How can we travel beyond our solar system?
How can we travel beyond our solar system?
Go really really fast.
Or be really really patient.
Start with a safe systems programming language.
Rust, of course!
“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects, and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do it.”
.t Ben Rich, second director of Skunk Works
We sent stuff beyond there and it's now adrift.
Wow, how incredible.
bose-einstein condensates and synchronicity
Kek, your language hasn't even left earth!
Get rid of every last leftist and nonwhite on Earth, then we will have no more obstacles to interstellar exploration.
This is is a serious thread keep that garbage for your circlejerk.
As far as i'm considered you're no more useful then an average nig
Space travel == forward time travel
One trip out of the solar system, when you're back, entire civilization is gone.
Very small computers propelled by very large solar sails for hundreds of years.
Go back to reddit spacefag
We should start by banning all tripfags.
Time Dilation makes it possible. And it's already a proven consequence of relativity.
Light has a finite maximum speed, which implies entropy has a finite maximum speed. The closer one gets to the max speed of entropy, the less entropy has effect on the object, and the slower time moves for objects in motion relative to the time of stationary observers.
In theory, it wouldn't not be necessary to reach light speed for the crew of an intergalactic vessel, but even a small fraction of light speed could yield feasible time within the span of human life to reach numerous stars in our galactic backyard.
That said, its unlikely we will ever be able to truly explore even this one galaxy in its entirety. And I have no problems with this. In fact, I would much rather live in a universe that's infinite and unexplorable from its sheer size than a tiny bubble universe. It means there will always be mystery
Wouldn't that only press the necessity to travel to other stars even moreso?
Yeah, this thread is bait.
Time is always moving at the same constance no matter when or where. Time is not a dissension that can be bent or stretched, or walk faster or slow.
And relativity hasn't been proven. Also, time is not malleable, only the present exists.
Theoretically, nothing proved.
Theoretically, nothing proved.
You're just retarded.
It's not even possible to sustain a long-term journey with humans inside a ship due to logistics and radiation, why are you spelling crap like you know something I can only attribute to the ridiculous nerd-subculture that spawned millions of imbeciles all over the world who think they know anything about the matter.
With solar sails, I think we can theoretically propel a craft to about 0.10c. At that velocity, it would take around 50 years to reach the nearest star system, allowing for the time it would take to accelerate, then decelerate upon arrival.
Radiation would be a concern. Anyone on board would be at increased risk of cancer, assuming they didn't just die of radiation poisoning. Any children born on board would probably be mutants or stillborn/miscarried. Don't want it to be a generational ship, anyway, so that's okay? Well, I guess you'd be sending a few astronauts in their late 20s or early 30s who, assuming they could even survive the journey, would be old and about to die upon arrival.
Long-term weightlessness is detrimental to human beings. There are schemes for imitating a low gravitation field, like having a rotating section of the ship where centripetal force mimics gravity, but that's probably inadequate. No children born on board would develop properly.
At 0.10c, even interstellar dust would pose an existential threat to the spacecraft. It would tear through the craft like a Muslim "refugee" tearing through and 11 year old Swedish girl's hymen.
Constructing a ship and training a crew that could handle the journey would be a gargantuan scientific and engineering undertaking that would make something like the Manhattan Project look like a county science fair.
Even assuming we solved all of these problems and came up with the hundreds of billions (or trillions) of dollars to do this, to what would we be sending people? Sure, we've discovered lots of "Earth-like" planets, but last I checked, we don't know enough about them to know whether they're Earth-like enough to even sustain human life. Could we even grow crops there? Are there bacteria there that would wipe us out upon arrival? What if we get there and find out that it's mostly Earth-like, but the temperature never gets below 100°F, and goes as high as 130°F? Or that it never gets warm enough to grow crops?
And do we really need to spread humanity to another planet right now, like some kind of interplanetary STD? We can't even stop fucking up this planet. Instead of getting our house in order, we're just going to find a new planet to fuck up?
I agree with
If we're going to "travel" beyond the solar system, let's just send probes propelled by solar sails.
Time dilation has been proven experimentally.
True, thats the weirdest thing about it.
Any long distance travel near or faster then light would be a one way trip because there is a verry good chance that nothing will be left on earth.
