FOSS Discord Clone

Crap UI at the moment. Zig Forums is already in on this
matrix.to/#/#foyer:matrix.ordoevangelistarum.com
And there are Zig Forums channels as well (but it is bit convoluted)
matrix.to/#/ tech:matrix.ordoevangelistarum.com

That is why it is called Tavrn, straight outta /v/

Other examples
matrix.to/#/#cheekyvids:matrix.ordoevangelistarum.com
matrix.to/#/#alttech:matrix.ordoevangelistarum.com

Being behind GitGud isn't really that impressive; it's just a GitLab deployment. I do like Sapphire a lot, though. That said, do we really need another group chat platform? There are literally hundreds of these fucking things, and very few of them bring much more than a few flashy but useless features over plain IRC, or even XMPP. I guess their goal here is to have a centralized platform to integrate all their services, but you could already do that with most of the existing solutions. I don't see the advantage of writing yet another platform from scratch compared to extending an existing solution.

I also find it really disconcerting that they're announcing a brand new web chat app, and going into details on its capabilities, but have no open information on the protocol. They should be jumping in, writing up the API and making sure it's sane and useable and sufficient before they even start mocking up application prototypes. The fact that they're writing up an implementation before solidifying the API implies that they're more focused on the appearance of the app and replicating Discord's appearance and features than actually building a safe and sane foundation that will outlive this specific web-app and is very open to community development. I could be wrong, though. I don't know what their architecture looks like, and it is admittedly in a beta stage.

And what is with this stupid fucking naming trend of just taking a fucking word and removing the vowels from the latter half of the word? It's everywhere and it's fucking stupid. Just call it Tavern. It's not cool or trendy to leave vowels out.

How new are you? Making FOSS clones of proprietary locked-down software has been a thing since the 80s.

The main issue is that Discord has gone full Jew, and time is running out for people to migrate to a safe haven.
Matrix is a good solution, but most consider the UI to be crap, and the E2E to be too complex. Rocketchat is what the furries are using currently, and they are doing very well.

What's the point of all this? Why can't everything just use the email protocol so you can use different clients to talk to each other? Why does every client need to have its own account system and protocol?

Email is not for groups, and is not "Instant" (as in good for starting "R4CE W4R5")

But you can have different clients talking to each other on the same protocol. Its called IRC

Have you never heard of a mailing list before

I was about to post something like this. It's as bad as the .io/.ly domain trend.

I know, why doesn't everything just use IRC? What is the purpose of these new clients that have their own system?

Retrieving past conversation when people were not online.

Not for fast-paced group chat and Ops, see

Could be the side effect of the slow raids of tumblr dykes.

So companies creates a walled garden, they don't have interests in making things more easy for the competition
Also, Facebook, at least until some years ago, uses IRC. I could connect to it with Pidgin and chat with friends, the only thing that didn't work was group messaging

Why not build over IRC using IRC itself?
Put this in gecos: IRC+1
Then make a client that can send and understand commands to improved clients, like:
PRIVMSG ircplususer :/irc+1:receive-history irc.freenode.net:##programming 147985111526
The receiving user checks whether they were logged on during that time and were in that channel, and if so sends the best possible message history it can. The sending client receives the history, and tries to piece it together from all users in the room, like a P2P swarm. The user should be able to choose whether they want to share room history or not.
For long messages, you can insert something like irc+1:more at the end of each non-complete message, and the client could piece it together.
The only issues are excess flood, and the tiny send/recv buffers irc servers allow.

Is it end-to-end encrypted?
I mean, as in Axolotl group chat encrypted.
Is it federated?
Does the client consume less than 20 megs of ram on average load?
Does the sever consume less than 100 megs when handling 1000 users?
Is it written to accommodate native OS/Compositor graphic style?

If you answered "no" to any of these questions, there is a non-zero probability your messaging platform is shit.

Already destined to fail.

Matrix does everything but the UI is shit.
Trade-off is necessary

matrix is a protocol

And Riot is the main client. None of the other clients has properly implemented the communities (+tech instead of #tech) yet

Good for them I guess.

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Then how about email?

