E.Michael Jones destroys Luther in 40 seconds

Imagine falling for the Jewish (((MSM))) information warfare against the /Catholic Church/.
Yikes.

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And yet they are getting kicked out, exposed, and/or arrested more and more everyday. I do agree the church has been slow to do so, but God did permit the devil 100 years of bullshittery for a reason. Better late then never.

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God is punishing us for past sins and the current increase of sins. The smoke of Satan entered the Church and God have him more power on earth which is why you are also seeing the total collapse of Protestants, Baptists are turning into book idolaters who break up over the most minor things, Orthodox with the whole Russia thing and many more.

These are the reparations due to the Lord for more sins then we could ever count. The Catholic clergy was full of homosexual sinners who then committed Sacrilege by touching the Holy Body and Drinking. The precious blood with their filthy souls. Their sins were so great even demons couldn’t stand it.

Hard times make strong men. We can only pray to the Lord that the Catholics and all Christians will have strong men who will do what is right.

There is hope in all of this the Lord will provide. Rumors of children born to apostate parents who know the Lord and his laws, who observe Holy days and other requirements without any teaching.

Pray for a miracle of the Lord. Things are going to get worse before better.

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Lmao. Is this peak Roman logic and debate?

No, the debate began and ended at the Diet of Worms, and prots have never recovered

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No, this is peak Roman logic and debate:

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There is literally nothing wrong or contrary to revelation when you burn a heretic at the stake. Saint Pius V and Sixtus V solved the sodomite problem in the Church at the time by doing so.

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le gnostic boomer man

As far as I know, he doesn't. Most Catholics in America are educated with arguments against protestants, but most of us don't know or care about the East beyond the fact that there was a schism 1000 years ago.

It's discussed in this video starting at 1:01:40 but I think his understanding of history and the nuances of Church-state relations at the time period in question are somewhat askew.

rebuke me prots

Why is Jones so concerned with Protestants? Why doesn't he live jn a Catholic country if he hates everything about Protestant America? Don't Christians have enough problems in the world today without picking fights with each other? I think people really into interdenominational fighting should take another look at Romans 14

Jones is hard on Prots, hard on Jews and loves Muslims. He's extremely ignorant about Islam too. He's never even heard of the name Bukhari, which is the biggest collection of Hadiths in Islam, which even some Shias take hadiths from (They don't outright reject everything in Bukhari). Sunnis alone are around 70-90% of all Muslims, and he doesn't know this, yet has the audacity to write a book on Islam? He calls hadiths commentary on scripture which is totally false again. Hadiths are sayings of Mohammed or of people who knew him. Sometimes Mohammed explained more of the Quran but majority is not "commentary". That is Tafsir (exegesis, commentary). There are also Hadiths which are considered divine (Hadith Qudsi). He seems to be 'familiar' with Shia Islam, and then says Islam is Sola Scriptura, when of all Islam, Shia Islam, especially Twelver Shia Islam is probably the least Sola Scriptura, considering they considered there to be a line of infallible Imams (known as the Imamate) who protect the interpretation of the Quran.

He has no problem calling Martin Luther a horny monk who couldn't control himself (which is true) and then never has a single word to say against Mohammed. He acts as if Islam is this honest sort of misinterpretation or something like that. He says how many Jews have a hatred for Christianity and Christ and seek to subvert Christianity and Christians (which is true), and then pushes this idea like all Muslims are innocent and are just pawns - not like many of them have a deep hatred of Christians and Christianity too, seek to rape our women, take our land and churches and kill us. Oh no the only people who have an agenda against Christianity are Jews.

t. Catholic who agrees with his position on Jews to an extent but not on his position of Islam

t. non White majority ethnic group is Muslim

Just pointing out some of EMJ's flaws

What is the command by Christ Himself to go out and convert all the nations and preach the Gospel to all?

Yeah.
I think he likes them because they are antisemitic, so he turns a blind eye to them.
Which is why i hate when people try to form their worldview off jew-hating and anti-degeneracy, instead of Christianity.

As a sidenote, islamic "prots" are called Quranists.

I'd never criticize him outside of "our" circles, but this guy is a severely retarded stooge, or he perhaps rightly knows all his listeners are. also…

never dare to ask him what his arguments are, you nasty fool! Buy his book!!! What, do you think he's doing this interview bc he believes in something and wants others to do so?!? NO!!! BUY THE BOOK!!!! I mean, ffs, do you really think that there's no content in his massive tomes other than three or four generally poorly-formed arguments and therefore speaking two sentences on an interview would basically make it pointless to buy his shitty books?!?!? Guess what! YOU'LL NEVER KNOW UNLESS YOU BUY THE BOOK!!!!!!!

