Hello. I'm exploring the faith. I go to daily mass, tithe and say the rosary.
I've not been baptized. I'm hesitant to become a Catholic because I'm in Germany. I've been to many churches and essentially every parish tells me the same thing: it doesn't matter if it's trans-, consubstantiation or annihilation, all Christians should receive the Eucharist together. Latin Mass is only once every two weeks because the Bishop forbade doing it weekly.
If I get baptized I would have to pay ten percent tax on my income to the German Catholic Church, even though I tithe generously every Mass.
I understand that my soul is in peril as long as I'm not baptized but I can't I'm good conscience support the heretical homilies I'm hearing every day, advocating for ecumenism, female priests and married priests.
I pray you not judge me and instead tell me what you would do in my situation.
Catholicism in Germany
Hello. I'm exploring the faith. I go to daily mass, tithe and say the rosary.
Pic unrelated, it's a church nearby, though I'm an idiot and didn't know it would turn out sideways.
FWIW it's always been the laity who have kept the faith alive when the hierarchy goes rotten, see eg the Arian crisis.
If I were in your shoes I'd convert. Maybe stop tithing altogether if your income is taxed directly. You can only keep you and yours on the right path, just be glad you have the Latin mass at all. The entire situation does sound awful though.
In your situation? I would probably go SSPX. Germany (because of the state church system) is probably the most modernist, heretical group of "Catholics" controlled by baby boomers. Here are locations:
Don't listen to those that bloviate about the SSPX being schismatic,
a) They literally are having a Novus Ordo Bishop (Bishop Huonder) join. Why would Pope Francis allow him to join schismatics and cut himself off from the Church?
b) They would have supplied jurisdiction anyways, if you are around nothing but heretical "Catholics" (you are) going to an orthodox SSPX priest that has a proper formation is the best option to save your soul. If you go to these heretical priests, often times during confession they will tell you certain things are not a sin AND they will flub the words of absolution, which makes it totally invalid.
And another thing: send a letter rebuking these heretical Bishops that forbid the Latin Mass. Tell them about Quo Primum, and how it codified the Latin Mass AND the traditional Sacraments FOREVER. It says that any pastor (of any rank! meaning also Bishops, Popes) cannot forbid these, and, furthermore, anyone doing so would incur the wrath of God and the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul. With Summorum Pontificum, you can also try sending a letter to a priest requesting him to perform the Latin Mass whenever he can, tell him also about Quo Primum + Auctorem Fidei and that no Bishop can even dare to make such things forbidden. It's outside his authority. God bless.
Thank you, brother. I seem to be away from most of them but there's one a 45 minute train ride away. I can do that.
I would like a spiritual director but again, like you said, I'm not sure how wise that is with the priests around me. I have SSA and I'm very certain they would encourage me along those lines of, "all love comes from God" and such. I'm trying to follow a contemplative path as recommended by the saints.
Your soul is near to your heart, and it sounds like your heart is in good judgement. I would look at other churches too, just because Cathalocism is main stream and large doesn't mean it's always the correct path. "it's not your religion I want, it's your heart" says God
I'm glad I was able to help, brother. Try to contact the chapel and ask for a priest to talk to/meet with. You can explain your situation, dissatisfaction with liberal diocesan churches, etc. I also, about two years ago, shamefully, used to lust after traps and masturbate often. I overcame my desires by praying all 15 decades of the Rosary daily, praying the Saint Michael Chaplet, and praying often for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin, Archangels, and Saint Joseph. Pray the Confiteor and Hail Mary frequently. I hope you can convert and overcome your desires. Remember to pray to the Holy Ghost if you feel lost.
I WISH TO OBJECT
While I still long for company I've had no urge to sin against purity once I began to attend Mass. I dislike all the NO singing but despite it all, there's some power in attending daily or at least regular mass that makes it very hard to willingly defile yourself. You really have to go out of your way to tempt yourself.
I've read that you can't pray the rosary daily and stay a sinner. I think it's similar with going to mass.
