"It's all so depressing"

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Really everything is subjective so you saying that eating horse shit is taste good is just as equally valid as saying that a gourmet meal is good.
It does not matter if none of us have food and we all starve to death, what matters is how the food was produced.

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Sounds like a rational dude, can you tell me some more about his insights?

hmm

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oh yeah Unuchs are just so skeptical and free thinking it's not like they need to be indoctrinated to learn the correct and true way to use machines lmao

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism
Not him. But while atheism itself is not a religion, many self described atheists do fall into the trap of applying the scientific method to subjects it doesn't belong in such as philosophy and blindly following scientific rhetoric. You can be an atheist without being anti-theist

You should be an anti-theist. You don't say
you just say
I would never go

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I just like programs that work user. I'm not a "muh unix way" poster.

There's always like you know? Being apathetic towards theists instead of being a disingenuous faggot? I understand lack of nuance and a tendency towards black and white thinking is a symptom of autism however so I'll try to go slow for you

Amiga was cheaper than IBM PC in the 80's, and more performant, and easier to program (m68k > x86), and had all the multimedia stuff 10+ years ahead of the competition. But people still bought IBM PCs, because nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. In 1990 you could by an A3000UX with UNIX for a small fraction of the price of a "big brand" vendor like Sun. If you think anything in the market is primarily based on merit, I've got a bridge to sell you. Hell, 10-15 years ago I tried to "sell" OpenBSD to people who were afraid of getting their servers and devices pwnd by hackers, or getting hassled to release their source code on stuff deployed at the customer (since part of it was kernel modifications that I don't want to get into but would have been trivial to do on any Unix OS). Nope, "But we need Linux, it's the industry standard, yada-yada". Look, you just can't help these people. That's why the big companies who have already cornered the market do so well.

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Yes we should just forget the long history of religious insanity.

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oy vey saying magical sky man does not exist is insanity!

Autists have anosognosia; you're better off not telling him anything. Think of the people here that screech NO WOMAN EVER HAS EVER KNEW TOPOLOGY!!! -- Any sane, in-tune-with-reality person doesn't doubt their ability. Rather, he knows that females that want to learn STEM will do so; and females that are better fit for other professions will go elsewhere -- and that is fine.

True. Perhaps its more of a service to the sane people here to do keep in mind that on an anonymous image board you do tend to post around legitimately mentally Ill people without realizing it. "Autism" is more than just a generic insult used here

Uh, they're actually all fucking DUMB BITCH WHORES that have less BRAIN CELLS and ONLY LEARN ALGEBRA TO VIRTUE SIGNAL!!!!

of course this retard is an atheist

oy vey the lisptard is also a christcuck

It's just sad.
The people fawning over garbage like Linux and ARM are like medieval peasants spending the entire day tilling the fields, and then feeling gratified after mending a thatch roof so that it doesn't leak as much as it used to; completely unaware of the marvels of Roman architecture that ruled the landscape before (Xerox workstations, Amiga, Apple ][, Lisp Machines, Oberon, Multics, DISER Lilith, ITS). These are forgotten, but never can be un-created.

But atheism is in fact philosophy based on ignorance.
In 13th century St. Thomas Aquinas provided 5 logical arguments that prove existence of God.
Since conclusion of that proof concludes thing that, by definition, cannot exist within atheism we must conclude that ether there is mistake in the proof or that atheism is wrong. Therefore if atheism is right you, or some other atheist charlatan, must prove that there is something wrong with the proof.
Since no one managed to disprove St. Aquinas only logical thing that we can conclude is that atheism is wrong.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ways_(Aquinas)#The_Five_Ways

tl;dr: 13th century monk rekt atheists by using logic

tldr everything is caused by something so that means there is a magical man in the sky that created our existence in 6 days. great argument christ cuck.

Nice try, fedora, but only thing that you have proven is that you are ignorant charlatan.
hint: if you want to prove or disprove logical argument you cannot use straw man arguments and name calling

One and two make three, so therefor god is a woman. See how non sequiturs work? Disprove my logic faggot!

Objective quality of code exists independently of your subjective opinions, the fact that in 2018 I still experience screen tearing because of how shit X is isn't my subjective opinion but instead a demonstrable fact. X is an example of the "good enough" mentality in FOSS and Wayland isn't looking to be much better either.

Whats most depressing is that it doesn't have to be this way, if FOSS developers weren't as lazy as they are, if they were open minded enough to overcome their baby duck syndrome towards their programming paradigms, if they were critical of their own code, and if they were able to throw out everything and start from scratch rather than just hack existing code then we wouldn't be in this mess. There are some groups such as Data61 who are bucking this trend but its a tiny minority in a sea of mediocrity.