Its time dilatation
could you give a physics-less pleb a tl;dr on what time dilatation is and how it works?
Entropy has no speed, a system does not need to change over time for its entropy to be greater than zero.
Freeze your spaceship to move it really really fast using quantum entanglement.
If you go sanic fast for a while your initially synchronized clock will be early. I am
The only constant in the universe is the speed of light.
How do you think GPS satellites work ?, their clock is set to take into account the time dilatation they are into.
They woldn't work otherwise.
>It's not even possible to sustain a long-term journey with humans inside a ship due to logistics and radiation
Radiation shielding exist, the only problem is that they're too heavy and would be expensive to put in orbit with the current tech.
Are you trolling or legit retard?!
Nice buzzwords, have you considered a career as a screen/game writer?
The speed of light varies depending on the medium.
Its an engineering problem, why is everyone herping and derping about time-space and relativity? OP doesn't necessitate FTL.
Personally I like the idea of the kugelblitz drive, but we'll see sail-based drives carry colonists to nearby stars before that IMO.
The faster you go the slower time passes.
I didn't do the math but if i remember correctly even at sub luminal speeds like 5% the time dilatation would be noticeable.
You can go FTL just not within the universe.
There are actual online calculators for this. up to 0.8 of the speed of light its really not a big deal, though welcome considering it still shears years off a relatively short trip.
True, when i say speed of light i mean C which is the speed of light in vacuum.
What matter is the number not the light.
Yey, an imbecile
You realize it's not time that changes, but the clock? They're in a region with electromagnetic disturbances and that affects their clocks. That's all, the time remains the same.
Yeah, try to shield from Gamma rays, you would need a violent amount of electromagnetic shielding for that, and from where would you harness such energy? Our very planet can barely sustain such field. Also, you forgot about food, water and everything else human-related.
That's my question to you, you base your worldview on star wars and star trek.
It's a political problem, there is no incentive
to invest into something someone else will get the return from.
You can't go FTL relative to anything.
Time dilation doesn't exist, tryhard.
The experiment who "proved" it (and is now vastly discredited) put the blame of the differences in clockworking (an atomic clock, which suffered interference from electromagnetic waves) on time itself!
You know, because if a Clock malfunctions, there must be a problem with Time! Not the Clock!
Only relative to a stationary observer.
Noticeable, but irrelevant. At 0.05c, you can measure time dilation with an atomic clock, but you're not going to come back to Earth after a journey of a year and find that many years have passed on Earth.
Sooner or later a roided up version of Elon Musk will found Weyland-Yutani for fun and profit or the Space Amish will pay out the ass to get away from the cancer that humanity will become. I'm personally vested in injecting some space pioneering into my national discourse, just because I don't think a single present culture will survive the Great Fuckening when Earth decides to go full globalist and I'm kind of a fan of my own culture.
Roger Wilco from Space Quest? I don't recognize that one.
No relativity here, if you manage to get out of the universe there is no speed limit.
Yes, let us put the responsibility of the future of humanity into the precise group that has consistently shown to enrich themselves with no regard to anyone else. Perhaps if things get hot they will use the earth's remaining wealth to save themselves leaving us to die while you bootlickers will die convinced that they will come back. Just go back to Zig Forums retard.
I looked it up. I think I tried to play that one, but IIRC it kept crashing on my computer and I never got very far. Sierra often had quality control issues.
You're missing out, its comedy gold
No point in moralizing when you already admitted defeat on the part of the politicians and the public, who are known to be oh so virtuous and selfless like all the time. Literally doesn't matter if you like it, its none of your business what people do 4 light years away if you don't actively make it your business. So either find a way to mobilize the masses of demoralized decadents or stop complaining.
As Bloom famously said "Life, uhm, life finds a way". And if this way leads through corporate tax envision or something banal like that so be it. Confining intelligent life to a single star, where it can be subject to simultaneous system collapse is a tremendous risk that I not willing to take at any cost. In fact I'd sooner send a million criminals to New Australia before I'd ever leave this issue be.
You have zero idea of the technological ramifications that were operating within. If you can traverse stars that means you can already do without earth for at least 50 years prior and just coast in an O'Neil cylinder, weathering whatever happens on the surface. Great argument against star colonization, moron.
