I studied philosophy and wrote a book on the future of transhumanism and how it brings us away from Christianity...

I studied philosophy and wrote a book on the future of transhumanism and how it brings us away from Christianity. It's about 140 pages and available in PDF form for free.

dubioustunic.blogspot.com/2019/04/ethics-as-warfare-metaphysics-and.html

Ethics as Warfare is a book that describes the philosophical confrontation between transhumanism and the Christian tradition. In the Christian case, faith in the Word, who was incarnate as man, has us maintain the human species. In the non-Christian case, the human essence is no longer the ground of Natural Law. In fact, we are to become beings capable of sculpting Natural Law, like unto gods. This is the meaning of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." This god-potential of mankind is obviously a threat to the Christian tradition, as well as Enlightenment values; yet it is inevitable. So where will you end up?

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dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6710751/Transgender-women-birth-time-thanks-pioneering-womb-transplants.html
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Here's a synopsis, so that you can decide whether you want to read the book, and so that debate can ensue here regardless of whether or not you've read it.

The Christian outlook says that man is the ideal being. That is because God incarnated himself as man. This is the anti-transhumanist message of Jesus Christ. Christianity claims that men are already gods in Christ; transhumanism seeks some form of "godhood" outside the Christian vision of Jesus. In this way, transhumanism is more radical than meets the eye. In rejecting mankind, the transhumanist must reject Christianity.

But Christian ethics, and the notion of an unchangeable "human nature" at the heart of existence, are the basis of much of our moral thinking. Without human nature, secular humanism is set to fall, as well as the political notion of "universal human rights."

The non-Christian transhumanist thus faces a difficult metaphysical and ethical problem, because he must grapple with the moral question of how to direct human evolution, yet he cannot appeal to "human nature" to ground his ethics. Nietzsche's notion of the "Ubermensch" is helpful here. But modern materialism and nihilism make the ethical direction of transhumanist evolution difficult. I argue that the notion of "enhancing" humanity is not well-defined, and advocate a more philosophically sophisticated idea of what it means for a species to "advance."

Without some notion of the "Logos" to guide human change, transhumanism is doomed to build on sand. I discuss what a non-Christian Logos might look like – perhaps it is Hermetic, or Hegelian. I argue that transhumanist innovation threatens to fragment human discourse, so that warfare over the reevaluation of values ensues. There may just be no "talking out" our differences with the cyborgs, and physical conflict may be a deciding factor in transhumanist evolution. This is the sense in which Nietzsche foresaw wars on the way to the Ubermensch.

Yet physical conflict may be guided by a non-Christian Logos, or Natural Law of evolution. The outcomes of transhumanist warfare may be decided by the superiority of values, virtue, or wisdom. Indeed, armies thrive on their virtues, and Providence awards victory to the morally worthy. In this way, transhumanist physical or caste warfare is not a chaotic evil but proceeds according to Law, being generative of moral complexity.

Importantly, I argue that contemporary transhumanism is too fixated on technology, and not enough on spiritualism. I foresee the next era as more spiritualist, in line with the notion of the "New Age," and Crowley's notion of the "New Aeon." A holistic vision of human evolution must entertain mystical innovation just as much as technological innovation. But contemporary transhumanism is almost totally guided by technological considerations. This must change if we wish to attain true godhood outside Jesus Christ.

Anyone interested in discussing transhumanism here? On that note let me take the opportunity to mention evangelical Steve Quayle, who has awesome radio talks on YouTube on transhumanism and anti-Christian tendencies in the Deep State.

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It's inevitability only steels my resolve friend; I am only one man and I can only do so much, but I plan to distance myself as I can from the transhuman ideals.

Right, it seems as if as transhumanism progresses (and also the New Age), it in some sense bolsters our faith in Christ. The idea of the hypostatic union, that the Logos finds perfection in man, is so prophetic, for example.

I'm seven chapters into your book and I'm still waiting for a concrete definition of transhumanism. What you've written seems like a decent defense of natural law using the word transhumanism as a stand-in for "things that deviate from natural law."

I'm curious if you touched on Gnosticism. It strangely has some parallels to the transhumanist mindset. It's a repeat of one of Christianity's oldest enemies, in a new guise. The idea that our bodies don't matter. The identity of one's self as just a "soul".

