*Inspired by the 'Rebuilding modern Germany' thread.
You have the 2019 budget of the Polish military at your disposal(45.38 billion PLN/$11.971 billion USD).
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to rebuild the Polish military into a world-class combat force capable of going toe to toe with any other military in the world and winning. How do you go about this?
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Use the entire budget to spike the mess hall wodka and pea soup with amphetamines, then point the entire army in the direction of whatever needs to get HUSSARED at the moment.
...
Get rid of half of population, download brains of the few engineers who are still alive into text format, wait for a generation for reformed high school graduates to not be mentally crippled by the system so someone can take the old engineering knowledge and improve on it
>start a super secret nuclear program to develop the famous israeli schrodinger's nukes
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that the vast majority of Polish equipment is already made in Poland. Still no reason not to further expand it, though.
I don't buy anything, and give all the money straight to Israel since they're our greatest allies and because muh polish death camps. :^)
Realistically speaking, the most urgent and efficient thing polans should consider with their budgets is focusing on the wheeled artillery systems instead of shit like that 155mm Krab with ~30 pieces manufactured in almost 30 years and on the reactive artillery. Aside from that they're doing passably.
This isn't how military budgets work.
Service to the homeland is a reward, tovarisch.
It's already capable of curbstomping Germany. In fact Visegrad group, if aided by Serbia, has more tanks than the EU military (combined force of all other EU member states).
Polans are using this idea already with their National Guard lol.
Unfortunately a lot of out tank corps are outdated T-55 with some upgraded variants,some legacy M-84 and a very few modern tank such as modernized M-84AS ( around 10 ;_; )
So that's around 210-225 tanks total.
Still,I IIRC we got the most tanks in Balkans.
We have 170 Leopard 2A6s (HEL variant, which has slightly increased protection)
183 Leopard 2A4s, 500 1A5s and 400 M48A5 MOLF.
Yeah, I should have made it clear to exclude you guys. I meant it as a potential threats to us, a.k.a neighboring countries.
You guys are so far ahead in equipment it's given.
No worries. We also vastly outtank every other EUcuck minus Poland with which we are roughly equal.
I do also
Well, you kinda have to, given how you're at a forefront of roach containment. Unleash your inner Manolis Bikakis strelok.
Wait, so Greek streloks aren't just larping when they say they'll remove roach as soon as burgerstan falls apart.
Greece has a lovely military.
Let us do our part then, fellow burger. This is only for theoretical purposes, Mr. CIA-nigger. I would never ever engage in any activities that would harm the American people.
No of course not. I in no way, shape, or form advocate violence or conspiracies to commit it. Not even in minecraft :^)
The only real problem with our military is the ridiculous lack of funding plus incompetent government. With every year that goes by, our military is less and less impressive because we're sitting on our asses while everyone else buys cool new stuff and we don't.
With a competent government we could piss easily be in the top 10 military powers worldwide.
I typed all this out already, but it was too long and so it got deleted. I'll try again.
After looking at Poland's industrial and technological capabilities, as well as its current economic state,
Nobody in his right mind would want to return
A civcuck and either a retard or a jewish shill
>I'm going to panhandle for pre-parition borders because baste Wilson and (((league of nation))) will help peacekeeping them, everyone will just give the land away with no questions asked
>everyone around who's relevant is fascist but this one faggot is trying to play democracy in a country where one third of population isn't ethnically Polish and A QUARTER of the population doesn't speak the administrative language
>lmao fuck the eastern borderlands, who gives a shit, they're poor and underdeveloped, and you can steal land from Prussia instead ask wilson and league of nations to steal Prussian land for you because Polish Military is in shambles since nobody builds arms factories in hostile territory.
Yeah, and it's all gone now due to collapse of PGR's and greedy farmers taking EU subsidies to destroy the soil and crops with MUH RAPESEED FIELDS, NOTHING BUT RAPE AS FAR AS EYE CAN SEE
Yet again - this isn't how military budgets work.
Don't tell anyone but we are also lacking in private (conscript) quality and quantity but at least they are still on average at 6 points higher IQ than the roach equivalents.
...
Continued! Now that we've established the basis for having the money and industry and labor force to pull off an actual return of the winged hussars, lets go step by step.
~Ground Forces~
Poland's greatest strength and potential, and easiest to upgrade.
Just get more. Begin with Hungary-style military themed summer camps. Move onto useless PE being replaced by classes that are practically mini- Hitler youth training, complete with unarmed combat and military level fitness training. Propaganda, a reinvigorated national spirit, and a pride in a blooming Poland should get you lots of fit recruits. Sort them into their best roles, while the smart stemfags go into R&D, and the weakfags go into manufacturing. Women of course go into support roles in the back lines, into the workforce, and most importantly to creating a strong stable household. Don't tax the young too hard so they can start having kids.
This is self explanatory, if it isn't you're the one who needs to do some thinking, not me.
Modernize with Pencott Wildwood, Plate carriers, better helmets, modern comms, MSBS, optics, etc. Poland currently wields a cluster fuck of personal equipment, standardize that shit with home designed home built models. They have at least one of everything Polish made to fill this.
Spam out Rosomak XP (liscence built Patria AMV XP) with Slovakian Torra 30 unmanned turrets. Strap on a few ATGMs (liscence built Kornets would be fine). Throw out the old Soviet shit, the clusterfuck of random shit, abandon acquisition programs. Borsuk IFV might finally be a thing, but unnecessary,a Rosomak APC that's uparmored to an IFV would help with production and maintenance. Recon vehicles, command, ambulances, etc should all be on the Rosomak XP type. Just keep building up a stockpile.
This is also important once we analyze Poland's armor capabilities. Squads have liscence built RPG-28/29, and platoons have Kornet ATGMs (liscenced as well for home industry).