Like so many other ideologues you are putting the cart before the horse. To achieve a free society you don't need free software as much as you need people wanting to actually use free software. The software being good is what gets most people through the door, not the software being FOSS.

Linux is just a long series of good enough hacks on top of good enough hacks on top of good enough hacks and it fucking shows, the only reason why I use it is because of my dislike of MS/Apple/etc shitty business practices.

If you want our little debate to continue I require that you plainly state which part of argument given by St. Aquinas is wrong.

How is this related to proof of existence of God?

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I'd be more depressed if all software was perfect. What to do then?

You actually believe that? You decide on a premise that is purely technical and completely ignore human society and capitalism as factors. There is probably a device in your pocket which disprove your hypothesis.

I really couldn't care less if people use Linux or not, it's not my problem. Let Google create a desktop distribution and everyone would be using Linux within a few years, why would I care?

You should report the bug. I don't experience what you say and I run X11 on 5+ very different machines. If you would rather use the bug or configuration problem as an argument in an internet discussion than solving the problem, then I'm very sorry for being a constructive voice of opinion.

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The part where its a total non sequitur

You both have to go back. This is Zig Forums

Which part? Why can't you quote it?
What are you basing that conclusion on? Your opinion? Or your feelings?

I literally did.

I'm not the user you're arguing with, but the bottom third of the page literally highlights flaws with Aquinas' ways

mac+windows is shit too you retard nigger. the quality of proprietary code is indistinguishable from the quality of open source code. that's because they are created in the exact same way. hiring a bunch of incompetent people who were trained by incompetent people to "solve" problems with no oversight.

Lol bullshit. Proprietary code is better in almost every way.

The same thing you're doing now but without having RSI and eye strain from working around the same 5 bugs in each program 300 times per day. Or you could just kys.

shut the fuck up LARPer and/or cucksumer

Also if you're the same idiot talking about "good enough", that's funny because the whole "good enough"/UNIX thing is applied to all software today. Windows is basically the same shit as UNIX despite a few minor differences LARPers like to pretend to care about such as sockets not being files and some other bullshit complaints about the filesystem being slightly less retarded than on Linux or BSD. UNIX is just when you have some moronic operating system centered around files and domain names, the first is a terrible abstraction and the second is useless garbage. You might as well center the entire OS around HTTP requests or PDF documents. "Good enough" is the brain damaged engineering mindset that created the "UNIX way". It is why there's no way to run unprivileged software securely on a Linux machine even today and why you can't securely input a string from the internet as a parameter to a shell program (or even have a shell program securely output something from the internet for that matter). Modularity is and was always an obvious engineering concept. People get confused and think we're saying modularity is bad if we don't like the UNIX way. Nope.

Yeah buddy, you ether have to explain what is wrong with it or admit that you cannot disprove five ways.

I am not arguing with anyone. I am just trying to get that user to say what he thinks is wrong with those five ways. I tried to find the flaw and failed, so now I am interested in what other peoples ideas about it are. But, sadly, user is constantly evading to answer my questions.
Btw. last third also states that those proofs by Kant and Hume against five ways might be flawed themselves.

It goes beyond software, it has been applied to every aspect of life.

Can't wait to start the pogroms for you retards.

Neither of those is all that hot TBQH

How the FUCK would either of you know?

Also not user you're arguing with, nor the user mentioning the same thing, but although the argument is sound, I think you and daddy Aquinas approaching it with unnecessary conclusions, such as:
- We should worship God
- God is the Abrahamic God, and not some other God
- There cannot be infinite loops
- We can know standards for good and bad
Actually, fuck, Aquinas makes a logical contradiction w/r/t A4:
- "Aquinas did not think the finite human mind could know what God is directly, therefore God's existence is not self-evident to us."
- It follows that God's standards for good and bad are unknowable
- Thus, we cannot know if God is good

Furthermore, it comes with some basic assumptions which can be doubted:
- There is an external world
- There is a reference point for meaning
and et cetera
- There is goodness

tbh there's a fair bit wrong and all this shit is vague, deleriousity. Self crit dude BBBB)

the fact that a piece of software is proprietary or free doesn't tell anything about the quality of the code. It's just that bugs tend to get fixed faster in popular free and open source software projects vs. proprietary software (developers who work on proprietary projects might not be motivated to fix stuff if their bosses tell them to implement new meme features, for example)

I'm sorry I forgot to say that I'm a software engineer who enjoy solving problems. I should have realized it was not obvious on this tech board. You are a computer user I understand, sorry for interrupting your complaints about other peoples work.

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Isn't Wayland by the same people who basically fucked up X? X used to be fairly simple prior to the mid 90's when they started adding all kinds of nasty bloated extensions and the desktop environment craze began. This guy touches on the subject a little:
youtube.com/watch?v=iwACaudSa9E

Imagine being so insecure that you felt the need to say that on an anonymous board.