Needs to be faster, have "rooms" and "mods", and the UI needs to be more intuitive than Thunderbird (chats goes from top to bottom instead of purely in folders and quotes)

Yeah but can't you still use email as a backend and just change the way the clients organize messages? Even if not, there should be a standard for this so we don't need all these services.

but discord fucking sucks, why would you want to use webshit for voice? it would still be complete shit if it was open source

because niggers and capitalism

Because every service wants you locked-in like the good little goy you are. And you will, because people place staying in touch way above freedom.

Shut up, nigger. This is like if Stallman's new printer firmware was functionally identical down to replicating the instability and lockout.
OP's autists have introduced nothing new or redeeming. They've simply decided to clone a really shitty system because they think it's pretty and they want their own, shitty or not.
They could have contributed to countless existing solutions that protect users with encryption, distribution, etc, but instead they're cloning Discord. You ask why they haven't said anything about the API? Because fuck API, we're here to make pretty purple and grey messages :DDDD
Fucking webshits

Good idea but WHY NOT COMPATIBLE WITH A STANDARDS (like IRC, XMPP, Matrix or whatever).

Completely useless without bridges to XMPP/IRC/Matrix. I'm ain't gonna make everyone I know make YET another profile.

It makes it possible to use a common word for the name while keeping it googlable. It's not stupid.

it says in OP's link they already have IRC bridges and plan to have more.

(cont)
To clarify, I'm not shilling it, it's still shit, they should've just made it a matrix client + whatever other shit tavrn does.

I thought you've made endchan as a better alternative to Jim's compromised site, why do you still keep coming back to shill your projects?

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That is actually a good idea.

Browser client for gayming, of course

They are making bridges a priority tho

THIS

Riot UI is still shit, and needs improving.

I don't need to show off to all of my friends exactly when I started playing Super Tux Kart, and I don't care about seeing how long my friends spend playing assfaggots or whatever shitty CoD clone is popular this week.
What he said was a matrix client, not something for Riot. Riot's just a matrix client, it isn't matrix itself; he's talking about making a replacement for the Riot frontend that looks better and has more features, instead of making an entirely new protocol. And Riot's UI is fine, I don't see what the problem with it is. The biggest issue Riot has, in my experience with it, is that E2E encryption is a buggy, barely usable mess.
What specifically do you and the other people complaining about it think is wrong with the UI?

Because shilling is the only thing Zig Forums's good for.

So search engines can only cope with one keyword is what you're saying? Removing the vowels is the most unelegant choice possible here and I can't see why someone would defend it.

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There is security value in that, if accounts are anonymized.

Just saw the post, thanks for discussing.

Tavrn because as all website turn into a realtime chat with video we want a better UI/UX. And we want our privacy respected, we're a user-supported OSS company, that means we're beholden to our users, if they don't like what we'e doing, we don't get back and we can't continue. No real name is required for the Sapphire account, just an email. And we stand on our good track record of the last 3-4 years of being open, transparent and communicative.

License is MIT, made it explicit on the gitgud repos.

We are using an open standard that App.net poured millions of dollars into planning and creating. Pnut.io is another provider using the same standard like Tavrn. Search github for all sorts of app.net clients (probably over 20 or so). App.net (ADN) documentation is available on our github repo: github.com/Sapphio/sapphire-platform-docs but you got to build/host it yourself. We currently do not support 3rd party clients. We also used the standard oauth2 protocol for identification.

Tavrn is not going to be decentralized, federated or E2E encryption (though everything can be run over SSL).

The server has no been optimized yet, most of the work has been to get code working to the spec. Running a cluster of 8, uses about 768mb of ram and can support roughly 700 people. Likely will replace nodejs with exilir or golang in the future. You can already see the web socket connecter is in golang

Since there are various client, including Beta and command line, client ram usage varie widely.

We do have a ton of bridges, including discord, irc, twitch and many more like matrix coming (pnut dude already has an oss matrix adn bridge, we just need to set it up). Connecting a ton of platforms into Tavrn is a goal of ours.

Tavrn is not mastodon based nor ever will be. However, we have a custom Mastodon server that we wrote in nodejs (will likely convert to golang or exilir in the future) that handle Mastodon clients (think mobile apps) and converts ADN into mastodon structures. This require none of the broken standards mastodon uses or any of their crappy code. Also have an irc server that lets irc client connect to our backend.

Tavrn names was chosen by user poll. Tavern with an E had no available good domain names we liked.

Tavrn is mostly written from scratch. Leveraging the existing app.net eco-system to get started but a lot of that has been now replaced. Our code quality is bad. We know it. But it's secure enough for our current level.