This will be important when we analyze the Air Force. Equip each squad with PIORUNS, and each platoon (or at worst company) with Poprads. Move up to Battalion level and Noteć SPAAG should be appearing in force, as well as SRSAM Narew (if these turn out to be good, if they're shit then replace with Tunguska or Pantsyr and Tor, respectively. Brigades should see Liscence produced (or worse case scenario imported) S-400s. Fuck the Patriot batteries.
Poland doesn't have the experience designing these, but has the industry to build them. Also why would the Germans give Poland free tanks? Are they bugged? Kill switches? These are always a possibility. So Poland would have to develop something, and if not then keep upgrading their current fleet, but put more emphasis on small unit, highly mobile ATGMs. Tanks should ideally be supported by a BMPT-terminator type vehicle. Likely a Uparmored Rosomak with grenade launchers to add to its standard 30mm Torra turret.
Logistics, repair, recovery, etc etc etc. don't make me write this shit out. You get the idea. Similar vehicles and chassis for production efficiency and maintenance and smoothing logistics.
That's a pretty awkward effort to ignore the fact you have zero knowledge about military funding. But go ahead, write here your exact plan with all the numbers, amount of time required and tech. We wanna see it.
POO ON HORSE
I'll address the haters and the cheeky German later.
~Air Force~ (please don't cross it out)
This is an important asset, but Poland is severely lacking.
Poland doesn't have much of its own, however it has MI24s and home built utility helicopters. They have two options. Go full South Africa, take an outdated heli and upgrade it to a point it's unrecognizable and very potent, or liscence build something. The former would require techfags and industryfags working together to set up an attack helicopter industry. While harder and longer (giggity) it would provide more security from bugging and kill switches, and stimulate polish economy more. License building MI-35s and MI-28s would be quicker, but can they really trust the Russians? more than they can trust weimerica and our greatest ally
Just buy Gripens and upgrade Mig-29s to Mig-35s ffs. Cheap, reliable, sturdy, huge fleet with this option. Not entirely safe, but aircraft design is apparently hard nowadays. This would be safeguarded against by a large air defense net. If both are compromised I think you've got a lot of other problems to think about.
barrel bombs duuuhhh Gripens can do this.
obviously upgrade MI-24s to MI-35MVs and have a bunch. Air cavalry and Wagner oy vey is required for a modern nation. Transport props will either need to be bought or Poland will have to really crank its industry up. (Which we hopefully accounted for, right?)
Once again my laziness wins out
Liscence built ZT-6 Mokopas, because I'll be damned if some bastard genocidal africans are the only ones to use this beautiful missile developed by Denel. Once again Poland doesn't have a missile manufacturing base, so Iris-T, MDBA Meteors, or maybe Russian missiles. The American missiles are outclassed and obsolete nowadays. Hopefully the foreign designs are a temporary stopgap measure while the stemfags and industryfags get their shit together and make proper weaponry.
Why do mutts get so butthurt when ethnically pure people start talking?
It would be funny if the Turk also labeled the Polacke's post as d&c.
This is rach/kikey level of retardation.
LEL, Sounds like your Mongoloid half is getting agitated, as mutts tend to do. Here, have a meme of your people, and calm down a bit, eh?
...
...
It is alright, ahmed. Chan culture is as foreign to you as European things are.
Ill self check this I guess
~Navy~
Ok we're starting from scratch here. Literally. Poland has as much naval history as Austria, no, less, I forgot Austria had sea access in the past. Poland has experience building one modern frigate, and its shit. No home designed or built anti ship missiles, and a small dockyard capability as well. Add to that geography, and there aren't a shit tons of natural harbors to build ports in. I have to be a little clever here.
We'll focus mainly on smaller craft, with different production locations. The main Gdańsk and Szczecin shipbuilders will focus on Frigates, Kołobrzeg Gdynia and Sopot on Corvettes, and smaller locations on smaller boats. Inland areas mainly in the northeast (with lots of undeveloped land and unemployed people) will manufacture a lot of the engines, radars, munitions, and interior aspects of the ships that can be shipped to the coast for installation. While home designs are created, I'd have to go with listened built foreign models. We need small ships that pack firepower out of every nook and cranny. Looking at the Baden-Wurtenburg class, LCS, etc, these are big and have limited firepower. The Russians however… those are some BS armaments they manage to jam onto their ships.
Admiral Gorshkov class. Look at its armaments and size. Need I say more? Even Poland can produce these. Maybe a fleet of 4-8 can be fielded.
Gremyashchiy-class corvette. Same as above, but we can have a few more. A dozen, maybe two dozen? If the industry and economy can manage (as a unkiked properly managed economy should) even 3 dozen can be patrolling, training, maintaining, and refitting.
Buyan-M class "corvettes" they're not even 600 tons, they're practically river patrol boats that carry a Pantsyr-S, 8 anti ship missiles, and 8 Manpads. While laws say that such ''powerful" missiles can't be land based, these buggers can be swam up a river and hide inside Poland. Spam these until these become household items. That reminds me…
Just like those evil gun grabbing nazis did in real life, make guns readily available for Poles as part of the 2A, witcher edition. The burgers will be seething.
The biggest problem. No one friendly or reliable has good ones. No good ones won't be bugged with kill switches. Ideally a type 212a, but maybe the swedes will help once again with Blekinge class subs. I don't have a good answer for this, but subs would be used to help prevent a naval invasion.
Support ships.
Standardize, home produce, blah blah you know the deal by now
Did you mean imageboard culture, you cock-sucking reddit nigger?
