How do we restore the Catholic Church?

How do we restore the Catholic Church?

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Become holy ourselves, support Latin Mass societies, and sit in prayer under a spiritual director. Begin by going to a local Latin Mass if you have it and doing 15 minutes of mental prayer daily.

You can start by actually attending Mass 2-3 times per week instead of kvetching and bawwing and reeeing on the internet about how there's no TLM nearby.

Attend Mass
Attend Mass
'Attend Mass

Get it? Good.

The Novus Ordo isn’t a valid mass.

I don't think that at this point it's possible by mere human efforts, the mess is greater than it seems. God is not obligated to do miracles but we have the promise that the Church will not be destroyed, so we can hope that He will send something or someone to fix this before the End.
I am far from being holy and have never attended a TLM, but soon I will move to a city that has TLM (although from a particular hated society) and since some months I have talked to another Catholic friends about TLM and they have become interested.

I'm not a sede but if it's true that the NO (which is closer to a protestant service than to a Mass) is less effective and many times offensive to God (aka "clown mass"), then perhaps it doesn't make much difference. I still go for my Sunday obligation though.

This. Not to mention, the more you contribute to the collection baskets at an SSPX chapel the more money that gives them to ordain more priests, build more chapels, and generally gain more influence within the church.

If you absolutely HAVE to go to a novus ordo and don't have a Latin mass nearby I guess you don't have much of a choice but I definitely wouldn't give any money to churches that promote it.

I'm also heavily inclined to believe this.

Yes this. Having been to both NOs and Anglican services, the NO is a second-rate rip-off of what the Anglicans do. In fact the Anglican services are actually closer to the mass than the NO is, e.g., the Anglicans all get on their knees to receive communion on the tongue, while Novus Ordo churchgoers stand and take the Eucharist in their hands (watching this almost made walk out). BTW the NO I am talking about was in a conservative place and said in Latin, so it was about as good as the NO can possibly get, and yet it was still garbage.


No, it's worse than that, it's valid.

It's really bad, in the USA the average age of a mass attendee is over 70, the AVERAGE age of a nun in the USA is 74 (reminder average human life span is 80 so that means there are almost no nuns in their 20s)

If you take a look at the demographics the numbers are even worse than they appear due to such a small number of young people attending regularly

This is why we need to promote the Latin mass now more than ever. I think it's the only thing that will bring young people back into the fold. The Novus Ordo is a quintessentially hippie/boomer "mass". Why do you think they always have a damn guitar? Boomers have a strange fascination with guitars.

Honestly I think holding onto telling gay people that homosexual activity is a sin is going to be a real problem. It's almost just as bad (optics wise) ask banning black people. In 20 years it will look so backwards as to be off putting to most people on it's own

Is hipnitist rape 🌈💒🏩🏗( °( ° ʖ( ° ʖ °)ʖ °) °)

Also hmm did I build my own temple

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We shouldn't change the suit the modern world. Every "institution" is changing to suit the modern world. All you see on TV and in the corporate world is faggotry and other forms of degeneracy, you also see it in our secular governments.

The thing that makes the Catholic church different is that we're a 2000+ old institution and until the 60s we refused to compromise our principals.

The Novus Ordo attempts to "appeal to the heart" but it really can't because it's empty and without any spiritual meaning.

The Latin mass appeals to the head and the heart. Everything is ordered and structured in a way to bring us closer to God and I think that young people who are sick of having certain agendas shoved down their throats would love to have a refuge completely isolated from modernity in the way that the Latin mass is.
The only problem is that not enough people know about it. That's why we need to promote it to as many people as possible.

Your response isn't valid.

It's better, but something worse is an illicit Mass.

Don't worry user, always have faith and never loose it. TLM will return to the Church. God is willing and his Saints are his servants. Human effort IS possible.

*Its bad
Not better

I suspect none of you have actually been to Mass, NO or TLM. If you had, then you'd not post such things.

I just went to TLM today and the priest at my church even criticized the novus ordo during his sermon. It's clear you only visit the novus ordo if you think it's beyond criticism.

I go to the FSSP/ICKSP, and even I am critical of the New Mass. Have you read the Ottaviani intervention?

An ordained priest in communion with Rome would not criticize the Novus Ordo. You're a liar.

Once again, it's clear you've never gone to a real mass or interacted with anyone associated with the SSPX if you believe this. Have fun at your clown "mass".