Look who's talking. The retard pushing for monopolizing tyranny till only thing the administration is concerned with is managing the Outer Party and the proles.
look farther than staying stuck on hack science made by jews
Holy shit, the arrogance! You assume intelligent life exists only on Earth? In that case, it's an aberration. A mutation. Let it die.
And if intelligent life is common throughout the universe? The extinction of one instance of it is an irrelevant blip.
Who cares? Humanity was a mistake.
That's wrong. Electromagnetism is inherently stochastic. It is absolutely the result of Time Dilation. Because the difference in time effected is predictable and consistent with relativity. If it really was electromagnetic disturbances then syncing time would be impossible because of the unpredictable nature of electromagnetism in the vacuum of space
It has no minimal speed. The point is that the speed of light being finite implies the potential speed of time itself as measured by entropy
This is ironic coming from the spawn of cringey faggots from the Rational Skeptic™ community who tries sounding smart through contrarianism
Oh yeah, the arrogance of Fermi's Paradox! I mean there might be life somewhere, though it failed to manifest itself on the stellar scale for billions of years and shit, but hey, if its there, possibly, maybe, then it doesn't matter if terran life survives. Yay, commie logic!
Life is a "mutation". D'ohohoho. And it has no worth shit if there's no other (I'm assuming smug n' enlightened) aliens somewhere out there. What peculiar reasoning.
What is there to say? if you don't value sophont life you shouldn't really be participating in any discussion to begin with. Relegate yourself to crack consumption, huffing glue or w/e entertains you and leave us natalist monsters to handle this stuff, lord Edgemax.
Since we fail to observe any activity that'd be logical for any technological/machine/biopunk civilization to undertake (harnessing star fusion emissions etc.) its prudent to assume were quite alone/early on the galactic theater. Both scenarios impart tremendous responsibility.
A lot of people seem to forget that prior to the age of aircraft and telegraph, it took years or decades for people to travel around our ball of mud, and to talk with each other. Even the mightiest empires were disjointed, largely disconnected constructs separated more by time than space.
In comparison, space exploration allows us to see where we're going through telescopy, scout out low-value targets with robotic probes, transmit messages as unaccompanied beams of energy, and (at least for the travelers, rather than travelees) ignore the passage of time.
The last century of high-tech have completely spoiled humanity's perception of space and time as explorers.
6/10, not quite as funny as flat earth poster, but still mildly amusing.
This. Every single atrocity, war, and ideological struggle in all of world history put together are meaningless childhood squabbles compared to the importance of laying down insurance around our neighborhood of the universe.
As an addendum: if there are civs out there and they're all just inexplicably anti expansionist (I guess they're all emo cunts like you) or anally Amish it still bestows us with the responsibility of spreading life beyond the brief phase when planetary biogenesis is viable - which may be hundreds of trillions of years for all we know.
for what purpose
To get an Asari gf. Fuck human females
Why would you think corporate tax evasion would accelerate the exploration of space? Do you suffer from magical thinking due to having to warp reality to fit your ancap faith? It is irrational to invest into a product where you can't capture the produced value. Also, virtually all of the spaceflight technology we have came from government-funded projects. Corporations spend very little on R&D because it simply does not pay off.
You have no say in the matter, there will be no space colonies before you die, probably never.
You are the moron. We can already traverse stars. And hiding below the ground will not help you when the sun swallows up the earth. Also, you just did make an argument against star colonization, well done!
Stop putting words in my mouth. I oppose the ongoing monopolization of tyranny (wealth), the resulting waning of technological progress is bad enough as it is.
Remotely interesting locations are too far apart for information to travel in entire lifetimes. It is questionable that we would have enough resources even if we find a viable planet to get there, let alone create a sustainable colony. Getting mass into space takes insane of energy, and what is more highly energy dense fuel which is rapidly dwindling.
Wrong. Why do you make up beliefs and state them as if they were some fundamental truth?
This. I always chose Liara.
To eXplore, eXpand, eXploit and eXterminate.
I think other poster wasn't glorifying "muh private entrepreneurship", but merely stating that whether the world is controlled by great nations engaged in public works (1960s) or greedy megacorps (now), people will still want to explore the stars.
Great waves, smallest pebble, etc. etc.
