Linux Alternative General

LINUX ALTERNATIVE GENERAL
lets try to get this shit OS thread spam under control.
PICK ONE
Illumos
Features include "LX Branded Zones" to run linux code with near zero overhead in a secure isolated container. Complete ZFS support. Dtrace which is industry standard if you're into that type of thing.
wiki.illumos.org/display/illumos/Distributions
OpenBSD
Features include "ports" which has most of the neccessary linux applications you'd use. Simple bullet proof applications. Amazing man pages. Batteries included OS, just install and go.
openbsd.org/

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Other urls found in this thread:

zeus.theos.com/deraadt/coremail
youtube.com/watch?v=lnesNFulpPE
trueos.org
haiku-os.org/blog/waddlesplash/2018-08-19_r1beta1_release_plans_-_at_last/
sel4.systems/Info/Docs/GD-NICTA-whitepaper.pdf
citizencodeofconduct.org/
stanleylieber.com/
joyent.com/blog/unikernels-are-unfit-for-production
jtimberman.housepub.org/blog/2013/06/23/getting-started-with-zones-on-omnios/
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Security_Handbook/Kernel_security
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

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whats going on in this image?

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It's a general thread so it's okay, more for containment than anything.
you okay user?

I think it's photoshopped.

What happens when Theo dies?

The whole dev team rivals Theo's level of autism, anyone else can't take the environment. The project is in safe hands for the foreseeable future.

Also most of the users are devs and there is a very strong "if you have a problem fix it" mentality.

Theo also left a blueprint for dealing with the worst case scenario: just fork the project and bring the best hackers along with you. It was almost exactly a "code of conduct" situation complete with subtexts about politics and mainstream appeal that led him to fork NetBSD long ago.
zeus.theos.com/deraadt/coremail

Honestly the answer is just be a hacker. Love hacking more than anything else having to do with tech, and your ass will follow.

Pretty much this. The real power situation of OpenBSD that's hardly talked about ouside of OpenBSD circles, is that the OS is by and for the dev team. Users can use it if it suits them, but users have no say whatsoever, and if they don't like it they can go take a hike. That sounds pretty harsh, and they're not usually dismissive on purpose, but it gives you the idea of how the project actually runs. SJW and other subversive elements have simply no wiggle room or breathing space, or any kind of recourse whatsoever. Because even the pbeb-tier users don't like that shit, and have in the past tended to be even more aggressive towards any bullshit.

I've installed openbsd on an old netbook to play with it. Loving it so far. The key really is RTFM. Searching for help online is usually fruitless, but the advice in the welcome message in your system mailbox and the man page for afterboot really seems to be all you need. From that you have the basics and how to use the man pages and other built in resources to get what ever info you need. I feel like it's 1999 and I'm installing Slackware for the first time. Except back then I used man pages and in-system resources because search engines were shit and i was still on dial up, now it's because 99% of the (few) online resources are just snipits or full copies of the man pages and/or out of date. Advice to other Linux users looking to migrate: assume nothing, and forget everything you think you know. You might think "i don't need to look at the man page for X, i know how X works.", but you might not. openBSD does things it's own way, and even if it is the same, the manpages are much more complete than in most linux distros, so they might give you a better understanding of the software even if you think you already know everything about it. If not, you've wasted all of 2 minutes. Worth the risk imo.

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why not netbsd?

Haiku.

it just works!

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Did you get XFCE "Out of the box"?

For me the biggest problem is the poor hardware support in general with OpenBSD. For example, it doesn't support hardware video decoding on AMD hardware. That's kind of a big thing missing right in there.

I've gotten tired of Linux and it's mainstream appeal that only drew in shit (SystemDicks etc.) for a while and I think it's a good time to switch to something that isn't ruined by Normies.

Anyone can chime in how well virtualization works and if hardware pass-through is possible? That would solve a lot of headaches in my transitional period.