Ok, Ahmed. We all know /islam/ set up a raid to come here and D&C the board with SSPX and sede nonsense. Go back to your goat farm.

SSPX is not in full communion with Rome. I only have NO masses in my area. It's true that not all NO masses are as bad as people on this board say it is, though it does has it problems.

These are the Masses people need to support and go to.

Go back to your hippie mass which offends God.

If you only have NO masses in your area than I can't blame you for going but you should really attend the Latin mass if you can. Also, the excommunications against SSPX bishops was lifted by Benedict XVI and he also declared the Latin mass to be valid.

Pretty much this. I've been attending NO Mass for the last 10 years at a church in New Orleans and there's no clowns and no twerking and no guitars and whatever else the prots are saying we do. It's a bunch of lies designed to drive people away from the Catholic church. These people have never been to Mass and it shows.

I went to a NO mass once and I'll admit it wasn't as bad as in the video but it was still pretty bad.
If you go to the Latin mass you'd know that the NO is basically a watered down version of the mass which lacks reverence and respect.

I gotta be honest with you, bro. You sound like a Muslim. Those winnie the poohers will cut your head off for misplacing a finger movement during recitation of a surat.

Novus Ordo was meant to bring Mass back to the people and take it away from petty differences over ceremonial bullshit. NO is there precisely for the reasons you're complaining about. Someone kneels wrong? Come on, bro.

Pray the rosary everyday and do the Novena of novenas on August 13th

Do you legitimately believe that Christ, King of Kings, creator of worlds, master of life, gives a shit how deep you kneel? Do you really believe that or are you just trolling?

Dude, the genuflections and all the essentials of the TLM were passed on by Saint Peter, to the Church. Saint Ambrose says that the Apostles specifically worshipped in that manner. Pope Saints Damascus (4th cent) and Gregory (sixth cent) perfected it. The unbroken use of the essential parts of the Mass are of Apostolic origin. Even the Canon of the Mass is older than any Eastern Rite. All that was obliterated in favor of a Cranmer table and no references to the sacrificial nature of the Mass. And antiquarianism was condemned by Pius XII.


Of course, but it is not for us to telll others they're doing it wrong.

I've said in my previous posts that if you only have the Novus Ordo mass in your area than I can't blame you for going as it represents your Sunday obligation and I'm not judging the parishioners who go. However, I feel that the new mass is leading people astray and I fear for the souls of those who may be being deceived.

It does suck sometimes but Us in the laity have to be brave. If you find a fellow parishioner either accidentally or purposely spreading misinformation or heresy you let them know and correct them but do so in a loving manner. If it is a priest that is either spreading misinformation or heresy you must be brave and correct him as well. Make sure to study up on Church law and the church rules and let him know that you object to something that he's been teaching ( for example abortion which would be most egregious but unsurprising if you live in a liberal City) and if the priest doesn't let up or change his mind then let him know that you're going to go to the bishop. And then once you tell the bishop if the bishop doesn't chastise them or if the bishop agrees with him then go up the chain further. And if you exhaust all your options and none of the people in your hierarchy are able to budge or change their mind or be free from their heresy then inform as they would be able to put the word out that clergymen x y and z are not feeding God's sheep correctly. If we as faithful and obedient Christians do nothing while our leaders lead us astray eventually we're going to end up in the times of Ezekiel and then in the times of Jeremiah.

I have never been to a TLM, I said it in my post. I don't give a shit what does Bergoglio says about the SSPX (and he hasn't condemned it yet) as he says almost heretic stuff. The NO is closer to protestant services, anyone with eyes and ears can see this: vernacular language, looking towards people, women reading the Scriptures, a freaking table instead of an altar, reducing the differences between the priest and the laity (as protestants don't believe in priesthood). In fact, Paul VI brought protestant ministers for designing the NO. I hope mods don't delete this for being the truth, I would be dissapointed on the board.

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Obviously. My post was just a joke, sorry that wasn't clear.

Pray the rosary everyday

Offer rosaries for the sake of the clergy and then, following St. Louis de Montfort's advice, do fifteen decades of the rosary - everyday.

Do these

Go into a church and ask the preacher if he stands against usury, sodomy and other degeneracy. If yes? Support him. If not…chop his head off and put it on a spike in front of the church so that righteous men can see that there is a job opening. There can never be morality without enforcing it.