Ditto you making one in favor of it
I realize this is a very stereotypical NASA shill line from me, but you're aware one of the primary arguments for "blue sky" projects like space is the massive scientific fallout (including basically all of modern ecological science and applied technology), right?
That's why we need to fully bootstrap space exploration. Once we have an extraterrestrial intrasolar supply chain up and running (solar power, ice and minerals from asteroids and oort objects, LEO/lunar/Legrange Point factories, etc.), we won't need to draw on Earth's resources anymore, and could substantially supplament our terrestrial economy to boot.
Also, the actual cost of space industry and research has never been more than a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the global economy, so this isn't really some hard binary choice to begin with.
Because the alternative is ultimately suicidal
Learn to recognize jest.
Yeah, sure thing buddy. Never ever.
No, I'm pretty sure you're still THE moron, bro.
We literally can't, as in there is no capability to do so.
Yeah, see moron? You hear "surface" and you go to some retarded Fallout imagery w/o even googling what an O'Neill cylinder is.
Totally relevant to the time scale within the context of your evil business elites fantasy.
You progress the ongoing monopolization of power itself, just bypassing ownership and going straight to party neofeudalism, striving to make it global at that (making it so much more premanent). If you're the straight cut anarchist kind of retard that just means you'll be getting a bullet from your Stalinist buddy when you're of no use anymore, as per usual. Humans are hierarchically inclined fucks - anyone who ascribes to this belief, and most do, will see you for the fool you are.
lel What a fucking luddite. Even at Sol planets will ultimately be stripped down for habitats, matrioshka membranes or statites if march of civilization does not cease.
Launch loop/alternative infrastructure. That plus most raw resources will be eventually mined off world.
Assuming fusion is viable you can manufacture chemical fuel and ignore the inefficiency of this production chain, because fusion.
Since they're so open ended they're fundamentally true to any kind of pro-social value-driven individual. Sorry, you just don't make the cut. Actually you're most likely just a wannabe negative existentialist contrarian, as previously established.
You either develop a world view that eventually leads you or those who come after you through circumstance to want to go/send others or you sit on your hands till the star blows up. Considering the range of beliefs and attitudes I'm pretty confident someone will make the effort, for whatever reason.
*matryoshka BRAIN membranes
Though I suppose just a giant membranous space matryoshka would be quite worthwhile as well, for meta humor's sake.
Humans are inclined to lots of stupid things, but our sapience grants us the capacity to recognize and consciously avoid such folly, if we become aware of it.
That is not a very safe assumption. Even if it is viable, the currently dominant design (energetically confined) is the least plausible, since containment energy demand rises with reactor energy output, compared to more plausible designs (such as inertial confinement).
Sure. Then you run that through couple billion people and on average you will get crushing conformity with the natural inclination. Then you stack that up with emergent complexity issues, like all those twats generating a fundamentally malevolent entity because they're just apes adapted to living in tiny groups, so they can't even really grasp the implications of what traspires around them... A world government not subordinated to a single credo, and a suitable one at that (so for example no utopianist horseshit that gives carte blanche to do whatever it takes to get the perfect society), will devolve into primarily elite-plebs dynamic where the bureaucracy class/party in-group literally cannibalizes its host. And frankly, with all that automation going around, this reduction can then go on within the government hierarchy way past the point where you can talk about a civilization of any sort. I can imagine the future Qin Shi Huangdi could go without most of the cogs in his toy empire drawing breath.
You can have a 10 billion people Confucianist China, you can't have a 10 billion World State hodge podge of deeply value and structure divided groups with no allegiance to one another that will soon fall to the state power. You could have that in the past. Now you can't. Now its either or. Evil despotic empires or brain implantology, cheap-o mass surveillance and genetic engineering. If you ever get both, in a vacuum, with no competing powers to destabilize the regime humanity goes bye-bye. The power dynamic kills the crab.
Hence I'd like to get off this rock eventually. Sooner rather than later.
That just means you build the damn launch loop faster, before civilization crashes, then live off of boring ol' orbital solar power. I'm all for haste.
While I don't think any sort of manmade near-term catastrophe is likely (global warming will probably just be a moderate permanent increase in poverty and strife, except in the absolute worst runaway clathrate gun scenarios) there are countless extraterrestrial natural disasters that could wipe us out with little or no warning.
