Linux Alternative General #2

Most archs have a lot more. See here:
openbsd.org/63.html

Does HAMMER2 have a RAID6 analog like RAID-Z2 for ZFS?
Is it as stable as ZFS? Would you trust all of your data residing on it?

Hey all. Not sure how many of you are aware of this, but Haiku has just entered into Beta. I'm about to try it out for the first time.

haiku-os.org/
haiku-os.org/get-haiku/release-notes/
haiku-os.org/get-haiku/

Besides not having a CoC, what makes Haiku an attractive OS to use as a daily driver?
I'm looking for technical reasons, including security.
Also, is there any reason to believe they won't get a CoC in the future?
For example, OpenBSD has Theo's mailing list behavior as evidence against any such future happening for that OS.

IMO it's a bad idea to use pkgsrc as your primary method on OpenBSD, since then you won't get the benefit from pledge & unveil, since those are system calls only present in OpenBSD (they patch each port/package themselves). More info on this here:
youtube.com/watch?v=FzJJbNRErVQ
man.openbsd.org/pledge.2

Posting this again because I love DragonflyBSD:
DragonflyBSD needs more love. They already match Linux's network throughput, but with lower and more consistent latency. And that's despite their comparatively limited developer time. The difference is in the fundamental design (LWKT, amiga ports-like messaging, tokens, system servers as lockfree/lockless processes), and the fact that they put some thought into it, rather than the Linux as-they-went approach, or FreeBSD's lets just copy Linux's mistakes. HAMMER2's main goal is to be an actual clustered (as in, not just local but network) filesystem, complete with multi-mastering and quorum. This is to facilitate having a cluster of computers act as if it was a single one, with processes being able to migrate seamlessly, complete with open sockets/files. It has the ZFS feature-set without the flexibility issues or the overhead. Sensible design, good performance. Nothing like the clusterfuck btrfs is. I do respect Dragonfly's matt, and did already in Amiga times (dice C).
archive.is/mU6uq

Stop spamming and answer my goddamn question!

I swear, there is non-stop shilling for various OSs here and whenever anybody asks a question about them, nothing but crickets.

Mods please delete this thread and ban the OP. Linux is stronger than ever before.

It caught my interest largely because of its integrated GUI and purportedly good performance, especially in multi-threaded applications, which I am going to find out about in my testing. I don't know much about security, but I noticed that the release notes state "ASLR, DEP, & SMAP implemented and enabled by default," along with some other more minor security-related things.

As far as the CoC concerns go, I did find this in the "Contributing" section of their Readme:

So, I am inclined to believe that they support meritocracy, which the CoC fellas seem to reject outright.

Thanks for answering. Do you know if they have any plans to eventually go 64-bit, or is 32-bit only a fundamental aspect to it for technical or ideological reasons?

ReactOS has the most promise because most normalfaggots still want their Windows application and driver support and ReactOS promises both these things.

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I'd help ya m8, but I've only got experience with CP/M and OpenBSD.

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Actually, they do have 64-bit images available on the download page. My understanding is that the 32-bit images are largely for legacy support with old BeOS applications, while 64-bit loses some of that compatibility but is obviously more modern/performant. I'm using the 64-bit release for my testing.

Performance wise, which *BSD is the best?
Gayming wise, which *BSD is the best?

It's both Russian and has a CoC. Stay away.

Oh, I thought it was 32-bit only based on some post on Zig Forums a week or two ago. Concerning that someone would post incorrect info on here.

Both FreeBSD, but that has a CoC.
I'd say MidnightBSD because its based off of FreeBSD, but doesn't have its CoC.

How's that a bad thing all of a sudden?

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Eastern ZOG. Will implement some form of KGB botnet.

It seems like most people don't have much experience with it yet, myself included of course. I'd advise to check out the release notes for yourself if it piques your interest. You can try it as a live CD, or apparently it has support for lots of virtualization platforms if you want to do it that way.

Go link the CoC, faggot. Not all CoCs are the same. If you wish to make your case, perhaps a CoC comparison is in order?

Betcha he plays DotA/whatever that has Russians on it.