I think it is time we called for a 54 day Complete (15 decades a day) Rosary Novena for Our Holy Mother Church. Which would be about 2286 Hail Mary’s per person if you said the 3 entrance Hail Mary’s for each set of mysteries. 1962 if you only say 3 to start and just go from there.

Anyone wanna do it? Set a Date to start?


No location. Just say it in your own. Though the first and last one should probably be said inside a Church after receiving Reconciliation and Communion if you can find other people to do it with you it would be better.

Probably start on the Eve of the Assumption of Mary so it would go from August 14 - October 6.

Since it would begin on a Wednesday and is the Eve of the Assumption you should observe the First Day as a Day of Fasting and Penance as tradition dictates for Wednesday and The Day before a major feast.

Nothing is set yet we should make a thread to hammer out the details. And to encourage ALL Catholics to join yes even the SSPX and Sedes because for once we have a unified goal in this.

God Bless us and if this be the will of God then let him fill us with the Holy Spirit.


As others have mentioned, pray the rosary and support traditionalist parishes and priests, try have kids if you can find a modest women and place to do so

August 21st is the feast day of St. Pius X. That would be an excellent day to start.

The Church worked best when it had both secular and religious power. When people have options that creates a problem. Most young people who attend masses live essentially secular lives and just go to make family happy, also they read other books and get ideas of the world about science. There needs to be a way to prevent this from happening or under 40 attendance and compliance will continue to fall in the west>>822649

We could add a special intention to him on that day since it would mark the 7th day since beginning the Novena. I proposed those days since Mary will be the one who liberates the Church from Modernist. The Novena would also begin on a Traditional day of Penance and would end on a Sunday the Day of Ressurection.

This Novena will also line up with the Ember Days as well.

And a very happy thing I just found the Day the Rosary ends would October 6th.

October 7th is the Feast of Our Lady of the Rosary.

Might need to add a Day by Day set of prayers for the Devotion since there are Several important traditional feasts, fasts and devotional days like the Birth of Mary and such involved in this.

We should say the Oath against Modernism on the Feast of Saint Pope Pius X.

Bamp because this is a great idea

Can you explain your Math to me? With the 3 starting Hail Marys, a full rosary (15 decades) is in total, 153 Hail Marys. Neither 2286 nor 1962 are multiples of 153 so I don't understand how you're doing your Math.
A decade is 10 Hail Marys, right? We're using the same facts, right?

this tbh

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I messed a number up somewhere thank you.

There are 150 Hail Mary’s on a Complete Rosary. 50 on 1 set of Mystery’s aka 5 decades. 10 Hail Mary’s on a Decade.

Add 9 Hail Mary’s to that for the opening.

And said over 54 days you’ll say. 8586 Hail Mary’s.

If you only did 53 Hail Mary’s a Day spread out over 54 days it would be 2862.

Thanks for correcting me.

9 Hail Marys for the opening? Are you thinking that you have to pray the 3 entrance Hail Marys at the start of each set of Mysterys? I thought once you did the 3 entrance Hail Marys, you can just proceed through all the mysterys. Do you think you have to pray the Apostle's Creed again?

Tell me, how does one pray fifteen decades?

According to St Louis De Montfort, you just say three entrance Hail Marys then continue on with the Mysteries. Once you finish the joyful head straight into the sorrowful once you're done with the sorrowful head straight into the Glorious. Then finish up with the Hail Holy Queen and the ending prayer.

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For a discussion free of Papist censorship, join:

This tbh. Even a NO guitar mass is superior to no mass at all.

user, masses being corrupted isn't some prot lie. We've got the videos to prove it. There are some pretty winnie the poohed up things happening in certain places. It's not widespread or endemic, but it is happening, and it needs to be recognized and called out for the heresy it is.

What is a good resource for finding a TLM church near me? I’ve tried to look at church websites, but they avoid talking about what type of mass they do.

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Thanks, you’ve helped out so much. I recently moved and I discovered Novus Ordo firsthand when I went to a church that felt way too similar to a non-denominational protestant church (not realizing that the church I left behind was traditional, since that was the church in which I converted).

All priests can do the Latin Mass. It's not the ordinary, though, so you have to request it. Seriously, that's all you have to do. Ask the priest.

Yeah, Summorum Pontificum is great. Send a letter to your priest, tell him how attracted you are to the perennial traditions of the Church, how it was instrumental in your conversion, how young people like tradition, etc.

