Vim

Beat me to it. From Geoff's patch submission, you can see how stupid some of the Vim developers are, too.
groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/vim_dev/-4pqDJfHCsM/LkYNCpZjQ70J

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All the shit to do with extensions and scripting is trying to turn it into emacs, while lacking (by initial design) any foundation in such usage. So we're heading into a situation where emacs' evil-mode is becoming a better "vi" than Vim is.

Muh Ugandan nigglets.

Vim is one of the rare sane choices. Like everything, it has its bad sides, but it's far better than today's (((Electron))) editors, like (((M$ Visual $tudio Kode))) for example. If you really mind Vim's downsides, you can go with some of others like Emacs, Ed, Nano. If you are such a soyboy to use (((GUI))) exclusively, the only I can recommend without losing my dignity as a non-NPC is Sublime.

that's actually already the case. I use vim in some niche cases still, but evil-mode is unquestionably a better vi.

Next time, can you type like a human, instead of a markov chain? Thanks

Chords > Modal when you must always switch mode for advanced movement (words, lines, paragraphs).

vimscript is ass.
I've used vim for a good long time. Then I started picking up Scheme (Guile and Chez) so I switched to Emacs for that. It is so much better to configure. Now I use it for most programming I do.
I still use vim for tiny edits or CLI stuff but I should probably train fingers to type nano instead of vim for that.
I still haven't tried evil mode because I'm afraid of how much I'll like it.

I do not hate it, but I prefer GNU Emacs because I can easily extend it.

Typescript support and in general autocomplete and syntax checking is either cumbersome to setup, slow, fails too often, or all of them. I would be using Vim were not for these problems.
I use VSCode.

your a idiot

You're going to have to explain what you think is better for small text edits and why using nano is idiotic.

Vim's problem is that it didn't actually live up to its name. It didn't "improve" vi outside of the most basic conception of an "improvement." About the only thing it has over vi is text objects, but that's not really worth all the extra problems that it causes.

...

What extra problems?

You can't use it to edit files on remote machines.

What part of "small text edits" did you not comprehend?
What part of "small text edits" requires loading up a whole fully featured editor?
What part of "I've used vim for a good long time" did you not comprehend?
The critical thinking on this board is lacking.

Improve your writing skills duder.

So much bait!

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if you've used vim for any length of time, there's no reason to use nano at all.

I_have_autism.txt

Fingers are getting used to emacs movements and non-modal editing.

I've been trying to use Vim for awhile now, but I cannot find any way to jump to a C/C++ function definition which is found in some arbitrary library outside of my project. The only solution I can find would be to create ctags for literally every library on my machine, which sounds incredibly stupid. Is this really the state of Vim or is there a better way to do this? I'm porting some software from library X to library Y where neither library has appropriate documentation, so I have to jump to read the source of both of them as I work.

If what you want is something like Visual Studio's behavior, keep in mind that it uses project files which hold (or link to) equivalent information. It can abstract some details because it can afford to make a large number of assumptions where an environment-agnostic text editor can't.

The first problem you'll face is trying to figure out where your libraries live. VS has a project variable for that. Makefiles, for example, don't. Making heuristic assumptions will yield more bad than good. Even assuming that such a problems were trivial to solve, you'd then end up having to re-implement a ctag-like indexing system as a plugin for your text editor. Well, you don't *have* to, but if you don't care about indexing then ack/ag are already available.

How is it that a plugin like syntastic is able to determine whether or not I have a syntax error without building this database of information? Presumably, if I use a particular function, it must know which header file that function is defined in to be able to determine the proper syntax and compare to what I have in my code. It seems like whatever functionality is being leveraged for syntastic should also be able to be leveraged to jump to the function declarations.

It's flat out terrible for generic, low volume text viewing and editing, and it's terrible for coding as any non-IDE solution is.
When notepad is a better tool you really need to pause and think about what went wrong.

Comparing Vim with others is pure autism.
First of all, it's released in 1991. 17 years before Sublime text.
Secondary I think the usage areas are different. I'm using Vim if a little error occurs while running my script on a terminal. I'm fastly fixing the problem with it. But using it for your serious projects is stupid.

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Never used it but I assume it just looks at whatever files you have or had opened and builds a declaration/definition/assignment/reference database in your RAM or in your .vim. Maybe it looks through "usual suspect" library directories. There would also have to be some ugly "good enough" magic happening behind the scenes that have likely led developers on wild goose chases, e.g. it read the right file from the wrong lib version and gave someone a real head scratcher as they ended up looking at filter_next instead of filter_prev because between the two lib versions, lines were added or removed before these code blocks, offsetting the line numbers.

Obviously, jumping to and from entities within a single file isn't subject to these issues. The lexer built for the syntax highlighter not recording and remembering them is more of legacy issue as well as plugins or even just string searches already doing the same thing. See

However,
is stupid

It doesn't take commands from stdin like ed does

It is aware of files I have never opened which are part of system installed libraries that I have never touched with a text editor.