As for BSDs, we need something like Tails based on BSD, I don't even get why that isn't the thing yet, I thought OpenBSD is more secure than GNU/Linux

also isn't there a non-CoCked version of linax? a.k.a. Linux-libre?
it's uncucked both in code (no proprietary shit) and in... law? (no cock and other bullshit)

Who else would you need to talk to?

Remember when Zig Forums was good before their own ideology began eating itself into incoherent shit like this post?

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No.

It's true though, the Soviet Union had many Jews and people of Jewish descent in the revolution and their leadership. Of course, half the population and their leaders ended up in the gulag or dissappeared at some point. They hated everyone it seems.

Umm sweetie just because 80% of soviet ideologues were jewish doesn't mean it was a majority jewish movement.

You do realize the Soviet Union no longer exists right?

Tails is just preconfigured stuff in one place for you. I think it'd be possible to build your own BSD equivalent

Linux-libre copypastes a lot of the code from CoC'd linux because most of the development happens on the main branch

To be useful even as server software you need network tools. Shrine might offer it, but it'd also make a shitty desktop OS

Having a monolithic kernel engineered to do things the way windows does is going to make it messy and difficult to audit. Additionally, nothing about it's development team inspires confidence: they took a decade just to make the alpha, then they adopted the CoC. I've got more confidence in MidnightBSD despite knowing it's majority FreeBSD cancer with one low-resourced extra layer of scrutiny.

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True, but many of the people that once had positions of authority in it still wield a lot of power in modern Russia. Those "Russian Oligarch" are just corrupt former soviets.

Here are my basic initial experiences with the new Haiku release. I've never touched Haiku before this. I tried the 64 bit image, it seemed to recognize my hardware out of the box (pretty recent laptop with some unusual components). I hear Haiku doesn't have a Nvidia driver yet, but this machine has iGPU as well, which is probably what it's using. Took a little time to start up but that may just be because I'm booting from a USB drive. First I was presented with a choice to boot to desktop or install right away, I chose boot to desktop. A bit more waiting and then I was in. Interface is rather different than what I'm used to but I've got some basics now. There's still a lot I don't understand though, it's probably in the docs.

The little icon in the top right brings up a menu/application launcher. First thing I did for some reason was check out Sudoku in the demos. It looks and feels good. All the features I expected were there. Interface is intuitive and usable, but what else can I really say, it's sudoku. Nice little diversion. Then I tried the browser, called "WebPositive", based off WebKit iirc. But first I had to set up networking for my wifi card, which was very simple to do. Literally click the icon, select network from list (card was configured oob, nice), enter password, and I'm in. The browser seems rather...basic in terms of configuration, not a lot of settings, but it does have a cookie manager. No idea what the addon situation is but it's probably not great. It does support JS and I was able to watch Youtube videos. It did crash while I was messing around with it (debugger was pretty cool though), and boy do I miss my uBlock. I guess I'll use hosts file when I do the install.

At this point I realized I had no sound. I was able to locate the relevant settings but couldn't find a quick fix. I'd heard of this issue with newer sound cards and perhaps I was unlucky. They recommend doing a warm reboot from a working OS which I might try later. It's a shame because this OS touts its media capabilities. So there's one thing that doesn't work right away. I tried a few more programs, including a nice-looking terminal, and then went on to the install. Setting up disks was kind of...all over the place. You should read carefully on this part because you have to go between several different utilities if you don't have things already set up. After some confused messing around I was able to get everything in order. Then it was kind of...abruptly done, on to the real deal...

Sound still isn't working, not that I expected it to. Everything definitely feels snappier than the live disk. I grabbed a hosts file from hpHosts to get some basic web protection going. It opens quickly in the text editor despite having 500k lines, which is nice. Web browser also handled large files reasonably well. Getting the hosts file to work ended up being really dumb though, because there was a single space after each entry, which caused it to fail at blocking. Somehow editing the file in nano made the spaces go away? And now it seems to work fine. There are probably more dumb things like this that still have to be worked out, but this was the first major annoyance (other than no sound, I guess...). Finally, I tried a warm reboot from a Xubuntu live disk, to see if the sound would work... And no dice. Sad. Guess I have to wait for a driver update. In the meantime I will get more familiar with the other aspects of the system.