As for political issues? War and tyranny are unlikely to touch the major powers unless someone is stupid enough to break the "nuclear peace" by deploying something like pure fusion weapons. "Automation"-driven unemployment is 1000% meme that can't actually happen until true "hard AI" (which, if the field of AI research is surveyed, it's unclear we're any closer to than we were in the 1940s) is invented, due to Jevons' Paradox. Maybe I'm overoptimistic, but things like the Flynn Effect on IQ, continually increasing global development, and a projected population decline after plateauing at 10 billion in the 2050-2100 timeframe suggest an ultimately rosy outlook in the future. And if such things did happen anyway, it wouldn't be extinction-level, even evil people opening the door to space would be preferable to extinction.
New Horizons was launched in 2006 and did a Pluto flyby in 2015. It takes 5-6 hours for the sun's light to reach Pluto. Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away, and the nearest galaxy. Unless faster than light travel becomes possible for humans, it would be pointless to leave our solar system.
I'm a brainlet. There are other solar systems in our galaxy we need to explore first.
We need Global Warming to impede the growth of Niggers tbh. The world predicts that Africas population will grow to 2 billion by 2050, but economic estimates tell us Africas GDP will not experience much growth by 2050 either. 2 billion dead weights on the world. It must be stopped
Speed of light stays the same in the medium, but photon is a wave packet, not a wave. Wave packets can be slower than the wave itself.
Also, time dilation could render intergalactic travel practical at near-luminal speeds, as noted, though the benefit to Earth itself would obviously be sentimental.
If you travel at 0.9999999 c or something, trip to andromeda takes a year maybe. Back on Earth that's 2.5 million years.
Also speed of light being a limiting factor doesn't mean that you as a space traveler cannot travel arbitrarily fast. When you accelerate, Lorenz contraction kicks in, the space will contract along the direction of travel. Even if you never technically break the speed of light barrier, you can still pass any amount of lightyear-spaced cosmic milestones per year.
Wouldn't G force be an issue long before hitting near speeds of light, or would gradially speeding up and slowing down solve that problem? Again, brainlet here.
why G? you could accelerate to that velocity very slowly.
a huge problem would be the doppler effect concerning em radiation around space, shifting them to a higher frequency and thus frying any macroscopic object hypothetically reaching such speeds.
A lot of people in this board now are too incompetent to use GNU/Linux, and instead use pajeet OS that spies on them and restricts the way they use their own machine, and this nigger here thinks humanity can pull off travelling in space.
Must give you a lot of trouble keeping yourself so deluded, OP.
Why does light take 2,500,000 years to get here from there or visa versa?
If special relativity explains why light takes 2,500,000 years to travel between the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies, but a vessel traveling at almost the speed of light would take only 1/2,500,000th of that time, you could elaborate on that instead of being a smug prick.
True, you're statistically more likely to die in a meteor impact than a plane crash, so its a question of "how comfortable am I with billions of years of terrestrial life's struggle going down the shitter because I sat on my hands like a twat". This still doesn't make additional threats ignorable, since unlike a sufficiently massive comet strike that may never come they're crawling processes that actually happen right now. Like a slow ass planetoid heading our way.
What are you talking about? xD They're the source of the various consolidation movements, either their initiators or hosts for the powerful interest groups who push for it. Tyranny is a byproduct of globalism and permanent social division, it comes later, when you can't stop it precisely because you can't.
Thats where you're wrong. Even stagnating means intolerable increase of the likelihood of extinction. We may be the seed of all life to come in the universe for all we know, if we get stuck in year 1984, busy suppressing the gormless masses/extinguishing the species toward some Malthusian wankfest were really asking for a hot piece of space shit right up the ass. Way, waaay up there.
Nonsense. That growth is inconsequential as long as you don't accept waves of illiterate witch burning rapefugees. They'll be contained on their landmass and have to deal with their own bullshit, just don't let the cosmopolitans run your government and you're fine. The Chinese will eat them anyway, Leopold style.
Liara is my waifu
World ship with ion drive and a massive ice shield.
By changing the laws of physics. Anything else?
Are we literally getting underageb& K-12 students? This is stuff any gradeschool physics class at least touches on. I sincerely hope this is OP samefag trolling.