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Also, (if he doesn't know the Mass) ask him to learn from an FSSP priest/ICKSP canon. If he learns on his own it tends to be a sloppy, sped up Mass. I doubt you'd be able to get him to do a High Mass, which is a shame.

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Additionally, you should get people in your parish and neighboring parishes in your dioceses to petition your bishop to allow Latin High Masses.

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None of you are going to fix the Catholic Church by being more pious or active or traditional or anything of the sort. I'm seeing a lot of this, so let me tell you EXACTLY what will fix the Catholic Church and it's right there in Isaiah 58. This is what God wants and expects Catholics to do. No one will restore the Catholic church, especially not with this carnal and human thinking. The Catholic church must REPENT and turn to the heart of God for rescue.

“Is this not the fast which I choose,
To loosen the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the bands of the yoke,
And to let the oppressed go free
And break every yoke?

7“Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry
And bring the homeless poor into the house;
When you see the naked, to cover him;
And not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

8“Then your light will break out like the dawn,
And your recovery will speedily spring forth;
And your righteousness will go before you;
The glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

9“Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
You will cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’
If you remove the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness,

10And if you give yourself to the hungry
And satisfy the desire of the afflicted,
Then your light will rise in darkness
And your gloom will become like midday.

11“And the LORD will continually guide you,
And satisfy your desire in scorched places,
And give strength to your bones;
And you will be like a watered garden,
And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail.

12“Those from among you will rebuild the ancient ruins;
You will raise up the age-old foundations;
And you will be called the repairer of the breach,
The restorer of the streets in which to dwell.

by becoming Orthodox

Prayer is more powerful than you think, bud



You cant be apart of God's church if you are schisming to the East, sweetie.

You cant be apart of God's church if you are schisming to the West, sweetie.

The west isn't in schism because the see of peter is in the west

The west is in schism because it has apostatized from orthodox doctrine.

There's nothing more cowardly than running away from a problem rather than fixing it, especially when it's concerning Gods Church. We will pray the Rosary and the Church SHALL heal due to the powers of the Rosary. You can help us like a man, even if you are SSPX or a Sede, or you can wallow in pride and dispare, continuing to think that the powers of the Rosary aren't strong enough.

I'm not a Catholic so why would I help an apostate church? If you want to restore the see of peter, the way to do that is to return to proper(orthodox) doctrine and theology.

I would hope the schism in your Church is fixed before anything else. And yes, when our problems have been delt with even the Rosary will heal the East-West schism.

If you were actually Orthodox, you would listen to the Church Fathers and obey the See of St. Peter. Instead you try to democratize God's Kingdom and turn it into a hydra. You are nothing but a schismatic.

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Be ur self
a servant of Jesus Christ

Rome has lifted its anathema on St John palamas as a way of making inroads to Orthodoxy for the purpose of ecuninsim. What a Vatican Council in the 1960s failed to understand about this mideval theologian is that his doctrine of the god head (Essence energy distinction) is at total odds with the Absolute divine simplicity doctrine of Thomas Aquinas. they contradict eachother and reduce Rome to absurdity.

Why would they do this? Because Rome is a joke. Vatican I and II are both bad jokes. There is simply nothing Orthodox about Rome at this point. Rome was threatened to be grafted out in the past before the schism, very early on in the the life of the church. It's quite clear there wasn't a concept of papal supremacy till the pope pulled it out of his ass for the Filioque.

And what kind of man says sweetie like that? Are you some kind of faggot?

Why would they do this? Be

It's hard to take the See of St. Peter seriously when its claims completely contradict the church fathers.

Except it doesn't contradict the church fathers because the Church fathers themselves even tell you the listen to the Pope.

Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

Cyril of Jerusalem
“The Lord is loving toward men, swift to pardon but slow to punish. Let no man despair of his own salvation. Peter, the first and foremost of the apostles, denied the Lord three times before a little servant girl, but he repented and wept bitterly” (Catechetical Lectures 2:19 [A.D. 350]).

“[Simon Magus] so deceived the city of Rome that Claudius erected a statue of him. . . . While the error was extending itself, Peter and Paul arrived, a noble pair and the rulers of the Church, and they set the error aright. . . . [T]hey launched the weapon of their like-mindedness in prayer against the Magus, and struck him down to earth. It was marvelous enough, and yet no marvel at all, for Peter was there—he that carries about the keys of heaven [Matt. 16:19]” (ibid., 6:14).