~other considerations~
Greatly expand these cooldudes(tm), redpill them, and put them to work
Ok these larding faggots are a good and bad idea. They're not trained or equipped enough to be part of the regular army, while a guerilla war simply won't work in Poland. So I propose something crazy. Make the reserves and the territorial defense force one thing. Yup. Have these be hundreds of thousands if not a million strong. Every Saturday train cqc, every month go on a 4-5 day platoon/company size maneuvers, every year go on a month long grand scale military exercise with the regular army, fully incorporated. Give them the same gear and whatnot as the regulars. Regular boots require the least training to do their jobs, so during peace time a huge contingent of officers, EW, airborne, Air Force, special weapons operators, techies, NBCR, can be trained to proficiency, as well as a smaller (but still potent) front line. The moment someone starts posturing, start calling up the reservists/territorial guard. They should only require minimal military training at this point. Add to that a bunch of smartfags civvies to do their job, but now play with military computers and toys, and you can start to double, triple, quadruple your force. I believe the German Wehrmacht had a similar concept before ww2 where upon mobilization units would be sent to hold the front, while others would literally undergo mitosis over and over again to produce a huge response army. Of course this will require a huge stockpile of weapons, vehicles, etc. each man brings his uniform and guns with him, like the Swiss.
Schrodinger's nukes. A secret fuck you if conventional forces fail.
Well lads I lurked for two years, this is my first try. I'll now address anyone's concerns, beginning with the ones already posted.
My good sir most of them left because of a shit economy, no? So as I explained in the first post if the economy becomes something to be proud of, and a shortage of workers is created, many will want to return. I remember reading an article no I won't spoon feed it to you I'm too lazy to go and find it again that interviewed returning Poles, most of the younger ones, regardless of skill level or occupation or previous political leanings were disillusioned with western nations and wanted to stay in Poland upon their return. Their one gripe was the economy. Why not take back the diaspora? It's an obvious brain drain and unskilled laborer drain. Or are you saying you'd rather import Ukrainians to do menial or physical labor?
Sir it was Józef Piłsudski who advocated for a multicultural Poland like the days of old. Sorry if I have to quote Wikipedia, but it's more convenient than combing through Dmowski's actual books.
"He saw the aggressive Germanization of Polish territories controlled by the German Empire as the major threat to Polish culture and therefore advocated a degree of accommodation with another power that had partitioned Poland, the Russian Empire. He favored the re-establishment of Polish independence by nonviolent means, and supported policies favorable to the Polish middle class."
The Rots should be Poland's anthem, and it specifically references germanization as a threat. I'll remind you that the western Slavs extended to the Elbe river, but were germanized. He was right.
Considering all of Poland's valiant yet doomed violent uprisings always failed, he was right.
What do you want an illiterate mass and a few meddling elites? He was right
"A controversial personality most of his life, Dmowski believed that only a homogenous Polish-speaking and Roman Catholic-practicing nation would be preferable as opposed to Pilsudki’s vision of Prometheism which sought a multi-ethic Poland reminiscent of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth instead. As a result, his thinking marginalized other ethnic minority groups living in Poland, particularly those in the Kresy (which included Jews, Lithuanians, and Ukrainians). He remains a prototype of Polish nationalism[1] and has been frequently referred to as "the father of Polish nationalism".[2][3] Throughout most of his life, he was the chief ideological opponent of the Polish military and political leader Józef Piłsudski and of the latter's vision of Poland as a multinational federation against German and Russian imperialism."
That entire paragraph shows that he was a nationalist, and before it became defined in terms of race and ethnicity like we have to nowadays, it's clear that he was right.
"Dmowski's National Committee was recognized by the French as the legitimate government of Poland.[25] The British and the Americans were less enthusiastic about Dmowski's National Committee, but likewise recognized it as Poland's government a year later.[35] However, the Americans refused to provide backing for what they regarded as Dmowski's excessive territorial claims (Dmowski's Line). The American President Woodrow Wilson reported, "I saw Mr. Dmowski and Mr. Paderewski in Washington, and I asked them to define Poland for me, as they understood it, and they presented me with a map in which they claimed a large part of the earth."[36]
Cont.
Here's where it gets good.
In part, Wilson's objections stemmed from dislike of Dmowski personally. One British diplomat stated, "He was a clever man, and clever men are distrusted; he was logical in his political theories and we hate logic; and he was persistent with a tenacity which was calculated to drive everybody mad."[37] Another area of objection to Dmowski was with his antisemitic remarks, as in a speech he delivered at a dinner organized by the writer G. K. Chesterton, that began with the words, "My religion came from Jesus Christ, who was murdered by the Jews."[38] When British Prime Minister David Lloyd George criticized Dmowski and the Committee, Dmowski saw this as a result of Lloyd George's representation of Jewish interests.[24] He refused to admit a single Polish Jew to the National Committee, despite support for such a proposal from Paderewski.[26] A number of American and British Jewish organizations campaigned during the war against their governments recognizing the National Committee.[38] Another leading critic of Dmowski was the historian Sir Lewis Namier, a Jew who served as the British Foreign Office's resident expert on Poland during the war, and who claimed to be personally offended by antisemitic remarks made by Dmowski. Namier fought hard against British recognition of Dmowski and "his chauvinist gang".[38] In turn, Dmowski's experiences at that time convinced him of the existence of an international "Judeo-Masonic conspiracy, unfriendly towards Poland and intrasigently hostile to his [Endecja] party".[39]"
Yup. A good goy shill or a Jew. Totally.
>>I'm going to panhandle for pre-parition borders because baste Wilson and (((league of nation))) will help peacekeeping them, everyone will just give the land away with no questions asked
Nowhere near prepartition borders. A clear opponent of Wilson and the brits. That last parts just retarded
Please read the above excerpts.
