Is anyone here part of a local meshnet/community network, like this one? nycmesh.net
What's it like?
Mesh networking
Matthew Sanders
Other urls found in this thread:
ronja.twibright.com
youtube.com
git.kernel.org
freifunk.net
github.com
gluon.readthedocs.org
openmesh.com
twitter.com
wiki.freifunk.net
wiki.freifunk.net
archive.is
open-mesh.org
twitter.com
Matthew Morales
Fuck off
Anthony Martinez
Getting v8nned for some faggod townloading cp while routed through your node, that's what it's like.
Isaac Price
this is what 5g is going to be, only your not going to have any control over it. say goodbye to buying your own internet, instead your only option will be to pay to use a shared node. instead of 100mb/s dedicated right to you, your going to pay twice as much and get get a 100mb/s line shared with 50 nodes.
Anthony Foster
hooray for the future!
Owen White
Every single time there's a new standard, retards like you claim it's the globalist takeover and they're going to charge you double. I pay less for unlimited internet than I did for 5G p/m only a few years ago.
Caleb Hughes
You really think that your wired connection is not shared among few dozens of other people? Have you ever heard about QoS and overselling?
To be honest, literal botnet mandatory femtocells in every room for "good signal reception", pieces of hardware you don't actually own is not something to be eager about. I bet you're also ok with your ISP-issued router.
Jacob Gonzalez
Brainlet alert.
I run a librecmc router.
Nolan Bailey
i'm more pissed off about the trend of shared internet service being forced in apartments.
it's becomming more and more common place that that the apartment building signs an agreement with the ISP, and then if you want internet, you have to pay $30-50/mo to get access to the apartment wifi. No option to get your own internet is available.
This happens more in big cities obviously, but it's in the interest of the ISP to give a single 100mbit line to the apartment complex, charge them $3000/mo, and let the apartment charge the customers instead of charging individually for $30-50 and having to give everyone a 100mbit line. The kikes will do this even after you move in to and you wont' be able to get out of your lease over it.
Brandon James
and yes if you want a business line and the ISP knows damn well 50 people are going to be using it it does cost $3000/mo. Hotels get fucked with this as well.
Brandon Allen
You just route everything over tor and then you don't have to worry.
John Morris
Give me one (1) article of someone using a network of that kind getting v& without downloading or uploading 100% of a file with illegal shit directly.
In networks like Freenet and Perfect Dark, you won't seed 100% of something if you didn't choose to download it yourself.
Luis Morgan
This is horrible indeed. How can it be stopped?
Matthew Ramirez
This is the most cancerous shit I've ever heard, fuck.
Joshua Sanchez
To not be an offsubject faggot, no. My area is far too sparsely populated to support a mesh network. The only system I can imagine working would be to drill into the bedrock and use high-amplitude, low-frequency audio to transmit a signal.
Hudson Fisher
People don't know shit about computers in my part of the city. I'd need some serious range and a gun to shoot down green-glowing FCC agents trying to dismantle my hardware.
I'd love to be a part of one but you can't be a network with a single peer.
Anthony Nelson
I concur. Mesh networking is pushed by Goolag. OP can go die
Jaxson Ramirez
It's good enough for the FaceBook niggers. That is the problem
Ian Anderson
It's probobly not. Facebook niggers also watch youtube and netflix, streaming 1080p takes between 18 and 25Mbps. 4-5 people streaming and you're tubes are clogged. Even 720p would only allow maybe 8-9 people to stream, and that is assuming you are actually getting the full 100Mbps, which you never are.
Anthony James
This is true, in fact 86% of web traffic was purely going to Netflix on the back-haul link when i worked for an ISP.
But the underlying problem still exists, FaceBook Niggers are complacent. They will not do shit about it if it's not stupid easy.
Nathan Wilson
Jordan Lee
Yes there's a little bit of quality loss with vp9, but that is what HEVC is for since there is no noticeable quality loss with it, and most normies only want the word behind 4k and aren't so autistic about the little details. For those that are there can be a "high quality but slower" option.
Aiden Edwards
then you need hardware decoding for HEVC or the normies will complain
Elijah Barnes
Perform denial of service attacks on the network, regularly changing your MAC address and reconnecting so they can't ban you easily.
Asher Russell
Don't live in those places.