“In the power of the same Holy Spirit, Peter, both the chief of the apostles and the keeper of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, in the name of Christ healed Aeneas the paralytic at Lydda, which is now called Diospolis [Acts 9:32–34]” (ibid., 17:27).

Ephraim the Syrian
“[Jesus said:] Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on Earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples. Through you I will give drink to all peoples. Yours is that life-giving sweetness which I dispense. I have chosen you to be, as it were, the firstborn in my institution so that, as the heir, you may be executor of my treasures. I have given you the keys of my kingdom. Behold, I have given you authority over all my treasures” (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).

“‘But,’ you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division” (Against Jovinian 1:26 [A.D. 393]).

Council of Ephesus
“Philip, presbyter and legate of [Pope Celestine I] said: ‘We offer our thanks to the holy and venerable synod, that when the writings of our holy and blessed pope had been read to you . . . you joined yourselves to the holy head also by your holy acclamations. For your blessedness is not ignorant that the head of the whole faith, the head of the apostles, is blessed Peter the apostle’” (Acts of the Council, session 2 [A.D. 431]).

“Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome] said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’” (ibid., session 3)..

On top of that is completely biblical. The top-down structure of the church emulates that of the top-down structure of nature. The top-down structure of the Kingdom of Israel.

You fools don't understand the early church fathers never thought the pope of Rome to be infallible. Multiple instances where Rome was threatened to be grafted out for heresy.

None of these justify the ridiculous claims and heretical doctrine of the modern papacy.

And you never understood God's Kingdom. The proof is in the scripture. The parallels between the Council of Jerusalem during the reign of King David in the Council of Jerusalem Under the Sea of St Peter is striking and not a coincidence.

The parallels are irrefutable. You can believe what you want but you cannot claim to be Christian and think that God's Temple has multiple heads like a Hydra. The cosmos has one head and that is God. The Kingdom of Israel in the Old Testament had one ahead and it was King David. The Kingdom of Israel in the New Testament has one head and that's Jesus Christ.
Because Jesus Christ had to be up in heaven with His Father, He gave the keys to the kingdom to His prime minister St Peter. Just like how the Kings of Israel gave the key to the house of David to their prime ministers in the Old Testament.

To claim that the cosmos is ruled by multiple heads is damn near paganism. There's only one ruler of the cosmos and that's God.
" threatened" being the key term. It never fell to heresy though. Meanwhile the schismatics out East are having their own schism. It's only a matter of time until the patriarch of Moscow declares himself the new "ecumenical patriarch". Meanwhile Jesus' church will still have the Sea of St Peter and hell will never Prevail against it.

Your problem, my eastern friend, is you see Christianity through the lens of the Greeks, while we see Christianity through the lens of Christ. Just stop being a schismatic and come home to Rome already

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It's actually the opposite. Catholics see Christianity through the lens of the Greeks when they apply mistaken hellenistic presuppositions to theology like we see in thomism.

And yet you cant even refute the scripture. You fall back on your philosophy and a handful of church fathers that agree with you.

Galatians 2:11-21

Peter was in the wrong , Peter could be wrong. Rome can be wrong, Rome is wrong. Rome is grafted out till they repent.

I don't fall back on philosophy. It's the Catholic church that has philosophized its theology by assuming things like logic and causality as being more certain than god.

Also I don't "refute scripture" because Catholics hold a completly incoherent view of scripture and have no basis for citing it.

Except scripture is cited extensively in the video that was posted here, , this video that you are too afraid to actually watch.

So a leader can never be wrong in something? A leader can never be corrected? I guess no leader in this world could ever be given the title of leader because people make mistakes. Again just because a leader is corrected by one of his subordinates does not negate the fact that that person is the chosen leader.

Need I remind you that the East literally ordains women? Need I remind you that the East condones birth control?
Need I remind you that Nestorius was once the patriarch of Constantinople? Need I remind you the patriarch of Moscow was controlled by literal communists at one point? If anyone has the right to complain about heresy it's certainly not you.

Go fix the sad state of your own church before you try fixing Jesus' Church.

Enough you spoiled children. The hour of the Lord draws near and you brothers spend it vainly arguing who the father loves more. Go before God and repent and recieve communion with the Lord. For the hour draws near and he will send his wrath upon the world and neither holy or unholy will be sparred.

