GNU/Linux is changing drastically

Gnome and KDE are not the only choices. Repos will never be replaced by appimages. And Linux has never had a real firewall, and for 99% of users, iptables is irrelevant.

Shit thread.

The spacing triggers my autism
I have not idea if it's good.
what's the point ?
Ultimate cancer to EEE free software with proprietary software.

I'm so glad I use OpenBSD.

What really? This is extremely shitty.

I installed it on an old Thinkpad and it's super comfy. I do run Devuan on my main machine though, but the poz is coming from all directions now and who knows how long they'll be able to hold out.

Thank science for apulse though.

If you're saying that because you think i'm a shill for systemd in some way, i'm not.
My suggestion that a new init shift could happen was kind of a hope of mine. I'd love to see Alpine and OpenRC succeed.

Yeah i've heard as much. I think Flatpak will win. Snaps, despite being advertised as universal, seem to be mostly an Ubuntu thing.

I can understand why they'd do it though. Normies on Windows or MacOS likely already watch this premium content, so Linux not supporting it would seem like a major inconvenience to them, a fault in the OS, and a reason not to use GNU/Linux.
Good thing there's Linux-libre I guess...

indeed. I never said they were, but they are two of the most popular ones.
If you want a tiling WM, there's Sway, which looks pretty comfy.
never said they would, but things such as this will have a place in our application distribution and installation.
elaborate
true. The syntax of things such as iptables and even the new nft is hard for the average person to wrap their head around. That's why there's convenient frontends like ufw (Uncomplicated Firewall) or its GUI version, gufw.
Sorry you feel that way. I think a lot of these changes are pretty interesting.

Yeah it's quite weird. I suppose you could alias them though
I think it is. There's a lot of FUD about it, but honestly a lot of the issues it has are because of it being new. The main complaint i've heard is that it's not "network transparent" like X is. Once there's a compositor-independent option for remote desktop/screen and window sharing, that'll be sorted out.
I don't see how it's EEE in any way. I do agree it could be a way to more easily get proprietary software though.

BSD does seem like a good choice for those who want an extremely traditional experience. I might even consider checking out either OpenBSD or perhaps NetBSD at some point. I'm glad those will still be around (not FreeBSD though. They don't like hugs)

Who cares? Just fucking stick to ifconfig and avoid the redhat/CIA iproute2 suit.
Wayland is already in a fully usable state with all the apps you could want except for vidya.
And even vidya will run in xwayland at this point. The only reason we haven't seen a switch is
because most distros use shitty bloat that is X dependent and they don't want to get rid of
because (((reasons)))
Cool a second firewall. Just means more options.
Everything they are trying now has been tryed of old. There is nothing new in the application
distribution, only what you don't remember. Nothing new under the sun.
Their ok, just means more options. Wayland is a step in the right direction for GUI security
though, even if shit compared to true security setups. I think redhat/CIA will continue to take
over GPL projects as the only contributer so (((they))) can re-liscense the applications and
libraries to something other then GPL in the future.
Systemdick and init systems.

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This is fine, I've switched to using ip a while ago.
I haven't done enough research into Wayland, but it sounds like it requires a lot more work to create a WM since Wayland expects the compositor to do a lot of stuff.
I don't get screen tearing with X out of the box.
I have no opinion on this.
If you want to release a system general release of your application just release a tar of the source with compile instructions. For switching to flatpack / snappies your distro essentially has to support another package manger. Switching to flatpack / snappies is the equivalent to saying that we would only need to create 1 package if all distributions used the same package manager. From the perspective of a Gentoo user it appears really idiotic. Gentoo essentially uses 1 package manager for everything at least it tries to.
AppImages I don't think are as bad, but they do result in bloated binary releases. A concern I have for it is that if they use a vulnerable library, you have to upgrade every application in your system which bundles it in instead of just upgrading the library in a single place.

netstat -> ss

wait, is iproute2 poetteringware? Does it have telemetry? I'll avoid a kneejerk reaction until I have some proof of it being compromised.
>Wayland is already in a fully usable state with all the apps you could want except for vidya. And even vidya will run in xwayland at this point. The only reason we haven't seen a switch is because most distros use shitty bloat that is X dependent and they don't want to get rid of because (((reasons)))
I fully agree. I've seen anons say shit like "Wayland is dependent on systemd avoid like the plague!!" or something to that effect. Couldn't be further from the truth really. GNOME certainly does, but it did that even on X anyway.
A replacement firewall. I like the idea.
Interesting. I am unfamiliar with these earlier attempts. Mind explaining?
I do think that these new ones will be quite successful. I hear pirates are starting to distribute games in flatpak.
see

You realize distro-agnostic packages means it's easier to distribute newer versions of libre software too, right?

