America

Latin American user here. Everyone loves to bash the USA, but I frankly think it's pointless. It's a country like all others, with good and bad people and lots of bad politicians. Sure, it's the source of a good chunk of the current "progressive" ideology, but most other countries aren't better in that regard. Almost all of the EU members have legal abortion and homosexual marriage and their governments are quite aggressive in promoting it in other places. Russia has one of the highest abortion rates in the world. Most Latin American countries have relatively solid abortion laws, but it's also the most murderous region in the world.

In the Americans favor, almost all of this abortion, lgbt and progressive garbage was pushed down the country's throats by unelected judges, while a lot of countries voted for it. Also, one could blame England for liberalism, France for republicanism and Russia for communism just like many people blame America for progressivism, but this blame game won't get no one nowhere.

TL;DR: no country is without sin, so we shouldn't cast stones

thank you! I was feeling despair at the thought of my country being the worst of the worst. Bless you, user

p.s. how do you type in black censored and in Red? haven't figured it out.

I love my country. It isn't perfect, but it is the land I was born in. I have faith that God can work through His christian flock to save our dying nation. I love my neighbors. The degenerates, secularists, and, yes, even the Prots.

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agree!

This past year, Donald Trump announced that his foreign policy is going to be geared toward legalizing sodomy world-wide. To me, that's what modern America is all about. Sodomy. America is all about evil in general, and cramming evil down everyone's throat. Don't like abortions? Too bad, you're paying for them. Don't like sodomy? Too bad, your kids are learning about it in "sex ed". Want to protect your children from the filth of the modern world? Too bad, if you don't let them like the same things as the kids they know, they'll be poorly-socialized. America preaches "freedom", but has created a system where freedom from immorality is next to impossible, and they intend to force that system on the entire rest of the world.

Democracy as it exists today was formulated by freemasons and jacobins specifically for the purpose of opposing God. It's an inherently satanic system of government. In an autocracy, the ruler can really claim to have been placed where he is by God's providence. In a monarchy, the ruler can claim to have been created by God specifically to be born to rule his country. In both cases, the rulers must acknowledge that their authority comes from God. But a democracy is all about minimizing the direct influence of God upon the government; it's where the people say, "No, God, we'll choose our own ruler." Predictably, the ruler chosen by the people is usually a servant of Hell.

Poland officially declared Jesus Christ as its king just a few years ago. Poland is a special case. In Poland, the government openly acknowledges that its authority comes from God. This is not the way most democracies will go, as such an attitude is antithetical to the whole point of democracy, and to the nature of bureaucratic power struggles in general. Also, it can change at any time, which will most likely be when exported American media finishes corrupting the Polish youth, just like it did in Ireland.

Which is much more difficult to fix in the current bureaucratic democracy than you think it is. Due to the countless rules and regulations which the government is obligated to follow, it would be difficult and time-consuming to change things even if the people wanted it. And the people don't want it, make no mistake, most American parents would rather have their kids attend a gay history class than a Christian history class.

You mean Germany's marx, American bankers, and progressive cheering from england and france circa 1917

Abortions are being fought tooth and nail at the state level. I see younger people my age attacking sodomy laws. I want to bring america to pre 1950's before the onslaught of secularism brought on by leftism. America is changing back. But it is doing so PAINFULLY. I find no man fit to be king, too much power. Look at NK they have a ruler and he forces people to live like animals. you see user. And it is not as bad as other countries.

If we didn't have a second amendment, tyranny would be the norm

So was Hitler placed there by God? Stalin? No they were placed their by the will of some.

Maybe some west coast crack pots but most american parents would be upset if their kids were taught that. I KNOW I WOULD. The Catholic youth of today and Tommorow will fix it.