Are you all truely Holy enough that you have no fear that you might have even a speck of sin upon your soul? The fires of Hell are licking at our very feet and you all stand here bickering none the wiser.

If I layed a stone before you and told you cast it at the other in the presence of God would you be so bold? I say no you would fall to your knees and beg him to forgive you for you know your sins are many.

Penance! Penance! Penance!

The angels of God are singing to the Lord.

The time of Penance is upon us!

Enough of our arguing, we have turned our eyes to the world to long and Satan has had his way with us like lowly protitutes.

Penance for when the wrath of God comes down it will not discern between believer and unbeliever, atheist or thirst, Protestant or Apostolic, Catholic or Orthodox. All will be subject to his Chastisement and he will separate the chaff from the wheat.

Penance none of us are Holy before God we curse our Brothers in Christ. Penance many do not love God they only fear his wrath. Penance the demons grow bolder and there are few willing to challenge them on earth.

We foolish children how do any of us have time to argue when the Lord is preparing to bring his hand down upon us. The Pope and the Patriarchs will witness a glimpse of hell on earth and they will see the true errors of their pride and looking towards earth instead of heaven. None will remain untouched.

My brothers Catholic and Orthodox and Protestants you have no time for your petty squabbeling for the Father grows tired of it he is going to take all of his children and punish them and and reprimand them for not heeding his warnings.

Oh how I wish this post to be true. Our Lady of Akita proclaimed that both the Father and the Son grow tired and plan to chastise humanity; that was over 30 years ago and yet here we are, with sin more rampant than ever.

500 saw Jesus ascend into heaven but only 180 or so were waiting for him at Pentecost.

Be willing to wait until the end of your life if you must. When the whole earth shakes you will know it has begun Earthquakes and fire from the sky. None of the wicked or heretics will be spared for this is the judgement of God.

Simply be ready if it does not occur in our time praise the Lord we were sparred but pray for the future generations for theirs must truely be a trying time.

Thank you friend. I wish more people felt this way.

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like under the Old Testament god.

City full of sodomites? Nuked from Heaven.

The Angel of God comes to punish the wicked? Better put some bowls out or you're dead as well.

Those were some visceral times whereas we are called to much greater faith in absence of some righteous city nuking.

Oh wow , you don't seem to understanding what it is im saying. Let's say hypothetically that the see of Peter placed heresy in to doctrine? And the whole roman church refused to budge. What should be the repercussion? Should we let it slide and become idolotars of the see of Peter, or should be graft them out?

The women deacons are also mentioned in a passage[11] of the Council of Nicea in 325 which implies their hierarchal, consecrated or ordained status; then more clearly at the Council of Chalcedon of 451 which decreed that women should not be ordained deacons until they were 40 years old. The oldest ordination rite for deaconesses is found in the 5th-century Apostolic Constitutions.[12] It describes the laying on of hands on the woman by the bishop with the calling down of the Holy Spirit for the ministry of the diaconate.

Female deacons aren't really something that's done anymore. Try harder.

Birth control isn't something that's taken lightly. It's allowed it the woman needs it to not be a total mess south of the border. It's allowed in pretty extreme circumstances.

And? You do realize that Nestorious is anathema right? We actually chant his condemnation during the triumph of Orthodoxy liturgy. Why would you even bring this up? It actually proves my point , we dont make idols of the patriarchal seats.

>Need I remind you the patriarch of Moscow was controlled by literal communists at one point?

Please show me where any doctrine was changed by communists or their agents. And if that is the kind of argumentation you want to use, Rome is controlled by literal homosexuals presently. What say you?

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He handled things differently back then, Old Testament denotes the time period, not a different entity.

I didn't say sweatie jack ass, and I've been nice enough so far so I'd appreciate some respect back.

I thought you were also the guy below.

He was referring to how heavy handed God was during Old Testament times not as if he was different in any way.

Soon they will have no choice but to feel as I do. Penance is all we can do now. In the 60’s the cup was near the brim but certain things had bought us time. However the bought time is nearly up and soon all we will have left to do is make penance for the open disobedience to God.

Jesus is no longer willing to stay the hand of the Father for our sakes and we should not ask it of him any longer. Repent and make Penance.

The 60s were a hotbed of satanic activity with Parsons and the Babalon working and the variety of MKs commited by US intelligence. If anything this should have spilled the cup a few times over, I can only wonder what things could not only have offset this but also bought us additional time.