This is a problem for Appimage and Snap, but less so for Flatpak.

Me neither for years and years. Is this really a problem?

So it isn't? I don't know shit about wayland, I don't keep up with new stuff.

The BSDs wouldn't be able to use Wayland if it depended on systemd.

Of course not, but it's on the list that shills have, like image previews in the file picker.

Wayland is cancer of its own type and breaks everything. I've seen no proof that it's pozzed botnet shitware but I am betting we will find out it is.

As have I. It doesn't make much of a difference to me overall. I just find it interesting because the basic ifconfig, route, and arp commands have been used for so long, and are now being replaced.
Indeed. Thankfully even though that will reduce options, there will still be plenty to choose from. You have GNOME, KDE, and Sway right now basically, and more will come later (I hear LXQT may be in the works?). I guess this ends up being the least harmful way to reduce fragmentation. We may not have the DOZENS of tiling WMs we had on X, but we'll have Sway and probably others. We'll also have our usual DEs. It's fragmentation-reduction without it getting to the point of the "GNOME as the only Linux GUI" conspiracy.
What DE? I hear it's pretty noticeable on XFCE if you don't use compton.
Pretty much same, although my general attitude towards it is positive. It sounds like they have admirable goals.
Not brainlet-friendly enough. Unless compiling can be made into a double click, that's not gonna happen.
I don't think these will be things that completely replace package managers. these I hear will be secondary options.
I'll look into it

It's not by itself an EEE scheme but with steam building up on loonix so the software community are going to be overwhelmed by something worse than normalfags (gamers).
Btw can somebody post the pic of the initial community invaded by external people ?
It's going to be used outrageously since a lot of repositories won't/can't integrate directly there shit into the distribution, of course there's the exception of manjaro who went full retard already.

You should also try out DragonFly if you want something innovative/new. The design really is something to behold; if there were as many users of it as CorporateBSD, we'd really get somewhere.

Honestly when it comes to innovative and new ideas, as in COMPLETELY revolutionary designs, I look more to microkernel OSes. There's nothing practical still, but with promising projects like Genode/seL4, I'm optimistic. There's also the memes that are Redox and Fuchsia

Ok, and what's this talk about it being "secure?" I feel old and confused and have no idea what these kids are talking about.

Yes, and?

I feel that some arguments are best discarded after the most cursory glance. There is an effort to replace old, tried and true, established code and especially protocols with new, opaque, enormous and ever growing shitware which will be impossible to ever comprehend, see systemd.

I don't need to locate and file new bug reports in order to "prove" to the various shills that Poetteringware isn't secure and is in fact questionable at best. The record stands for itself.

There is an obvious ongoing conspiracy to take away our precious Free software and replace it with newly-developed shitware, and in the future I see new versions of that shitware going to more and more closed models. Even if it doesn't the sheer rate of change in the code precludes any useful checkpoint and audit procedure. If the new giant software like Firefox or systemd is on a more or less rolling release cycle how can it ever be trusted?

Bring back major, yearly or less frequent releases.

DragonFly has a hybrid kernel, and you can also run virtual kernels in userspace. Last I tested it (2015) it outperformed Linux (was using Gentoo), so I believe it has the best performace of any Unix-like OS. HAMMER and HAMMER2 are also really great.

It can't. The conspiracy is much deeper than people think. It's about changing attitudes, not specifically about shit like systemd.

I just find it fascinating. So much of what we've been used to in GNU/Linux is changing! Perhaps some of these changes aren't the most significant in the world, but they're still kinda cool.

I don't really believe in the whole conspiracy angle.
Systemd, like it or not, is Free Software under a copyleft license.
My personal take is that Poettering is not intentionally a CIAnigger. He's just a pajeet/womyn-tier developer in charge of something he should never have been allowed to be in charge of. that's just my theory though. Perhaps there is a conspiracy, but I'm not convinced.

Such is the nature of Linux. "GNU/Linux" is an illusion. At any point someone motivated enough could show up and completely replace the typical Linux user space with completely custom software. It could even be proprietary software. It doesn't have to be POSIX compliant either.