I don't say that you are wrong but:
-Microsoft windows is installed per default on 99,99% of sold computers.
-Microsoft, Apple, Google have marketing/hype campaigns.
-Hardware manufacturers don't make drivers under a free license.
-Hardware specs are mostly not available.
-Microsoft, Apple, Google have billions to make drivers (and even with that they still do shit but it at least just works).
-The Linux kernel/foundation works for Intel, MS, Google.
-Minix is funded by the CIA/NSA.
-Red-hat is the MS of open source.
-Canonical/ubuntu is the windows of GNU/linux distributions

-GNU/FSF does not have marketing/hype campaigns.
-GNU/FSF sustain on a small 500K/1Million donation a year while MS,Apple, Google spends hundreds of millions into ads.
-GNU/FSF is being constantly attacked either directly via EEE or community infiltration (diverting them from their true goal and invest resources on projects like the Outreach Program for Women).

You forgot that most schools are also brainwashed by Microsoft, Apple and Google.

What in particular hurt your feelings, Anonymous? Did I say something untrue or does the truth hurt? I think the few engineers on this board will agree that this board is full of lurkers who does nothing other than complain.

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One and two make three, so therefor god does not exist. Prove me wrong! Pro tip you can't. This is called a non sequitur bud. Go back to logic 101.

LOL

Then go make your own board. What is stopping you? Do you need to co-opt other boards to suit your purposes like a fucking SJW/leftist type shitting up everything good?

I think I know your problem, it's actually hard to do something useful, it's easier to bitch and moan at others to do stuff for you.

Well this board is good enough you see

And so the kike outs himself

You're completely missing the point, and vituperating me for no reason -- congrats. Maybe you're the leftist? I wouldn't want other people to do stuff for me, but I'm trapped in a world where bondage and discipline paradigms have won. With all these standards, you need millions of lines of code for little effect (example: web browsers and modern operating systems). Daring to not follow these standards means nobody will care about your silly little pet project. By the way, are you writing your own OS?
loper-os.org/?p=46
The foundations of the computing systems we use are built of ossified crud, and this is a genuine crime against the human mind. How much effort (of highly ingenious people, at that) is wasted, simply because one cannot press a Halt switch and display/modify the source code of everything currently running (or otherwise present) on a machine? How many creative people – ones who might otherwise bring the future to life – are employed as what amounts to human compilers? Neither programmers nor users are able to purchase a modern computer which behaves sanely - at any price. We have allowed what could have once become the most unbridled creative endeavor known to man short of pure mathematics to become a largely janitorial trade; what could have been the greatest amplification of human intellect in all of history – comparable only to the advent of written language – is now confined to imitating and trivially improving on the major technological breakthroughs of the 19th century – the telegraph, telephone, phonograph, and typewriter.

kek.

lol. another blogger who bitches all day and has never built anything better

nosuchlabs.com/
Have you done anything comparable?

I don't bitch about the state of reality all day :^).

Bootlickers like yourself acquiescing readily to the ways of today are *the* reason we're stuck; Babbitt scum.

You have proven that some non sequitur arguments exist.
However you have not proven that 5 ways contain non sequitur.
Therefore 5 ways are not disproved.

FFS I pointed out the exact non sequitur that was being made right here

*intended to reference

You do understand that is is straw man argument, right?

it is*

And why is that? because people want Windows. And why do people want Windows? there are various factors but by far the biggest is there are programs which only run on Windows which people want to use.

They have marketing and hype because like Linux their products are also shit, they just aren't quite as shit as Linux.

Many Linux device drivers don't need to be GPL as quite a few of the relevant kernel functions aren't actually licensed under the GPL but instead the LGPL (and even for drivers which need to call GPL functions there are ways around it like what Nvidia does with its drivers). As someone who has actually written device drivers let me outine the workflows to driver development on Windows/Mac/Linux.
>realise there are essentially no standards for quality outside of it not causing a kernel panic and just half ass it because only 1% of your customers will be using Linux unless you are Nvidia, in which case your most important customers are using Linux, but you still half ass it anyway

That just makes it harder, people reverse engineer drivers and chips based on how the Windows and Mac versions work in order to develop open source Linux versions (for example the Nouveau drivers for Nvidia GPUs). But half the problem is Linux itself, it should be trivial to port a Windows driver to Linux but because of how retarded Linux is due to the "good enough" attitude as well as many developers being stuck in the 80s/90s its a painful experience.

And?

Marketing is what you do when your product doesn't sell itself.

If they actually cared about writing good software than they do politics then this wouldn't have happened. As soon as you forgo enshrining objective standards as part of your core ethos you open yourself up to subversion.