THERE is no reason what worked in Poland can't work here. The education system is the problem. It simply requires us to regain control.

p.s. what is your denomination, by chance?

and hes driven more people away from sodomy than attracted it. The Youth have dropped their support for LGBTQ from 63% to 45%.

breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/27/poll-young-americans-lgbtq-acceptance-plunges-63-to-45-two-years/

I don't support modern. I support CHRISTIAN america. WE must gain control of society than we can fix all the problems. Also Love can't exist without freewill. Is Charity really charity if its forced? No? Is women wearing veils doing it out of modesty and grace if its forced? No? Than is it Christian to take freewill from people and force them to obey? that is like a lot of followers of Islam who force people to join by depriving their freewill. I want women to wear veils and be good and faithful to Christ. But we can't do that if we force them. We have to make do so BY THEIR OWN FREE WILL.

Russia is where Communism took root and spread it's filth to the rest of the world. It was the Russian people that listened to it. It was the Russian Government that integrated it. Wether you like it or not, Russiaboo, but Communism is an error of Russia.

am I wrong to believe in America on the basis Of supporting freewill. i feel if freedoms were taken away and choices were made for us, then there would be no freewill. If, for example a child were forced to love the dad, is it true love? from what little I've read so far, it would seem no. I'm not saying we should be pro gay rights or choice. I'm saying people on their OWN FREE will should make that choice. it should NOT be coerced. AM I mistaken, anons?

i know there is a lot of bad that results. But how else is true love supposed to exist if not through freewill. I have a king, and that king is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

America is the new Rome and I have a very Augustinian perspective on its death - it is a moral good. America is a freemasonic commercial republic get over yourself baby boomer.

America is founded on liberal principles, it is not Christian. Liberalism is hypocritical of others for not being pro-freedom, but liberalism itself is only for the kind of freedom that liberals want, mainly the freedom to ignore morality and steal from the poor. On top of that it is infested with Trotskites who want to spread world revolution with Jingoism, corrupt media and financial terrorism.

Absolutely 10/10 delenda est.

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Oh, sorry, I should not have said freedom when referring to liberalism, I should instead have said license and licentiousness.

Polite sage for doublepost

I'm 22 but… okay

classical liberals, the front runner of conservatism or Neo liberalism

As for supporting authoritarianism, Poland would like to differ. Authoritarianism only drives people from the faith.

and we have the freedom to oppose the government, no. In NK you get your faced stomped in. Modern America is weak. i want the america that existed before the lefist dribble wrecked much of what IS good

My ancestors escaped Poland. Well not technically Poland but the Occupying powers, BECAUSE of oppression. They fled because they were under a totalitarian regime that chose to seek and destroy Poland and Polish culture, which includes Catholicism

classical liberal ( which conservative thought is based on) or the Social liberals

If Faith is dependent on freewill. then how is authoritarianism going to promote free will if the choice is taken from us?

Classical liberals are to social liberals what 2nd wave feminists are to feminazis, they are from the same tree of poison. Christianity forbids, on my reading of the facts, democratic republican systems of governance.

Government is to be subject to a monarch, the monarch is the security force for society, his job is not to please but to govern the people quietly, apolitically, with economic efficiency, and to protect the cultural values of the Christian majority.

Ordinary people have no right to interfere. That is the ordinary definition of a revolution; where people interfere.

This is phony modernist thinking; there doesn't have to be a Hindu temple next to a Christian church before you can make a proper choice, the choice is inward, not external. It is because you are focused on externals and worldly that you assume the need to go shopping for religion. Stop it, it's commercial and crass what you're doing, religion isn't takeout food (although that is sometimes a hard and sobering fact to comprehend in America).

Fiery hot take user, as a Christian who has diametrically opposed views, I would like to hear how you came to think this.

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Any of the following;
Romans 13:1 (Submit to those in authority)
1 Peter 2:13 (Submit to those in authority)
John 19:11(All power given by God, not by electorate)
Matthew 27:16-24 (Barabbas spared, thanks democracy)
John 19:22 (only Pharisees try to push their governors around)
1 Peter 2:18 (Slaves are to be nice to bad masters who beat them! Paul was so evil and anti-liberal omg!)