All libraries are installed in a standard location. Headers can be found in /usr/include which I'm sure is passed around in some environment variable. I'm sure any sensible plugin would leverage that.

It seems clear to me now that Vim is not meant for serious development work. Guess I'll just stick to using an IDE.

nvim is better.

This guy has never used vim before.

lmfao back to your IDE pleb

You don't need to tell me twice. I'd way rather use something that works and has basic functionality that has been around for decades compared to your toy editor. Have fun working on your hello world program, user.

Vim is a terrible hack. It's a gigantic monster that implements its own (terrible) scripting language; and the defaults suck so people use the broken plug-in system. It has more legacy code than OpenSSL, is designed for QWERTY, and is used by ricer glitterboys who love to extol superficial minimalism (because if it has a TUI, it must be minimal, right?) -- Vim is thousands and thousands lines of C with API bindings for every other programming language. Vim is hard to extend and improve, so users resort to limited hacks with its language bindings. Vim is the definition of crappy software. A bunch of amateurs on github are trying to clean it up, but it is a monolithic hack by design. The so-called "superiority" of model editing is also patently false, because:

a) It is designed around the worst keyboard layout

b) If you're really in love with modal editing, you can emulate it using Emacs.

The editor part of Emacs is temacs - which is just a few hundred lines of C. Everything else is elisp. What do I recommend? ed, mg, even nano. Barring those, use Emacs. When you start Emacs, the extensions (written in elisp, much better than vimscript) are loaded into temacs, and then the core is dumped as the Emacs executable. The binary size of Vim used to be much smaller, which was something Vim users loved to bring up, but now they're getting close -- proving that Vim is just hacks upon hacks.

Do you know how much trouble people are having trying to make Neovim good? A lot, because the Vim codebase is dogsoykaf*

*geoff.greer.fm/2015/01/15/why-neovim-is-better-than-vim/
*geoff.greer.fm/vim/#realwaitforchar

The people who use Vim _love_ superficially "minimal" software (i.e. software that appears minimal but has a terrible codebase). Software like i3, cmus, and urxvt. How many people use the Vim defaults? Almost none, that's how many. Emacs is (relatively) modular unlike Vim (It does have a lot of legacy cruft, not going to deny that; Stallman holds the project back). Emacs is a Lisp engine/interpreter with an editor-like interface. Parts of the buffer can be interpreted as Lisp, the session is a dynamic Lisp runtime, Lisp is its configuration language. Vim is all the code bloat of Emacs with the magic of ifdef hell, and people use tons of plug-ins/thousand line .vimrc config files making it even more adipose, because the defaults are egregious.

You forgot to mention 'out of the box' and then run your fingers through your wispy combover to add further emphasis.

Because it's impossible to use. I prefer something really easy to use like emacs, even though it's bloated.
Also it can make you sound like you're programming to your colleagues while you're really playing tetris.

qwerty's fine. You think you benefit from alternative layouts because you grew up on qwerty and then only learned to type properly with those layouts. t. someone who had to re-learn qwerty years after completely overwriting his muscle memory with proper dvorak.
modal editing is fine. Yes, Emacs does it very well with evil-mode. Remember to add melpa to your package managers and immediately install evil-mode, kids. You don't need to go full spacemacs.
what's stopping them from liking software that's actually minimal, like dwm, sic, and st?
... oh? nothing? the impulse that draws one to the mirage also draws one to the oasis?
people mostly deal with vim's problems by not improving it. on servers, for editing random files, it still beats utterly worthless programs for idiots like nano, or utterly worthless recommendations by idiots like mg and ed. And it's still more minimal than Emacs.
I have :set ts=4 sts=4 et sw=4 in muscle memory. That and variations on that is enough for vim as a server editor. neovim would be fine too, but most other vi-likes are just buggy or less pleasant, and non-vi editors mostly aren't even worth speaking of: an editor just can't be any good without having keybindings you have to learn, be they original or a copy of vi or emacs.

decent vi-likes that aren't vim:
vile (but its handling of long lines is painful)
vis (maybe)

Because ed.
Ed is the standard text editor.
Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!

When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!! Not a “viitor”. Not a “emacsitor”. Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!

go home Ed, you're drunk

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Everything about Vim is, in fact, bad.
Nice projection?
The fact that those are unusable garbage; dmenu is their only worthwhile project.
200 hours learning Vim for a 2% advantage over a nano user.

I've never understood why people keep recommending Sublime on forums/boards like this?
Proprietary, Python, nagware.. I'm not personally a fan of those things. Admittedly I've never used it but honestly it seems to espouse things I only put up with in gaymz.
Is it really worth that much though? Maybe it is and I just don't know but why when Emacs is free in multiple meanings of the word.

Uh oh. Watch out saying that here. People might get upset.

Does Nano even support go to definition or autocompletion?