If you don't like it, the answer is to make your own Linux distribution. Of course, that's too hard for 99% of people here.

I miss being a naive kid, hopeful and trusting of the world. Your post makes me very nostalgic.

the (((reasons))) are that there are like 3 WMs for it. Once someone writes a library that people latch on to it will happen overnight. But wayland had a mis-step and decided to not write that library themselves.

Where will existing GNU users migrate to, HURD, BSD, Solaris?

GNU/Linux-Libre I suppose
fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/index.en.html

I swear to god I try to understand you conspiracy faggots but every single time you people fail to make any sense.

Not trying very hard then, because it's not rocket science.

I can't even pretend to understand what you're implying. How is old technology being replaced by new technology a conspiracy or even a controversial prediction.

Yeah, what part of GNU specifically is systemd depreciating?
I will say GNU could be depreciated at some point, but it won't be by systemd. It'll be by replacing GNU's libc with Musl, or the coreutils by some alternative. Which I guess may be a good thing if you're highly autistic about strict standards-compliance.

Apparently it is, for you people. You don't even know what you're talking about. It's just "systemd" or "poetteringware" with you people. Always a bunch of vague statements that provide approximately zero information or facts.

No idea.

Ask the people who think the NSA is behind everything.

I guess that's because it's a much larger topic than systemd specifically. Either you keep up with history and current events and see the patterns in society, or you're a faggot plebbitor like you who gets his worldview from university indoctrination and talks about "fud" on rationalwiki. I could go on about indicators all day and you'd never see it, just like a boomer who believes that 911 was some arabs with boxcutters.

"""""indicators""""" aren't proof. Show proof.

Sure buddy. Sure.

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. Try it out. Faggot.

absolute fucking gibberish

no u

Perhaps one could destroy systemd by starting a new init system and advertising it as "the newer ,more modern ,reliable replacement to systemd" while pretty much remaking runit or openrc(plus making a optional new method to change daemon status using gui to make it "attractive" to new users).
This would destroy the reddit arguments.

Fat chance. You'd need something that actually competes in moron usability to challenge it. That's a tall order seeing how you have to compete with CIA nigger level funding to do so. You have to understand, systemd isn't really a bad piece of software, if your goal is botnet OS (which most people don't care about.)

I was on the newest Mint and did notice serious screen tearing when I watched Youtube videos.

That's why I mentioned it when talking about AppImage.

Which is why distributions create packages for them. Alternatively the developer of the application could create the packages.

Actually there is a few more, like atleast five or six last I checked. Orbital/rust OS being one of them.

Let's try the indicators. Corperations exist to make money. (((Jewgle))) amongst other corperations owned by fake-jews are now major contributers to the linux kernel. (((Redhat/CIA))), which is also owned by the CIA, is the major and sometimes sole contributer to almost all major GNU software now. Don't believe me? Check out the committers for GDB, GCC, GLIBC, iproute2, GTK2/3, GIMP, DBUS, XORG, and etc that I can't think of off the top of my head. Now realise a license like GPL or the cuck MIT can be changed at the owner's whim. Say redhat/CIA or jewgle were the only ones contributing to a software, they could fork the code and change the license from that point on and refuse to provide updates and sue anyone who did provide updates. This would be in line with their objective as a corperation, make the software closed source/different license and then charge people for it.

SystemD is a poor quality, CIA created, and shit tier RC system with bugs throughout the implementation. It requires many things people may not need such as: a dns resolver, a dhcp resolver, a mandatory and only type able to be used with it logger. These are just the things I can name off the top of my head. The DNS resolver for example, had a remote execution code bug recently that affected every systemD distrobution. SystemD has been pushed upon all modern distros so that as normies switch to it they feel like they are using windows again. Which means feeling insecure and being botnet on a easy use GUI. Take ubuntu for example, they used to be an ok GNOME based distro. Now they are unironically connecting to and advertising (((amazon))) just from their search results IN THE OS ITSELF.

