How do Christians choose one version of Christianity over another? How can all of you be so certain that your Bible is 100% accurate and that other Bible is not? How can you be sure that you are actually putting your faith in God himself, and not simply the word of other men? I am willing and able to accept the general worldview of Christianity as true, what I can't understand is how can one know which books are the true word of God and Christ and which are tainted? If they are all written by men, how can you put your faith in them and call it faith in God? Clearly some details were made up by men, and most are wse words written with good intentions, but how do you… Find certainty? Faith? Truth? I think Christianity is more or less the truth, but how do you know which sources on the subject are trustworthy and which aren't? How can you all be so sure of the specific versions you chose to beleive? I'm finding myself lost in life lately and have had these questions most of my life, but never found good answers. I come from a Christian background have been pretty agnostic my entire life. I do absolutely beleive there is a God at least, but I don't have any firm beliefs on who or what God is exactly. I'm genuinely lost and looking for help here.
Lost and confused
lurkmoar
Don't listen to establishment politically religious or religious politicians.
I appreciate the info, I'll read it all and respond when I have more time. Please don't sage, I am being genuine. I'm also curious as to what Zig Forumss rebutal is to Christianity being a form of Jewish proto-communism that justifies race mixing and rejects hierarchy and ownership of property. I'm not arguing these things nor have I formed an opinion on the subject yet. I just want to hear both sides. Screencaps and infographs are welcome, you don't have to waste time typing for me if you have the information on hand.
I don't whatsoever. I'm not up to speed on current events and politics at all nor do I want to be anymore. I don't even watch TV. I'm trying to focus on my life, my loved ones, and the environment around me that I can affect.
After skimming this, it looks like proof of what I already beleived; that Christ and his resurrection were in fact real. That's not what I am questioning though. Did you even read my post?
That's why I posted it - to assure you that He did indeed rise from the dead. Daniel, Isaiah, and David's Psalms have lots of Messianic prophesies, fulfilled by Jesus–these people were writing far, far before the Israelites could even understand how God could save the Gentiles.
This is rank nonsense and I'll tell you why. Under the Church, all of Europe was unified, but each Kingdom had its own customs, norms, etc. It also civilized the savage northerners; it did not destroy identity, it reinforced it. The Tower of Babel is anti-thetical to Christianity. And how could it be communist? Communism enforces atheism.
The modern religion called "Judaism" is defined by the conscious rejection of Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus would have called himself a word that's usually translated as "Jew" today, but He had almost nothing in common with the modern peoples who call themselves "Jews."
A lot of people see that Christianity is incompatible with capitalism and conclude that it must be communist. This is nonsense. Christianity pre-dates both capitalism and communism by centuries and centuries and centuries, and it's incompatible with both of them. For a good look at what genuinely Christian economic systems look like, look into Medieval and Renaissance Europe.
No. All the commandments regarding racemixing that can be found in the Bible explicitly recommend not doing it. At worst, you could argue that Christianity doesn't actively oppose racemixing. But it certainly doesn't encourage it either.
Definitely not. If that were the case, feudalism would never have taken off in Christian Europe. Christianity is strongly pro-hierarchy. We call Christ our King because the title of king is assumed to be something worthy of respect. And of course there are many Churches with very clearly laid-out hierarchies which their followers are expected to respect. From priest to bishop to pope, for example.
Not necessarily. There are some Christians who are called to give away all their property and to follow Jesus in a special way, but not everyone receives this calling. We are, however, expected to "despise" our property. This doesn't mean to hate inanimate objects; it just means that if we are ever called on to give away our property for the service of God, we should be able to do so gladly and without hesitation. Abraham, for example, was a righteous man with great sums of property, but he was righteous because he wouldn't withhold any part of it from God, not even his own son.
first and foremost, i must say that Christ didn't preach about any earthly kingdom or govenrment, even as an ardent monarchist myself! Christ told us about the kingdom of Heaven and how to reach it. Any one saying otherwise doesn't know what he's talking about. That being said…
>justifies race mixing and rejects hierarchy and ownership of property.
First on race mixing: in my opinion does not prohibit nor condones it- you're free to make your choice with God given reason.