Ryan Mitchell
Dylan Gutierrez
If you are the owner of the whole apartment complex, then good for you. If you don't own the apartment, you have no right to dictate what they allow into the place. You're supposed to take your wallet and move it some place that does what you need.
Nolan Russell
you'd likely be v& for violating FCC consumer radio limitations and providing some service that violates ISP national security.
decentralized networks aren't immune to cp but so are honeypots. the point is to restrict protocols for each type of files
you can restrict protocols so you won't accidentally shit the net
hoping 5g gets a terrible flaw causing another free access
(((net neutrality)))
Dylan Jenkins
move, faggot
Luis Campbell
We're talking about current shit, not guessing what future laws may do. There's a reason why the 2.4GHz space is used by shittons of wireless devices out there: anyone can use it.
Also
Angel White
Can I stay at your place?
Cooper Hall
Why? You're capable of killing government agents with the full force of the government behind them but you're not capable of finding your own place? Are you autistic?
Luis Edwards
What if I don't want to live alone?
Ian Sullivan
Then you have autism.
Brayden Edwards
Don't autistic people prefer being alone? You seem to want that too. Hmm
Luke Rivera
No you don't and they won't complain and here is why. Normies have what are essentially the pocket supercomputers of yesterday in their pockets. If you are, as a normalfag, streaming 4k video over 4g/LTE, then the proccessor doing the computation in CPU and not gpu is going to take much less power then the neccessary uptime for the cellular modem to transfer all 196MB of that data. But if it were in HEVC you wouldn't need all that cellular uptime to use the battery to transfer data.
Now for people with home entertainment systems they too are not going to complain about no hardware decoding, why you ask? Because their machines are plenty more then fast enough to decode in software without major effiency loss. Sure using MP4 is going to save them battery life if they watch a smaller resolution video or a video that is not streamed. But for normalfags streaming the battery savings, and thereby effieceny nuts among them, are going to not complain because of reduced wifi/cellular uptime and loading which is much more grevious to them then a POSSIBLE lack of hardware decoding, of which most normalfags don't even understand the difference between software and hardware decoding.
Parker Johnson
YouTube feeds VP9 to everyone, whether they have hardware decoding or not. Why would normies complain about HEVC on Netflix?
Carson Jones
No why should I be?
Elijah Allen
Some people don't have a choice
Jason Rivera
Because normalfags wouldn't know what HEVC even is
Ryder Reed
Too fucking bad! I don't have the choice to own a luxury cruiser and you don't see me sabotaging other people's cruisers out of jealousy. You go get a job somewhere else, go live somewhere else, or you suck it up.
Easton Wood
The dream is fucking dead bro, just give up. Look at all the replies basically admitting what I said!
Ryder Sanchez
I am the OP for the following thread:
I did not see this thread (the one we are in) in the catalog - then again I didn't look as I thought that not too many people were aware of mesh-networking.
-
My original idea was to have an enclosed mesh network, with absolutely no access to outside 'internet' - almost like a network, but be able to do everything we can on regular clear-net on this closed off network - ie. access a web-page that was created on someone's personal computer, download files (providing that they are put in the appropriate 'shared directory), send p.m's, etc...It would be totally original content - the content on the network/intra-net
Is anyone following my derailed train of thought?
Noah Martinez
oh, i thought software HEVC decoding was more intensive and thus causes stuttering and worse battery life than whatever silly MPEG standard is used today
Lucas Allen
I still like the idea of mesh networking, but
No, I don't want that.
UTP is cool, Coax is decent, Li-fi is cool vaporware, Fibre is effectively vaporware, leaving us with wireless radio based protocols. But they're so insecure.
Ayden Thomas
Are you an ISP shill? Who is he sabotaging, the ISP fags jewing an entire building?
Jonathan Torres
Nah not part of any though there are Freifunker here.
But what they mostly do just amounts to a gateway to the internet which IMO kinda goes against the appeal of a mesh network.
We more or less need Freenet but on a meshnet and not fucking dead to use the pros of a mesh net.
Tyler Morgan
or
Christian Butler
Optical links can go pretty far, so long as you have good visibility. Here's one you can build yourself: ronja.twibright.com
Logan Foster
I don't see much discussion about CJDNS around here, I love the project and would be super happy to hear from other people who work with it. I'm not a fan of the node.js dependency but the tech seems super promising for a large scale meshnet.