Besides, on my interpretation of just basic *reality* you and I are not qualified for freedom. What are you free for? What purpose does your freedom serve if it were truly free? Are your freedoms not just imaginary or mere duties disguised in tolerable language? My answers to these questions are in order; nothing, nil and yes. At best, your freedoms are a representation of someone else's lack of imagination, just a void where they couldn't find a job for you, and trusted you to a limited extent to busy yourself. Really though, if slaves have to serve their masters even when they might sell their loved ones, starve and beat them etc, then it's quite clear to me that the proper understanding of the cross is that none of this matters. You're not a slave? Good, then all the more to devote yourself to God, only He matters after all. Politics is at best a distraction from the reality of this, your cosmic situation.

Following my argument from experience, you really have to be crazy to believe in a world of capitalism that you aren't exploited to the marrow and your freedom is illusory. This is what the Marxists figured out, and good on them I guess for doing so. However as a Christian, none of that matters, only your position in God's esteem, which means embracing slavery, because of the aforementioned.

The only logical Christian response is apolitical monarchy, and if you live in a democracy, never worrying about politics (vote if you want, since your betters tell you to and stuff, but don't treat it like a big deal like they want you to, or you may lose your soul).

Seen in the light of the end of Romans 12, this is for Christians to not do violence or violently resist authority, knowing that those who are there are allowed to be there. It in no way forbids democratic republican systems of government. God put those there (or rather: allowed them to be) also.

This section of the chapter is talking about living a holy life in the empire of Rome, we no longer have that empire, but the principles are the same. With me, an American, "honor the president", submit to the authority, etc. We also know by the fact of the common condemnation of the innocent, that it isn't really the only purpose of the government to "punish evil-doers," and the fact that Jesus was condemned, and martyrs made, we can know that they do not exclusively "punish evil-doers." Either way, Peter here (not even Peter, but still) is making this the main point: "Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves." which goes into the next points of Scripture you didn't quote, but I will since your reference to 1 Peter 2:18 is essentially the same:

The famous "slaves obey your masters, wives obey your husbands, children obey your parents," etc, etc. The purpose of this chapter isn't what you seem to think it is, but is a reminder of Christian citizenship. We aren't members of this world, so St. Paul says: "If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth." Therefore our lowly stations in life (of which were the majority of Christians at the time, the poor, the slaves, women, children of pagans, etc) do not matter, so we shouldn't do evil to those above us, but should show Christians submission to their authority (although clearly not obedience if it contradicts the law of God, which it often does, hence martyrs. But even in disobedience we show submission, accepting the punishment). That is why he ends with: "Whatever your task, work heartily, as serving the Lord and not men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you are serving the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality." Those above us who wrong us with violence and oppression will be paid back, but because there is no partiallity, if we wrong them, so will we. Therefore, we don't pay back evil for evil, but good for evil (Romans 12).

Someone being elected doesn't mean that the power isn't from God, this is clearly not a comment on political systems, but power over Christ (and Christians) in general. It is given by God, so if it happens by lineage, so be it, if it happens because people put them there by consent, so be it. God is the Lord of history, if He really had a bone to pick with democracy (as in it went contrary to His sovereign will for history), He wouldn't allow it.

Barabbas is spared thanks to the sin of the people and the will of God. Check the commentaries on this passage from all throughout the ages, it has nothing to do with democracy. People can choose evil in/under any system. You could say Barabbas is spared thanks to Pilate even giving them this option, and accepting it. He had the decision, he chose evil. Is it thanks to the empire now?

This literally doesn't say this, but ok. Also it was an appeal they accepted, is bringing a complaint to the king not good in your idea of a monarchy?

This is absolutely true, and agrees with St. Paul. I have no real comment on this interpretation of reality tbh, though I do not think this implies what you bring it to here: "embracing slavery" under a king.

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We are free in Christ always, as He lives His divine life in us and through us. If we are materially "free" then it is to serve one another and be slaves to each other mutually with no violence over any (and a state is this).
Self-sacrificial love serving others and manifesting God's Kingdom.
To a certain extent, yes. I don't particularly like "rights" language, as it is simply a reflection of sin. Because others are violent and selfish serving Satan, we have to have trump cards called "rights" to bring out against one another. This isn't the vision of Christ at all. We don't begin by asking what your "rights" and "freedoms" are, but what your end is (in service of God and Creature) and what relationship we want to be in with another (mutual servanthood), and then act on it.

