Rust

lurk moar newfag

They somehow figured out how to make a syntax worse than C++. Just use Haskell.

yet they allowed dibblego to be part of the haskell community for years

I've seen the name but don't remember anything about him.
twitter.com/dibblego/status/1019177499853389824
seems like an interesting guy. he's too toxic now?

this

thats not how any of this works
first there have to be actually good implementations used in say few larger games
technically its interesting and actually has potential if utilized properly

Joke of the century.

What do you have against my boi Tony?

hello nodev.

God damnit

Ultra-pozzed devs that ban and block anyone not falling in line, which is how they can keep spouting nonsense claims such as

I like Rust. it wasn't too hard to learn, and I'm honestly a better programmer because of the habits it made me adopt.

I'm also really enjoying the zero-cost futures, as well.

That said, I bypass the CoC, and contribute to the project pseudonymously, so they can't link my shitposting to my work. People that get to see my resume get my dox, but the rest of the community sees another _why_the_lucky_stiff and doesn't realize I would gas them all if I had the chance. I consider this a win/win.

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...

You're right nothing can be faster than a segfault.

You know user just because they say zero-cost does not make it cheap. They literally copied the javascript concurrency model.

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the end of that is hard to watch

I'm learning it now. I'm not a big fan. For context I'm an engineer (civil, not software), and I use Python regularly (scrapers, data visualization, task automation), have no professional or academic background in software, and I have dabbled with C, Haskell, and JavaScript.

Syntactically Rust appears to be the mulatto offspring of JavaScript and C with most of its parents' warts. I know the argument "hurr, hurr, real devs don't care about syntax, and I'm a real dev who works at a help desk/ is in college." But there are already much better and more readable syntax paradigms in use by popular languages right now. I've never written one line of Ruby, but I can look at its source and have an immediate understanding of what's going on. Contrast that with curly braces hell where they have multiple meanings depending on context and semicolons because why should a compiler ever interpret a newline character in a way that is understandable to humans?

Obviously this was a "guys, we need to make it like JS to not scare the web devs" kind of decision, but that's a terrible reason. It's propagation of poor design decisions because we're used to them.

I would characterize the language rules as autistic and obnoxious. Keeping up with ownership and lifetimes is a pretty unusual Paradigm. I understand why it was done, now that I know more, but it still is a irksome way to do things. however, I can't think of a better way to handle problems like memory safety. The current Mantra of C coders which is to "just run valgrind," or "just gitgud, XD," is not in any way an actual solution.

There are a few places where rust does it right, though. The documentation is pretty good. The meta-programming tools are really excellent. At this time there is not really an excuse to not have a tool chain which automate processes like packaging libraries for distribution or having a convenient way to import new libraries, like crates. There are other languages that have this, but often it relies on some kind of third party platform. Rust did it right by making a stable, usable default to get everyone on the same page.

I am sticking with rust right now because I want the ability to do embedded software or tackle systems programming tasks if they come up. It would be nice to expand the skillset I've got outside of just scripting, and, frankly, I'm too late in my career to spend 10 years getting C experience to just *start* writing useful code. From where I stand, I do not see a better alternative to rust. I really wish that there were one. Crystal is dead in the water without a genuine threading ability. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Also, Nim is Okay, but ultimately it is a C transpiler. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that one. I don't see how you escape the really fundamental problems with writing C.

Show me a better embedded-capable language that doesn't require years/decades of practice and I'll jump the Rust ship.

The JS influence is pretty heavy and a I think a very bad thing.

I've been in mostly read-only mode since the end of February. My total posts since then on Zig Forums have been lees than 10. I didn't create this thread. You would know that I put way more effort into the OP if you weren't a retarded LARPer.
Also I'm Zig Forums, not Zig Forums.

Anyways since I'm already here I might as well answer any Rust related questions (I have >3 years Rust experience).

wew
Unironically C. The only place where choosing C makes any amount of sense.
Yep you are retarded.

Adults are talking here, junior. Go play outside.

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LARP? I can't tell if you're mindlessly parroting image board maymays because you're a bot or if you are actually too dumb to make original thoughts.

huh... really makes my thought noggins joggin.........

I feel like we've had this thread before...

the absolute state of modern programmers.

Quite the ringing endorsement.

They need their hand held. Your skills at manual memory allocation management will earn you more money, as your skillset becomes more rare.
If all the Visual Basic programmers learned Rust instead, we'd be in a better world. Can we try to push for that? They'd be so easy to teach how to love a less strict compiler and freeing a malloc or five if they never learned all the VB mistakes and laziness.

the inheritance model is really nice, and I try to bring it with me to any project I work on, because it makes memory management so much easier once internalized.

Lol no you will make less than an SF web developer.
Cobol and Fortran devs don't make shit on average.
inheritance is shit. composition all the way

Why would anyone listen to someone who talks and carries themselves like this?

I know, right?