A few miscellaneous notes:
* it remembered all my random settings from the live disk, when I installed the real system. Including stuff like browser history.
* desktop doesn't align to grid, which bugs my OCD. I don't see a way to enable that.
* there are nice-looking docs on the system, but it's quite long, so I didn't read much of it yet. Some docs appear to be missing/incomplete.
* some keyboard shortcuts are odd compared to what I'm used to, especially involving Ctrl/Alt. (e.g. Ctrl+Tab to cycle through windows, Alt+C to copy)
* I get a "Configuring..." notification for my wifi card often when I'm using the browser.
* I'm not sure, but browser might be missing support for remote fonts (at least some). I also don't see a way to disable JS.

In conclusion: better than I expected, but not as good as I hoped. There is a certain amount of instability, and weird behaviors that may annoy you. I am also able to make it crash reproducibly in several different areas. And if you have a newer HDA chipset, you may have issues getting it to work. However, performance is quite good (with the exception of the web browser, which can be horrible on some sites), hardware support is pretty decent, and some aspects of the system are quite impressive. I think it could be usable as a desktop OS if you have the right hardware, and are willing to deal with some BS at times. And it does seem to have a lot of the GNU utilities and such that I'm used to. But if you want it as a main driver for all your needs, you should probably wait for some further updates. If you decide to take the plunge too, expect many things to be different (at least from my experience, with Windows and Linux), and set aside some time to figure stuff out since you will probably have some problems like I did.

Have a look at privoxy. It's a filtering proxy and was pretty much the original adblock. It's browser agnostic, lightweight, has an optional web interface and supports the same block-lists most adblockers use. If you do want to go the DNS route, have a look at dnsmasq. It's a lightweight, easy to configure DNS proxy and much easier to maintain than a giant hosts file.

Hey thanks buddy, I'll check them out. (And I'm checking out those trips, too...)

Most of them are Jews who bought up the economy during Yeltsin's privatizations

This. Diversity is our strength. Linux's adoption of the Contributor Covenant was a good step in the right direction, and will create a more welcoming environment for marginalized coders. I anticipate that development of the kernel will accelerate.

Ideally, Linus would have appointed someone other than Greg KH in his absence, as Greg is still a cis white male, and may make some potential contributors feel unsafe, but one step at a time.

That't why Windows NT is actually a microkernel

Yes they are, they're all cancer. Perhaps you'd like this board better
>>>/reddit/

Whose to say the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore? It just went under Kosher cuckservitivism with Yelstin and Jewtin.

I never used BSD.

Does migrating from Linux to BSD entail the same kind of changes as a migration from Windows to Linux i.e incompatible drivers and proprietary software?

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

Don't remind me.

ITT a bunch of Zig Forumsthetic retards are in a tizzy over CoCs (they always seem to get riled up over that, hmmm?) looking for alternatively licensed kernals. But sadly they are *still* shit human beings and can't be bothered to do the very fucking basic, nor can they lift a finger to take control of their hardware themselves through programming.

Their tragedy is always self-sabotage and endless shitposting instead of contributing or making. Thus the cancer that killed /b/ finally dies itself with zero fanfare.

The Linux drivers work on Linux only. The BSD kernels have their own drivers. If your hardware doesn't work on one BSD, try another and it might work there. NetBSD has the most hardwarwe support overall.
For other stuff, there's binary emualation anad Wine. OpenBSD doesn't have either, because it oesn't fit their security model. But I think all the other ones do. So you can run Linux program on NetBSD, if you install all the libraries and other dependencies it needs. See here:
netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/chap-linux.html

Wow, I wish I had the sapience to be a grand arbiter like yourself.

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DragonFly BSD has the best performance, but if you have old computer with a single-core processor and/or about

NT is a Hybrid. They tried to make it a microkernel, but it didn't pan out.

Seriuous question, which kernel is the latest without CoC?
Is it 4.18.XYZ?
My plan is to use the last non-coc available while start transitioning to NetBSD

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What about RISC OS?

nu/tech/ where Zig Forumstards think CoCs are like licenses.

The CoC can be used to ruin your life, if you participate in the community in some way. That's why I run TempleOS. TempleOS is not run by some little faggot """""Girls""""". TempleOS is powered by DIVINE INTELLECT, not some pozzed ideology.