I'll try NetBSD if OpenBSD doesn't work out for some reason. I gravitated to OpenBSD first because of their reputation for secuirty and a level of internal autism that dwarfs my own. Also, it might sound dumb, but I've started to see the lack of features as a feature itself. It forces me to solve my own problems rather than nigger-rig something out of someone else's solution, also it keeps the normies away.

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The native vmd/vmm virtualisation solution doesn't work for linux if I understand correctly. You could obviously run linux with kvm and openbsd on top of that but that's sort of gross. I'd suggest you look into the mentioned "LX branded zones" while I'm not 100% certain I believe this would be native performance, even better than kvm. Worst case illumos also has kvm meaning you could get something like 95% performance running linux or windows even.
youtube.com/watch?v=lnesNFulpPE

netbsd is also very nice yes. What advantages do you perseive it has haveing over OpenBSD though? From memory the only thing I can think of are filesystems and hardware support, and it seems that everything else is openbsd's favor. I ran it on a laptop for a very short time period.

no but it's exceedingly easy to install, just a dead simple one liner.

From what I recall my options were Devuan/Hurd, Haiku, DragonflyBSD, MidnightBSD or OpenBSD. I hadn't heard of IllumOS. I considered HelenOS and SculptOS to be too unfinished. Now all I want to do is base my choice entirely upon muh gaymes and on how many FPS I can get on AMD hardware. But the benchmarks either don't exist or aren't clear which one is superior. All I wanted was 60FPS GOTY Mountain Dew and now I'm having to migrate again.

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...

I don't know what this is, but assuming it's a game that runs on linux or windows and you want to run on neither your options are: FreeBSD or modern derivative other than Dragonfly this includes MidnightBSD as mentioned and also TrueOS, and Illumos. I personally really didn't like my experiences with FreeBSD and derivatives; if you want to get to playing your game as fast as possible TrueOS would probably be the way to do it: trueos.org
FreeBSD also has shit bloated code and a CoC though so there isn't really a point if that's what you're trying to avoid, TrueOS is just freebsd but easier to install, and Midnight sort of doesn't have a CoC but they stay pretty close to FreeBSD code wise.
Illumos would be my suggestion, but it's not neccessarily easy to get going.

Let the thread spam happen, faggot, this is an important matter.

everyone better fucking use 9front right fucking now or I swear to god I'm going to fucking scream.

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You do realize they have the same fucking CoC.

I really want to try 9front, but the only spare machine I have atm is a RPi3, and afaik you have to cross compile from an x86-64 install. Help me Lain.

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reload the coc page you fool.

Most 9front users run it in a virtual machine.

Yes, you reload it 3 times and the real CoC pops up.

the boat….
White Knight OS

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which is exactly why we should way the pros and cons of each option together rather than having half a dozen threads to shill for OS that no one could pragmatically use as a daily driver. I mean they're talking about Haiku which no one uses in production and literally went into its first beta release yesterday after having been in alpha for 16 fucking years, with in comparison no software. No one is going to actually use that shit.
haiku-os.org/blog/waddlesplash/2018-08-19_r1beta1_release_plans_-_at_last/

Just for me personally and not for Zig Forums in general, I'd love to run one of the plan9 continuations, is there one that's actually usable though? I don't need much just mupdf, w3m, and mpv but I don't think these have been ported.

That sounds very appealing compared to the absolute poz in linux.

Nothing wrong with respecting women within a patriarchal society. It's when you denigrate men and allow women to run roughshod doing whatever they want that you get the problems we are seeing in current year AD. Of course, we all know the 9cucks are a bunch of pseudo-liberal hipsters so you are ultimately correct.

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Can we settle netbsd vs openbsd for a desktop OS already?

Besides maybe OpenBSD, everything feels like a half meaasure. illumos based distros look the most appealing currently, but we still need a working microkernel that runs on widely available and fully libre consumer RISCV processors. x86 is a steaming pile of kike engineered super AIDS, and no amount of exotic distro hopping or virtualization will change that.