No. The allies were a [spolier]judeo-[/spoiler] democracy. The USSR were communists. Germany was National Socialist. Only Italy, maybe Spain were fascists. Please refer to Dr. Pierce to understand the difference. Yes I'm aware of the demographic situation Poland was in. Thank you for saving me the typing as we've already established I'm slightly lazy
I'm just gonna face palm and disregard this one.
Cont.
"I'm just gonna completely disregard your entire first post explaining how shit gets fixed to set the basis of the military rebuilding" the comment.
Rapeseed fields? I'm sorry what? Do you mean a lack of crop rotation degrading soil quality? Seed that die after one generation as opposed to natural, now called "heirloom" seeds? Do you mean a reliance on pesticides, GMOs, etc? Or do you mean that there's a huge rape epidemic as far as the eye can see and no one does anything about it. I'm so confused by this. Are you sure you're not some D&C shill hiding behind a VPN?
Aww what happened to the cheeky German? Of I wanted to shitpost with him. we could have been a duo, the duo Piłsudski and Adolf had always dreamed of (look it up)
Also the post pointing out post deletions and accusing mods of being mutts silencing aryan speech was deleted. Holy shit that's some heavy handed moderation. Can't even shitpost on a Tibetan fishing forum anymore?
Oh dear it appears I have forgotten artillery, arguably my favorite category. While Poland has many good, indigenous designs, with a strong industrial capacity already in place to build large quantities, they do not exploit their natural Artillery advantage nearly enough. Looking at the acquisition of Artillery pieces, they could thoroughly modernize their artillery batteries with highly mobile, accurate, long ranged artillery, which can conduct counter battery fire as well. They could easily produce 2x-5x what they do now, depending on the model, and with the hypothetical economic reforms you could 2x-5x that again.
The RAK 120mm mortar would provide support on the platoon level, with a support platoon in each company dedicating a mobile mortar to each platoon. If this is too low level, there can be artillery companies/battery's that provide massed support on demand to companies in the battalion. Best of all, it is mounted on a Rosomak, simplifying logistics, which I do rather enjoy, as all the RAK factory has to produce is the turret. It is ridiculously under built for what Poland can sustain. The theoretical we have here would include thousands of these easily produced, very cost effective pieces.
The Kryl SPG is a small, extremely mobile 155mm artillery piece. These can be grouped into batteries to provide support to companies, counter enemy artillery, and have a very high survivalists due to their superior shoot n' scoot capability. While the gun itself is a license build, its licensed from their greatest ally, so no harm in taking it for themselves. Once again it is on a typical Polish truck chases, and is woefully underproduced.
The Krab is a larger 155mm artillery piece. The problem here is while it is technically an indigenous design, the chassis is Worst Korean, the turret is Britbongistan, and the barrel is German. However, in the modern day it is the electronics that are most vulnerable to being bugged, or containing a kill switch should the customer nation go to war with the producer. Luckily, this is WB electronics' Topaz system, a Polish design. The mechanical parts won't just blow up if the political situation changes. However, it would still be better to use Polish parts. luckily for this scenario, we now have a huge surplus of older T72s whose chassis can be readily taken, and only a turret would have to be produced. Once again simplifying the process, and cutting corners without actually cutting corners. Ooh how I like manipulating logistics and the manufacturing process. This is not as underproduced as the other two, but with the free chassis from older T72s, we can ramp up production massively, affording battalions extremely potent heavy artillery support.
Fuck the Himars, 20 pieces is pathetic. I'll take the money back thanks. Luckily we can use the WR-40 Langusta. While simply a heavily modernized and upgraded Soviet BM-21, these can be spammed out, with just one providing effective short range rocket support, and a massed battery used to devastating effect. But this leaves us with a need for a long range, hard hitting MLRS. The Himars is unacceptable, simply due to it being high tech and not indigenous, leading to all the possible security issues. Listen every produced mechanisms with Polish hardware and code would be more acceptable. While creating a new design is possible, it might take a while, and a few iterations to create enough design expertise. Unfortunately I don't have a stopgap answer or recommendations for licensed units.
Dunno. They certainly seem to work overtime to catch up. Even in New Years' Eve.
No, it's a shithole country with bucket of crabs mentality and everyone who's not a complete retard wants to leave and cut off all his ties to the country. Joining the EU allowed Polish felons and other assortment of garbage to move freely.
Get the fuck out of here redittor and shove those "sirs" up your ass you insufferable faggot.
Yeah, Piłsudski was such a big fan of multiculturalism he put ukrainian nationalists in a concentration camps and would only recognize ukraine as an independent state with his guy Symon Petliura in charge while jewish officers in the army were being demoted and stripped of privileges.
And Intermarium was supposed to be a multicultural utopia where everyone's equal and friends with each other, certainly not pragmatic anti-communists alliances with countries on equal standing with puppet governments in the weaker ones.
I mean rapeseed overtaking literally any other crop because it's EU subsidized like corn in USA you mentally stunted quadroon.
>>>/4um/
Shouldn't have bothered replying to a wikipedia-reading mulatto who's an expert on Poland because he's 1/16th Polish and read a few articiles online.
Is this the famous Polish ironic self hate that I've heard is a staple of Polish image board culture? Your English is quite good, are you sure you're actually Polish? Above you advocated for killing half the population. It's my guess that you're some random anti-Polish shill hiding behind a VPN, attempting to make a fool out of Poles with your despicable behavior. Prove you're actually Polish. Say a few sentences, hell a paragraph in polish.