I dunno, after strangling away government and its old private subcontractor network, some of today's tech barons like Musk and Gates are taking up the torch and diverting tax dollars into their own coffers for various reasons. Things aren't moving at the steady march of the Cold War, let alone a concerted peacetime effort, but they are moving.
True, life in the 3rd-world sucks as long as we're slurping out their blood, but no hostile military has ever set so much as a boot on the soil of a nuclear power, and 1st-world liberal democracy is going to take decades at minimum for rate-of-profit to fall far enough for collapse all by itself.
Problems that potentially delay solutions to potential extinction, is quite a bit different from something that itself means total oblivion. You know, man-made doomsday scenarios like WWIII, crop-sterilizing GMOs, gray goo, etc..
I disagree. Depending on one's definition of "development", nearly all of the tech under discussion in this thread is based around proven technologies and principles, only the engineering, certification, and construction necessary to turn these decades-old designs into real machines stands between us. Basically no research is needed for such basic systems, which is why they're so commonly shilled to the public.
Time dilation is a meme and we'll find a way to go FTL, or at least use something like wormholes or alternate dimensions where c is higher.
We can't sustain a high level of g force without blacking out and dying. Just becuase our corpse doesn't get ripped apart doesn't mean we'll be alive when we get there.
Blueshift factor is the same as time dilation factor which is also the same as Lorenz contraction factor. To kick CMB into visible light region you'd need a factor of 2000-5000, that's something like 6-15 lightyears per day. That would be still fuckall of irradiance, from less than 1 microwatt per meter squared it goes to 2-5 milliwatt. Sun irradiation is 1 kilowatt per meter squared. And all of that only applies if you physically travel through timespace at that speed, without using any sort of FTL drive that bypasses the need to accelerate to speed of light.
Vessel traveling at a large fraciton of the speed of light will take slightly longer to get there than it would take the light to get there. The relative motion effect is that there is time dilation as well as space contraction, also the order of events stops being consistent however proper spacetime interval remains consistent. All these effects are constant as long as velocity is constant, but they start changing if you accelerate, particularly the order of events. For both stationary observer and moving spaceship, the other party experiences strong time dilation and lorentz contraction. The difference is that when spaceship accelerates and then decelerates, its frame of reference order of events changes so that it arrives at the destination in just a while after departure from origin, while stationary observers' frame of reference order of events doesn't change. Hence the older twin effect. From spaceship perspective, when you accelerate the order of events shifts and effectively the Earth (and everything behind you in general) goes back in time (if you accelerate sufficiently fast), all while its time is getting to go slower. When you decelerate the reverse happens and it fast-forwards. When you completely stop, your view of Earth and its actual state sync up. All of that has to do with physically accelerating, as in exerting force to overcome momentum. Free orbiting as well as bending timespace and whatnot doesn't count.
You mean every single year some brainiac points out that relativity doens't works on quantum scale? Relativity flew spaceships all over the solar system, but I never seem to find any superstrings or some other model producing consistent enough equations to make rockets with.
Okay, go then. Go go. I'm giving you imaginary 200 billions, now go. Oh right, it will take 60+ years of continuous development to create the infrastructure to go to even proxima horseman. Hence capabilities are not here.
Never said anything like that.
The great powers are the motors of globalism. As I said already. They create integrationist blocks (EU, NAU etc.) and build international dependencies like that nightmarish Asian trade deal USA was supposed to sign or the Silk Road Chinese will try to build (each designed to snub the other country, btw). Those will all culminate in a budget version of a global government as powerful interests align with each other. Then the cancer metastasizes, consolidates... aaand were fucked.
Nope. All it takes is enough mess'icans or some other group always voting one way because of how tremendously they differ from the natives to counterbalance ideological voting patterns and parcel society into special interest groups, thus ending liberal democracy and frankly democracy in general. because if its only a question of flooding the country with vote cattle there is no democracy. If "demography is destiny" then nobody cares what John Doe thinks, he'll get neutralized through counterbalancing with Abdul or Pajeet.
At only 1G of acceleration, you can accelerate to the speed of light in less than 1 year. You can gradiaully increase the acceleration for no detrimental health effects, too.
since the start of our space program, we have sent probes far out into our solar system; venus saturn, jupiter have all been observed within 3k miles if im not mistaken. that means we could easily get out of our solar system within a lifetime. go to the nasa forums to talk to real space ppl