The divine TempleOS prophet was martyred by an unholy locomotive

Look at this thread now.

These same cunts have been raiding this place for weeks, the posts have exactly the same format, every time.

Atleast the "EVERYTHING IS LOST" guy hasn't showed up yet.

Early 2017 Zig Forums was the end of the golden era, the autists hadn't found this place yet.

If the Russian government would sponsor the development the project might actually get adoption. From technical standpoint what they are doing makes no sense, but from getting desktop usage adoption standpoint it does.

OP here. Through the last two threads I've been able to put together a list of 17 potentially viable alternatives, while leaving out those too eager to go proprietary (AEROS, MorphOS), or those more suited to memes/servers (Shrine and a couple of variants of Illumos), or those in development hell (GNU/Hurd). This is good. There aren't as many as I'd hoped, but this is acceptable. If the shills were that bad that I couldn't even put the list together then I'd have been upset. But the idea of having a thread with somehow more "shill immunity" than another is not only unappealing, it's down right malice to demand it. Speech is closed down whenever you go down that avenue. We saw it originally in the gamergate revolts, thread after thread purged with the justification of "shills". If moderation were that heavy-handed again then I'd have had to have built my list on my own without communal help. Which would be bad because I hadn't even heard of over half the stuff I've had my eyes opened to. Until shills make the work impossible I'm not prepared to complain about them. Just filter the capslock redtexters and get on with the job.

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A Hybrid kernel pretty much is a microkernel that's configured at build-time so its more rigid like a monolithic kernel

I think it's for the ARM architecture only.

It depends.
Most BSDs have a Linux compatibility layer, except OpenBSD so it's best to try and go native for portability
Lucky for you, almost all open source code is portable, has already been ported, or is fairly easy to port to BSD.
As for proprietary (read uncompilable) software, unless you luck out and the compat layer supports it well, if you even have it, you're out of luck.
Rough for a lot of vidya

THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE

Coc and systemd happened with linux because linux became really big, the moment your alternative become to be really used, some systemd, COC or whaterver will appear at your os.

There is no way to escape this. If you think you can escape this mess, you dont know how the world works.

FINALLY SONEONE WHO ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS
People like you and I who actually understand the world fucking shit in the face of obvious hopecuck propraganda threads like this for promoting the fucking cucked impossible fantasy of Linux alternatives. It's fucking over for us. The kikes won and there will NEVER be an escape from their grasp. Blackpillfag was fucking right the entire time.

See
Delete your shitty thread NOW

here
my non windows, os is true-os.
I never went to linux.

Anyway changing to something else today IS an alternative (unlike says and others like him says), like going from windows to linux was an alternative, the problem is that at the future you will need to jump to another alternative, like you are doing now, and you will have to keep your eyes open with your linux alternative to see when the "systemd", "coc" or whateaver is start to be implemented at the os, so you can be sure you are not affected by it without even knowing you are being affected by it and also you can have extra time to prepare yourself to jump from the new sinking ship.

So much fucking this. Don't fucking bother trying to escape you fucking faggots, you're staying in this hell and you're gonna like it.

You're late. Did the third-world shit hole SV and the alphabet agencies outsource their shilling to have a holiday or something?

congratulation for proving my point

The point is this:

I am using trueos, I already started with BSD since few years ago instead of jumping from windows to linux.

The fact that you have "urr durr just keep using linux or windows" 'shills', or you have someone complaining everytime you say you will use one from the 6-8 inits that arent systemd ""someone"" call you a "tinfoil hat" and the way they handled systemd story is one of the things that made me see this

As I said here

I am not saying you need to keep using linux, that would be stupid. That would be equivalent of drinking a soda with poison because you know the moment another soda company get famous they will be brought and they will put poison at it.

What I am saying is that "coc" and systemd and etc.. is like galactus eating your planet, you can move to another planet (the right thing to do), but dont expect galactus to dont go after your planet at the future, galactus will try to eat your planet at the future and you will need to change to the third planet and then the fourth and this goes on.... and on....