TURR HURR HURR

Yeah, there an extreme minority. On a sidenote, there is really no such thing as "Sola Scriptura" since being a Quranist/Protestant still leads you to have to come to at least a certain range of interpretation. For example a Sola Scriptura Protestant is not allowed to come to the interpretation that St. Peter is the Pope, that's not allowed. So everyone always has some form of "tradition" baked in inherently. But Sunnis and Shias both consider the Sunnah/Hadiths to be their "tradition" (even though Sunnis don't have a direct infallible source like Catholics do) and always say they are Quran+Sunnah (or Quran+Sunnah+Ahlul Bayt for Shias). Anyways it's clear he has no idea what on earth he is talking about.

His like big argument about why he knows something is always "Listen, I've been to Masshad, I've been to Mosques, they worship the same God as us etc etc". When asked about how he knew that Europe would be Africa without Christianity (I agree to an extent) his argument is "Listen, I've been to Germany, I've lived in such and such place". Like this isn't an argument. Going to a Mosque doesn't make you know jack about Islam. It's clear to anyone that has a basic understanding of Islam you don't even have a basic understanding of it.

Yeah it's always concerning about his #1 answer to a question was "I talk about this in my book xxx" and he gives his short stump speech and then says it's all in the book again.

If he truly wanted to get this information out there, he could easily upload lectures online going into more relevant details. The average person doesn't need to read 1200 pages to get important points across.

And yes I agree, E Michael Jones is definitely a good resource to get people especially hip to the JQ onto Christianity but again he has so many flaws he almost tries to make people into Islamophiles. I've seen comments on his youtube saying "We Christians have to unite with Muslims to fight against the Jews".

Also fwiw this is a very common Muslim tactic, they are crazy anti Semites (because Mohammed was OBSESSED with the Jews and became incredibly butthurt when he realized that the Jews thought he was garbage and would never accept him). Muslims love to claim that Christianity and Islam are connected (which they aren't) and they'll say "the real enemy are the Jews!". And then they'll say oh yeah and let's you know follow our scriptures. You know the Bible never says Jesus is God he is a prophet. It's Jewish influence that even made you think that Jesus is God and so on.

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Oh and yeah another place where I found loads of Muslim converts and Muslims in general was the Know More News channel. EMJ was doing another interview with them and the channel was filled with Muslim converts and such saying how well yeah Islam is the way forward and Christianity is a Jewish corruption etc etc, and there was literally no pushback from anyone else there. Basically the anti semitism of Muslims is profitable for these people and they thrive on it so they never criticize Islam. I can't stand it!

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He didn’t even “destroy” him, all he did was throw claims at him and said that Luther hated “logos”, whatever that means.

In plain words, Luther was sinful, and brought upheaval to Catholic W. Europe.

His entire anti-Logos meme is a long-winded way of saying "this is bad"

The most I've heard him say about Islam is correctly identifying it as an outgrowth of Nestorianism (cf. St. John of Damascus). He's somehow stuck in the rut of thinking that all monotheists by definition worship the same God and the only difference is the understanding of that God that even someone like Feser is somehow is able to convince himself into thinking.

"Logos" is the original Greek word for "Word" used in the verse from John that says "The Word became flesh." Jesus is understood to be the Word, or "Logos," made flesh. But Logos is one of those words that doesn't translate evenly into English, and is also understood to mean "reason". Basically, he's saying that Martin Luther hated reason and therefore also hated Jesus.

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Pretending that Protestants are not Christians is just as ignorant as saying Catholics are pagans.

Everything else I've said about him and Islam is stuff he's said in recent interviews. His willingness to trash Luther but not say a word about Mohammed is quite telling. All these white AntiSemite(lites) benefit a lot from a Mohammedan audience, so it's probably a reason why they are so soft on Islam.

From a Catholic point of you, you don't need to know one word of the Gospel to be considered a "Christian", just if you were baptized as a baby. So saying we need to preach the Gospel to Protestants is fully in line with Catholic theology, because many of them are unaware (from our perspective) of the Gospel.

In addition, majority really religious conservative Protestants do consider Catholics to basically be pagans. I'm glad they are not lukewarm, as the liberal Protestants are probably even worse, but I'm just saying what I see in general, it is what it is. And so they are very against anything we do. I see often times 100x more hate on most Catholic videos and such from Protestants than Muslims, and I much much prefer Protestanism than Islam.

So it's important for us in order to be unified for us to "convert" Protestants as well. I love Protestants very much.

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Why is he obsessed with "logos"? I have never seen this appear in Catholic theological discussion. Is Jones pushing a new Catholic doctrine despite proclaiming to be in favor of Catholic tradition, or is he just memeing for his gen z audience members? He talks more about logos than the name of Christ, or the word Holy or anything like that as far as I can tell.