Sir, you sir, are quite angry, sir, and sir, I, as a fellow sir, do not understand, sir, why you would accuse a sir, such as myself, sir, of being a Reddit or, sir, and sir, to even think of shoving a word, sir, up an ass, sir, is rather uncouth, sir, as a word, sir, cannot be place anywhere physical, sir, as, sir, a word is a concept, and sir, a concept as abstract as a word, sir, cannot be physical, sir. Moreover, sir, to call me, sir, a fellow sir, of being insufferable, when I sir have been nothing but polite, sir, is unbecoming of a sir, and a gentleman, as yourself, sir, most undoubtedly are, as you sir have already demonstrated, and to accuse me, sir, of homosexuality, sir, is uncalled for, sir. Sir, I will have you know, sir, that currently, sir, I am fucking thy mother and sister, sir.
Ok, internet armchair historian, provide me with an actual source and we can discuss it. Prove your claim, or shut up.
When did we even start with the intermarium? It was a concept that would have never worked, as most of the target nations were already aligned or leaning towards one of the greater powers, and had their own long standing political disagreements that outweighed Piłsudski saying; "please join my club". You're bringing up arguments that are not part of the original.
Oh right. Sorry I forgot the name of a plant. A mistake someone so smart as yourself would obviously never make. After all, you're omniscient.
ha gotcha! Made a typo? Your entire argument is null and void har har har fuck off with that pilpul
1. We already established why I used Wikipedia as a quick source.
2. whiter than you ahmed
3. Considering my claims are actually backed up you want a list of sources when you haven't even bothered to back any of yours up, not even with the laziest of Wikipedia articles? Go and post a few of yours first and yours aren't, I wouldn't be talking shit.
4. Even if I am 1/16th as you claim, that's still more than you, you VPN using anti-Polish anti-white shill.
5. And yet you replied.
Nah, it reaches pretty absurd levels and it's rather disheartening to see, so I avoid any Polish "communities" these days because they're unbearable. But it's the truth that 50 years of communist slavery has totally castrated this nation and corrupted its mentality into total nihilism and despair.
Sorry for not getting rid of the cuckchanner sooner. I didn't notice it at first
Happens.
I enjoyed his analysis. Sucks>>686411 had to get in a fight with him. Also, how do you know he was a cuckchanner?
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Other than his faggy replies, he was using [spoiler]
So is everyone else in this thread who uses spoilers also a cuckchanner needing to be banned? Seems rather heavy handed to me. Plus, he was the only one to contribute quality analysis to this thread.
The most basic thing in an attempt to not stand out would be learning how to format text.
can youdo this
(((better be careful though.)))
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Stating wrong information over multiple paragraphs is hardly a positive contribution.
Even though you IP hopped, don't fellate yourself in third person, easy to see through.
Sorry for sticking up for him. So far I'm in agreement with him. Convince me he was wrong.
Your constant deleting is fucking pissing me off, I leave for a few hours and can't find the posts I'm looking for. It isn't reddit and we can't take a little heat or retardation, just don't delete things if you don't like it, you're not the only user of this board.
Said the actual turkmutts. You might want to look at the facemorphs first, between you and them :^)
Careful there mister friendly Pole, according to Greekfag if you spoiler then you're ripe for deletion and banning. Got our smart burger friend banned.
Where is that US dude with a bunch of long detailed posts? I wanted to read them later.
Not him but I'm currently defending him. Here's what happened. Smart US says Polands kinda fucked, but offers a simple plan to unfuck finances, industry, labor, tech, and economy. VPN using shill posing as a Pole (152a32) starts insulting his plan, and Poland. Smart US gives the detailed plan, uses the name Roman Dmowski, and gives great rearmament plan. Then disproves anti-pole shill posing as pole, even if it was using Wikipedia as a "quick source, because it's more convenient" as he put it. Shill continues bullshit, without actually providing any documentation for his points. Smart US disproves him, with his last post being quite humorous, also points out a few of a Germans post got deleted. Then Smart US gets deleted, along with anti-pole antiwhite shills lies also being deleted, and I assume Smart US got banned because we haven't heard back from him. The rest of the conversation is visible for now i assume that I'm next to be banned by greekfag for defending smart US user
So it's been nice reading Smart US's analysis, and it's been also nice hearing also get angry at greekfag's deletions, especially since Smart US user was the only one to post something worthwhile in this thread.
To clarify the entire argument revolved around if Dmowski was a gods chosen shill or a nationalist, as well as if the Polish population is garbage and hopeless of improvement. US defended Dmowski and Poland, anti-pole shill posing as a Pole and never citing any sources attacked Dmowski and Poland
You will also notice that 152a32 has advocated for genociding Poland, and turning its military into kamikazes.
A German pointed out that this follows UN agenda 21. German got deleted. I'm posting all this as I remember it, as I'm sure shill will cry to greekfag and I'll be gone next.
When thinking about Dmowski you have to remember that yes, he was hitting jews, but he was very pro-soviet. The national-democratic movement (Dmowski's party and the worst enemies of Piłsudski) was leading the peace talks after the 1920 war (Treaty of Riga), and did so terrible job at it that thousands of ethnic Poles were forced to live under USSR, and the military victory of the war was thoroughly wasted. Dmowski was entirely in favor of an alliance with USSR and pushing the country completely into its sphere of influence, where Piłsudski's doctrine was about balancing the relations between Germany and Russia without favoring either.
Well I don't know much on the topic. All I learned from Smart US user is that he wasn't a gods chosen shill, and was nationalistic compared to Pilsudskis more multicultural vision of Poland. You'd probably be able to have a wonderful and polite debate with Smart US user, but he's no longer with us thanks to a certain antiwhite shill and greekfag
Piłsudski's vision was in no way "multicultural" in modern understanding. Only minorities in Poland at the time were hohols and Tatars (to much lesser degree), and Piłsudski was trying to keep the former in line.