Ian Baker
Last time I checked it was pure C++. What do they need node.js for? Also CJDNS does have its issues (either all participating nodes need to run CJDNS or you need NAT66 fuckery; long path lengths) that are protocol inherent.
Charles Diaz
Seems like they introduced nodejs in late 2013 for some optional (?) administration tools.
Just had a glance at their code. Seen better, seen worse. I wouldn't trust it with anything critical.
Grayson Diaz
I'm about convinced my ISP shares a single 100mbit line with the whole county at this point.
Camden Gomez
Yeah I guess it's a bit of a set back that all nodes need to be running CJDNS but I still quite like the idea of an IPv6 native, encrypted by default, easy to deploy mesh network. I also am really not a big fan of how it handles IPv4 for something large scale but there's definitely a few workarounds.
The test networks I've made with VMs were pretty nice, quick to set up and easy to learn. Lately I have been trying to branch into getting it on openWRT so I can build a mini physical test network to teach a few people to set up nodes for me and distribute them to make a local meshnet, the end goal of my plan is much bigger but I gotta start small and test thoroughly.
I guess I have more reading to do as I thought it was more dependent on nodejs, that's good news though since that should help cut the size down drastically for me to get it running on my test hardware.
I haven't dug into other mesh protocols yet as cjdns seems to be exactly what I want to implement and enables me to have easy control over who/what I allow to join my mesh, why wouldn't you trust it for something critical? Just since it's new and still in need of testing or are there bigger flaws i'm not seeing?
Christian Thompson
- As I said, not the cleanest code (but not bad either). Look at dht/Address.c, Address_fromString.
- Mostly written by one autist who can't write proper commit messages
- Lack of test coverage
- Lack of detailed documentation
I know, I know. Maybe I'm judging too harshly. But I'd expect more of software that does crypto and that is exposed to the internet. I wouldn't call it new either, it's been around for a few years now.
Tyler James
If given a couple of hours, i could make a basic mesh network using a few microcontrollers and maybe using IR LED, or 433MHz links or 2.4GHz links as the physical layer
The hard thing about mesh network isn't making it, its spreading it wide enough to be relevant
Hudson Jones
You're not being harsh, those are legitimate reasons to be wary of something.
Documentation is actually something i'm hoping to work on as I get further in my project. And the only reason I call it new because its largely untested and doesn't have many people working on it yet. I fully believe that working on getting more people to adopt it and use it will get the attention of more competent developers and they can help clean it up.
Jose Parker
Proceeds to only use buzzwords and states they can do something that is stupid easy. You're not going to spread a mesh wide enough using IR LEDs, 433MHz, or 2.4GHz kiddo.
Jeremiah Jackson
Your physical layer is useless without routing. Show me a routing protocol that is
- completely decentral
- scalable to many millions of nodes
- resilient against attacks
If you know shit about networking besides buzzwords, you can answer this.
Easton Mitchell
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Brayden Cooper
last I checked it was what they use instead of a Makefile
Anthony Roberts
cjdns
Owen Gutierrez
doesn't scale well
Brody Wood
it's called contention ratio
Carson Brown
and that's a good thing
Daniel Gray
How is anyone even supposed to test #2? And to test #3 they'd need to test #2 first.
Jonathan Ross
Calculate and/or simulate it.
Samuel Morris
How does it not scale well? It has a huge address space and depending on the way you build your mesh, it can easily scale well.
William Carter
You wouldn't even have the need for anime if you didn't live in a shithole.
Wyatt Richardson
Like causing serious health problems and degrading our body's ability to function because of the exposure to 5g radiation:
Samuel Price
spbp
Gavin Williams
SHIGGY DIGGY DOO
Alexander Mitchell
What's next, taking Terry Davis seriously?
David Rivera
If we are talking about wireless, why aren't we taking the 5GHz band seriously? It's legal, underused, supported by a lot of hardware, are there some silly regulations against its use outdoors?
git.kernel.org
I don't see too much of "NO-OUTDOORS" rules at 5GHz.
I myself thought about finding some optimal hardware, equipping it with OpenWRT and some software and market it as an "alternative city network with no flat rates". Has potential?
Easton Hernandez
At the powers available for unlicensed use, it has a very short distance.