Second, hierarchy and ownership: The hierarchy part is laughable since that's not what we find in the gospel at all, since Christ himself says to Pilate that his power is God-given, Christ is called King of kings and Lord of lords. And that's not what we find in history at all- Europe had strong christian and hierarchial roots in the middle ages.
Property: We can say there's nothing wrong with having goods but we have to put the spiritual and eternal above our earthly things.
Thanks, I appreciate this. My main question still stands though: how can Christians be certain that their version of Christianity is accurate and all others are tainted? For instance, how can so many take the KJV seriously and literally given its history? We know for a fact it was adulterated by King James, so how can a Christian justify accepting the word of King James as if it were the word of God? This is just one example. What am I missing?
It's not my argument, just one I have heard and would like to gear both sides. I'll pull up some of the screencaps and such when I get home. I have folders with arguments for and against Christianity, but I don't know enough about Christianity to draw any firm conclusions from them myself. I do find it suspicious that jews generally hate Christians though. That alone is enough to add to my suspicion that Christianity is indeed the truth.
Thank you everyone, this is all very reassuring. I'll have to show you some of the agruments I've seen once I get home so you guys can help me understand why they are bullshit.
However, my main question still goes without do much as an acknowledgement. How do you know which Bible, and which denomination is true? How can you be sure?
There's no simple answer to this. Every denomination has its own arguments for why it's more true than the others. Catholics, for example, claim an unbroken line of popes, bishops, and traditions from the time of the Apostles. But other denominations have different arguments for themselves. It's certainly a matter that should be taken with a great deal of research and prayer.
What do you mean by adulterated? Not even a KJV guy here, but KJV isn't so very different from other English-translated Bibles. Regardless of its history, all it is is a translation of the same Greek and Latin Bible texts that all English translations were made from in those days. Yes, there are some versions that exclude certain books from canon, but the parts that are included, at least, are accurate translations.
Deuteronomy 7:
1When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. a Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you
How can this carry any authority though? Especially when the pope today directly contradicts so many things previously established by the catholic church and other denominations? Regardless, all these people are simply men. How in the hell does this not make catholicism simply idolatry by definition? If the Bible is the word of God, who is the pope to override it? Why do poeple act like the word of pope is the word of God? If that's not idolatry, then how and why is it not exactly?
On this note, isn't the Bible mostly various quotes and stories from different men? How much of it is actually the word of Christ himself, and how can one call themselves a Christian while following words that primarily come from people other than Christ? Why should treat anything John or anyone else said as infallible? I asked these kind of questions as a young child and it only made adults angry which made me reject and rebel for years. I want answers now though. I suspect the Christians I grew up with simply were not very intelligent and didn't really understand their own faith. I'm hoping some of you are more intelligent and understand it better than they did.
My understanding was that he made some modifications to justify his own rule, at the very least. I forget the details, but I was hoing someone more familiar with the topic could chime in.
But that is simply the word of some man named Deuteronomy. What does Christ himself say? How much of Christianity is actually the word of Christ, and not people claiming to be his followers and representatives?
Deuteronomy is Scripture. The Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible, also known as the Books of Moses) are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. This is pre-Messianic. The Old Covenant that the Israelites followed was fulfilled and perfected by Jesus. The ministry of Jesus is contained in the four Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. If you were to read the Bible, I'd recommend reading Genesis + the Gospels first, you'll have some idea of the general narrative of the Bible.
All Apostolic Churches have 99% the same doctrine. The Apostles were and are representatives of Christ because He Himself gave them this authority. And Apostles passed this authority to their disciples and successors via the imposition of hands (the sacrament of holy orders ie priesthood)
As st. Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 4
And those successors have kept the tradition alive, as charged by st. Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2
And 2 Timothy 2
You want to interpret the Bible for yourself? You want to claim you know better? You want to trust pastor Leroy? You can do that I guess.
Oh and of course 1 Corinthians 11
Don't forget 2 Peter 1:20.
This. Every week we get a "which denom should I join" thread, which always devolve into /v/-tier interdenominational flame wars. I advise OP to lurk for at least some two weeks and then come with better questions.
Well, none of us will ever be is the simple answer. Apostolic Christianity is pretty clear on the fact that 1) even our best motives are somewhat impure and 2) that we may say for certain that Jesus Christ is the ultimate authority. If schismatics thought this way, distrusting themselves in everything as the Apostle Paul urges us they would never schism.