Endchan, where I'm an admin (not owner), is not a part of Sapphire. I also help various other imageboards including 8ch, mewch, and a bunch of smaller ones.

Any other questions?

Also check out netrunnner the browser I'm building. A lot of people are getting ready to contribute this summer. gitgud.io/odilitime/netrunner

Attached: 1505561788596.gif (200x200, 272.58K)

I bet you're fun at parties

You all are faggots. Just use TOX.

Tox isn't suited for gaymers, they will add anyone as a friend (leaking their IP address), and they've already gotten used to the commodity of discord's """ddos protection""".

kek. i just noticed this a while ago

That sounds good
That sounds worrying, but you're aware of it
How do you want to get normalfags to use your stuff over all the other options?

Is the decision on Go/Elixir not made yet or is it a matter of which dev bites the bullet? I'd imagine the languages should be equally suited

Better UI/UX, better policies, and better company. Surely we won't be for everyone.

No, it's not depending on the dev. Erlang (which exilir compiles too) isn't great for REST APIs, however it's great for chatrooms (think nodejs io handling on steroids) but projects like pleroma has had good success with using it for REST.

Erlang should be able to beat out golang hands down in IO processing. However golang/gin have very efficient webstacks. So it's a matter of the cost of REST API on erlang vs the inefficiency of golang's IO.

Also Erlang is much harder to code in. Exilir should make it a easier but how much is to be seen.

Why even use Erlang when node.js has much more traction and can do pretty much anything Erlang can do?

We already have one, it's called IRC

I agree with your values but is Sapphire run on 100% donations? Is the company and its services actually making any revenue?

no it can't. This is why WhatsApp is worth 16 instagrams; their erlang tech and talent. Erlang runs a multi-machine VM, node has nothing like this. (Clustering is limited to single-image and openmosix died years ago). This means to scale a erlang add, you just add more hardware, no code changes needed (as far I understand it, I maybe be simplifying things here)

Every single cent of donations is used on operational costs. We currently aren't paying members. The idea is to release some premium services that would fill the labor gap. Also we plan to rebrand all our software as a business brand and do a freemium play for B2B too while Sapphire stays consumer focused.

Not just Buggy E2E but the lack of "communities" and other design convolution.

Multi-word names are easy to squat, that is what SEO is for.

>(((discord)))

Do you even know what Discord is? It is closer to XMPP than IRC.

sorry I don't have any shekel to give ya

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Discord looks exactly like Slack, and Slack has FOSS clones.

Use Matrix/Riot

IRC is meme tier.

there's really no point aside from getting datamine to sell onto other dataminers or agencies.

Like this guy here?

Attached: Screenshot_20180428-120146.png (540x960, 59.83K)

Waaah why do people want to make alternatives

But Slack's FOSS clones all lack VoIP

Unless it is hosted by Zig Forums, see

But people prioritize convenience over everything
Encrypted by an unverified device
ordoevangelistarum.com/psa-discord-is-jewish-use-riot/

Reminder to always filter tripfags that aren't related to the topic discussed. Mainly

OMG people keep impersonating me. This is my real tripcode people. All the others are fakes

tripfagging is a mental illness

I'm confused at why there still exists people in this board who haven't filtered that particular tripfag

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Remember, if it is not pro-Nazi, it is botnet.
1488 Sieg Heil.

Bump for progress

niggers

(cunt)
But none of the alternatives ever catch on. GNU/Linux is the only one I can think of and even then it's a special case since an open source operating system is much better to use on something like a server than a closed source one

A good 90% of the time, being open source isn't enough of a selling point for the people who would theoretically be using your product since they can't code, don't understand code, and most of the time don't care what's in that code as long as it doesn't affect the software's usability.

Tavrn Tap won't replace Discord because most people will see it as "Discord but without all of my friends on it", and will move on. Even a lot the people who do know the difference will end up getting dragged back to Discord because, again, all of their friends are on Discord

You can't sell a program simply on being FOSS. It sucks, but that's what it is

Tavrn = Twitter/Gab/Mastodon/Facebook
Tap = Discord/Matrix/XMPP/Messenger

At this rate they will go full Facebook in feature design.

This has a great B2B potential.