A question that maybe someone here can answer: I've been reading the GNU/Hurd project page and trying to find some articles of it as well and while there is some nice info a lot of pages talk about changing the kernel, be it to a more BSD based approach or using seL4 because it does away with some flaws of the old Mach concept. Yet I can't find any information on what route the devs have decided to go down.

BTRFS masterrace!

Hey, this is kinda interesting. I always ignored it because "Haiku" sounds like something I'd confuse with "Elementary OS"

Looks like it works fine on the low-end Pi boards. Maybe you can convince someone to just give you theirs that's just sitting in a drawer. Or give them like $5 for it.
riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi

It already happened though. Matt Dillon forked from FreeBSD, and Theo forked from NetBSD. And it's a lot easier to do with a small codebase. If NetBSD got a CoCk, it's guaranteed there would be a viable fork within the week.

Why bother with anything other than OpenBSD? There's nothing better in terms of security and software availability in all of these alternative OSes.

Because you might need 3D acceleration, or care about performance, or efficiency, or practical/certifiable rather than conceptual security. I love OpenBSD as a toy, but there is no way I could use it as a daily driver or on a production system.

Is it that bad for 3d?

No Nvidia support (which is the same as no 3D support if you care about performance or energy efficiency) and their X implementation strongly favors conceptual security over performance.

So if you're criminally inclined, that's a great OS otherwise unless you plan on coding a doom clone, you're boned, right?

Doom worked fine on my 486 running DOS and 4 megs RAM. Doom II needed 8 megs to run smoothly on some of the bigger maps (especially The Living End got choppy when I only had 4 megs). Descent, Heretic, and Hexen also worked flawlessly. Strife would have also, but I didn't know about it back then.
Quake 1 ran fine on my p120 in software mode, and not just at the lowest resolution either. I don't remember exactly which vid_mode I favored at the time, but it was somewhere right in the middle of 320x240 and 640x480.
The games that followed later sucked ass anyway, despite using that OpenGL shit. And I didn't play Duke3D back then, but apparently it ran fine on a 486DX2/66 with 16 megs RAM.
If all you care about is eye candy, then you need 3D accel. If you care about the gameplay and level design, you don't fucking need any of that lame shit. Especially given how fucking fast CPUs and memory are today compared to 1996. But even back then you could run Quake 1 playable at 1024x768 on a DEC ALpha 21164, if you happened to have one handy.

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It's a great hacker OS. Nothing beats OpenBSD if you want a system that makes sense, were you can understand every single part of it, that runs on modern hardware and supports modern software and concepts. It's just not very efficient.

Or, if you care about visualization and simulation. Computer graphics are not just about games and desktop toys.

2.5D/Raycasting eye candy really needs 3D acceleration?

Is it good for running multiple VMs and doing reverse engineering?

It's borderline hostile towards virtualization, for security reasons. I have to guess on reverse engineering, but I would bet that the best software analysis tools are commercial and exclusive to Windows and Linux.

No, but schmucks like Graf Zahl and his minions say it does, or else you're "stuck in the past". Meanwhile his bloated ass port needs more resources than that DEC Alpha workstation to run properly.

True. But you have to find a middle path if you want hardware support. But yeah, an insider tip shouldn't become too big either. Still, I like those threads.

Radare2 seems to work fine on OpenBSD, but really, if I want to reverse engineer malware and various other stuff I should stay on Linux?

If he wants to do 3D graphics then he's not wrong.

I can't tell you what you should do, but you might as well give OpenBSD a try if you have the time and the desire. I had enough fun to fall in love with it, and keep using it for fun, even though it did not work out for me as a new workhorse.

I'll do it then.

It's not 3D. It's a 2.5D engine with tons of piecemeal hacks on top to make it kinda 3D, except it still uses sprites and textures made for the old DOS engine. So then they end up trying to make new ones with 3D models but their shit looks like crap compared to plain old DOS Doom. These idiots think if they keep increaing resolution and adding more bling it makes things better, but all it does is make their flaws more apparent. Also, then they have to start designing levels with tons of details all over the fucking place, because otherwise it looks empty and much too clean and with too many straight lines. The irony is the old low res software engine smoothed things out and added its own irregularities for free. These fucking idiots have been doing this GZDoom shit for 20 years and haven't figured this out yet.