Tyler Bell
Well, looking at the US bands, there is one band that is allowed 30 dBm (apparently the other ones are also allowed 30 dBm just in master mode). Is it an inherent problem of 5GHz compared to 2.4GHz that shortens the distance (I'm not too well versed with radio)? From what I know, the relative obscurity of 5GHz (compared to the abused 2.4GHz) should make up for that issue.
< 60GHz
This document also notes, that most of the European countries allow for at most of 27dBm on 5GHz.
Jeremiah Thomas
Yes. 5GHz doesn't penetrate matter very well, think about FM or AM radio that goes through walls. 2.4GHz is actually quite poor at this too, it can't go through water containing matter like trees or animals. The atmosphere in this case actually diffuses the radio signals and makes them weak very quickly.
There are companies that make wireless links using 5GHz bands, but they require a license, use a huge amount of power, and are designed with a directional antenna.
Typically, the lower the frenquency the longer the range. It still depends on how much power someone is dumping through the transmitter though.
Jaxon Roberts
Just to clarify this, 2.4 GHz is not some magic resonant frequency or something that's particularly well suited for heating water.. 2.4 GHz is absorbed by water just as well as 2.2 or 2.6 GHz.
Landon Gomez
Thank you for info user. I'm reading more on the issue of mesh networking and I found out, that there's a large movement in Germany (started about 2004) regarding such networks which produced B.A.T.M.A.N. as a protocol to solve the routing issue. Parts of that are already part of the upstream Linux kernel. I think B.A.T.M.A.N. is more of a toolbox to create local mesh networks and cjdns is a working network, mostly overlayed over IPv4.
Here it's shown how such localmeshes work in practice: freifunk.net
Those networks mostly use aforementioned batman-adv, some use 802.11s and there are sometimes also used Babel, OLSR and OLSRv2 solutions (wikipedia describes B.A.T.M.A.N. as a replacement of OLSR).
These people mostly use a firmware called "gluon", which is OpenWRT based:
github.com
gluon.readthedocs.org
I found a company creating at least custom hardware solutions:
openmesh.com
I wonder about possible uses of such networks. We could explore the [1] link, because there are a lot of communities. One possibility that comes into mind is filesharing due to a large attack on filesharing in the internet (man, I thought at least abandonware could become free to share one day, but even that poses monetary incentive for some people...) and such a network is definitely immune from ISP-level surveillance. I'm quite sure it could be also used for local services, like local social networks. I don't see too many existing software packages though, so I kinda assume it's mostly used just as the internet access. Well, if I find anything else on that matter, I will certainly share.
Of course, the main problem is the network effect. But I'm sure there's a lot to learn from Germans on all those matters for anyone interested.
Kevin Moore
An example network looks like this. It's far from looking dead. I guess the blue circles are the Gluon/B.A.T.M.A.N. nodes and small purple circles are devices.
Source: twitter.com
Xavier Taylor
cjdns is also a toolbox to create mesh networks, which may or may not be local
Hyperboria is the main network that uses cjdns.
Noah Morgan
Ok, looking more at how such a network is organized. How to join a network (in English):
wiki.freifunk.net
A much more complete page about how such a network is constructed:
wiki.freifunk.net
archive.is
Berlin is quite a complicated example, apparently B.A.T.M.A.N. doesn't scale well to such a big network and Berlin still has a lot of old technology in use. Yet it works. So it's possible to take over the networking from big companies.
Oh, by the way, regarding the networks, Berlin network runs mostly on 2.4GHz channel 13 (channels 12 and 13 are typically legal around the world, but not in the US and they are underused, channel 14 is legal basically only in Japan).
Parker Cruz
Isn't channel 13 Bluetooth? It looks interesting. I always wondered what B.A.T.M.A.N. was anyways when configuring kernel. This might work for small groups of people networking together, but they would have to be sure to be in close range with each other or have no objects in the line of sight. Without a tall tower and a +30 dB parabolic antenna, the ranges for 2.4GHz are poor when compared to a band like 900 MHz. That I could see extending range to several km with the right equipment setup.
Lucas Martinez
I'm guessing it's already been done/tried. I2P is like that, except it's an overlay, not a meshnet, but it would be reasonable to assume people have done the same. Is that what a piratebox is?
I think there's a 4chan thread up now of people doing what you are talking about, but there isn't good node density for obvious reasons.