I moved to Germany recently and second the SSPX advice. In my case I also had a good FSSP church nearby. I've been to novus ordo masses as well which did all kind of things I hadn't seen before like some woman giving the homily and stuff like that. I don't know what is going on in this country.
SSPX is not in full communion with Rome.
FSSP is in full communion with Rome.
To advise Catholics to attend SSPX is to doom them to hellfire and damage their salvation.
The Catholic Church does not preach universalism nor does it ordain female priests. Further, the TLM didn't need to be saved by anyone because it is still 100% in use by the Catholic Church as the extraordinary form of Mass.
You clearly know nothing about the NO or the Catholic Church. Stop false flagging, Protestant.
I actually watched a video about this today from Fr. Chad.
Please give it a listen user, it talks about tithing when coming across heresy and the like.
Catholicism is a false sect of Christianity. It is just paganism with Jesus built on top. winnie the pooh the pope and all who worship that demon. Orthodoxy is Christianity, not Catholicism.
You know it's a sin to false flag as a denom that you are not, right?
An sspx Church is likely the only place where you can find a non heretical priest in Germany.
Avoid FSSP if possible
Thank you for all the replies. After all the resources you have given me, it seems the one closest to me is SSPX and one hour by train. I can do that at least on Sunday.
I feel strange listening to the regular priests here
Maybe, but the priests and bishops where I live are in full communion and while they do not yet ordain female priests, they advocate for them in their homilies, as well as for universalism. I find this confusing as someone who is new to the faith.
They are in full communion with Rome so of course I, as a sponge layman who is trying to learn, will believe that this is indeed what the Church teaches.
If priests in the Church are known to preach heresy, the solution is to learn more about the Church teaching from other sources, not schism or, at best, put yourself and others in danger of schism
If your priest is preaching heresy, then they can be reported; but you better be prepared with actual proof.
Where in Germany do you live?
As with the whole of Germany it's thoroughly pozzed, including but not limited to the Church hierarchy.
One of my priests is a kind of "priest gone rogue" from Germany.
He's in complete communion, but his diocese practically sacked him because he was…well, catholic.
This is actually not something the bishop can forbid because of Summorum Pontificium, but yeah not that the bishops care.
Get baptized by a priest in good standing.
If none is available, go look for one.
Just do not get yourself registered as to not pay any taxes to these heretics.
You could also just get yourself baptized, written in as catholic and then unregister you at the state as a catholic.
If all else fails, go and look for a good catholic layperson and let him baptize you.
Normally this is verboten to avoid abuses and bad baptizing practices but anybody can baptize a person.
You need flowing, clean water and the Trinitarian formula "I baptize you, Alfred Hofmann, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and either submerging you completely three times for every person of the Holy Trinity or pouring water over your head three times for the same reason if no body of water is available.
This person's option is probably your best bet however.
Thank you. I'll consider what you wrote.
I'm not sure what the people above are on about. Who'll teach me if not the local spiritual directors? And what kind of proof? Do you want me to record their homilies with my phone and report that stuff to their bishops that teach the same stuff? I'm not so sure you know what it's like in Germany right now.
Have you considered moving to Austria?
I know it's drastic, but it's about all I can think of given the state of Germany's clergy and political climate.
It has nothing to do with the political climate.
The problem is that OP wants to join the state church - a tradition, which goes back to Constantin the Great. So it was always this way.
State church is a nice institution you join, when you expect political, professional and economical advantages from it. You don't need to believe, in fact most German Christians don't even show up in mass.
To practice Christian faith for real in Germany, you join a state-independent free church instead.
The State Church in Germany is primarily Lutheran, State Church in that part of Europe was moved to Austria-Hungary,, which is far more historically Catholic than Germany at this point. Hence my suggestion.
I said Austria specifically because I'm assuming OP only knows German and English.
Yes, the reformation happened in Germany, but that doesn't change the institutional status of the RCC in Germany. It goes back to Rome.
