So let's start this off with a common argument i've seen from BSDfags and some others. "The Linux Kernel is bloated!" But honestly, I don't see how that can be possible. I'll give ya the coreutils. Those should definitely be reworked, or better yet, fully replaced by busybox. But the kernel HAS to be as big as it is in order to have driver support for all the hardware that it can run on. If it was smaller, it wouldn't be able to have the amazing level of compatibility that it does, far superior to *BSD, and only beaten by Windows due to manufacturers being kikes. I mean, if we're talking about microkernels, that's a bit different because you'd want the kernel to be as small as possible and all the drivers to be in userland, but for any monolithic kernel, it makes no sense to start crying bloat when there's a perfectly acceptable reason for it.
meme - Microkernels are the way to go False unless your only goal is to get papers published. Plan 9's kernel is a fraction of the size of any microkernel we know and offers more functionality and comparable or often better performance. harmful.cat-v.org/software/operating-systems/linux/
I do have a heavily stripped down linux kernel on my gentoo rig, with no where near as much support as the OpenBSD kernel and also no module support its about the same size. But even torvalds agrees that the linux kernel is disgustingly large at this point.
The only kernel space drivers should be core hardware anything on a mobo except networking, video (not including basic vesa output drivers), and CPU microcode. Everything else should be user space.
Anything with closed source firmware bins should be user spaced. Nearly all Intel, all video cards, nearly all NICs, etc Every DMA capable device should be sandboxed.
Benjamin Russell
does plan9 support btrfs? does plan9 support anything except sshing into it from a real OS?
Connor Perez
Why would a kernel from the 90s, designed to support two filesystems, support btrfs?
Adam Harris
of course not It can browse the web with mothra or abaco, it can program in the purest form of C, it can run emulators for old game systems, it can play audio/video files, basically anything one would want to do with a computer. It even has a linuxemu
What are you talking about, Plan 9 doesn't even support cp -r.
Camden Mitchell
Automatically restarting stuff that crashed is bad for security. If it crashed, that means it's buggy, and maybe it got exploited. That's why OpenBSD tries its best to crash early, so bugs can be noticed and fixed. Read up on ROP and BROP. These attacks pretty much depend on being able to retry over and over. If a subsystem conveniently gets restarted, that makes their attack feasible. youtube.com/watch?v=FzJJbNRErVQ
Aaron Parker
Any recommended hardware to get started on plan9/9front?
Samuel Davis
...
Xavier Campbell
But the majority of that hardware is massively shit, AKA x86, so it is bloat. Linux was designed for x86, therefor its always and has been intrisically terrible. PPC era OS X was way better.
Parker Ross
Its called cpdir cp -r is a hack that does basically just that
Nolan Edwards
wow. this is the reason why i use arch linux.
Carson Peterson
And? You have yet to provide any evidence to counter that point. The post you are replying to doesn't even correlate to to the post that you quote. One is talking about software that the operating system as a whole supports and the other is talking about the kernel. Of course I can come up wit equally retarded questions about the Gnee/Lunix OS such as: does lunix support anything except serving files to the windows and mac operating systems? Or spefically related to kernels: Let 'x' = some arbitrary filesystem that kernel 'A' supports and that kernel 'B' doesn't support does 'B' support 'x'?
It supports a surprisingly large amount of hardware. Lots is documented in PDF-related. Basically just dd the image to a flash drive and see if it boots. Let me warn you though, its quite different to any Unix-like you have tried before. The first time I tried it I couldn't figure out how to get past a certain stage in the first boot, and the second time I couldn't figure out what the command to poweroff was.
Bentley Garcia
already did that here: The post that I'm replying to is a reply to which is a reply to So where is the Btrfs support??? Protip: it doesn't
Zachary King
Congrats on proving your low reading comprehension skills. But I'll give you benefit of the doubt. Am I supposed to assume that all microkernels support btrfs? You've provided no source. What about everything that the plan9 kernel supports and that microkernel 'A', 'B', etc don't support? You have provided 1 piece of minor evidence, it hardly disproves the quote I posted. Of course you also have to show that whatever microkernel you choose is also smaller than the plan9 kernel since that is one of the requirements in the quote I posted.
Isaiah Brown
In security-critical systems, it's a good practice to crash early.
In safety-critical systems, you can either shut down early and crash ( not a good practice in nuclear reactors since byproducts make it impossible to restart before next week , not good choice in aeroplane systems either) or you can restart the crashed process ( in factories, this would make more damaged products so it's better to just shut down ). Maybe there are more options, these are just a few examples. Ofc I'm no expert.
Landon Cook
GNU/Linux is so bloated it puts these two functions into one binary
Aiden Murphy
That was beautiful.
Eli Anderson
Is there anything between kernel and userland
Easton Smith
Nope. Userland is in reference to anything that's not in the kernel.
Owen Davis
SeL4 is the future. In a better world GNU/Hurd would be wrapped around it and we would have a fast, bloat free, mathematically secure proof microkernel with a floss userland driver/memory manager which is easy to extend. At least dreams are free, anons.
FALSE. SeL4 is mathematically proven to conform to specification. It is not proven to be secure, work correctly if the spec was incorrect, or be bug free
Brandon Anderson
SeL4 is a meme written by yobbos to waste my GST
Henry Lewis
linux is corporate behemoth, so it has to be bigger in order to support hardware out of the box bsd is corporate carrion, so it has to be concise in order to be ripped apart and salvaged into product
