Thoughts on the Qur'an?

Some of what it promotes was altered. Like the "72 virgins in heaven" meme. It was a copyist alteration, directly taking language from known Christian texts about "grapes" in heaven (not virgins.. but grapes.. meaning something more along the lines of verdant grounds and abundance).

In Islam, Heaven is still explicitly sensual in nature.
quran.com/78/33
quran.com/55/54

It just proofs that they are extremely sexually perverted and they doing all of this just for pussy. Deeply immoral religion.
No sex in heaven according to the bible.

Never read it. Obviously, it is been used as a political and warfare psychological tool, same as any other deemed holy books. I suspect the Christians, who bravely faced the lions for the crowds of Roman Empire, impressed upon some of those in attendance the power of belief. And if you look at how it is the pawns of the holy books who blow themselves to pieces, never the higher ranking clerics, I'd say this was a holy book that supplanted kings, just like the bible eventually supplanted the Roman Empire. There is also the generous inclusion of Christian figures so as to make for an easier transition. This book also created a second religion, Sikhism– Hindus who would not convert and particularly did not also want to die as well, created a religion to basically combat this religion. Only one religion shows the true way, that is obviously the one which shuns malice and expansion thru force or political trickery.

Well, at least it was higher ranking clerics who died in the early Church. Up to the very top, with Peter being crucified, Bartholomew being skinned alive, Paul beheaded, and then further and further generations of Bishops like Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch, to the lowly soldiers like St George or women like Perpetua. No distinction between any of them.

I stand corrected. But even then, perhaps some how those altered too. I would put forth that Islam started off as a weird Christian heresy (like Mormonism), but only later got taken over by the warlord culture of the East.

Duh. I should just mention that Jesus himself died. That makes it unequivocally different than what Islam became. Even Islam itself (like Gnostics) refuse to accept that Jesus even died. In their fleshly minds, it's too undignified a fate. So they lied about him living and tricking everyone. But Christianity is honest, and puts forth that there is victory even in our defeat and death. Starting with the Son of God himself. We are not to be "strong men". But "he who wishes to be great among you must be your servant." This is anathema to other religions.

I've read it. It has a couple good lessons in it when it comes to relationships (like "if you and your wife are mad at each other, leave the house for a bit and never kick her out" things like that) but theology-wise, pretty poor.
Jesus is clearly the Son of God and they deny it.
Muhammad, their prophet, perpetuated his hoax and lived like a king, while the Apostles were witnesses to Christ's divinity and they were persecuted for it.

Literally no one is willing to die for a hoax they perpetuated. No one. Not one person.

I think the BO of /islam/ is melting down, seeing his community for what they are.

>>>/islam/36277

Do you think he could be converted?

Indeed. Best proof of the Gospel really. Not the internal evidence, but the very lives of the Apostles themselves. No one went through what they did - even all of the toil and stress before they died - all for a hoax.

Give him another year or two and maybe he might be open to it. In the mean time, pray for him and ask the Holy Family to pray for him as well.

it's more intelligent than the bible it that's a really low bar

The way I see Muslims, they're 2/3 of the way there. They believe in a higher power that they must submit to - good. When they're not slaughtering people, they generally structure their societies in sensible ways that wouldn't be too far off from the Christian ideal - good. They even believe that Jesus Christ was a holy man that had valuable things to say - good.

The problem with them more comes from the philosophical and moral underpinnings of their teachings. Their religion is quite a hedonistic one, and relies a lot on violence. Without the violence, the allowance for polygamy sure would leave a lot of sexually frustrated young men about. But hey, at least it acknowledges a need to deal with those types, unlike liberal atheism.

As much as they are being used as a weapon against us, I just can't bring myself to see Muslims as an enemy right now. Because at least they are oriented towards the transcendent, at least they possess the ability to look to the future, beyond the here and now. At least they have a moral code they are willing to abide by and a vision for which they feel strongly enough about to sacrifice their lives for. The same cannot be said of the secular elite and their culture of death that they are trying to force everyone to comply with. I pray for their conversion; it's all I can do.

The Qur'an itself? Alright book, very heretical, I think St. John of Damascus' rebuttal despite being the first one ever, exposed it pretty well for what it is.
It's very materialistic too, they only describe Hell and Heaven in very materialistic ways, Hell is just a never ending string of what you as a human would find torturing and painful while Heaven is the opposite.

to be more specific, the Qur'an promises sexual pleasures in heaven as a reward, which is completely nonsensical.

if there is no more production of souls in the End, why would God allow sex in Heaven?

and many, many other logical inconsistencies with the qur'an as a new book of revelation after the OT and NT. the mecca is also particularly nonsensical, seeing as it was a pagan shrine and merely appropriated into being a literal cornerstone of the religion.