What straw man? He claims that whatever started this chain of events (assuming it has to be started by "something" a dubious prospect) is the same thing that is written down in the bible when nothing about his argument relates the two.

yet linux was ready for home usage by 1993 and Windows still won marketshare over Linux despite costing more and being utter shit

Linux in 1993 had no programs that people wanted, Windows when it launched had things like Word, Excel, and Doom95 and Microsoft dedicated significant resources to porting applications from 16bit DOS to the 32bit Windows95. Contrast this to Linux which had comparatively few no "killer apps".

It still doesn't and that's why desktop usage is non-existent.

Hum...

Nothing to do with Windows being preinstalled on home computers or the only way to acquire Linux being either a 1-month download in a time when

Back then you might've found Linux source in a book and type it all out yourself.

And despite your bitching, my experience with Linux drivers for everything except Nvidia hardware is great. Hardware is more likely to "just werk" than on Windows, let alone macOS, and drivers don't come with six million bloatware utilities.
I'll take "good enough" over your "'professional' but somehow even worse" anyday, thank you very much.

Yeah. There are drastically more drivers in the Linux mainline than that of NT. OEM's obviously write their own drivers for NT since that's the de facto standard, but those drivers are more likely to be poorly-written and forgotten come next year unless it's a flagship product. The fact that this is especially true for XNU is especially perplexing considering Apple has to alot significantly less resources to maintain their limited scope of software. My Mac Mini slowly losing firmware support as time passed despite the hardware working perfectly is actually what made me jump aboard the GNU train all the way to Torvalds Land, and I never looked back.

Are you a nigger or just a retard?

You have just described the most secure way to transfer code. You win ten internets

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"When doing things the right way takes 2 years, and doing things the wrong way takes 2 minutes, it's going to get done the wrong way." ~ Curtis Yarvin

The very same reason why we aren't traveling through space yet (and maybe we never will) and why there's still so many fucked up things in the world that could actually be easily resolved and that is the simple fact that the overwhelming majority of people are fucking stupid.

Technically, Windows was free if you pirated it (if building your own system from parts) or was bundled with prebuilt systems in such a way that you couldn't avoid paying for it. Very seldom did people go out and buy a Windows CD, like they would with other software.

LinuxDoom (ported by Dave Taylor) was available in 1994 though. There was an X binary, and also one for svgalib that could run fullscreen.

Its history. That's all.

UNIX was developed by Bell Labs
Bell Labs was a telecoms company
The early internet used Bell Labs' legal-monopoly backbone
Early web servers chose UNIX because they knew it would grant them superior support
When Linux became a thing, all the previous-UNIX guys switched over because Linux was free (as in beer in this case)

Microsoft BASIC was designed for the everyman with an emphasis on games
IBM was marketing to businesses
Windows was basically Microsofts culmination of experience with IBM and BASIC computers

Windows went on to running on everything else.
One is not inherently better or worse than the other. Whoever thinks either way is a LARPing faggot. Its. Just. History/.

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:^)

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People don't want they are imposed. If it was GNU/linux that was imposed from the beginning without any possibility on the market to have a windows OS then MS would be in the same position that GNU/linux is today.
The average joe which is 70% of all computer users need only these:
-Text editor/word processing.
-PDF reader
-Web browser
-Audio and Video player
-Image reader
-Printing
-Emails (client/browser)
In the 30% there's 10% which aren't specialized but needs these supplementary tools.
-Calculator
-Spreadsheets
-Agenda
-Text Chat system (client/browser)
-Webcam chat
-Image editor
Then there's 10% which are gamers
-Compatible OS for games
-Video capture
The remaining 10% are the specialized users who needs specific tools for their work for example medical cabinets, engineers, musicians etc...
This is the most inane comment that I have ever seen in a while. You don't make any sense.
man gcc
gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/
man perf
brendangregg.com/perf.html
The biggest challenge in gnu/linux is not not write tools for it, it's to learn/explore about those who are already there.
What is irc.
What are mailing lists
What are the trillion books in existence about the linux kernel, maybe you should go read about LFS.
And that's a good thing ?
And that's a good thing ?
Windows does sell itself thanks to it's monopoly and still Microsoft is making advertisement for it.
How to counter propaganda.png
It's foolish to think in such way, quality isn't enough. Despite that the GNU/linux tools are vastly superior to MS windows it's not used by the commoner.
Despite that MS windows is not only shit but spy software it's still used by most commoner.
What a fallacious argument, MS google or other would have attacked the FSF or similar organization because the FSF doesn't compromise.
Bullshit you only open yourself to subversion when you accept other objectives than the ones initially made.

No wonder he killed himself if "cat-v" were his only friends.

Speech: -Inf, Holy Shit

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Zinnia "Zyklon Replacement Therapy" Jones