Cameron Garcia
Note that B.A.T.M.A.N. creates L2 networks. Do you know what happens when large L2 networks grow large, especially when wireless? In Aachen, one of Freifunk's largest communities with a couple of thousand users, they're facing massive scaling issues - and that's with centralized management of the network and heavy filtering of any broadcast traffic. You won't be able to create a fully decentralized large scale network with B.A.T.M.A.N.
Landon Ramirez
Care to explain why? If I understood their page correctly it is supposed to also store the routing informaion decentralized.
Luke Morales
Oh wait, I didn't know there's an older version that does routing instead of switching. Their page says development hasn't continued in years. I don't know if it is any good and how well it scales.
Ian Sullivan
Also note that Freifunk for most parts isn't meshed because the wifi routers are too far away from each other. Most routers connect to each other via a central VPN server via DSL.
Josiah Hall
What is the most successful, decentralised mesh network that would continue to work if ISPs died?
I think Cuba's SNET may be the biggest. Do Freifunk or guifi.net qualify?
Colton Myers
Huh? I checked out their page and it says open-mesh.org
they have a release this year so it looks active to me.
I doubt Freifunk qualify, they mainly seem to focus on providing free internet access
Luke Russell
Today that's their main focus, but they started out with the intention to create resilient, alternative infrastructure. Some still wish to, but this isn't something that's easily done by putting some wifi routers up onto trees.
What people (especially here in this thread!) need to realize is that you can't just do this by stapling together code that someone else has already written. If it was that easy, someone else would have done it long, long ago. There are thousands of people who would. But the way to decentralization is harsh and full of traps and failure. The first step on this way is to realize that you can't just walk on other peoples' shoulders. You have to get your own feet and hands dirty, and many before you failed. You have to write code that nobody has written before. You have to create algorithms that might only exist on some phd thesis right now, if at all. Many bright people already tried.
The worst thing you can do is to try to meme for support and hope someone else will do it.
Logan Gomez
No that's all pretty false, you do stand on the shoulders of other people and a lot of other projects and the parts that are of interest to you should serve you as guidance, be it in raw code form or simply for making pitfalls obvious.
Not only is it simply more realistic that you will be able to wrap existing code or outright programms in terms of motivation and skill but it will also enable you to isolate errors better, not leaving you alone as when something crashes and burns.
Angel Phillips
I'm not calling for reinventing the wheel. Of course we all stand on the shoulders of giants, but we can't take that for granted. We can only get up so high relying on previous work. At some point we (that includes YOU) have to get our hands dirty and do things ourself. Merely looking up ready-made and pre-packaged software on the internet and clicking setup.exe is the lowest form of advancing technology actually, it's right above "memeing" for support
Zig Forums, learn how networks work, learn to actually program not some meme language like Lisp or Visual Basic and write the first 10000 Lines.
Lucas Harris
Channel 13 bluetooth ?
Nyet, it overlaps with wifi, and uses another encoding.
Actually the wifi channels are not all the same according to the different countries.
To talk about freifunk's main objectives :
They actively place wifi routers in migrant asylums.
It became more another commie / immigration club than an actually a hackers group.
To talk about the tech, they do have local meshing and pass the internet access over that.
They are (or were) forced by the German law to tunnel all network connections to a foreign IP to avoid legal trouble. (Illegal downloads are a major concern, especially since the connection is open for EVERYBODY with a wifi device)
Also due to that being a L2 network they have of course insane mac table, and had to divide the network to avoid major problems with that.
Quite ironic to build network to have to split itself up to avoid major conflict caused by the building of the network
James Miller
Most hackers in germany are commies.
Not only because they're commies but also because the hardware and uplink in the asylum is paid for it by the local government, so it doesn't cost them a penny.
What do you mean "foreign"? Freifunk's largest community, Freifunk Rheinland has their own AS (49009) which they use to run their VPN exit nodes inside Germany. AFAIK they officially operate as an ISP so they're not legally responsible for their users.
Caleb Gomez
0.1% of 1000 frames of CP is still going to get you v&
Jacob Ramirez
So... if I make my home a rain forest with a giant humidifier and tropical plants everywhere, with water sealed walls, ceiling, floor... and some rotating fans, I'll be in a signal vacuum? I'll throw in some wildlife too.