Therefore I have this suggestion for you; if your family has typically identified with a certain branch of Christianity, go to them, and if they preach the Gospel, and don't deny free-will and personal agency or the Trinity, then stay with them. Do not move to another denomination unless you have a strong moral objection that their arguments cannot overcome. Listen carefully, fear God and cultivate faith. You cannot go far wrong in this way, and if anything I've said is wrong, anyone is free to correct me.
on a side note, we do have this thread every week, but it's ok, pic only semi-related
there is slavery in BIBLE
perhaps there was no need to put specifically race mixing into bible as, you can feel disgust or repulsion to it.
i made some further research into this and behold!
this could help you to narrow down the picture:
20:10. If any man commit adultery with the wife of another, and defile his neighbour’s wife: let them be put to death, both the adulterer and the adulteress.
20:11. If a man lie with his stepmother, and discover the nakedness of his father, let them both be put to death: their blood be upon them.
20:12. If any man lie with his daughter in law: let both die, because they have done a heinous crime. Their blood be upon them.
20:13. If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination: let them be put to death. Their blood be upon them.
20:14. If any man after marrying the daughter, marry her mother, he hath done a heinous crime. He shall be burnt alive with them: neither shall so great an abomination remain in the midst of you.
20:15. He that shall copulate with any beast or cattle, dying let him die: the beast also ye shall kill. The beast also ye shall kill. . .The killing of the beast was for the greater horror of the crime, and to prevent the remembrance of such abomination.
20:16. The woman that shall lie under any beast, shall be killed together with the same. Their blood be upon them.
20:17. If any man take his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother, and see her nakedness, and she behold her brother’s shame: they have committed a crime. They shall be slain, in the sight of their people, because they have discovered one another’s nakedness. And they shall bear their iniquity.
20:18. If any man lie with a woman in her flowers, and uncover her nakedness, and she open the fountain of her blood: both shall be destroyed out of the midst of their people.
20:19. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy aunt by thy mother, and of thy aunt by thy father. He that doth this, hath uncovered the shame of his own flesh: both shall bear their iniquity.
20:20. If any man lie with the wife of his uncle by the father, or of his uncle by the mother, and uncover the shame of his near akin, both shall bear their sin. They shall die without children.
20:21. He that marrieth his brother’s wife, doth an unlawful thing: he hath uncovered his brother’s nakedness. They shall be without children.
18:7. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother: she is thy mother, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:8. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father’s wife: for it is the nakedness of thy father.
18:9. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy sister by father or by mother: whether born at home or abroad.
18:10. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy son’s daughter, or thy daughter’s daughter: because it is thy own nakedness.
18:11. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father’s wife’s daughter, whom she bore to thy father: and who is thy sister.
18:12. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father’s sister: because she is the flesh of thy father.
18:13. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother’s sister: because she is thy mother’s flesh.
18:14. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father’s brother: neither shalt thou approach to his wife, who is joined to thee by affinity.
18:15. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: because she is thy son’s wife, neither shalt thou discover her shame.
18:16. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother’s wife: because it is the nakedness of thy brother.
18:17. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy wife and her daughter. Thou shalt not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to discover her shame: because they are her flesh, and such copulation is incest.
18:18. Thou shalt not take thy wife’s sister for a harlot, to rival her: neither shalt thou discover her nakedness, while she is yet living.
18:19. Thou shalt not approach to a woman having her flowers: neither shalt thou uncover her nakedness.
18:20. Thou shalt not lie with thy neighbour’s wife: nor be defiled with mingling of seed.
18:21. Thou shalt not give any of thy seed to be consecrated to the idol Moloch, nor defile the name of thy God. I am the Lord.
18:22. Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination.
18:23. Thou shalt not copulate with any beast: neither shalt thou be defiled with it. A woman shall not lie down to a beast, nor copulate with it: because it is a heinous crime.
and behold!
this one may interest you:
meaning of the term mingle - wordnik.com
interesting ones are in yellow:
To mix; blend; combine intimately; form a combination of.
To form by mixing or blending; combine the parts or ingredients of; compound or concoct.