I'd say the same thing applies to transgender propaganda as well. And maybe even Evangelical thought (that redemption is something always seperate from your actual life in the here and now, and one's sins don't matter). But I digress.

transhumanism is the changing of human nature.

Yes! I touch on Gnosticism. One thing I say is that the contemporary transhumanist is too materialist, and perhaps Gnostic mysticism could help direct our development. At the same time, the Christian says that Gnostic mysticism is merely a "counterfeit" of the true power that is in the blood of Christ.

Techies won’t survive the culture war.

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I think transgenderism may be analyzed as a form of transhumanism. But I don't cover this in the book, since it is too politically charged for now, and I did not receive insight into it.

So, one thing I'm trying to do in the book, for the sake of the development of non-Christian ethics, is to orient us away from the materialist obsession with technology. You're right that when you compare the philosophy of the techie to the absolutely systematic philosophy of Orthodox Catholicism, there is no comparison. That is why I try and reorient the techie so that he sees mysticism as part of man's "advancement."

My only point was that Silicon Valley is filled with disconnected marxists who will all hang.

imagine being so blatantly heretical that even r/christianity tells you to take a hike :T

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I see, it is also painful to me that all our technology is being advanced by A) naive Silicon Valley soy types and B) Deep State clandestine intelligence types.

I don't see why we should take a redditor's opinion to be worth much of anything…

Even if you believe that everything outside Christ is a heresy, there is still an "argument" being made by the Fallen Angels orienting humanity into the era of transhumanism.

This.

Read up on quantum computing, the calculations are literally done in another dimension, you put the equations in the black box and solutions fall out and "scientists" literally have no idea how and and why that works.

Then read up on CERN and how they openly admit that they opened a portal into another dimension (sic) and how they're communicating with an "entity" (now who might that be I wonder) and the case of fallen ones using tech to lead us towards doom is pretty hot.

Wow you are awesome, thank you so much for taking what I said seriously, and conveying this new information to me.

Steve Quayle says that the Deep State is already involved in a quest to "conquer God" through black physics and transhumanist engineering.

Here you can see how the serpent's promise that "ye shall be as gods, knowing good from evil" basically means that we will be free developers of Natural Law.

Here one recalls Crowley's prophecy that "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

I understand that this is a Christian board but you need to be capable of grasping the nature of the New Age or "Aeon." Arguably, the Most High is a political matter; that's why he's the "Lord of Hosts," relying on armies to sustain his power.

The Christian thinks that the power is sustained by the indubitable wisdom of God. But then why does Jesus come as a "thief"?

555 get
This arguably culminates in the War of Gog of Magog, prophesied in Islam to be the waging of war against the heavenly hosts surrounding the Earth.

If you want to futher delve into this you might wanna research the Collins Elite and Operation Often but be warned, sleep becomes a scarce commodity after you've done so.

Here's a bit to get you started.

“During the late 1960s, the CIA experimented with mediums in an attempt to contact and possibly debrief dead CIA agents. These attempts, according to Victor Marchetti, a former high-ranking CIA official, were part of a larger effort to harness psychic powers for various intelligence-related missions that included utilizing clairvoyants to divine the intentions of the Kremlin leadership,” wrote Dr. Nelson Pacheco and Tommy Blann in their book Unmasking the Enemy.

It was also as a result of this series of CIA experiments with mediums, Robert Manners told me, that a shocking and terrifying discovery was made, a discovery that supported the beliefs and theories of the Collins Elite, and which also saw their operational abilities and scope increased. Manners pointed out that it is critical to be aware of the time frame of this new development: within the shadowy world of espionage, very strange things of a truly occult-like and demonic nature were pressing ahead during the late 1960s and early 1970s. And to understand and appreciate the precise nature of the matter, Manners said, it’s necessary to delve into the world of Dr. Sidney Gottleib.