It's what confuses OP as he is exploring the faith. But you join state church only when you parents let you baptize as an infant or for political (you want to run for presidency in Bavaria), professional (your job requires it) or societal (you're the village outcast otherwise) reasons. And of course, you don't go to mass afterwards, except when you're 80 years old already.
Sorry, I was referring to the HRE.
So, you're basically telling him to become protestant?
What are you talking about? Catholicism is in the minority, and one of that is linked to it. This is conspiratorial bs.
All I'll say is that if you're looking for devout Catholics, you're better off looking outside of Germany.
I'm telling OP to join a free church if he is interested in actually practicing faith instead of "fitting in" for career advancement.
Denomination is free to choose of course.
Catholicism is the religion with the largest membership in Germany. By 2011 there were 23,311,321 Roman Catholics in Germany, which is the biggest religious group before 21,535,858 Evangelicals.
For comparison: The various Orthodox Churches of Germany have roundabout 2 million members. And there are officially 5 million Muslims.
Germany's Catholics are real Catholics as anywhere else, even if you personally don't like it.
You cannot propose a fictional church full of "devout" believers and simple negate the existence of the real thing founded by St. Peter. This is a trick dictators liked to pull of as well, when communist fiction clashed with reality.
What happens in the Roman Catholic Church in Germany IS Catholic by definition. The RCC is infallible. If OP wants to become Catholic, he has to go along with it and NOT look elsewhere.
K… but they're the minority of the population still. They don't control everything anymore than Catholics do in America. Also, Germany is more atheistic compared to Austria.
58 % of the population of Germany is Christian.
They are distributed along federal states with either a Catholic and Protestant majority for a reason.
You urgently want to do some catch up on European history beyond WW2, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
The colloquial bastardization of the term Christian =/= Christian
Catholic = Christian
So you're stat doesn't matter to me.
It's funny how quickly one can lure Satan into denouncing Christians.
Spotted the Anti-Christian!
You're in luck there mate, the Internet was/is my prime source of catechism and study.
Heck, I learned a lot from this board.
I'm not denouncing Christians, I'm denouncing heretics pretending to be Christians.
Wolves among sheep if you will
Let's remember not to put any blame on the laypeople though. They are not responsible for being poorly catechized–I don't expect every lay person to truly understand the four creeds and all the councils. The responsibility to teach the Catholic faith ultimately falls on the clergy. If the clergy are failing, don't blame a normal person for not going out of his way to learn the entire Catholic corpus.
Christians are followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. It's in the name.
The Pope acknowledged that and His Holiness is infallible.
So your stance is anti-Christian and anti-Catholic as well.
You're twisting catholic doctrine to fit your view. Protestants are not considered Christians in the catholic church. That like European history and theology 101. The only other denomination considered Christians are orthodox and even then they're considered heterodox in the eyes of the church.
If you're not a Roman Catholic, you're just as lost as those Aztec pagan tribesmem worshipping a snake. Repent.
I tried searching this and couldn't find anything. Do you have proof of this?
We've had wars over this!
We had wars over Protestants and so on being heretics, schismatics, etc., but claiming they aren't even Christians? Got any quotes (e.g. from catechisms or councils) or logical arguments to support this?
Heresy = Nonchristian.
Noncatholic = Nonchristian
Catholicism is the only true form of Christianity. We may be forced to humor them, but their faith is worthless to us.
St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas". "The right Christian faith consists in giving one's voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are, therefore, two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ's doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. The subject-matter of both faith and heresy is, therefore, the deposit of the faith, that is, the sum total of truths revealed in Scripture and Tradition as proposed to our belief by the Church. The believer accepts the whole deposit as proposed by the Church; the heretic accepts only such parts of it as commend themselves to his own approval. The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness–free choice–is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material. On the other hand the will may freely incline the intellect to adhere to tenets declared false by the Divine teaching authority of the Church. The impelling motives are many: intellectual pride or exaggerated reliance on one's own insight; the illusions of religious zeal; the allurements of political or ecclesiastical power; the ties of material interests and personal status; and perhaps others more dishonourable. Heresy thus willed is imputable to the subject and carries with it a varying degree of guilt; it is called formal, because to the material error it adds the informative element of "freely willed".