All my options have an extra pair of eyes examining or picking and choosing which code to use from the otherwise shitshow OSes. For Devuan/Hurd it's:
Hurd Microkernel > Linux-libre > Linux
For any BSD it's:
(x)BSD > FreeBSD

It's obviously an advantageous system for anyone who's not smart enough to audit these things themselves.

I think I should just try every one of them myself and see which one I like, starting with the ones I'm likely to enjoy most (so that it's less of a waste of time). I hopped through about a dozen Linux distros before I settled on Devuan, so having less that a dozen to consider now is sort of like a reprieve for me.

If beta Haiku got me more FPS running whatever it's equivalent of PlayOnLinux is then I'd adopt it immediately

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WTF I HATE 9FRONT NOW!

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*less than a dozen

netbsd is a runs on anything meme with no UI and you still have to ask which one is better for a desktop?

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microkernels are absolute shit for debugability. Don't expect good software without debugability.

told you your options, the only things with a compatibility layer for linux and windows are FreeBSD and its derivatives or Illumos. "Playonlinux" is a compatibility layer there is no Haiku equivalent. If you "just want FPS" why do you even need to switch platforms just run windows or linux, and if you want something else and FPS just listen to

I'd say if your hardware isn't supported by openbsd or you're interested in a storage server use netbsd and otherwise openbsd. none of the netbsd folks responded to my initial challenge so that's what I'm going with.

They have a real one you idiot and its the shit one.

Do Dragonfly or Open or Net count as derivatives?

sorry no, I ment recent forks other than dragonfly.

proofs

Good to know, thanks user.

All these presented except FreeBSD seem like they could fall into the CoCtrap any day for no particular reasons too. (remember, nobody would've thought this shit would happen to Linux just a week ago) Just FreeBSD looks like it's sufficiently shielded from that by pure ideology/autism. It also looks straight out of the 90s so normies/corps won't thread there. Still sucks about the bad hardware support but ah well, thats how it was when I started with Linux ~16 years ago too. I survived.

*OpenBSD. Whoops!

Not true. You just have to install it. Same with the other BSDs

This meme dies here in this thread. 9cucks already kicked a contributor for saying mean things about trannies. Then they let him back in after he grovelled. It's a pozzed project under a slimy veneer of hipster snark, not to mention it has zero real world use anyways. It's fucking worthless.

ffs do you mean other than dragonfly which DOES have a compatibility layer or other than dragonfly which does NOT?

Is my choice essentially this:
MidnightBSD
DragonflyBSD
IllumOS
Devuan/Hurd
In that order?

I know you said to ignore microkernels but I already have an install of Devuan that I can experiment on as kind of the last thing to play around with.

9front is the one most "up-to-date", but it's still not desktop ready, really.
Built-in document reader page is okay and only occasionally shits its pants on some files.
Built-in browser mothra works, as long as you don't mind no javascript and bare-bones formatting
There are no video players available so far.

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE RETARDED
sel4.systems/Info/Docs/GD-NICTA-whitepaper.pdf

Someone believes this, unironically

Does not.

For Gaming - from least to most complex
TrueOS (de facto CoC from FBSD)
GhostBSD (de facto CoC from FBSD)
MidnightBSD (de facto CoC from FBSD but less so than the others)
Illumos (DilOS OmniOS or SmartOS)
For Quality - requirement, must be usable as a daily desktop in my subjective order
OpenBSD
NetBSD
Illumos
Hurd
Unusable but neat
Plan9
Haiku
etc.

heh

that pdf isn't about debugability. Did you mean to link something else?

that's too bad, I think that's sort of neccessary for me.

I was wrong hurd actually does have a compat layer so that might be a really good choice for you. It's likely simpler to get where you want to be than these other options.

wait it probably doesn't have gpu drivers though. Last I tried it they didn't even have USB support, but that was a few years ago.