A product of New York’s Bronx, Gottleib obtained a Ph.D. in chemistry from the California Institute of Technology and a Master’s degree in speech therapy. Then in 1951 he was offered the position as head of the Chemical Division of the CIA’s Technical Services Staff (TSS), a job that focused to a great extent on two issues: the development of lethal poisons for use in clandestine assassination operations, and understanding, harnessing, and manipulating the human brain—mind-control, in other words. It was Gottleib’s work in these fields that led him to become known within the U.S. Intelligence community as the “Black Sorcerer.” It proved to be a very apt title indeed. In April 1953, Gottlieb began coordinating the work of the CIA’s MKULTRA project, which was activated on the orders of the CIA Director Allen Dulles. Gottlieb routinely administered LSD, as well as a variety of other psychoactive drugs to unwitting subjects as he sought to develop “techniques that would crush the human psyche to the point that it would admit anything.” attempts. He also worked on a project to have Iraq’s General Abdul Karim Qassim’s handkerchief contaminated with botulinum, and he played a role in the CIA’s attempt to assassinate Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba of the Congo. In the summer of 1960, Gottlieb himself secretly transported certain “toxic biological materials” to the CIA’s field-station in the Congo. As fate would have it, however, a military coup deposed the Prime Minister before agents were able to unleash the deadly virus. (2) Almost a decade later, Gottleib began delving into far darker areas. In 1969, Robert Manners revealed to me, a unit of scientists attached to the CIA’s Office of Research and Development dared to follow the path the TSS had taken a decade-and-a-half earlier in the field of mind control. But the scientists had other, far more controversial plans, several of which involved trying to invade, understand, and harness demonic powers as tools of espionage. To ensure that the project stood some chance of achieving its unusual aims, Gottleib approached Richard Helms—the CIA director from 1966 to 1973—and secured a $150,000 grant for the new project, which became known as Operation Often. The curiously named study took its title from the fact that Gottleib was well known for reminding his colleagues that: “…often we are very close to our goals then we pull back” and “…often we forget that the only scientific way forward is to learn from the past.”(3) Investigative writer Gordon Thomas said: “Operation Often’s roots could be traced back to the research Dr. [Donald Ewen] Cameron had approved in trying to establish links between eye coloring, soil conditions and mental illness.” Thomas also noted that when he was given access to Cameron’s research and notes after Cameron’s death in 1967, Gottleib was struck by the fact that “Dr. Cameron could have been on the verge of a breakthrough in exploring the paranormal. Operation Often was intended to take over the unfinished work, and go beyond—to explore the world of black magic and the supernatural.”

Certainly the most significant development came in September 1972, said Manners, when, surrounded at her home by eager-but-apprehensive players in both Operation Often and the Collins Elite, Leek entered a trance-like state, and reportedly channeled a demonic entity that described itself as Caxuulikom—a venomous, spiteful and overwhelmingly evil and negative being whose origins could be traced back to ancient Babylon, and who outrageously mocked those present, laughed and spat in their frightened faces, and bragged in a literally hysterical and maniacal fashion about the way in which the world was being fooled into believing that aliens were among us, when, in reality, the forces of the Prince of Darkness himself were readying and steadying themselves for the final confrontation with the powers of good.

Not only that, asserted Manners, but Caxuulikom informed those present that the Earth was a farm and nothing else, that energy derived from the souls of the Human Race and indeed from every living creature on the planet was being harvested as a means to feed the minions of Satan, and that the E.T. motif was merely the latest ingenious ruse under which such actions were being secretly undertaken.

What is your opinion about Yuval Harari? Apparently that guy is a big shill for transhumanism and all my boomer professors are always talking about him.

Man is not the ideal being, God specifically says in Job that the Behemoth was his greatest creation, not man

but you're not a christian, on Zig Forums you stated you weren't.

I actually just read the beginning of Sapiens recently.

I made a Twitter thread critiquing it:
twitter.com/DubiousTunic/status/1118280575499083784

Where can I read up on this? This sounds interesting as winnie the pooh

I'm aiming for absolutely free Discourse so that we can know wtf is going on. I used to be a Catholic, but I through personal spiritual experience I found that the saints were corrupt (incidentally due to a broadly Nietzschean critique about resentment; God essentially puts ignorant, resentful slaves in charge of you when you pray to the saints), so I apostatized.

I consider one of my missions to be the unearthing of this conflict, in total honesty, between the Most High and the Fallen Angels.

My next and third book will be an Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, covering all known Christian and anti-Christian argument.

Really cool, I hadn't thought of this before.

Any ideas on how it could be that the Logos is incarnate as man if man is less perfect than Behemoth?

