Why aren't you using BSD?

Why aren't you using BSD?

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=FzJJbNRErVQ
openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#rc
eradman.com/posts/openbsd-workstation.html
man.openbsd.org/boot.conf
openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/Re-HP-Compaq-6005-hanging-on-boot-td59314.html
tedunangst.com/flak/post/ZFS-on-OpenBSD
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Because it doesn't support systemd.

Too lazy to backup my files
And make a clean install
Also Is pacbsd good or is it just another meme distro?

pacbsd is very meme

I figured this was some bullshit thread so I went over to /g/ and lo and behold, you made this exact thread there too. Consider suicide, OP.

OpenBSD is a meme
SSD TRIM is vital to supporting SSDs, as without it, they degrade quickly due to unnecessary reads and writes. Sadly, OpenBSD has decided not to support this.
OpenBSD also does not offer a modern filesystem option. You simply get the very old BSD "Fast File System" or FFS.
Why is this important? Because when most people think of a secure system, they think of being resistant to evil hackers breaking into it. But that's only one part of security. InfoSec can be generally split up into three components: Confidentiality, Integrity, and Availability.
In this triad, availability seems to be the one that's lacking here. Who cares how hack-resistant your system is if the data you're protecting is corrupted?
That's not even getting into the volume management stuff that's missing, and the snapshots, and the everything.
"b-b-but MUH BACKUPS!!"
What are you even saying? That bitrot all of a sudden doesn't exist anymore? That backups are the one and only thing you should do and should not be supplemented by a more stable filesystem?
You do realize that if the filesystem is not secure and does not protect against bitrot and corruption, your precious backups are going to be fucked, because you'll be backing up corrupted data. Who even knows how far you'll have to roll back in order to get to a clean state?
"ZFS is one big thing! Very not-Unix! Just combine tools, bro"
OpenBSD doesn't have logical volume management either. Even if it did, FFS doesn't have the checksumming, bitrot protection, etc. Even if it did, OpenBSD softraid doesn't support as many RAID levels as other operating systems' solutions. It's just a worse deal all around.
"Only two remote holes in the default install!!!!!!!"
Yay!
I hope you realize that this literally only applies to a base system install with absolutely no packages added. In other words, not exactly representative or meaningful towards... anything really.
OpenBSD also does not have NFSv4 support even 18 years after its standardization. This is an issue security-wise because version 4 is the only one to offer authentication with Kerberos plus encryption with the krb5p option.
A common retort to this argument is that the NFSv4 protocol is "bloated", and that's why OpenBSD doesn't support it. Going off this, the OpenBSD project seems to think that authentication and encryption are bloat. Take a moment to consider that. It's certainly a very strange stance indeed, for such a "security-focused" operating system.
Let's of course not forget that OpenBSD lacks a Mandatory Access Control solution such as SELinux, AppArmor, or TrustedBSD, which provide benefits that are relevant to companies, organizations, and governments looking to better secure their systems and classified data.
A few years ago, OpenBSD was actually in danger of shutting down because they couldn't keep the fucking lights on. How could anyone see this as a system they could rely on, when it could be in danger of ending at any time?
"but it's open source! Someone could just fork it"
Oh yeah because surely they'll be able to maintain the entire OS
Actually now that I think about it, that really depends on the person/organization that does it. And they might actually have some sense and be able to fix some of the issues listed here.
It's official. OpenBSD would be better off if it shut down and was restarted.
"B-But OpenBSD is written in strictly standards-compliant C! Clearly that's better than muh GNU virus!"
So you're not allowed to create extensions to the standard? You should only implement the standard and nothing more? Keep in mind that this is nothing like EEE, as the GNU C extensions are Free Software, with freely available source code, as opposed to proprietary shite. People should be allowed to innovate and improve things.
If you're gonna be anal about standards-compliance, then why let people make their own implementations anyway? Why not have the standards organizations make one C implementation and force everyone to use it?
OpenBSD's pf has inferior performance, as it only utilizes one core of one processor. GNU/Linux's netfilter firewall does not have this problem. Neither does pfsense.

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debian just werks so why should I? also X interface a shit. SHIIIIIT.

Nice copy pasta shill. Shame that it's all bullshit.

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Fully standard compliant C is shitty and insecure. Disabling strict aliasing optimizations allows you to violate the C standard without fear of getting raped by the optimizer. The GNU cleanup extension massively reduces the risk of stale pointers and leaks. And GNU's named struct initializer extension (maybe this is standard C now, or maybe only in C++?) avoids structs potentially getting the wrong values after changing fields.