Oh I gotta mention this too, there's a part I love, Muhammad (or Allah rather) literally, and I do mean literally, splits the moon in two when he's trying to convert a few people in Mecca. He just does it.
There's no comment beyond that really it's hilarious and it took entire centuries until some theologians even started to make up excuses for it being real.

What's funny about that as well is the excuses prove the naysayers correct.
You know, transient magic.

Like man, I respect plenty of Muslims, I'm actively friends with plenty, but you can just tell most of the practicing ones are in it because it's almost culturally ingrained for them.
I can only hope and pray for them.

Its my understanding that that's their problem though, they're oriented toward the transcendent only, where the only way to know their distant God is by following the law. Our God on the other hand is wholly immanent, personal, knowable as well as being wholly transcendent. Muslims outright reject this idea. I don't know a whole lot about Islamic theology though tbh.

Also wtp is w/all the bracketed words and phrases in the text? I've always wondered

Oh wow, who would've thought.
That board was never relevant in the first place, so let them discuss their Koran and Hadith, for example, how water from well where shit, piss and menstrual clothes were thrown in is pure and clear. Thank you, Muhammad.

It was written by some delusional man lost in the wilderness, claiming he'd been visited by angelic entities. Oh wait, that's also Mormonism…

im almost finished reading it and i have to say im not a fan. its so repetitive and unclear. maybe its just because my translation could be better, but i definitely prefer the bible for its sheer variety (and content, obviously)

however i do appreciate that its much shorter and concise compared to the bible. i definitely see how it would have been easier to proselytize in a day and age where normal people didnt read as much as they do now.

but i just cant see how the imams have managed to make a complex religion out of such an indefensible foundation. theres nothing symbolic or allegorical to contemplate, just a rote narrative of the things mohammed did and the laws he made.

Never even thought of it that way. Thats some good evidence to help people convert.

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My personal theory is that he was visited by a demon in disguise

...

Anyone with a cursory knowledge of non-Talmudic Judaism and Christianity must discard Islam's fundamental claims, being as they are 1) historically false (e.g., the Crucifixion), 2) internally inconsistent (e.g. the constant abrogations) and 3) intra-traditionally disharmonious (e.g., Gabriel is portrayed utterly dissimilarly to how he is in the prior two traditions). That last point is the real kicker, since Islam claims to be a fulfilment of both Judaism and Christianity, and, moreover, that its coming—the coming of Mohamed—was prophesied. Christianity easily follows from Judaism, as we can see via the prophets and key events. Indeed, some things are a little more subtle than expected—Christ's kingdom being otherworldly, for instance—but it all fits together logically and consistently. The same cannot be said for Islam. Its claims of foretelling fall apart, of course, and the Muslims claim this is because the Law and the Gospel—as they call them—were "corrupted." There is zero evidence for this, nor any surviving historical traces of any versions which do foretell Islam. Its primary claims are fanciful to say the least.

that's not the point. The point is nobody would SACRIFICE himself for false claims, not death of natural reasons.

So, explain all the Hindu and Buddhist martyrs. Not to mention the Muslim suicide attackers - willingly sacrificing themselves for false claims. People sacrifice themselves for all kinds of crazy ideologies.

None of them know it is a hoax. They sincerely believe the lies. If they knew their false religion was a hoax they wouldn't be willing to strap bombs to their chests.

meme religion, only exists because they cut your head off if you try leave, and sin permeates the very nature of the religion

Buddhists are not martyrs. Devoted ones believe a cessation of desire is the path to Enlightenment (hence these type of people won't defend themselves, as that feeds desire). They're simply pacifist (or passive, if you will). And they're not dying for Buddha or any historical aspect of their religion. They don't even care to be known or remembered or that they were providing a "testimony" to anything. They just simply… die. And don't care who talks about it or not. So the idea of a "martyr" is ill defined. The original meaning of "martyr" is "witness". i.e. Christians were witnesses to the power of Christ and we were willing to die in public trial.

Back to Buddhists, the idea of cessation itself would be true to them, even if Buddha wasn't real. Their religion isn't really founded on historical veracity, but ideas. Think of it along the lines of a form of psychology or science. Some people would also cling to some intrinsic worth to psychology, even if Freud was a moron.