This poster is correct. On a huge scale it is slowly being undertaken to turn linux into windows lite for normies. That way you can have your jewgle botnet via DRM hardware devices and yet some FOSS for the autists like us. This requires changing the attitudes of the user base and controlling key software where this can be implemented. Such as the kernel, the general c library, and the display server and hardware.
But you can't, once the license is changed you can only ever use old versions. If you contributed code to a forked/new version still under GPL redhat/CIA could sue you. This is just one example

One problem, runit, the init system, already tried that years ago. The CIA has too much funding for propaganda and too many people infiltrating or having already infiltrated FOSS organizations like for implementing systemD and such crap. Also this

NSA is the alphabet agency who works with RedHat and their reasons aren't quite as nefarious as you think they are. The US military and other government agencies use RHEL for their Linux distro of choice. If you check out CentOS, all of those government profiles for SELinux are right there for easy redistribution. The NSA has security guidelines for OSX and Windows as well. If you're afraid of SELinux and SystemD, don't use them. The nice thing about open source is you have a choice, whether you think you do or not.

Problem is that systemd since long isn't just an init system but also swallowed like half of system services and other stuff. It's kinda a trapdoor mechanism (possibly cleverly devised that way), once a distro goes systemd and stays with it for some time, leaving it seems extremely unlikely, because you'd had to worry not only about replacing the init system, but also everything else that was relegated to systemd. Can you name a single distro which dropped systemd after choosing it as the default or only """init""" system?

Wait a second. I thought that because of the website creator for redhat, NeuStar, Inc located in virginia near the CIA headquaters, that they were controlled by the CIA. Care to give a explanation of how you came to the conclusion they are owned by the NSA? I thought the NSA and others switched from SELINUX to GRsecurity a long time ago.
Also
>choice between (((lennitware))), muslc, and cuck license

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How many of those projects require contributors to sign over their copyright to someone else? To change the license you need to get approval from everyone who has contributed / scrap their contributions.

No, I mean you don't have to follow them. They haven't eclipsed Linux. I mean I'm ignoring KDE and Gnome for so many years, and even GTK3, and Wayland (don't know what the fuck that even is), and obviously systemd, and I'm doing fine...

They don't have to change the license to do what you're talking about. They're already doing it. The license is irrelevant, and they will probably just keep it GPL to keep up the pretense that somehow Linux is different.
Even people here fall for that trick, yourself included (given how you're spouting about "cuck license"). In reality, the only way for individuals to have any level of control over their software is to keep that software simple enough you don't need huge corporations to maintain it. RMS's theory of "you can just hire a programmer" isn't good enough. The software has to be kept simple. Terry Davis is way, way more advanced and intelligent than RMS ever was, because he realized this a long time ago.

I'll give it a go, user.

The only thing I have with wayland is if the vsync is going to be forced or not.

(You) need to go back

Could not be worse than X where any application can grab any other application's window, yeah?

Oh really?

You know what? It's true but it first needs to be written in a simpler language then. By simple I mean a language which is designed to not be a footgun and which makes it harder to conceal exploitable bugs.
Otherwise, the amount of code that can be realistically reviewed for all that shit is too low to be actually useful, except for really simple problems.

…forgot to add: a good example of such language is Zig.
Easy to learn, easy to use, avoids most of the most dreaded pitfalls of C, can be used for everything that "required" C.
Not overly complicated unlike Rust and doesn't take safety to an extreme (which is somewhat futile as they still need unsafe blocks).

Can't wait for flatpaks, appimages and Wayland.

Oh shit wtf is this?

That would be nice. I mean, Windows users change that kinda shit using group policy or registry or whatever the fuck they use. Why not have a GUI frontend to service management on GNU/Linux? It wouldn't even have to be a systemd frontend, as I imagine you could also make one for OpenRC.
As far as getting rid of systemd, I'll go with my above answer. I think a server distro that uses a different init will have to rise up into popularity. Whether that's Alpine or something else remains to be seen.

Was it on XFCE? I hear that's where it's particularly awful for some people.

You're missing the point.
Let's say it's some software that for whatever reason isn't in the repos. Let's pay attention to the perspective of the dev. He can either create a package for:
as there may be users of any of those distros who may wish to use his software.
OR
He could just make one package, using a distro-independent format.
This also works because the way most people expect to get software is by going to the internet and googling the software to find an executable installer. I would imagine these new tools would help facilitate this in a distro-independent way.

adding to confusion is the fact that in the context of Linux, DRM also means Direct Rendering Manager or something.
you can't simply search commits by keywords…

I mean, do you have any specific proofs for DRM in Linux?

You mean windowsfags? Gslapt and repos are so much more convenient. Also, rpm2tgz and deb2tgz make distros irrelevant.