Perhaps despite us not being as great as the behemoth in our abilities and size, we are still made in the image of God

Why would God reign in eternity as an inferior form of being?

transhumanism is liberalism iat an accelerated pace
Most of its prophets keep talking how they are going to free humanity by destroying the shackles of inequality,prejudice, and others liberal favorite buzzwords.

Right these people are essentially just mired in moral idolatry. They think that technology "advances" humanity but they fail to define what they mean by "advancement."

My personal belief is that transhumanism will exacerbate inequality and prejudice because it will reveal a Dharmic structure or caste system to Nature, akin to the "Great Chain of Being," such that the various breeds are seen to be morally unequal.

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first of all, looks fascinating OP, thanks for the free reading material, I'll read more of the book later tonight. If you haven't read pic related already, you should do so asap, as it's not only totally related to your project here, but also surprisingly prophetic considering when it was written and how things have played out in Christendom in the last few decades. Also, I know he's a bit of a meme around here for various reasons, but you should check out Jay Dyer's work, as he's covered the transhumanist issue and the deep state stuff a lot from the Orthodox Christian perspective as well.

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Thanks a lot, I appreciate your kind words and suggestion.

I really hope the book isn't too philosophically dense for the average reader. I made a Zig Forums thread about my second book, on anarchy, called Logos is Fuhrer (Christians might be interested in this too, since the political theory allows, for example, people to live directly in the Kingdom of God, with the Father providing for all our needs as we preach the Gospel, without the need for the transient State), and some people critiqued my writing style as pretentious. They thought I was aiming to sound intellectual, but that is not the reason why I write as I write. I am honestly aiming for simplicity and clarity. It's just difficult to convey complex ideas in simple language, and coming from a background in philosophy, I might assume too much philosophical adeptness on the part of the reader. Anyway, thank you again for the kind words, and maybe I will check out the recommendations.

philosophical works tend to evoke those kinds of knee-jerk reactions in people, but that's just the nature of the beast I guess. Once you realize the sort of nuance philosophers are trying to engage in, and the limitations of natural language to clearly capture certain abstract ideas, it's not surprising that people unprepared for that kind of discourse interpret it all as a bunch of sophistry.

also, since you appear to naturally be tying this phenomenon to nihilism, you might also be interested in this work:
oodegr.com/english/filosofia/nihilism_root_modern_age.htm

Thank you again.

Skimming a chapter on War against God:

This is really cool, and it would be interesting to go back over the existentialist and anarchist philosophy of rebellion against God, to see if they are tacitly adhering to a literal -heavenly rebellion- against the Most High, even as their language is clothed in a materialist denial of his existence

For my part, one thing that brought me into Christianity was the insight that faith is necessary for morality. All moral action rests on a tacit faith. Christianity merely makes this point explicit. If all our theory and action doesn't return to some faith (in some Logos), then there is no basis for anything.

I currently believe that the Logos is akin to a Discourse, like Heraclitus and Hegel said. In this way, the Most High is always in flux. As the Tao Te Ching says, "The name that can be named is not the eternal name." It also says the Tao is older than God. So how can Jesus be the eternal Beginning and End of all things?

Arguably, the great sin of Lucifer is faithlessness. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is just a lack of faith in an eternal Logos, so that men oscillate around various goods and evils, as symbolized by the winding Hermetic caduceus. Arguably, transhumanist innovation is just a manner of oscillating around various reevaluations of values in faithlessness. An eternal Logos like Jesus Christ is necessary so that all this striving comes to an end somewhere, in peace somewhere.

The other possibility, which I bring forth in my work, is that the Logos is a Discourse, so that the privileged moral perspective, the "Most High," is always in flux.

The promise that we will be like gods, knowing good and evil, is the promise that we may become reevaluators of values, in the Nietzschean sense, all the way to the bottom of Nature.

This can be seen in the case of transhumanism, which is a sort of "reevaluation of values" incurred at the level of the human body.

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I think the problem Is not so much with transhumanism but rather technology in general. I remember reading some speeches made by some spanish fascist long ago (can't remember if it was primo de rivera or other)
There was a part in wich one of them compares technology to a dog, saying that technology just like dogs are raised to help humans with certain task,(hunter dogs, herding dogs , therapy gogs,etc.) and that if technology keeps going forward without standards or guidance then it will become a band east that will bite the hand of humanity, and I think there's some truth to that because who's the master now? It seems that people have become slave of their own creations.