To bring into relation or association; connect or conjoin.
To be or become joined, combined, or mixed; enter into combination or intimate relation: as, to mingle with society; oil and water will not mingle.
To be formed by mixingor blending.
transitive verb To mix; intermix; to combine or join, as an individual or part, with other parts, but commonly so as to be distinguishable in the product; to confuse; to confound.
transitive verb To associate or unite in society or by ties of relationship; to cause or allow to intermarry; to intermarry.
transitive verb obsolete To put together; to join.
transitive verb To make or prepare by mixing the ingredients of.
verb To associate or unite in society or by ties of relationship; to cause or allow to intermarry; to intermarry.
verb obsolete : To put together; to join. Shakespeare.
verb To make or prepare by mixing the ingredients of.
interpret it as you will.
do not let any other corrupted meat do it for you.
i will also add my favorite related ones:
4:1. How beautiful is the chaste generation with glory: for the memory thereof is immortal: because it is known both with God and with men.
4:2. When it is present, they imitate it: and they desire it, when it hath withdrawn itself, and it triumpheth crowned for ever, winning the reward of undefiled conflicts.
4:3. But the multiplied brood of the wicked shall not thrive, and bastard slips shall not take deep root, nor any fast foundation.
4:4. And if they flourish in branches for a time, yet standing not fast, they shall be shaken with the wind, and through the force of winds they shall be rooted out.
4:5. For the branches not being perfect, shall be broken, and their fruits shall be unprofitable, and sour to eat, and fit for nothing.
4:6. For the children that are born of unlawful beds, are witnesses of wickedness against their parents in their trial.
4:7. But the just man, if he be prevented with death, shall be in rest.
4:8. For venerable old age is not that of long time, nor counted by the number of years: but the understanding of a man is grey hairs.
now, back to your original questions.
you are the one who has to bend the knee to accept the hierarchy.
i have no idea where did you get this one from, but i'm not surprised how confused people can get.
of course you cannot.
but there are not so many options to choose from either, so you can go through them all.
the oldest comprehensible english translations are KJV, Douay-Rheims, Wycliffe's Bible.
there are latin, greek, hebrew sources, some sources from which the english translations, such as DR were made are lost.
some translations take different approach, such as word for word, thus less comprehensible, but as close to the original structure of the sentences as possible.
the rest is modern thing, such as ESV - if you dare, i would avoid them.
it's not so important what BIBLE you pick up in the beginning, but to start and reflect.
Patience, user, you're just gonna have to lurk moar.
pasting content from similar discussion in:
>>>8ch.net
i will expand on this, because one could jump to the conclusion of the meaning of a word seed.
consider these verses below too, specifically chain of:
impure seed of a tree, which produces > root of a tree, which produces > bastard branches, which shall be rooted out
Its usually they're born into it.
I am a hapa, which means basically any idea of having children for me would mean "mingling of seed". What the Piglet do I do?
edwardfeser.blogspot.com
Philosopher going in depth on specifically how
just don't make any life based decisions and refer to me as your adviser during judgment day.
perhaps it's only mistranslated or you have made incorrect conjecture.
try to get to the source.
but even then, would you do what you feel is right rather than what book tells you to do?
Pick the one that makes the most sense to you and don't forget to PRAY for guidance. God will never forsake a soul genuinely looking for the truth.
That quote is fake, iirc
John 1: 1- 14 The Word is God and not in paper You will find the truth in him alone..What bible did the Apostles read?
Just rule out the ones that have logical and theological flaws and you'll have the truth
Then Jesus breathing on the Apostles for them to receive the Holy Spirit and other Biblical evidence/foreshadowing of the Filioque and the papal office (Among other things) rules out Orthodoxy, leaving you with Catholicism.
You're right, but you're forgetting you splintered off Orthodoxy
Oh, Suddenly the pope had the power to create grace, makes perfect sense. If the pope can create grace, then salvation can come from following the pope, and if salvation can come from following the pope, why would he have a personal reason to remain in the truth? And why wouldn't power seeking people try to acquire that seat? Oh look they did, and the Reformation was the result.
Savonarola did nothing wrong.
Pray for guidance. Once you have the Holy Spirit, all your questions answer themselves