europeans just disappeared then a bunch of muds came out of islands to the south and replaced them. They totally didn't interbreed with them and form the shitty people known today as the modern Indian.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The modern Indian is a mix of several different races and they're shit. The caste system differentiates by whiteness because it's directly correlated with your intellectual worth.