They didn't respond because bsd users don't seem to have the advocacy mentality that a lot of linux users have. There is probably a few nbsd ports with 2 total users and they are fine with that.
Open,Net, and Dragonfly are 3 different projects with 3 different goals. They are all small enough to download and testdrive. Try each one and go with what fits you best.
FreeBSD is pure poz though

It's a shame too, because some of their ideas like capsicum and jails are quite cool. Then again, I read that capsicum could be coming to dragonfly

just to be clear I'm a openbsd user myself, and I've used netbsd for awhile. I've never given dragonfly a shot really and I know very little about it, I haven't heard anything bad though. I think I agree with you in general it's good to try everything that fits your use case until you find something you're happy with. Just try to narrow down to your use case or you're going to waste a lot of time.

...

Lack of a compatibility layer would ruin gaymen on dragonflyBSD

If I add up every choice it looks like this:
BSD-based kernel:
MidnightBSD
NetBSD
OpenBSD

Illumos-based kernel:
DilOS
OmniOS
SmartOS

GNU Mach-based kernel:
Devuan/Hurd
(also any other distro that supports Hurd)

I've got a whopping total of 7 choices to process compared to the thousands that were available with Linux. There are so few here that you could try out every one of them and still have the time to contact every lead maintainer and ask their opinions on Linux adoption of the CoC.

It'll be for the best if somebody does. I want to know if any of these could end up being compromised. I doubt it with the BSDs, but does anyone actually know the Illumos maintainers? GNU Mach has two people who do most of the work and I think they're ok, but it might just be that I simply couldn't find their oh-so-creative twitter handle that complains endlessly about a patriarchy.

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When it comes to microkernel options, what about Minix3? I mean we're already considering Hurd.

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We're all already using minix though ;^)

I mean actively (^;

I'm on AMD tho

I'll check out OpenIndiana.

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It supports the MateBook Pro X.
The 2017 model at least.

Except for a longtime dev getting banned for expressing wrongthink about trans* persyns. But it's okay, he clarified that he has many trans* friends and is totally down with trans* folks and their struggle, and so he was welcomed back into the fold. The leader of the 9front project, a Portland-area artist who adopted the pseudonym (((Stanley Lieber))) even stuck up for him! Based AND redpilled, amirite?

stanleylieber.com/

Here's TrueOS Rules of Conduct:

Heres a funny idea, how about you just not update?
Most distros have their own version of the kernel that's been sanctioned as being stable anyway so it's not like it'll be that hard.
Only ones really effected is rolling release distros, and even then.
Good rolling release distros would have an option to select what kernel version you want.

Now, if your a developer, this would matter quite a bit because you might be out of a job heh not like most of the devs are being paid anyway
So if you really want to carry on adding some form of patches to linux, you could contribute to linux-libre.
Or the half a dozen other kernels out there i recommend hurd that needs it bad
Theres no reason to jump off of using linux though, just keep it safe and not update the kernel.

Did this actually happen? I want some links because the best I could see was Aiju banning someone for Zig Forums spamming and then getting shat on for it.
I would really like to know the truth.

Eh I think that's the same as admitting the moral premises of the ES JAY DABAYUUs, the real remedy would be a statement against CoCs.

That's not what I was implying at all. I was saying that they basically had CoC because they are just freebsd with additional packaged software to make it easier to install, and freebsd has a CoC, it's also shit.

I was talking about the "kernel" (the processes running in userland to take over kernel tasks), not the kernel it's self, but I was just being stupid. I read this article a long time ago and I guess my brain just assumed that if unikernels are undebugable than microkernels are undebugable but a bit less so. This is completely wrong, microkernels are if anything more debugable because you can track down individual aspects of the kernel which aren't complieing in userland much easier than you can in kernel space. sorry for being a idiot.
joyent.com/blog/unikernels-are-unfit-for-production

I wouldn't be surprised if all you needed for this functionality more or less was a set of shell scripts and shell aliases which each spin up a zone and then run the program inside. There is no real performance hit of spinning up a zone so you might aswell just do it on a per application basis.
jtimberman.housepub.org/blog/2013/06/23/getting-started-with-zones-on-omnios/
When Cantrill wrote KVM for illumos he was quotes as "seeing into the sausage factory" if you can avoid KVM and just use Zones that's a much better way to be. That being said KVM is actually implemented by illumos, so rather than it being hardware

Your info is slightly out of date, Joyent is now a Samsung subsidiary.