I don't know nearly as much as the previous guy, though I know that Poland was a third nonPolish, and during the war these other groups stood by, defected, or in the case of the holhols genocided the Poles, so could you explain to me what Pilsudskis vision was, and how he acted on it? im aware he and a certain Austrian painter were buddies, so I dont know what exactly happened
criminally unchecked
Pilsudski was a civic nationalist. He was good insofar as he kicked Stalin's teeth down his throat in 1920 and is one of the biggest reasons Poland became a country again, but he was still a civnat.
From wikipedia:
'Piłsudski believed in a multi-ethnic Poland—"a home of nations" including indigenous ethnic and religious minorities that he hoped would establish a robust union with the independent states of Lithuania and Ukraine.'
I don't think he meant niggers, but still. Sweet mustache, at least.
Oh, and he was good enough friends with Hitler that Hitler ordered an honor guard around his tomb in Warsaw and attended his funeral.
nytimes.com
So basically what smart US user said before he got deleted.
Yeah how'd that work out for them answer: holhols genocided them en masse in the east
Right back at ya, fuckface.
...
So if I repost his posts, and I can because I use an alternative viewer, will it get deleted and I myself banned?
I quite enjoyed his posts and hell I'd even format them to your standard if you want. Of course, if now we're just going to arbitrarily ban people for using incorrect formatting, I'll abstain.
gyro vol you really have gotten out of hand with this banning and deleting shit.
At least leave the posts up so we can see why someone was banned and form our own conclusions on how much of a faggot the strelok in question was.
Stick to banning spam, people posting retarded shit here isn't a big deal since they usually get btfo pretty damn hard anyway.
Why are redditfaggots so insufferable? The one arguing with the pole who IP hopped and sucked his own dick with the “smart American” nickname for himself is an ultra-nigger. He types like a crypto-boomer and posts several replies after one another without saging. And his vernacular is full of more self fellatiating bullshit. God I hate redditniggers.
You can ban them but you don’t need to delete their posts.
Alrighty then, I won't be deleting posts too anymore unless they truly are shit
Who is a cuckchanner? Define this term, and define your criteria the poster has to meet to be removed, please.
You think he's a nigger, another burger thinks he was smart - and that's how it is, opinions differ, so why won't we leave the posts up and consider the posters intelligent enough to form their own conclusions about them?
You have to remember about historical context. Ukrainian and Lithuanian nationalists were supported, surprise surprise, by USSR who wanted to disturb the internal order and give these ethnic groups a misguided sense of nationalism (which continues to day in modern Lithuania and Ukraine, both of which hate Polish people with passion and have built their own WE WUZ history - for example Lithuanians consider Adam Mickiewicz, our best poet and ethnic Polish nobleman, a Lithuanian because of his birthplace. Lithuania wasn't independent and was a part of the Polish Crown since 1385, and now they forbid Polish people, who still living there, to speak Polish language, to study Polish history in school and to have any sort of autonomy.
Piłsudski wanted to take the potential threat into account and threw the worst offenders in internment camps (Bereza Kartuska is the most known), but wanted to appease the civilian population and respected their faith - as was the Polish custom for ages, for better or worse. In the case of jews we cannot speak of the better, of course. Of course he wasn't full 1488 - but at the time it was difficult. Acknowledging our Slavic roots would mean subscribing to the old Russian ideology of panslavism and inevitably pushing the country towards Russian sphere of influence. Ethnic Polish nationalism would alienate other minorities, above mentioned, and would create civil unrest which was difficult enough to handle without it. "Multiculturalism" you read about in Wikipedia has nothing to do with modern understanding of it - yet again context fucking matters. Remember that Poland always welcomed other nations and ethnicities and allowed them to live here undisturbed. None of them were niggers, and the only Muslims were Tatars who fought alongside us in 1683.
Funny how people always thought of that shithole as "pure". Poland is truly anti ethno nationalism at its core.
Do you know where the world "slave" came from?
Well, racemixing was never the state's policy - so we kind of are, for the most part. Racial purity is not an issue here. Racial unity is. Jews kept to their own ghettos most of the time, as jews do, and other religious or ethnic minorities kept to their own land and rarely, if ever, mixed with ethnic Poles who were always devout Catholics. That's history, though, it's long gone. Now this country is an anti-human shithole with unironically communist boomers on one side and pozzed westernized liberals on the other. There's no sense of unity among people at all, despite the government's attempts to induce patriotism in the population. Mass media are openly promoting libtard values (crucifying anyone who tries to oppose faggot parades for example, which is the main topic for the last week), the ruling party are retarded "civnats" who pretend to be religious for support, brag about not allowing immigrants while hundreds of thousands of hohols are imported because "labor deficiency". Reposting this screencap again because it illustrates the point better than I can, and I always get depressed thinking about it.
>
Takes you too long so I'll make it a rhetorical one. "slave" comes "Slav" since these two were largely synonymous during the Tatar slave trade:
archive.is
So now please answer me. How many blonde Polish lolis you sacrificed to tataroaches in order to help you fight you White Christian brothers?
Another burger who appeared only after the cuckchanner was banned which in no way arouses suspicion, doubly so when the first thing he does is defending the totally other guy's honor instead of answering the OP's question.
Except they didn't and were deserting due to still being muslims but cleverly interpreting Quaran (heh, allah only said wine, nothing about vodka); lithuanians too were subhuman nigger filth who didn't arrive in Vienna AT ALL, and when ottomans were being chased out of Hungary the subhuman nigger apes did what nigs do best and after arriving late instead of helping the locals recover, they raped and pillaged
Chamo-komuna was based and nazbol pilled, PPR didn't recognize the state of israel, and GROM was founded to physically remove jews from Poland and ship them elsewhere ensuring they don't leave the trains until the final destination.
Could you post a screencap of the analysis and of his arguement with 152a32? Thatd be really helpful fore everyone that missed it.