Kinda stale, they're into things like

Wasn't this one of the causes that caused OpenBSD to be security focused? iirc Theo talked about 2 egregious bugs that made him go full tinfoil.

A 2001 CVE? No, he's been seen as a lolcow at least since the project began. Not sure what he was doing before that.

Giving it a try after FreeBSD, feels snappier on the startup, I like the configuration better. But the wifi isn't stable (it's also a known bug, related to noise detection and packet handling)

FreeBSD is CoCed. NetBSD is ancient. OpenBSD isn't as secure as the memesters on this board seem to believe unless you install only the base system and nothing else, and never run X, and it's slow anyway. DragonflyBSD doesn't support all of my hardware. The rest of the BSDs are derivatives and too niche to care about. That's why.

I am.

Security is not an on/off switch retard. OpenBSD is light years *safer* than windows/linux and it keeps getting better at it.
However OpenBSD is not based because of security alone, but because it is a SANE OS. No systemdick, no bloat, deprecated stuff are deleted, simple to install and use.

Wew. Anti-OpenBSD shills have lost their touch.

That's the last time anyone actually used it.

Have you actually read OpenBSD's code? It's garbage and a lot of it is left partially implemented. I posted some of their ntfs driver in a previous thread that is missing necessary locks (even left as comments in the code) and would likely let a user scribble over memory. But how many hatted technologists are going to waste their time on an OS no one uses?

The OpenBSD base system (without X) is reasonably secure, but almost nobody uses just the base system. Actually, when you get right down to it, almost nobody uses OpenBSD, period.

There is a ton of KMS code that was pulled in from freedesktop that remains unaudited to this day. That's not the only wart in the codebase.

The OpenBSD base system is reasonably secure against script kiddies. But every major intelligence agency on the planet has dozens of OpenBSD 0days. If your threat model is protecting your home router from script kiddies, OpenBSD is a solid choice.

Niggers, these are niggers. Glowniggers fear the puffer fish.

What if puffer fish IS the nigger?

That's a (+), not a (-).

BSD is homosexual security by obscurtiy. pass.

It sure looks like one.

Liar, there was no OpenBSD exploits in the cia vault releases. They had lots of stuff for Linux and FreeBSD though. There are more Intel hardware exploits than actual OpenBSD exploits. That really says a lot, because hardware has in theory much more thought and testing put into it at the design and immplementation phases.

Why would they go after OpenBSD when nothing runs on it. I doubt they had exploits developed for TempleOS, either.

I'm using OpenBSD right now, and I've used it to run web servers, mail servers, DNS, and firewalls. Yeah it doesn't run your games or other Windows stuff (because there's not WINE) but it's an all-around good Unix system, that won't get pozzed with stupid shit like systemdicks and CoCs.
Of course, most people don't actually want a Unix system at all, they want a Windows replacement, with lots of desktop shits galore. And that's exactly why those other OS get pozzed.

Pathetic.

So all you're capable of doing is make empty statements without any proofs. So long, blackpill shill.

You're nobody, though.

I don't know much about OpenBSD, but I do know that it's not a nigger-friendly OS. Are all the naysayers ITT just salty nignogs? Should I install OpenBSD on my laptop this weekend?

no GPLv3

It's worth a try if your hardware is supported. Try installing to a USB thing and booting from it. If you see stuff like "device unconfigured" in dmesg, that one device isn't working due to missing driver or missing firmware (but you can use the package manager to fix the later).

Way ahead of ya, I already installed it. So far so good, very comfy. Can I mix packages and ports? I remember that being an issue in FreeBSD. Also, how can I make acpi calls? I need to kill the nvidia gpu. I have a script for that in Linux, but it obviously doesn't work in OpenBSD.

If you install anything at all beyond the base system, you're opening yourself up to all kinds of security flaws. Only parts of the base system are audited, and OpenBSD has chosen not to implement a lot of modern mitigation techniques. They do have pledge, but most software has not been modified to take advantage of it.

You'd be better off using a Linux distro with good repos and firejail + AppArmor or SELinux.

(checked)
I'm just playing around, not actually trying to switch. I simply never tried obsd before and wanted to check it out.