Ok, mister contrarian. What WM and terminal emulator do YOU recommend?

vimtutor.
time it.
you can go on to learn one new vim feature at a rate of once per year and still benefit. meanwhile even the most basic file navigation is painful in nano
it beats having nothing at all to go on
dwm and st? maybe if you can't figure out how to read their manpages. sic is fine enough as a starter kit for your own IRC client.
get your tabs from tmux.

Nothing good is made in rust.

tor

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ohh look a vis fag, maybe you can answer my question
is there any way to disable it's windowing system currently ?
last time I checked there wasn't

t. tmux+vi 4 life looking to migrate

Switch to nvim and use :terminal, it is way better than :term. Also I use tmux+nvim and frequently use terminal buffers due to how easy it is to search through them.

why do you need to disable vis's windowing system to use tmux?
do you mean that you want vis to interface with tmux in some way, instead of being like all the other dumb terminal programs that tmux manages?

do you mean the split windows? because you can just not use that, although i don't know why you would.

i suppose you could go into the code and remove that yourself and just recompile, but there's really no point in doing that unless you know what you're doing

I don't want to use nvim because there's no fucking way I can compile without uneeded garbage (personal opinion).
Vim had tiny and you could go even lower than that but from what I know neovim doesn't have that.
And I was talking about vi not vim.From what I can see both neovim and vim now have terminals ? what in the name of fuck

no,for example in vim from what I remember if you :open another file it opens another buffer and focuses on it; when I tried vis it just split into another window showing both windows.
I just want one buffer, one window, one tab, minimal vi like editor which won't have/do something I don't like. I'm at the point where I'd rather write my own editor.

too tiresome for an editor I practically know nothing about

What in tor requires rust?
I just did a quick emerge --pretend and doesn't pull in rust at all.
If it does use rust, then it's not for key functionality.

They're in a process of migrating the project to Rust piece by piece.

That doesn't mean it's good at all, it just means they're confirmed pozzed and stupid.

three years in the making, and already 4k lines of code! This must be the most successful RIIR endeavor yet.

no programs manual should be larger than the source code.

Have you checked out nvi? It's just the Berkley version of the original vi. I'm a vis guy myself, so I don't know much about it. But providing you don't care about all the new features vis offers, then I'd consider giving that a look.

It's what I'm using.

Why comrade?

Are they good for a daily use?

i3 is heavier than Window Maker and FVWM.

I's hard to use and I can't close it. I always remove it and then make symlink to nano.

It's a shame, deoplete is probably the best completion engine available right now. It just works and works better than basically any other completion engine I have used before.

...

please expand on this if you have time
I feel like using autocompletion makes me too dependent on it.

I've had some problems with deoplete, it's just plain froze my vim before. It also spews errors I don't care to look at or fix with some of the completion engines too python

ITT reading comprehension is below 0

Sorry, which time do you mean. Next time or next time? previous time? Is there a Previous time?
When will then be now?

meant to quote

I don't hate it, I just personally dislike it and prefer Emacs
Its mode based editing thing just doesn't jive with me, you know?

I don't use it. I think Gnu Emacs is better. Because Gnu Emacs has better docs, better extensions and better customizability. You can emulate the (((uganda editor))) in Gnu Emacs, if you really want to.

What about textadept+textredux?
rgieseke.github.io/textredux/index.html

The codebase is shit and it shows in how fucking slow it is compared to something like vis, Vim (the software) is shit, Vim (the editing style) is good.

Daily remainder.
The holy editor war was between Emacs and vi, not vim.
Vi is UNIX way. Emacs is Lisp way.
The keybindings were irrelevant.

If you want a minimalist vi-like editor, use nvi or vi itself.
If you want a customizable development environment use Emacs, it completely implements vi.

For those retards who still use Vim.
Why haven't you yet donated some money to Bram with his AIDS treatment?

s/to Bram/to help Bram/

And they are both shit.
ed was given to us by Ken Thomson and Dennis Ritchie themselves.

ed is the standard Unix text editor.

Ed is for those who can remember what they are working on. If you are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

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Is there any reason to use this over vscode since its an electron abortion as well?

I wonder how soon an editor with this many pop-ups, hints, tips and completion suggestion will cause retardation.
It also looks gay as fuck, probably could give you AIDS as well.

tldr: You start typing and things pop up asyncronously. I primarily use it for go as it is smart enough to detect everything in the standard go library, also works on files, things in other buffers, tmux panes, and basically anything you can imagine.

I don't think I've ever seen it freeze with nvim. Maybe you are thinking of another completion engine like YCM or VimCompletesMe.

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How this 20 line long pop-up is even helpful?
What a nigger would put a struct or a static inside a main function?

It's not a good example. Best case is if you have a class and you don't want to open the class's declaration in another buffer or constantly Ctrl+] to see the definition of things.

Hmm, any of you using Shougo's dein.vim then?

Yes I use dein as well but I am not fond of it, I feel like there are other plugin managers that work better are are less likely to randomly break.

There is literally nothing wrong with Vundle