Let's get back on topic, OP here.
I can tell some of you say to just join but it seems like you don't really know what church is like here. It's not that in Germany we have guitar masses or xylophones. Instead, the priests are preaching for and about homosexuality, ecumenism, female ordination and many, many, many more refugees because apparently that's what Jesus would do.
I question the wisdom of "learning on my own" - the Internet is full of misinformation, and that includes this site. I'm doing my part by reading the church fathers (in Latin!) which is why I'm intensely aware of the heresy of our priests and bishops, or rather, the contrast between the church described in those books versus the church in my country. I pray for the priests daily. However, as someone not yet baptized, I can't risk being taught or due to ignorance teaching myself wrong doctrine.
I'm aware there's this saint that said if the pope were the Antichrist we still ought to rest in his arms and obey him. I'm just not sure if this extends to the priests and bishops. Please understand: if I, an unbaptized SSA man, obey my priests it would mean to embrace sleeping with other men, advocating for communion with Protestants, defending female ordination.
It might be a risk but I think, and thank you all for your resources, that I have no choice but that SSPX parish the way things are in my country.
Please pray for Germany and for the Pope and, if you can find it in your hearts, for me, a wretched sinner.
I forgot to add that right now, in Germany, the Mary 2.0 movement is in effect. A nun and our Cardinal, Marx (that really is his name) are calling for women to not go to Sunday mass until the Vatican loosens female ordination rules. Further, he also announced that he will, with full support of the German bishops, push for relaxation of chastity rules for priests on the next Synod.
I'm from Europe brother, see my post here .
That's why I asked where you lived, I can maybe help you if you live close to Aachen.
You understand Latin?
I had Latin for 8 years in school so I understand it well enough to read it as long as I can look up a word once here and there.
Also you gave some good advice, so thank you. No, I live by Heidelberg. They have that twice a week TLM.
winnie the pooh Marxists man. They make my blood boil.
I heard from Polish news that German church will not wait for Vatican decision and basically they're planning a schism. I also heard that cardinal Marx is not supported by 100% of German bishops.
All the more reason to look into Austria… Like I already said yet got nuked for "Baiting"
I still don't see what you problem is. The Roman-Catholic church is infallible by definition. This includes the official branch in Germany.
You are protesting against it, what makes you a Protestant.
Sorry to say, but you either accept what is happening and submit to it as a Catholic, or you have become a Protestant. Simple as that.
And I was the one banned for baiting…
Now THIS is bait-racing.
baiting? It's a neutral statement of a fact.
OP is not supposed to protest against the one true Church (in Germany) if he or she wants to become a Catholic.
Because protest against a heretic, borderline schismatic church =/= Protest against Catholic Doctrine.
In fact, it's a reaffirmation of the seat of Rome.
It is not "a" church, it is THE Church.
If you move to Austria or Poland (or whatever BS you suggest), you still join the SAME one Church as a Roman-Catholic, with Cardinal Marx and everything.
Your country of residence changes nothing about that.
You are in the wrong (Protestant).
OP is in the wrong (Protestant).
Catholicism is correct.
False. The church is infallible as in the mystical body of Christ, and can't make wrong decisions in terms of doctrine, canonization, dogmas, etc. Protesting agains't cardinal marx because cardinal marx is a heretic doesn't mean you're protesting agains't the body of Christ. If he were to be protesting against an dogma or a doctrine of the church, that would be protestantism, and the loosening of the female ordination and chastity rules for priests isn't a doctrine.
Do you really think calling someone a Protestant means anything as a Catholic today? Francis says he agrees with Lutherans on justification, he issued a stamp with Luther on it, and he even put up a statue of Martin Luther in the Vatican. So your comments mean nothing.
And I thought we had it bad in the States.
… I didn't know of this, winnie the pooh is happening?
sspx my lad
I guess Catholics are the REAL Lutherans? Why would the Pope do this? What message is he trying to convey? Think about it…