I mean when you have shit like this
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6710751/Transgender-women-birth-time-thanks-pioneering-womb-transplants.html


Is the rason why I believe that technology must be put under some limits at least, we can no longer have this technological pogress without standards and moral guidance.

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fug, I meant to say "beast"

Arguably transhumanism is just the contemporary iteration of the problem of the Fruit of Knowledge. In a previous era, with Ancient technology, the problem was embodied in the Tower of Babel, which God destroyed. Will God likewise destroy the transhumanists? Will it be just if and when he does so? Was the Deluge just?

In the Lost Book of Og the Giant, Baal and Yahweh are waging war against one another. On the side of Baal are the giants, and on the side of Yahweh are circumcised men, and some circumcised giants. The dispute is resolved through the Great Flood. Steve Quayle talks about the problematic of the giants a lot. Now, perhaps Baal had a valid argument, which he embodied in his giants. Is a "Great Flood" a valid rejoinder?

Now, Jesus is said to come as a thief. Is that a valid rejoinder to the Apocalyptic power we shall attain, transhumanist or otherwise?

Arguably, Christ's coming as a thief deconstructs his claim to hegemony by faith and the ethical wisdom of his power

Do you see the might of this form of argument? I am showing that the best of us are called to the Most High in good conscience

to fight the Most High in good conscience*

…you don't become like god by making yourself into a cyborg. You aren't bending natural laws, and you aren't taking away "natural law." The cyborg body runs on natural laws (electricity, metal, so on). The brain inside it is still human and most definitely runs on natural laws.You are literally only putting a brain into a fancy box. That is it.
I don't think you actually studied philosophy there, mate.

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On one conception of the Laws of Nature, laws are extrapolations from actually-existing particular causal processes. In other words, as the orientation of the substances change, so do the Laws of Nature.

Therefore, by reorienting the substances, we reorient the Laws of Nature. This is an account of "black physics."

Now, in the case of transhumanism, we reorient the substances, so that we no longer have a human essence. Because our duty to God changes based on our essence, we may change our duty to God by changing our essence. This means that transhumanism is to change the Natural Law that applies to our form of being (Dharma).

With your cyborg example, one thing I've said repeatedly is that material innovation is not sufficient for proper transhumanism. Transhumanism must be mystical in order to achieve proper godliness.

Again, since transhumanist change is the alteration of essence, and therefore Natural Law, transhumanist engineering logically entails that we become like unto gods, knowing good and evil.

transhumanism to become god fails, because even if we get 99% there that 1% is still a infinite gap. Even if we become fully mechanical whats to say that our soul will leave us?

That's an interesting idea about the "1% gap." Arguably, this 1% gap comes about due to lack of faith in an eternal moral truth. Without some stable "Logos" to ground all our moral evolution, what if transhumanism is just a continuous flux of becoming? Then it seems like nihilism.

On the fully mechanical issue, I think you're right that if we become fully mechanical, the soul might leave us. After all, the heavy contemporary focus on materialism alienates us from the spiritual fabric of existence.

That being said, I foresee that there is a way in which cybernetics could be integrated with spiritual innovations, so that the cyborg may be a mystical being.

I once had a near-death experience (I was induced to suicide by the Deep State) and was made to run through trials in the Egyptian pantheon. When I was confronted with Osiris, he was partially cybernetic. He looked kind of like Yojimbo from Final Fantasy X.

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bump before I go to sleep, thanks for the discussion everyone

A simple jewgle search disproves this for both this claims.
I hope no one takes you seriously.

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What the heck?