Packages are just ports that were built for convenience's sake. All packages come from ports. But some ports don't get built because hardly anyone uses them, or because the license forbids binary distribution. Also, some ports have various FLAVOR options (see "man 7 ports" about this) and you might have to build the package yourself if you want a FLAVOR that's not provided in binary form. So mixing packages and ports is no problem, since they're really equivalent.
I don't know about acpi calls. I guess apci(4) is a good place to start, but I never tried to do anything special like shutdown the GPU (I pretty much just run apm to throttle the cpu). Anyway does it make a difference if the GPU is alive if you're just using the wsfb X server instead (for example)? Does it actually suck tons of power when it's not even being used?

What that guy said is wrong anyway. OpenBSD added the pledge/unveil framework and that allows a sort of MAC/jail type fine-tuned mitigations on the 3rd-party ports.
Interesting video about pledge:
youtube.com/watch?v=FzJJbNRErVQ

I made measurements.

OpenBSD does not support nvidia at all.
I would assume that the only time OpenBSD would be close to Linux in power consumption would be with Intel integrated as that appears to be what the devs dogfood the most on with laptops.
It will take a while for vega to get supported but hopefully that gets sped up now that Theo is shitty at Intel.
It would be pretty great to have a ryzen lappy on OpenBSD.

My OpenBSD laptop (Thinkpad T60) has Intel integrated graphics. So I can't comment on other GPUs. But all things being equal, power consumption is always much higher with OpenBSD. I don't exactly know why this is.

But I don't care. My laptop's battery will last maybe 10 minutes. And it's getting worse by the day. I always have the AC plugged in. Batteries are shit. The sooner they die the better. That way you can run on AC like a real man.

Only a pansy does anything "on the go." I prefer to do my coding and work in my cozy, dimly lit apartment.

I know, how is that relevant? I just want to kill it. Hell, I'd remove it if it weren't integrated into the mobo.

Doesn't vega require amdgpu? Wasn't that such a clustefuck that not even Linux wanted to merge it? Does this really have any chance of getting into OpenBSD?

Why use an ancient 14" (potentially 15") screen to program on when you can use a multi-head setup with a desktop?

You can use two monitors with the docking station.

...

BSD developers are cucks. GPL users are cucks.

apmd(8) isn't enabled by default.
openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#rc

This dude has some cool stuff:
eradman.com/posts/openbsd-workstation.html


It's relevant because they don't offer any guarantees on how nvidia behaves, maybe enable ampd(8) as shown in my link above?

I don't need multiple monitors. And I even if I wanted an extra monitor I would just use the VGA port. No need for docking station.

I always do apm -A. CPU throttling definitely helps, but power consumption is still higher than with Linux or Windows. I don't give a shit.

Because I'm used to GNU/Linux and I don't see why I should spend the time nor energy to change something that works perfectly

Why are you using it?

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Did he even mention games? All of his points are valid.

Mocking extremely popular use cases will surely help

is this board full of children

Nobody even mentioned cawadooty, moron. The hardware support/hardware acceleration is very poor, and it still uses FFS, ffs.

stop denying it faggot you just want to play gaymes on your laptop.
for laptops
what the fuck are you doing deep learning?

I hate laptops, I only work on desktops. If I were to build a Ryzen system, I doubt I could get it to work on OpenBSD. (I've also tried to install it on my server, and it wouldn't work.)

Well user I can tell you really know what you are doing.

The installer would probe my memory and then fail. (I know that my memory isn't bad.) The install is trivial when it works, I don't see how anyone could mess it up.

Well user sounds like you have bad RAM, and everything else is such shitty quality it does not bother checking. Why don't you go do some diagnostics.

Wat. There's no step in the OpenBSD installer that probes memory. I've installed the OS hundreds of times and never saw this. All the installer does is ask you questions related to configuration, sets up the disk partitions, and then installs the sets, creates device nodes, creates root and optionally a user account, generates ssh host key, and other such basic stuff.

One of the very first things the installer does is probe memory. It happens for only an instant though, try installing it on something and pay close attention. I know I don't have bad memory, that box uses SmartOS now.

On second thought, I guess you're probably talking about the ramdisk kernel that's failing to boot. That's not the intaller, which is really just a shell script that runs after the bsd.rd has booted. I've no idea why it would fail to boot, but you should test your memory with memtest86 or something, just in case. Linux will actually "run" on broken hardware whereas OpenBSD won't (by "run" I mean until things start to get corrupted in unpredictable ways). I've seen it happen on a shitty AMD K6/2 mobo I had long ago.
You could also try to remove one or other other of the ram chips and see if it boots.

The RAM is bad and the shit is just not giving a fuck.

Also the second-stage boot loader has a small shell where you can configure certain things, and memory is one of those. See here:
man.openbsd.org/boot.conf
You'll have to quickly hit a key when the prompt comes up, or else it'll boot the kernel right away.