People will jump ship --whether to a better or worse one is another matter entirely-- when their cancerous favorite e-celeb or media outlet shilling and fearmongering gets to them, or when an "Equifax" hits them (i.e. mass leak of "personally identifying information" whatever that means). Just look at Skype. People ditched it because it's horribly bloated, sucks your bandwidth, "gives others your IP", and Microsoft "sells your information and spies on you" (faggots believe Discord doesn't spy on them but that's a different problem).
So if you can dispell widespread belief that Discord is this "awesome" service provided free of charge out of goodwill for the "benefit of gamers", people will switch to anything else faster than you can say botnet.

nice botnet

There's a difference here though. Discord was, and is, functionally distinct from Skype. Tavrn doesn't do enough different to make it stand out

Also, I never said I liked Discord

it is? they both look like webshit that crashes every minute and collects unnecessary amounts of information to me. and they both support voice and groups.

Gee, it's like they cover the same use cases.
Only difference is you can pay on Skype to phone someone. But why do that if you can just "WhatsApp" 'em.

Are you going to support ActivityPub or Matrix federation on Tavrn and Tap respectively?

If bot, what keeps this from being just as shitty as Discord if it is ultimately a centralized service as well? If it can't bridge to anything else, how does it grow a userbase with no tangible benefits beyond your word that you've made no changes to the free and open source server and client software? Do you implement libre.js?

...

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Bridging and federation are not the same thing. Odilitime has expressed an interest in bridging to Matrix but not full support for federated features, including Matrix 3PID and Identity Services, federation allowing for users of other Matrix services to connect to rooms without a user account on Tavrn Tap and users of Tavrn to join non-Tavrn Matrix rooms, syncing room states, E2E between users of the respective services, video and audio calling between users of different servers, and a lot more enabled by full support for the Matrix Client-Server, Server-Server, and Identity APIs.

A bridge just means a bot can connect rooms from each service without respect to the standards; the question is whether Tavrn will support the full Matrix and oStatus/ActivityPub standard, or in practice only have hacked together "support" to talk to things that do.

Also, from what I can gather odilitime has a hard time separating oStatus and ActivityPub as protocols from the service Mastodon while (poorly) implements them and without regard to other services like GNUsocial and Pleroma which implement them as well. Getting an answer that appraises the protocols and his intent to support them, and not just Eugen Rochko's shit implementations thereof, could certainly help other users decide whether to take him seriously and call him out for being full of shit.

It's a shit thread for a shit idea but if Odilitime steps up and offers a damn good explanation why he's snubbing Matrix, it might make things a bit less shit.

As it stands now, it's shit for the following:
1. It's buggy, the private chanenl button would often get stuck. sometimes it just wouldn't load, sometimes it would refuse to upload.
Note: All of these were fixed with a F5 but it's fucking annoying
2. I can not figure out how to order channels, I'm trying to clone my Discord yet I literally can't.

This beta a shit.

Trust us Goyim, our walled garden is open source!

Bullshit

Weoooooooooooooow!!!!!!

Get fucked. I'm getting 404s on my mixtape links and they haven't paid server fees for a month. Don't just start a new project

I don't think you guys know what I mean, and it's entirely my fault, because I'm really fucking bad with words

What I meant was that normies could clearly tell the difference between skype and discord, which isn't the case for tavrn tap.

We can tell the difference because we're smart, but some mouth-breathing highschool kid? Hell no! He'll take one glace at it, decide that it's just discord with a different name, and stop using it before he really gets into it, which is only if he decides to try it in the first place, which isn't very likely

I call it the Zig Forums effect. Zig Forums is very similar to 4chan on a surface level, but when you spend enough time on it you'll see that Zig Forums is a much better website with a better user interface and more features. Normies won't be willing to use Zig Forums long enough to see its qualities, will write it off as a less popular 4chan, and will leave before they get the chance to truly appreciate the site

Crybones?

It's the same with many imageboards. Many others just simply die because that kind of effect is so large it can't build a userbase.

Well Gab.ai knows this and they made themselves different from Twitter.
Same with Aminoapps and Discord/Reddit/Voat.

Exactly

GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER
t. Pooka

but the real reason why gamers can't use tox is because of LATENCY not your silly ip and tox was never meant for gaymehrs there's mumble for that already

Why name it Tavrn rather than Tavern? Is this supposed to be some joke that I missed?

Okay never mind odilitime answered my question already here