Unfortunate
I second this
Presented without change or comment:
DMOWSKI ISN'T THE MAIN POINT HERE
I typed all this out already, but it was too long and so it got deleted. I'll try again.
After looking at Poland's industrial and technological capabilities, as well as its current economic state,
Continued! Now that we've established the basis for having the money and industry and labor force to pull off an actual return of the winged hussars, lets go step by step.
~Ground Forces~
Poland's greatest strength and potential, and easiest to upgrade.
Just get more. Begin with Hungary-style military themed summer camps. Move onto useless PE being replaced by classes that are practically mini- Hitler youth training, complete with unarmed combat and military level fitness training. Propaganda, a reinvigorated national spirit, and a pride in a blooming Poland should get you lots of fit recruits. Sort them into their best roles, while the smart stemfags go into R&D, and the weakfags go into manufacturing. Women of course go into support roles in the back lines, into the workforce, and most importantly to creating a strong stable household. Don't tax the young too hard so they can start having kids.
This is self explanatory, if it isn't you're the one who needs to do some thinking, not me.
Modernize with Pencott Wildwood, Plate carriers, better helmets, modern comms, MSBS, optics, etc. Poland currently wields a cluster fuck of personal equipment, standardize that shit with home designed home built models. They have at least one of everything Polish made to fill this.
Spam out Rosomak XP (liscence built Patria AMV XP) with Slovakian Torra 30 unmanned turrets. Strap on a few ATGMs (liscence built Kornets would be fine). Throw out the old Soviet shit, the clusterfuck of random shit, abandon acquisition programs. Borsuk IFV might finally be a thing, but unnecessary,a Rosomak APC that's uparmored to an IFV would help with production and maintenance. Recon vehicles, command, ambulances, etc should all be on the Rosomak XP type. Just keep building up a stockpile.
This is also important once we analyze Poland's armor capabilities. Squads have liscence built RPG-28/29, and platoons have Kornet ATGMs (liscenced as well for home industry).
This will be important when we analyze the Air Force. Equip each squad with PIORUNS, and each platoon (or at worst company) with Poprads. Move up to Battalion level and Noteć SPAAG should be appearing in force, as well as SRSAM Narew (if these turn out to be good, if they're shit then replace with Tunguska or Pantsyr and Tor, respectively. Brigades should see Liscence produced (or worse case scenario imported) S-400s. Fuck the Patriot batteries.
Poland doesn't have the experience designing these, but has the industry to build them. Also why would the Germans give Poland free tanks? Are they bugged? Kill switches? These are always a possibility. So Poland would have to develop something, and if not then keep upgrading their current fleet, but put more emphasis on small unit, highly mobile ATGMs. Tanks should ideally be supported by a BMPT-terminator type vehicle. Likely a Uparmored Rosomak with grenade launchers to add to its standard 30mm Torra turret.
Logistics, repair, recovery, etc etc etc. don't make me write this shit out. You get the idea. Similar vehicles and chassis for production efficiency and maintenance and smoothing logistics.
I'll address the haters and the cheeky German later.
~Air Force~ (please don't cross it out)
This is an important asset, but Poland is severely lacking.
Poland doesn't have much of its own, however it has MI24s and home built utility helicopters. They have two options. Go full South Africa, take an outdated heli and upgrade it to a point it's unrecognizable and very potent, or liscence build something. The former would require techfags and industryfags working together to set up an attack helicopter industry. While harder and longer (giggity) it would provide more security from bugging and kill switches, and stimulate polish economy more. License building MI-35s and MI-28s would be quicker, but can they really trust the Russians? more than they can trust weimerica and our greatest ally
Just buy Gripens and upgrade Mig-29s to Mig-35s ffs. Cheap, reliable, sturdy, huge fleet with this option. Not entirely safe, but aircraft design is apparently hard nowadays. This would be safeguarded against by a large air defense net. If both are compromised I think you've got a lot of other problems to think about.
barrel bombs duuuhhh Gripens can do this.
obviously upgrade MI-24s to MI-35MVs and have a bunch. Air cavalry and Wagner oy vey is required for a modern nation. Transport props will either need to be bought or Poland will have to really crank its industry up. (Which we hopefully accounted for, right?)
Once again my laziness wins out
Liscence built ZT-6 Mokopas, because I'll be damned if some bastard genocidal africans are the only ones to use this beautiful missile developed by Denel. Once again Poland doesn't have a missile manufacturing base, so Iris-T, MDBA Meteors, or maybe Russian missiles. The American missiles are outclassed and obsolete nowadays. Hopefully the foreign designs are a temporary stopgap measure while the stemfags and industryfags get their shit together and make proper weaponry.
Ill self check this I guess
~Navy~
Ok we're starting from scratch here. Literally. Poland has as much naval history as Austria, no, less, I forgot Austria had sea access in the past. Poland has experience building one modern frigate, and its shit. No home designed or built anti ship missiles, and a small dockyard capability as well. Add to that geography, and there aren't a shit tons of natural harbors to build ports in. I have to be a little clever here.
We'll focus mainly on smaller craft, with different production locations. The main Gdańsk and Szczecin shipbuilders will focus on Frigates, Kołobrzeg Gdynia and Sopot on Corvettes, and smaller locations on smaller boats. Inland areas mainly in the northeast (with lots of undeveloped land and unemployed people) will manufacture a lot of the engines, radars, munitions, and interior aspects of the ships that can be shipped to the coast for installation. While home designs are created, I'd have to go with listened built foreign models. We need small ships that pack firepower out of every nook and cranny. Looking at the Baden-Wurtenburg class, LCS, etc, these are big and have limited firepower. The Russians however… those are some BS armaments they manage to jam onto their ships.