I don't know if you are an American, but I am, and I have never seen any such thing as you describe, maybe in the South there are some militant Protestants? As far as I have experienced Catholics in America are more militant, but many, many congregations calling themselves Protestants are not Christians at all and support things like homosexuality, women clergy, etc. I respect Jones and other militant Catholics a lot, but not when they seem to be determined to dominate other Christians, especially since Americans traditionally prefer Protestant Churches. I would not go to a Catholic country and be aggressively asserting Orthodoxy or Protestantism.

As a Catholic if you were baptized you are technically Christian even if you support gay lesbo ministers etc. That's why you will find we have to be a lot more charitable than Prots. I much much much prefer Protestanism to Islam though, and sadly I'm not sure I can say that same for EMJ, which is a bit disgusting. But yeah even amongst the right (especially the older generation) Prots hurt our movement even more than Muslims, mostly because they are not part of it and get pushed out anyways. It's very common. For example, the youtuber Christian Prince who debates Muslims and converts many of them, has to like around every week tell people not to trash Catholics. (He is an ex Orthodox) Because it's filled with people saying Catholics created Islam, Catholics are worse than Muslims and so on. If he didn't trash those people and ban repeatedly (For over 20 years he's been doing that) it would be totally over run with those people. Still it happens every time. I used to follow him for a couple years and literally not once where there a bunch of catholics going after prots. It's just how it is and it's sad. So I can't disagree with having to convert Protestants because so many of them are just soo hostile to us.

Misinforming their laity is the only way to keep learning about God's true grace and mercy.

Are there more clips/videos of him like this? I thought it was hilarious.

Shame.

It's taking the term Logos(the Word Incarnate, aka Christ), conflating it with sinfulness, and what Zig Forums calls degeneracy, by invoking some vague Theory of Forms that God is the Platonic Ideal of Good and Virtue, so the terms are interchangable.

In short, he extrapolated an entire personal theology off some extremely general ideas, and is basically saying "sinful shit is bad for you", except he tries to sound extremely fancy and intellectual doing so, to impress people that don't know much.

Saying that God is Logos and that we have to follow that Logos to have a happy life isn't "fancy".

I was briefly taught about Logos in my Catholic high school back in the day. The teacher showed us John 1:14, which is "The Word became flesh," or "Ho Logos sarx egeneto," and then gave us the explanation that Logos can be understood to mean things like "logic" and "reason" as well as "Word." It's not something Jones just made up, it's just not something that's talked about very much.

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Here's an even simpler way of phrasing it.
"Sins and vices are against God, by definition, and are bad for you, and people around you".

I just explained his theology in a sentence, in a much less confusing way, and using plain english.

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You completely truncate the concept of Logos here to an absurd level, removing the true depth and meaning of this word.
You just don't understand it.

You want me to go again?
We've had this discussion in the EMJ thread, and you guys always fall silent, or resort to vague, general questions as retorts.

Logos has never been used in this way in christian theology(inb4 but Greek philosophy), and the only way EMJ's use even makes sense is, again, going back to a very general platonic "God is the Form of Good and everything related, and therefor sins are ungodly", which again, can be explained much simply, as i've shown.

He really didn’t; he just didn’t think that the Catholic Church had the authority to do what they did

You are kidding me right ?
Saint John said that God was Logos and Jesus-Christ was Logos and that in the beginning there was Logos (and not chaos).
You don't know what you are talking about.
Even Fulton Sheen used the word Logos in that sense in one of his talks.
The New Testament was written in Greek and they used the word Logos, they didn't use the word "Verb" or "Word", they used "Logos". So to claim that Logos has never been used in this way in christian theology is ridiculous.

Logos as his weird "anti-degeneracy" shtick, nor Logos as the Word Incarnate.

Learn to read, and follow the conversation for more than one post.

And again, you can explain to me how it all makes sense, in 4 step logical deductions and all that, but as i've said, that falls back upon extrapolating off some general platonic ideas, and can be expressed in much simpler terms, as ive said.

It goes way deeper than just "anti-degeneracy" but you are too blind to see it and you he explains it very clearly but you still don't understand it.
I can't help you here.

Tell me, what profound insights am i missing, besides:
God=Platonic form of Good and moral stuff;
Jesus, the Logos, is God;
Sins=bad and immoral stuff;

Therefor
Sins exist in opposition to Christ;

I'm not entirely sure that you understand my central point in questioning EMJ's furtiveness if not outright hostility towards Protestants. You concede that Protestants are in fact Christians, something a mischievous poster tried to deny, so that much is clear. As far as I understand you, you make the case that Catholics are attempting to make Catholics out of Protestants as a means of some kind of self defense? I find tbis line of thinking difficult to follow as there is a distinct lack of anti-Catholic sentiment in America at large at the present time coming from Protestants that I have been able to observe in real life. You have given various exanples of online interactions, but I besitate to find legitimacy in that because it is difficult to account for sincerity as opposed to memeing or trolling in much online discourse.