Cantrill is an amazing programmer but when the Damore memo came out he called it pseudoscience and linked to some tranny bitching about it for 15,000 words.

I expect SmartOS would cave almost instantly.

Are you sure that GhostBSD and MidnightBSD (both FreeBSD forks) are pozzed from the get-go? Before FreeBSD gets a CoCk for the first time three years ago, MidnightBSD was introduced to the world, but not GhostBSD.

I know they were aquired, honestly yah.
as in my other spoiler I can about quality code more than CoC
It's still the only option for a OS which can play games and doesn't have a CoC (and more importantly has quality code) atm. If that's not your priority than you should certainly look into other platform like OBSD (which is what I run) or NetBSD.

Because you will become part of a botnet in less than a year if you don't.
Seriously, take a look at how fast CVEs pop up nowadays and you''ll understand why Microsoft decided to piss off normies with the forced updates.

GhostBSD just follows the latest release they can manage. So atm they're on 11.1 which came out in November of 2017.
TrueOS is in a even worse boat because they just run on -current.
So it seems it is indeed basically from 2013, which means it's only shit software and not pozzed.

...

Updates can introduce unknown vulnerabilities, sure, but you can check and see they fix known ones.
Everyone, from the CIA to the latest script kiddie that never opened visual studio, can exploit known vulnerabilities, and that is why fixing them is so important.
That's updating too.

You'll rarely have to worry though, vulnerabilites are always hyped up to death these days, even when their small ones that don't mean shit.

You clearly don't understand what a update a is if you think this. Adding features makes software less secure, but you don't have to have all the features of the linux kernel, you can compile a minimal subset and many do. There are also security features which are added such as selinux. Most importantly updates fix bugs and security holes in existing code if you don't update you expose yourself to script kiddies, and anyone equivalent or greater in capabilities. What you want is as few non-security features as possible (some even say features in general) and as secure (up to date) remainder as possible.
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Security_Handbook/Kernel_security

Explain to me how that disproves me in any way.

nice meme

...

I run openbsd. I'm not defending the CoC I'm saying your solution is retarded. Your solution rather than switching your OS to a something better is to use the same software riddled with bugs and exploits because of a fear that code quality is going to get worse. If you care that much about code quality switch to something better you autist, don't just sit on your ass and irrationally think you're better off because you've got half a million CVEs exploits possible on your machine but atleast the devs who made it were somewhat competent.

If linux requires updates that often than it only means it was shit to begin with.
Vuls don't just suddenly apear and make things less secure.
If suddenly one is found it just means it was shit the whole time and faggots never knew about it.
Your not more secure just because you update because updates also introduce the same possibilites for vuls

The solution is clear, disable everything that is not needed, hang back on a long term kernel.
And don't fucking update past kernel 4.18
Fuck is so hard to understand about this?
Most fags are still running kernel 4.9 for fuck sake, some even lower!
Rolling fags don't understand that shit doesn't need to be latest to be secure.
Just as pointed out before aswell, most vulnerabilites once found are normally hyped to shit and a patch is applied quickly, ALL YOU NEED IN THAT CASE IS THE PATCH, NOTHING ELSE!
You don't even need to learn code to understand this shit, just look at the commit list, it'll the most obviously labeled one.
Back porting patches is even more secure than updating the kernel, cause you don't get the new vuls being made by sjws who can't code for shit.

SO WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO LINUX!? I HEARD THE SJWs TOOK IT OVER AND CRASHED THE FUCKING CODE!!