Because it doesn't have a code of conduct.

The memory is fine, I have tested it. I found someone with the same issue as me:
openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/Re-HP-Compaq-6005-hanging-on-boot-td59314.html
Now, it *is* an HP Xeon server, so maybe next time I'll buy something else. But I find it strange that server hardware doesn't work, considering routers and servers is the classic OpenBSD use case.

How to setup a RAID6 with OpenBSD ? Which filesystem to use ?

I thought they only offer one filesystem? For laptops and routers, OpenBSD is good, but I wouldn't use it on a server or (home) desktop.

idk to be honest, i'd like to try it out with some drives laying around.
I'm supposed to use bioctl to achieve this but documentation isn't clear except for RAID1.
To be more specific, OpenBSD is installed on a small HDD right now. I want to know how to create a RAID6 array with 6 drives.

Why not specifically? It wouldn't be good for large load, high I/O, distributed sites but for your typical single box soho uses its fine and very stable.

He probably means because it doesn't have an advanced filesystem like ZFS or HAMMER2.
That's probably the main answer for most users on Zig Forums who aren't using it.
I think it's fine for laptops. Use FreeBSD with ZFS on your NAS for backing up stuff and storing large files and you're fine.

NVidia Card. Plus I still like to game on occasion. I used to use it on my thinkpad though. Really did like it.

ZFS exists for Linux and OpenBSD's softraid can handle a home NAS just fine

ZFS isn't as well integrated for Linux. I don't know why the OpenBSD guys don't just bite the bullet and port it. I've heard they think they don't have the man power, but it sounds like whining to me.

tedunangst.com/flak/post/ZFS-on-OpenBSD

Openbsd works fine on ryzen, why would you think that is a problem?

I guess that was a bit misleading--I know all x86 CPUs are remarkably backwards compatible. What I should have said is that the Ryzen system I plan to build will use a modern GPU, and OpenBSD does not support modern graphics cards. (I'm not a gamer, I just like using multiple high resolution displays.)

Nice SSL you got there

N(igger)Vidia

HP is infamous for making buggy BIOS and ACPI implementations. Avoid buying their products. They used to be good, but the quality went to shit after they got that woman CEO. One of their engineers most likely provided fixes for Windows and Linux, but they don't care about smaller OS projects. You can always try to install NetBSD or DragonflyBSD and see if you get lucky though.

So what you are saying is that Linux is so much better than OpenBSD that it can correctly run on hardware that is literally broken.

Laptops are way more power efficient though. I wish it were possible to build a desktop that idles at under 10 watts (including the screen).

Enjoy your memory corruption and other subtle bugs when Linux "works" on broken hardware.

sorry bud it's not 1996 anymore

Why use that when i can use 🍀 os
The kosher os

Not him, but I don't see this as something bad. It's like i'm using something that suit my needs but I'm nobody so my point doesn't stand? Most of the time I only lurk here but it always make me sight when somebody is trying to invalidate someone else opinion because he's "nobody" on an anonymous imageboard for outcasts.

Go back and read his post. The OS didn't boot. The OS got stuck because the BIOS was doing something broken and/or non-standard. The Linux kernel has tons of fixes for this kind of stupid hardware crap, just like it has tons of binary blobs for similar reasons. I always recommended OpenBSD to people as a good gauge to judge hardware by, even if they don't intend to run the OS. Same with code. If it can run in OpenBSD with all the mitigations, that means it's not totally crap that depends on undefined behavior or other dubious shit.


I didn't take that as an insult. I like being a nobody. A lot of sysadmins and programmers out there are nobodys who just get the job done and don't go looking for likes on facebook or whatever. If anything, this more humble attitude is the opposite of the SJW infestation that's killing projects these days.

Because my bloody wireless adapter is not supported.

You don't belong here.

Posting through an OpenBSD packet filter, right now. And surfing through and OpenBSD proxy in another browser window.

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No, I want to use the amdgpu drivers, with the Polaris cards. I don't buy Nvidia.

Because OpenBSD was incapable of dealing with hardware that Linux and everything else that matters could. Inferior OS.

Isn't amdgpu FOSS? If they haven't ported it yet, then maybe you can help?

You deserve the CoCk tbh.

assuming you're using intel can you test this with hyperthreading disabled in bios? since openbsd disables it and linux doesn't im curious if that would decrease some of the power consumption, of course the video card is another issue

try booting with sata set to ide in bios, this can be undone if you have an os already installed