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syro-Aramaic_Reading_of_the_Koran

erenow.net/common/what-the-koran-really-says/40.php

the quran seems to be based on christian heresy or syriac liturgy

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hyper-protestantism

Clear as day that it was written by low iq, sexually decadent, blood thirsty men. This book has nothing on the Bible, the difference is night and day in quality, yet they claim it to be perfect (LOL) and still deny basic historical fact - that Jesus was crucified. That alone refutes this whole book.

That's the other thing. Arab people have extreme pride. They will go out of their way and lie to maintain that pride, if you have ever been around Arabs (especially the older ones), you will notice this about them. They suffered from inferiority complex. This is why the Quran denies Jesus crucifixion, because a Arab could never stand having their prophet die a humiliating death like Jesus, so they instead lie and invent this idea that Jesus never died. But Christians are honest and don't deny this fact, that's just another reason to follow Christ, and not this man-made war ideology called Islam

I read it every day, it's a Christian holy book after all!

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This isn't a very convincing argument. The only way you even know what their lives were like and what they did is from books that they wrote themselves.

Hyper-bait

The same thing the Pope thinks, of course.

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Mods here are probably the same people who help cover up for child-molesting priests lol. Imagine being this desperate to cover up the truth because you want your organization to look good.

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I don't think about the Quran

For discussion free from Papist censorship, visit:
>>>/christianity/

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even muslims know they are dealing with fan-fiction in the Quran, but they follow it out of spite and animosity towards jews, christians and God himself.

If there's no sex or anything pleasurable….why would anyone want to go there when they die(besides not being burned or tortured for all eternity that is)?

It would seem, to me, that eventually doing nothing but what god said in heaven would be nothing more than slavery of the mind and a hell all it's own.

Being eternally with our infinite creator would be far more liberating than being enslaved to muh dic.

Good post

Yeah this is definitely true to an extent. The vibe that you get like this is just like when a team your cheering for gets bad foul calls from the refs but you accept them because you want your team to win. You aren't interested in the foul call being bad, as long as it goes your way you let it go by. Mohammedans has this mentality a lot. No one cannot be deeply troubled when they find their religion says you can explicitly lie to your own friends in order to settle a dispute. You can literally swear a false oath to settle disputes amongst fellow Muslims, much less what you can do to the "enemy" and even lie to your wife to make her feel better. Many muslims have zero issues with the whole "scientific miracles in the Quran" being pushed even though many know they are very shaky at best. Because it is seen as a win for them if idiots get convinced they don't push back on it or promote it as well. It's really. They are really overcome with the spirit of deception for the most part.

Yes, for example in the Mystical City of God, it's said that looking at God is looking into the infinite. You can keep staring and there's just infinite going on there. Obviously this is a vision and we can't even comprehend it, but we do get the "beatific vision". Seeing God is seeing infinite goodness, there is no limit to the depth of this vision. There's nothing to be bored about and you are seeing constant unlimited goodness with no darkness at all. Not just banging sex slaves who becomes virgins again after you bang them, and then according to some accounts your orgasm lasts for 70 years and it's all just ridiculous. It's clearly nonsense for sex crazed base idiots who their only dream is just that. It's disgusting.

The koran is a holy book and very kissable

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Pope John Paul liked it

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I think God created Mormonism to not only make fun of prots, but muslims as well

Top kek, but God didn't create that evil. He merely permitted it.

What about Joseph Smith then?

What about him? God made Smith sure, but God also made Stalin, Hitler, Luther, Pol Pot, Merkel, Muhammad, and other terrible people. That doesn't mean God made them do the terrible things they did. God permits evil in this fallen world, doesn't mean He authors it.

Read the Book of Job.

No I'm referring to the claim that people who create hoaxes don't die for them. Joseph Smith endured some of the harshest persecution, tarring and feathering, multiple times in prison, being uprooted and driven from place to place, homes burned down, giving up his bed and going hungry for the good of the other Mormons, and was eventually murdered for his beliefs. And yet he just made it all up. By that argument, it means the Mormon church must be true. How do you explain that?

sounds like people always misundertand this argument, but i'll have to repeat myself. This doesn't mean that it was necessarily true, but that he thought he was true, that he thought it was genuine. Same thing with the apostles. The apostle's persecution doesn't prove that Christ resurrected, but that they believe it was true.

So it's better to be enslaved to the creator's wants for how we should act?

If that was the case i'd take anything else even purgatory.

One might say believing in christian heaven is nonsense if they of a different faith.