Admiral Gorshkov class. Look at its armaments and size. Need I say more? Even Poland can produce these. Maybe a fleet of 4-8 can be fielded.
Gremyashchiy-class corvette. Same as above, but we can have a few more. A dozen, maybe two dozen? If the industry and economy can manage (as a unkiked properly managed economy should) even 3 dozen can be patrolling, training, maintaining, and refitting.
Buyan-M class "corvettes" they're not even 600 tons, they're practically river patrol boats that carry a Pantsyr-S, 8 anti ship missiles, and 8 Manpads. While laws say that such ''powerful" missiles can't be land based, these buggers can be swam up a river and hide inside Poland. Spam these until these become household items. That reminds me…
Just like those evil gun grabbing nazis did in real life, make guns readily available for Poles as part of the 2A, witcher edition. The burgers will be seething.
The biggest problem. No one friendly or reliable has good ones. No good ones won't be bugged with kill switches. Ideally a type 212a, but maybe the swedes will help once again with Blekinge class subs. I don't have a good answer for this, but subs would be used to help prevent a naval invasion.
Standardize, home produce, blah blah you know the deal by now
~other considerations~
Greatly expand these cooldudes(tm), redpill them, and put them to work
Ok these larding faggots are a good and bad idea. They're not trained or equipped enough to be part of the regular army, while a guerilla war simply won't work in Poland. So I propose something crazy. Make the reserves and the territorial defense force one thing. Yup. Have these be hundreds of thousands if not a million strong. Every Saturday train cqc, every month go on a 4-5 day platoon/company size maneuvers, every year go on a month long grand scale military exercise with the regular army, fully incorporated. Give them the same gear and whatnot as the regulars. Regular boots require the least training to do their jobs, so during peace time a huge contingent of officers, EW, airborne, Air Force, special weapons operators, techies, NBCR, can be trained to proficiency, as well as a smaller (but still potent) front line. The moment someone starts posturing, start calling up the reservists/territorial guard. They should only require minimal military training at this point. Add to that a bunch of smartfags civvies to do their job, but now play with military computers and toys, and you can start to double, triple, quadruple your force. I believe the German Wehrmacht had a similar concept before ww2 where upon mobilization units would be sent to hold the front, while others would literally undergo mitosis over and over again to produce a huge response army. Of course this will require a huge stockpile of weapons, vehicles, etc. each man brings his uniform and guns with him, like the Swiss.
Schrodinger's nukes. A secret fuck you if conventional forces fail.
Well lads I lurked for two years, this is my first try. I'll now address anyone's concerns, beginning with the ones already posted.
And I won't be posting his tirade on Dmowski.
Oh dear it appears I have forgotten artillery, arguably my favorite category. While Poland has many good, indigenous designs, with a strong industrial capacity already in place to build large quantities, they do not exploit their natural Artillery advantage nearly enough. Looking at the acquisition of Artillery pieces, they could thoroughly modernize their artillery batteries with highly mobile, accurate, long ranged artillery, which can conduct counter battery fire as well. They could easily produce 2x-5x what they do now, depending on the model, and with the hypothetical economic reforms you could 2x-5x that again.
The RAK 120mm mortar would provide support on the platoon level, with a support platoon in each company dedicating a mobile mortar to each platoon. If this is too low level, there can be artillery companies/battery's that provide massed support on demand to companies in the battalion. Best of all, it is mounted on a Rosomak, simplifying logistics, which I do rather enjoy, as all the RAK factory has to produce is the turret. It is ridiculously under built for what Poland can sustain. The theoretical we have here would include thousands of these easily produced, very cost effective pieces.
The Kryl SPG is a small, extremely mobile 155mm artillery piece. These can be grouped into batteries to provide support to companies, counter enemy artillery, and have a very high survivalists due to their superior shoot n' scoot capability. While the gun itself is a license build, its licensed from their greatest ally, so no harm in taking it for themselves. Once again it is on a typical Polish truck chases, and is woefully underproduced.
The Krab is a larger 155mm artillery piece. The problem here is while it is technically an indigenous design, the chassis is Worst Korean, the turret is Britbongistan, and the barrel is German. However, in the modern day it is the electronics that are most vulnerable to being bugged, or containing a kill switch should the customer nation go to war with the producer. Luckily, this is WB electronics' Topaz system, a Polish design. The mechanical parts won't just blow up if the political situation changes. However, it would still be better to use Polish parts. luckily for this scenario, we now have a huge surplus of older T72s whose chassis can be readily taken, and only a turret would have to be produced. Once again simplifying the process, and cutting corners without actually cutting corners. Ooh how I like manipulating logistics and the manufacturing process. This is not as underproduced as the other two, but with the free chassis from older T72s, we can ramp up production massively, affording battalions extremely potent heavy artillery support.
Fuck the Himars, 20 pieces is pathetic. I'll take the money back thanks. Luckily we can use the WR-40 Langusta. While simply a heavily modernized and upgraded Soviet BM-21, these can be spammed out, with just one providing effective short range rocket support, and a massed battery used to devastating effect. But this leaves us with a need for a long range, hard hitting MLRS. The Himars is unacceptable, simply due to it being high tech and not indigenous, leading to all the possible security issues. Listen every produced mechanisms with Polish hardware and code would be more acceptable. While creating a new design is possible, it might take a while, and a few iterations to create enough design expertise. Unfortunately I don't have a stopgap answer or recommendations for licensed units.
You're a good man. Thanks for reposting that. It's an interesting read. No clue why it would be deleted.
What was the original argument though? I need my daily dosage of internet drama.
He said he wouldn't be posting that idiot. Better idea: what alternate viewer do you recommend so that the other American can get his internet drama without others having to?
Tatars are as foreign to Poland as they are to Russia, you fucking retard.
Are you even trying, Mustafa?