This whole thread smells of a shill.

afaik it has to do with HDCP, as well as some special DRM Netflix uses. I'm sure someone else has the details.

Yeah I don't buy the whole "NSA does business with RedHat therefore RedHat is NSA spyware" That'd be like if the NSA ordered a bunch of Pizzas for the office from Papa Johns, all of a sudden Papa Johns is now botnet.
They'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on. If they did, Grsecurity would have sued the fuck out of Alpine already for including their unofficial Grsec patches.

not at all. I use Void Linux (runit), and personally have no issues using a package manager or compiling.
However, not everyone is like you and I.
Until they don't have something Random person #3813240 needs/wants.
Looked em up. So they convert an RPM/Deb package into a slackware package? interesting

t. Poettering

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You also can't review or modify code that is hidden from you by being BSD/proprietary no matter how simple it is, he is just a corporate shill trying to move people away from the GPL.

what?
how exactly BSD license hides code?
(I am all for GPL but this part reads like bullshit)

lwn.net/Articles/750730/
The support for HDCP was also recently mainlined by Google, but is ostensibly unrelated.

Hello grandpa. People get their from app stores now, which is how these will be mostly distributed. But those frontends can be made for classic package managers too.

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doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/ps4-oss/

Lets be realistic it's obviously going to be abused since normally the only way for normies to get was via the paquet manager, do you think GNU/linux will survive the exact same methodology of installation that a windows operating system as ?
And inb4 you get too
Don't bullshit me on that users have now knowledge of anything if they tried they wouldn't even be capable to find the source website or depot of where the software came from.

The BSD doesn't legally oblige the company to share the source code when a BINARY is distributed.

Example:

Another example but with a compiler:

Either the software is libre or not, either the whole toolchain is libre or not.

Technically, only future versions are affected by this. The truth though is the license doesn't actually matter for 99% of developers. It only matters to corporate lawyers. Some guy violates your license, what are you going to do? Spend millions on lawyers and waste years of your life suing him? Hilarious.

Even if you're willing to do it, people's governments might not be. Russian and chinese folks violate the GPL every single day and are utterly unaccountable for it.

Really, you're all better off dropping all pretenses and just throwing the code out there. Stop lying to yourself, you're not gonna sue anybody. Last time I came in contact with this GPL drama was in the retroarch/libretro emulation community. You wouldn't believe the amount of impotent nerd rage generated by licenses violators. They did absolutely nothing about it, as expected.

You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there maintaining your own custom distro with the exact software you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about freedom and Unix way or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual developers who are trying to turn Linux into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how the conspiracy is taking away all that free work you were enjoying.

There is nothing wrong with this. The problem is how the hardware manufacturers own the keys that sign software. Don't buy toys that refuse to give you control of your own machine.

W.r.t. Linux, the legal battle is already lost as it didn't switch to a license that prevents tivoization.
So yeah, all we can is boycott hardware which doesn't respect freedom.

...

Of course not. Linus is not a nutjob like RMS. Tivoized hardware are toys, the kernel is much bigger than that. Remember that the kernel received lots of contributions from Tivo developers, so we're all better off. When Tivo is gone and forgotten, the kernel will live on.

GPL requires you also release the tools needed to build the program.

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Yes, that's exactly how it is. You're bitching about the people who are "in control" of Linux, an operating system whose user space can be completely customized. Can't you see how pathetic that is?

Try not being a pathetic luser in your next life. Maybe then you'll be able to make your poettering-free system a reality. Until then, all you're good for is swallowing whatever shit gets pushed down your throat by the powers that are driving Linux forward.

That's good but I don't remember that can you point out the line in the license please ?

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You're not helping your case.

Technology isn't like politics at all. You can just fork a repository, you don't need people's votes or approval to do it. It's as if you could suddenly make your own country if you disagree with the laws of your motherland, and if people like yours better they will move to it.

You people seem to be under the impression that this is a democracy. In fact, it's a dictatorship with hackers as the rulers. Lusers like you don't matter at all. I blame RMS and his endless politicization of technology for nutjobs like yourself.

Nah. You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there forking repositories with the exact software you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about hackers as rulers or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual hackers who are trying to turn software into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how casual shitposters are taking away something or another.

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Pff, I'm posting from the beginning of my directory.

It's what his discourse has been reduced to.

You reduced me to it with your exceptional retardedness and faggotry. I blame you.

Avatarfagging breaks the rules, report enough and he'll be banned.