Hence, the only logical Christian response is "anarchism" (being without violent rulers in the world but only peaceful servants, as this is our purpose and life here on Earth and at the end of the aeon. If all did this it would result in a sort of anarchism by necessity) under the dominion of Christ, and if you live in a democracy or a monarchy, never worrying about politics, but doing the best you can and serving God and not the state (don't vote if you want, giving legitimacy to the Beast, even if your so-called betters tell you to and stuff, and defnitely don't treat it like a big deal like they want you to, or you may lose your soul).

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Ok, I get where you're coming from, but it's not the inverse of my position, it's just the same position except far more optimistic about people. I don't believe particularly that the end of the aeon will witness a near-utopia, although it is partly true that sin was much worse just decades ago. Subtle sin is far more dangerous than the coarse sin however, so it's not really progress, just more peril for each successive generation, and we won't survive it as a species. Then again, the last 20 years or so has definitely been abnormal, since the sins of the age have gotten the better of the west, which had a lot of momentum, so we are definitely not living in a reality which reflects the dire straits of western morality, we are living off past success and heavy borrowing.

There're not holy or diabolical countries user. America has some sins but also some good deeds. As an Ortho, i'm glad that American official are starting to take interest in us latelly. I wish they did more for Christians in Africa and Asia though.

what country? Ukraine? I thought of using the 2nd amendment to gather an arsenal to supply an armed force to protect Christians globally. it would serve multiple purposes
1) guard Christians, of course
2) help with community development. Help them by giving them the materials needed to nurture and grow
3) winning the hearts and minds of the local populations, by promoting Christian values and helping those interested, in converting.

Mormons are tenable at best, maybe

for me personally. i don't like how they promote pedophilia. Just…no

I will say, the day Jesus returns is the day I stop fighting. My king is Christ. I just prayed the Rosary as god persuaded me to, and Voila, happiest I've been in a long time! I LOVE it! I hear people shit on it and i can't see any reason why. likely prot reasons.

I love America, but I'm not a fan of most of its citizens. They are weak and morally corrupt. I'm a firm believer that a free society is the best society, that government is a big protection racket and got us into this mess in the first place. Think of the LGBT movement for example, anytime someone does something to go against them they immediately go to the government to get their way. If everyone had true freedom of association, we'd also have freedom of exclusion and we'd be able to set up communities that disallow undesired persons. We can't do that now though because that'd be "discrimination". Those undesired persons would then be able to set up their own community, and then we'd see which one naturally is better. Odds are they'd both win as each group would have their ideal community and as long as each one produced something of value to the market, or was self sufficient, they'd both flourish.

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I would like to point out that the people on the right of that chart are paleo-libertarians, and that there were certainly there were leftists and anarchists in the early libertarian movements. The perception today is not helped by the most prominent libertarians online and offline being for open borders and a society dominated by capital. Like, most people do think of Johnson or Styxhexxenhammer instead of Rothbard unless they're ingrained into this kind of reading(like I was once, I do really like the works of the men on the right, don't get me wrong).

My take on America is that I celebrate it for the nation and not the government or it's politics and policies. You can love the nation, ie it's people and culture without loving the government that imposes its agenda on you.

That's why we must let people know that the prominent libertarian view of today is wrong. Open borders is strictly against private property, since it implies that property ownership does not include defense of said property. A society dominated by capital is one way of establishing a community, but if the US was to balkanize or break apart into separate covenant communities like Hoppe has suggested, not all communities would have to bow to capital. You could just as easily have a group like the Amish that don't care about worldly things and only follow God's will for them as closely as possible. They would be free to pursue that life without coercion to live any other way.
I wholeheartedly agree, but I'd love the people much better if they weren't trying to use the government to force their hedonism down my throat.

But I would LOVE TO HAVE GUNS just to shoot at the lake of fire after New heaven comes. Imagine a Schwere gustav being aimed for Satan and his fiends for all eternity