We are all of one substance already, and that is God. All you are doing is playing within the same laws and rules and materials that God has already made/is consisted of, you aren't changing the orientation of anything. You don't change any laws by playing with them (Do the mathematical constants of the universe suddenly change? Do you suddenly change how biology and biological development work?). You aren't changing the soul (if it's just your brain in a fancy box, then what have you really changed about the universe, besides the fact that you have placed a brain from one set of conditions to another?).
As I said, all it'd be is changing the box. I think that the idea of changing natural laws is what gives rise to transgenderism and the BS parts of transhumanism in the first place. Transgenderism doesn't work because all it is, is the changing of the appearance of the box, and transhumanism's BS parts are where a person thinks that one becomes more-than- or less-than-human by simply changing the box. You don't become a man or woman, you become a male that looks like a female or a female that looks like a male, and likewise, you do not become a god (that implies omnipotence/omniscience, which putting your limited human brain in a fancy box, even with immediate internet connection, just really doesn't do) by putting yourself in a cyborg body, you are a necessarily limited human brain put into a fancy box. Materiality will always await you on the "other side" and shove right into your face that you're just a human.

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I think this Spinozist account is largely correct.

Two things:

First, even while Nature determines any change to Nature, there is still a real sense in which we are changing "Nature," even "Natural Law." For if we change our essence, we change our conatus or telos.

Second, I think that in proper transhumanism, it won't be merely a matter of putting the brain in a fancy box. That is because proper transhumanism would be mystical, rather than purely materialistic. While contemporary transhumanists are aiming at a form of materialistic so-called "advancement," which cannot achieve true godliness, advancement into the New Aeon may bring about a form of transhumanism that is properly godlike, seeing AI and cybernetics as one component of advancement which can be integrated with mystical wisdom, rather than seeing computation as the sole means of "advancement."

One way of seeing this is that the one "substance," God, is constantly in flux, so that it is actually a rationalistic misnomer to call it a "substance." God is more of a Discourse. Today, we may hoist the Discourse to change Natural Law by our own volition. This is essentially to achieve a form of godliness, "knowing good from evil."

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MKULTRA went around college campuses in the early 70s, probably before >>808623's parents were even born. Anyone today claiming to be a subject of MKULTRA who isn't in their 60s is a liar.

Arguably that research went somewhere. People all over the Internet are complaining of remote neural monitoring. Maybe they are crazy but maybe they aren't.

I wouldn't say "crazy". I'd more say "attention whoring" or "lacking personal responsibility".
… or aliens or Jews or immigrants or whatever.

Here's a recent Steve Quayle interview 10 minutes
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=107&v=k7-UxBiIE1I

It's well documented that the operation didnt stop and went to canada to keep experimenting. Just like operation mockingbird never stopped.

Just another heretic drunk in his own pride.

i devoted my life to the study of ethics and this is where I ended up

Nothing wrong with what you're doing, keep it up!

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[-]

Philosophy user, fi you are still there, I wanted to ask you
What do you think of genetic determinists?
I've seen them poping everywhere from the left to the right.

I already seen many atheists in Zig Forums saying that genetics is everything others go to extreme to say that the white poor class is nothing but dead weight because of IQ, meanwhile in leftypol i've seen others proposing for genetic manipulation, China is already doing this btw.

Silly question maybe but what's the difference between transhumanism and things like taking medicines/heart transplant etc?

Well this is interesting considering I only just finished my first playthrough of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I chose to go with the Sarif Ending, an ending where the boundless potential of human augmentation is fully protected and corporations are free to experiment with human augmentation to their heart's desire. I chose this ending because I see augmentation as an extension of medicine and I don't think medicine is "playing God". I think God would want us to respect life and protect it by aiding those in need of help and would want us to help ourselves through these advancements if possible. This means helping those that would benefit from augmentation too.

I don't understand the basis of your argument: that transhumanism means rejecting human nature. Surely, even after a person replaces their limb with an prosthetic one, they're still just as prone to all of their old sins as before? Surely, their human nature remains intact?

Do you have any evidence of this?

Finally, I just want to conclude by saying that a "non-Christian Logos" in my eyes would have to be Satan.

Replacing a limb is fine because it still does the same function. Augmenting it however, is a different case.

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My limb isn't a conscious, sentient being. I however, am. My limb is a tool that I use at times to grab a lighter so I can light the cooker and warm my food. If I could augment my limb so that my index finger could also function as a lighter, nothing has really changed. I'm still using my limb to light the cooker, one method is just more convenient than the other.

Also, your image seems to concern the singularity. I believe that if you're a Christian, you will reject the Singularity in favour of eternity with God however, augmentation is not the singularity and so I believe it to be in itself, harmless.

Link to thread?

My limb isn't a conscious, sentient being
imdb.com/title/tt0138510/