It's not nice to make fun of retards tbh.

freeing memory for running programs is terrible idea, theres a myriad of reasons why everyone avoids it unless its some super optimized game engine thing

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C is garbage collected. Try allocating more memory than your machine has. Does it crash? No. C is garbage collected.

Memory is allocated in a lazy fashion. Allocate more memory than your machine has and then write 1 byte to each page and it will crash.

the function free is too hard :,(

that is literally the lowest paying career path in software development
that used to be one of the highest paying career paths last I checked
you can actually use both retard

Still better than you trivial c faggots.
Only if you are the 0.001% of contractor
Yeah you can shit and piss at the same time

You can tell the kernel not to overcommit tho. If you do that malloc will return 0 when you're out of memory.

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What I love about Rust is the core language’s notion of guaranteeing memory safety (akin to what you’d get from a garbage collector) without an actual garbage collector, and all the performance benefits that entails for any sort of real time application where random pauses and stutters are not okay.

I also like that there are no nullable pointers (sum types are used instead). Seriously, nullable pointers need to die already (except for limited contexts like “unsafe” blocks).

What I don’t like about Rust is a language that is perhaps too complicated in ways that are unnecessary (C++ is way more complicated, but for “legacy” reasons — Rust is a fresh start and has no such excuse), poorly designed “ergonomics” around their borrow checker stuff, vague and unhelpful error messages, and last but not least: that awful SJW CoC.

It’s been getting better in some ways, but worse in others — particularly, nasty compiler bugs that will segfault your completely correctly written program, bugs where the borrow checker fails, etc. And to top it off, their management seems kind of lackadaisicle/dispassionate about even prioritizing fixes for these.

They’re more interested in their future-looking rewrite and research projects than actually fixing bugs. And of course, if you tell them that’s a really stupid way to manage a programming language, they’ll ban you for intolerance and “toxic meritocracy” via their CoC.

Please tell me that's not an actual quote.

If you do any serious embedded work (e.g. on a resource-constrained microcontroller), you'll need to interact directly with hardware peripherals (intrinsically and unavoidably unsafe) and you wont call malloc very often, if at all (so memory leaks wont be your biggest problem). So what's the point of using rust?

C. Too hard for you? Or do you think rust would somehow save you from having to be careful about resource management on a resource-constrained system? Are you the thing in that video: ?

No??? Pointers are the only types where null actually makes sense.

There are a few bugs in the borrow checker but they have been there for years. There really aren't that many new borrow checker bugs.
Also they are working on it. They are completely rewriting the borrow checker. (For some reason they have decided to not fix the bugs in the old version while working on the rewrite.) The current borrow checker operates on the AST, the rewrite will operate on the MIR (mid-level intermediate representation). Apparently it is way easier to do borrow checking on the MIR than the AST. Also the rewrite will come with some cool new features like upgradeable borrows, non-linear lifetimes and better error messages. The rewrite is feature complete since quite a while. You can use it on the nightly compiler. I think it will hit stable in version 1.31. So in about 12 weeks.
smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2018/04/27/an-alias-based-formulation-of-the-borrow-checker/
smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2018/06/15/mir-based-borrow-check-nll-status-update/

The Rust devs are actually pretty good about taking criticism as long as you don't use mean words.

upboated and sage negated

hurr

no macros, weakly typed, outdated 70s language. no thanks

If you've ever written non-trivial program in rust, you'd know that it doesn't make it any easier than c to write proper programs. It just tries to make the compiler fail whenever you've done something against the rules. For a normal development model, this is a non-starter: you first hack together a barely working version of your program, analyse what works, then rewrite the crappy parts. Repeat until the code is of sufficient quality for your means (engineers for nuclear shutdown systems spend 90% of their time analysing, web devs stop after the first step). This is why we see so many "rewrite it in rust" projects: rust is a terrible tool for prototyping, but a great tool for rewriting working code with.

You think before you write code. Only LARPers shit out shit code and then have to rewrite it because it it shit.

I'd like to see you tackle a project of any real size, like a 3D game, without re-writing anything as you go. You sound more like a LARPer than he does.

Is rust the perfect waterfall programming language?

You fucking rust spammers are the worst. GTFO.
Faggots not welcome here.

stfu LARPer

nice strawman

the whole of Zig Forums is a fucking shitshow. sage negated btw

Can the Rustfags die already? We are never going to use pozsoy in a million years. Sooner we will remove shared library of Rust and gimp the execution of any Rust code.

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Oh no! A bunch of LARPers won't use Rust. Rust is finished!

(checked)

That's the opposite of what i would expect from a language that goes on about how memory safe it is.

What the fuck is that thing?

your mum

Sperging out will not make me use Rust. Rather it will push it away more than it already is.

What makes you think I care about you not using Rust?
LMAO you are just a retarded LARPer.

What? C has macros.

Really really bad hacked in preprocessor ones: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygienic_macro