Furthermore, in terms of actual policy in the current United States, policu aligned against Catholics is created and supported by non-Christians who oppose anyone who wants to follow Jesus Christ, so it would benefit all American Christians to stand toghether against what I believe literally to be organized Satanism. EMJ seems to only advocate for Carholics generally and Irish Cathilics in particular, which os reasonable and commendable until it crosses into combativeness with other Christians who do not fully support his views on policy or doctrine.

Almost all Protestants are going to hell if not every single one. We do not believe in sola fide or One saved etc. You have to hold the Catholic faith to be saved. You have to submit to the bishop of dome to be saved. This is Catholic dogma. So yes we have to convert you there is no other choice for an honest Catholic believer. I understand you don't see it that way but we do.

(((1)))

Capped, much obliged mate.

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he's not wrong though, I used to see muslims as entirely non-christian to create a strong separation between us, but now I see them as something like mormans, so that means deeply heretical, but still ultimately christian. They may be violent and believe silly things, but at least they are not degenerate like atheist abortionists.

then why did he say reason is a whore?

I guess you’re right. But the Catholic Church was no better; they didn’t like people questioning their dogma back then

This is the time of far-right imbecility i hate.
Declaring every extremist group your buddy and ally, because hey, they hate liberals, gays, jews and feminist thots, so "OMG, we have so much in common!", despite the fact that a ton of them hate the shit out of you, and sometimes openly say they would disband you, if they came to power.

Wake the winnie the pooh up, their crimes against us in the past millenia and a half are numberless, and especially nowadays, with the Saudi petro-islam policy radicalizing them worldwide, saying we aren't so different and they are our kin, is the most brain-dead thing you could ever think.

What do you mean by "question"? If by question you mean honest debate then no that happened all the time and everyone was fine with it. If by question you mean outright denial then obviously that's blasphemy even today.

Hahaha this is absolutely ridiculous. Islam is liberal and fundamentally anti Christian. Aboritionists? ALL of Islam allows for abortion, without any reason for at least 4 months.

Islam is fundamentally PRO ABORTION
Catholicism ANTI ABORTION

Islam is PRO DIVORCE (and no fault divorce triple talaq)
Catholicism is ANTI DIVORCE EVER

Islam is ANTI MONOGAMY (Polygamy, including temporary marriages, Misyar marriage for Sunni, Mutah for Shias)

Islam is PRO BIRTH CONTROL
Catholicism is ANTI BIRTH CONTROL

Islam is fundamentally opposed to all of Catholic social teachings. It's a sick perverted liberal religion and you're an idiot

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Based

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Bruh, when was the last time Mormons waged Jihad on us…

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You're kidding yourself if you think it was that way before Vatican II. There were still liberals and ultramontists, but any Catholic Church you walked into had the same faith, liturgy, sacraments, aesthetic. Novelty has been a disaster, but the faith will be restored, because Jesus only has one Church.

Both Jesus and Paul made it clear how we should treat those who are called Christians but who do not walk after the truth. They are first to be admonished, and if they do not listen, then they should be kicked out of the church and fellowship with them should be avoided. Nowhere in the NT is it stated or even implied that it is okay to kill them. In fact, killing them is the exact opposite of what we're supposed to do. It's our job to testify of the truth with the goal of bringing others to God. Killing them, on the other hand, ensures that they will never come to God.

Both Jesus and Paul made it clear how we should treat those who are called Christians but who do not walk after the truth. They are first to be admonished, and if they do not listen, then fellowship with them should be avoided. Nowhere in the NT is it stated or even implied that it is okay to kill them. In fact, killing them is the exact opposite of what we're supposed to do. It's our job to testify of the truth with the goal of bringing others to God. Killing them, on the other hand, ensures that they will never come to God.

I don't remember the Catechism ever stating you have to submit to the Bishop of Rome, is that truly so?

Unam Sanctum.
Also, take a look at the Council of Trent/Florence.

That overrides the Catechism?

Unam Sanctam is infallible, catechisms are not

A Coward. Impressive
When has he refused to answer a question?
You could always steal it and pay later if you learn anything from it or donate. Then again, this could a case of tiggardly catholic pragmatism and instant gratification
Isn't the goal of writing a book to sell it?
You must be a tigger since you have learned how to steal a book

Isn't the point of writing a book to sell it? If the average person can't read 1200 pages to voluntarily inform themselves on a subject they "care" about shouldn't they just accept their position in life?
Never seen this can you run who or screen shot?
It's called an Abrahamic faith for a reason. If Rome wasn't destroyed by the teutons it would not exist. Muslim are no different than Protestants or any other heretic worshiping something they don't understand and trying convert others to do to same.

Catholics used to covert heretics and schismatics, now they simply spiral into consumerist political factions (as northern European do) , Vatican II complaining and Napoleonic labels.